15:56:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swd
15:56:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-irc
15:56:48 <Ralph> rrsagent, please make record public
15:56:51 <Ralph> zakim, this will be swd
15:56:51 <Zakim> ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
16:00:37 <Ralph> Meeting: Semantic Web Deployment WG
16:00:47 <Ralph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0001.html
16:01:14 <seanb> seanb has joined #swd
16:01:24 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2008/12/16-swd-minutes.html previous 2008-12-16
16:01:41 <Zakim> SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started
16:01:49 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber
16:02:30 <Guus> Guus has joined #swd
16:02:31 <Zakim> +Ralph
16:03:05 <Zakim> +??P48
16:03:13 <berrueta> zakim, ??P48 is me
16:03:14 <Zakim> +berrueta; got it
16:03:49 <Zakim> +??P65
16:03:57 <seanb> zakim, ??P65 is me
16:03:57 <Zakim> +seanb; got it
16:04:15 <edsu> edsu has joined #swd
16:05:12 <Antoine> Antoine has joined #swd
16:05:45 <aliman> aliman has joined #swd
16:05:56 <edsu> happy new year :)
16:06:37 <Zakim> +[LC]
16:06:38 <Zakim> +Antoine_Isaac
16:06:51 <edsu> Zakim, LC is me
16:06:51 <Zakim> +edsu; got it
16:07:13 <Zakim> +??P73
16:08:10 <Ralph> zakim, ??p73 is Daniel
16:08:10 <Zakim> +Daniel; got it
16:08:12 <seanb> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Dec/0080.html
16:08:26 <seanb> email with at risk feature discussion
16:08:26 <Zakim> + +0786654aaaa
16:09:06 <Ralph> +Alistair
16:09:28 <Ralph> [aaaa was Alistair]
16:09:43 <aliman> q+ to mention simon jupp's skos plugin for protege
16:10:29 <Ralph> Daniel: suggest getting SKOS into OWL and submitting this to BioPortal
16:11:26 <Antoine>  http://code.google.com/p/skoseditor/
16:12:28 <aliman> q-
16:12:46 <aliman> scribenick: aliman
16:13:27 <aliman> guus: welcome, happy new year 
16:13:39 <aliman> TOPIC: ADMIN
16:14:02 <aliman> PROPOSED: to accept minutes of the last telecon http://www.w3.org/2008/12/16-swd-minutes.html
16:14:17 <aliman> RESOLVED: to accept minutes of the last telecon http://www.w3.org/2008/12/16-swd-minutes.html 
16:14:33 <aliman> guus: SKOS Reference, tom wrote the transition request, ...
16:14:51 <aliman> ralph: did you want to send request?
16:15:09 <Zakim> -Daniel
16:15:29 <aliman> guus: you can send it. the version tom made is fine. ??? substantive change, but agreed now.
16:15:40 <aliman> sean: text available? can we see it?
16:15:59 <aliman> ACTION: ralph send CR transition request for SKOS
16:16:52 <aliman> ralph: once sent, I can cite it. will contain proposed status of language. but not necessarily final version of status, you can suggest changes. it'll take a few days for the director decision, then should be ready to publish shortly after. so we have a few days before we need to produce final doc.
16:17:08 <aliman> ACTION: chairs to write the CR transition request [recorded 
16:17:10 <aliman> inhttp://www.w3.org/2008/12/16-swd-minutes.html#action11]
16:17:13 <aliman> --done
16:17:41 <aliman> guus: apart from this adminstrative issue, we can proceed
16:17:54 <aliman> ACTION: Ralph to report on use of RDFa metadata in Recommendations. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action02]
16:17:57 <aliman> --done
16:18:02 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0008.html "status of RDFa in W3C Recommendations" [Ralph 2009-01-06]
16:18:45 <aliman> ralph: answer is, not yet for recommendation. we haven't published enough CR docs or WDs with RDFa in them to be sure of no browser problems; so not yet ready to go ahead with RDFa in final recommendations.
16:19:06 <aliman> sean: "rationale for not exluding" should be "rationale for excluding"?
16:19:09 <aliman> ralph: yes
16:19:24 <aliman> guus: charter extension proposal...
16:19:31 <aliman> did steve contact you ralph?
16:19:49 <aliman> ralph: maybe, i sent charter extension request yesterday. i expect a decision tomorrow.
16:20:04 <aliman> TOPIC: SKOS Primer
16:20:15 <aliman> guus: review from Tom, marked as done in agenda.
16:20:20 <aliman> ...followup discussion.
16:20:40 <aliman> antoine: extensive comments from tom, impressive work. mostly editorial, about enhancing the vocabulary use and flow of document.
16:20:54 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0000.html "[SKOS] Comments on SKOS Primer" [Tom, 2009-01-05]
16:20:58 <aliman> ...many of these comments and call for changes already implemented, because tom was editing as he was writing the review.
16:21:17 <aliman> ...still many comments remaining. I've started to address them, subject of emails i wrote today.
16:21:33 <aliman> ...i'm ready to implement changes from tom as soon as feedback from tom.
16:22:00 <aliman> ...question is actually whether request from WG to publish new WD asap, compatible with tom not here. he planned to go somewhere beginning of jan?
16:22:10 <aliman> guus: just today, tom is not available
16:22:44 <aliman> ...wrt publication, once CR request is approved, we have to send out call for implementations. it would be wise to have link to updated primer in that call. ideally we'd like to have updated primer in a week.
16:22:59 <aliman> antoine: if tom can read mail, it will be ok. all change can be dealt with in <1 day.
16:23:11 <aliman> ralph: would group prefer to hold CR on reference until primer is updated?
16:23:25 <aliman> ...it could take up to a week to get CR approval.
16:23:49 <aliman> ...there will be a homepage item about the CR, so would be nice to also have link to primer.
16:23:58 <aliman> ...if only matter of 3 days, prefer to publish together.
16:24:20 <aliman> guus: middle of next week then. if you (antoine) are mainly incorporating tom's comments, tom would agree to publish.
16:24:44 <aliman> antoine: i will implement everything still pending, prepare a draft, then will have something ready which implements every point discussed.
16:25:09 <aliman> ACTION: antoine to prepare revised draft of SKOS Primer ready for decision to publish as WD
16:25:18 <aliman> ralph: hold SKOS Reference until 13/14?
16:25:29 <aliman> guus: yes, maybe publish 14/15
16:25:38 <aliman> ...mainly editorial, discuss comments here?
16:26:09 <aliman> antoine: something about advertisement and lightweight things ... comment from tom about acknowledgements. .. include?
16:26:17 <aliman> guus: yes, like to include, it's proper.
16:26:40 <aliman> antoine: status, preamble, needs to be updated. i deal with that with ralph before next week?
16:27:33 <aliman> ralph: let's work offline on that; my preference is that the editors' draft status reflects status of editors' draft; when i make copy to be WD then I update the status for WD, so we need another place to work on it.
16:28:00 <aliman> antoine: slight problem with primer, styles from w3c, copy-paste from alistair, last WD you changed some formatting went away
16:28:12 <aliman> ralph: there wouldn't have been a problem, I deleted too much
16:28:18 <aliman> guus: let's leave it at this
16:28:29 <aliman> TOPIC: RDFa
16:28:34 <aliman> guus: nothing to report
16:28:38 <aliman> TOPIC: Recipes
16:28:51 <aliman> ACTION: Ralph to review the revised Recipes draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-swd-minutes.html#action15]
16:28:54 <aliman> --continues
16:29:10 <aliman> ACTION: Ben review RDFa Use Cases and propose transition to Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-minutes.html#action02]
16:29:13 <aliman> --continues
16:29:42 <GuusS> GuusS has joined #swd
16:30:02 <aliman> ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20]
16:30:08 <aliman> --continues
16:30:35 <aliman> ACTION: Ralph post his comments on the editor's draft of the metadata note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action03]
16:30:38 <aliman> --continues
16:31:01 <aliman> guus: aldo has done similar RDF representation of wordnet for 3.0 version, would like to publish in similar way, but that can wait
16:31:11 <aliman> TOPIC: AOB
16:31:16 <aliman> guus: review of OWL documents
16:31:36 <aliman> ...some progress at VU, meeting, initiated by Frank V-H
16:31:44 <aliman> ...we'll come up with a draft response
16:31:58 <aliman> ...still informal, we feel OWL 2 extensions are fine, most of them
16:32:20 <aliman> ...main problem is with presentation of material, in particular lack of use of RDF representations, either N-Triple or RDF/XML
16:32:28 <aliman> ...so people from SKOS perspective find it hard to grasp
16:32:51 <aliman> ...second problem is obscure use of OWL, sometimes OWL Full variant completely under table, but that is relevant for SKOS users
16:32:56 <aliman> ...so our comments in that direction
16:33:16 <aliman> ...may be a substantial comment, at moment not sure what SKOS user, how can look fruitfully at OWL doc
16:33:27 <aliman> ...hopefully we have more in 2-3 weeks, deadline is 23 Jan
16:33:35 <aliman> TOPIC: SKOS (implementation report)
16:34:05 <aliman> guus: report consist of two types of implementations, 1 is at least two tools that can handle SKOS, editors or "checkers"
16:34:13 <aliman> ...sean, you didn't like "validation"?
16:34:18 <aliman> sean: yes, prefer "checker"
16:34:44 <aliman> guus: 2 is vocabularies using SKOS, at least two vocabularies that use a construct in our reference
16:35:01 <aliman> ...this will be a data gathering excercise
16:35:07 <aliman> ...let's start with tools.
16:35:17 <aliman> ...sean you discussed protege version for skos?
16:35:31 <Antoine> http://code.google.com/p/skoseditor/
16:35:42 <aliman> sean: yes, tool called skosed which is a plugin for protege 4, this is for editing skos vocabularies, so we can certainly claim that as an implementation
16:35:53 <aliman> guus: a second implementation? work by laurens?
16:36:41 <aliman> antoine: web service that serves SKOS data, basically wrapping up a set of functions dedicated to SKOS model, on top of RDF repository, could be evolution of SKOS API by alistair and [niki and dave] 
16:36:57 <aliman> ...also browser implemented in CHOICE project, helps navigating vocabularies
16:37:03 <edsu> q+ to mention Synaptica
16:37:05 <aliman> q+ to mention metadata registry
16:37:33 <edsu> -> http://synapticacentral.com/content/our-commitment-data-exchange-standards
16:37:50 <aliman> edsu: I had a meeting with people in federal agencies in washington, they used a tool called synaptica, from dow jones, several agencies using it to manage controlled vocabularies, then outputting as SKOS
16:38:10 <aliman> guus: it would be nice if we have data about these tools on the list
16:38:27 <aliman> edsu: they gave me documentation for it at the beginning of the meeting, then took it away at end of meeting
16:39:18 <aliman> alistair: jon phipps would want us to consider nsdl metadata registry as an implementation
16:39:24 <edsu> +1 to that
16:39:25 <aliman> guus: yes, see jon's message
16:39:40 <Antoine> http://www.mondeca.com/index.php/en/intelligent_topic_manager
16:40:19 <aliman> edsu: the oclc terminology services, which guy at dublin core conference told about, they have service which outputs SKOS as a format, also does zthes
16:40:29 <aliman> antoine: diane vizine-goetz
16:40:38 <aliman> edsu: it's on the web too
16:40:49 <Antoine> http://www.oclc.org/research/projects/termservices/
16:41:26 <aliman> guus: for implementation report, we have to define a format to describe these implementations; report consists of a number of tables
16:41:51 <aliman> ...tool from simon jupp, state we can take a look at?
16:42:01 <aliman> sean: only protege 4
16:42:08 <aliman> antoine: link in irc 5 mins ago
16:42:20 <aliman> ...it's really cool, i'm now using it
16:42:41 <aliman> alistair: did issue get fixed with uris?
16:43:08 <Ralph> Sean: do I have to regenerate the DL schema?
16:43:10 <Ralph> Alistair: yes
16:43:40 <aliman> guus: one of us needs to take one of tools, then list features we'd like to describe in implementation report
16:43:54 <aliman> ...anybody willling to think about this?
16:44:09 <aliman> sean: i can look at tool we have here
16:44:23 <aliman> guus: if you can bootstrap this, then others can describe their tool in a similar way?
16:44:32 <aliman> sean: another example from another spec we can look at?
16:44:41 <aliman> guus: rdfa implementation report, owl implementation report...
16:45:09 <aliman> ...second kind of implementatino we can think of is vocabularies using SKOS, describing features of SKOS they use 
16:45:19 <aliman> ...I can ask someone in my group to bootstrap this
16:45:38 <aliman> ACTION: guus to report on usage of SKOS in vocabularies at VU
16:45:56 <aliman> guus: will be simple, URI of scheme ... list of features (SKOS constructs) being used
16:46:28 <aliman> ...nice if by end of month have some first data. Will have call for implementations as well, so people can contribute.
16:46:49 <aliman> guus: at some point, need to do web search for all skos vocabs out there
16:47:06 <aliman> ACTION: sean to report on SKOSED for SKOS implementation report
16:47:27 <aliman> s/at VU/at VU for SKOS implementation report/
16:47:36 <aliman> guus: ralph, ok to use vocabularies as implementation exampel?
16:47:41 <aliman> ralph: yes
16:47:51 <aliman> guus: if you come across SKOS vocabularies, post to the list
16:47:52 <Antoine> http://www.mondeca.com/index.php/en/intelligent_topic_manager/applications/itm_t3_terminology_thesaurus_taxonomy_metadata_dictionary
16:48:02 <Ralph> [anything that uses SKOS is legitimately an "implementation" in my book :) ]
16:48:05 <aliman> antoine: link from french company, doing stuff with skos
16:48:31 <aliman> ...description of terminology management tool, bernard vatant's company, description of what they do, useful
16:48:38 <aliman> guus: certainly, worth looking at
16:48:42 <Ralph> [or, if not an implementation, at least appropriate to mention in a report of implementations]
16:49:02 <aliman> guus: ok, start looking for either tools or vocabularies that use SKOS
16:49:06 <aliman> ...any other issues?
16:49:26 <aliman> ...we are extended until 1may?
16:49:32 <aliman> ralph: yes, request to 31 april
16:49:50 <aliman> sean: comment about status of doc, require us to change current editors' draft?
16:50:59 <aliman> ralph: no, i'll send you mail. i like for status of every doc we're working on to reflect status of that document. one trick we could use, editors' draft, section which has proposed status for CR; but don't like editors' draft to say in status that they are CR
16:51:14 <aliman> ...this time, few extra words, run by sean and alistair
16:51:27 <aliman> guus: noting we now finish on 31 april, we are ready to adjourn
16:51:49 <aliman> ...assume next week we have telecon to report progress on implementation report issues and resolve on primer draft
16:51:54 <aliman> sean: regrets for next tuesday
16:52:01 <Ralph> [I'm not expecting a problem with our request for a 4-month extension, but note that it hasn't actually been granted as of this moment]
16:52:09 <aliman> guus: useful to meet to at least agree on primer
16:52:23 <aliman> ...next meeting is next week.
16:52:25 <Zakim> -Guus_Schreiber
16:52:26 <Zakim> -edsu
16:52:26 <Zakim> -berrueta
16:52:27 <Zakim> -seanb
16:52:27 <Zakim> -Antoine_Isaac
16:52:29 <aliman> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:52:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html aliman
16:52:42 <Zakim> -Ralph
16:52:49 <Zakim> -aliman
16:52:50 <Zakim> SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
16:52:52 <Zakim> Attendees were Guus_Schreiber, Ralph, berrueta, seanb, Antoine_Isaac, edsu, Daniel, aliman
16:53:00 <Ralph> Chair: Guus
16:53:47 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:53:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html Ralph
16:54:51 <Zakim> Zakim has left #swd
17:00:06 <edsu> win close
17:00:09 <edsu> edsu has left #swd
17:15:07 <aliman> ralph yes i'll fix that, no worries
18:03:44 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
18:03:44 <RRSAgent> I see 10 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-actions.rdf :
18:03:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ralph send CR transition request for SKOS [1]
18:03:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-irc#T16-15-59
18:03:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: chairs to write the CR transition request [recorded  [2]
18:03:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-irc#T16-17-08
18:03:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph to report on use of RDFa metadata in Recommendations. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action02] [3]
18:03:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-irc#T16-17-54
18:03:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: antoine to prepare revised draft of SKOS Primer ready for decision to publish as WD [4]
18:03:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-irc#T16-25-09
18:03:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph to review the revised Recipes draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-swd-minutes.html#action15] [5]
18:03:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-irc#T16-28-51
18:03:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben review RDFa Use Cases and propose transition to Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-minutes.html#action02] [6]
18:03:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-irc#T16-29-10
18:03:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20] [7]
18:03:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-irc#T16-30-02
18:03:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph post his comments on the editor's draft of the metadata note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action03] [8]
18:03:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-irc#T16-30-35
18:03:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: guus to report on usage of SKOS in vocabularies at VU [9]
18:03:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-irc#T16-45-38
18:03:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: sean to report on SKOSED for SKOS implementation report [10]
18:03:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-irc#T16-47-06