14:57:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wam
14:57:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-wam-irc
14:57:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:28 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wam
14:57:30 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAPP
14:57:30 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:57:31 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
14:57:31 <trackbot> Date: 18 December 2008
14:57:53 <MikeSmith> Meeting: Widgets weekly telcon
14:58:07 <MikeSmith> oh ArtB, we never did get that meeting time set up, huh?
14:58:21 <MikeSmith> I mean, added to Zakim's list?
14:58:42 <MikeSmith> Zakim, list
14:58:42 <Zakim> I see W3C_(Host TF)10:00AM, W3C_(W3F_TF)8:00AM, W3C_(easyts)9:00AM, MWI_BPWG()10:00AM active
14:58:44 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are W3C_(SSL/FOAF)9:00AM, Math_IG()10:00AM, Team_Global(review)8:00AM, Style_XSL FO()10:00AM, Team_(wai-transl)14:06Z, INC_EIIF XG()9:00AM,
14:58:49 <Zakim> ... VB_VBWG()10:00AM, UW_UWA()9:00AM, INC_EMOXG()10:00AM, IA_WebApps(Widgets)10:00AM
14:58:52 <ArtB> zakim, this will be widgets
14:58:52 <Zakim> ok, ArtB; I see IA_WebApps(Widgets)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:59:13 <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike
14:59:13 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
14:59:14 <Zakim> IA_WebApps(Widgets)10:00AM has now started
14:59:15 <Zakim> +Mike
14:59:31 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make log Public
15:00:00 <MikeSmith> ArtB: trackbot makes the logs public automatically
15:00:09 <MikeSmith> if we do trackbot, start meeting
15:00:14 <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:00:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-wam-minutes.html MikeSmith
15:00:19 <Zakim> +Art_Barstow
15:01:05 <ArtB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0505.html
15:01:17 <ArtB> Chair: Art
15:01:18 <Zakim> + +358.503.85aaaa
15:01:22 <ArtB> Scribe: Art
15:01:26 <Zakim> +Caroline
15:01:28 <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
15:01:37 <ArtB> zakim, aaaa is JereK
15:01:37 <Zakim> +JereK; got it
15:01:45 <Zakim> +Claudio
15:01:47 <ArtB> zakim, Caroline is Benoit
15:01:47 <Zakim> +Benoit; got it
15:01:47 <MikeSmith> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see Mike, Art_Barstow, JereK, Benoit, Claudio
15:02:07 <claudio> claudio has joined #wam
15:02:22 <ArtB> Present: Art, Claudio, Benoit, Jere, Mike
15:02:27 <ArtB> Regrets: Arve
15:02:38 <marcos> sorry
15:02:40 <marcos> dialing in
15:03:03 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:03:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-wam-minutes.html ArtB
15:03:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:03:41 <ArtB> Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference
15:03:50 <ArtB> Present+ Marcos
15:03:54 <marcos> Zakim, +[IPcaller] is me 
15:03:54 <Zakim> sorry, marcos, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
15:04:01 <Zakim> + +44.771.751.aabb
15:04:08 <marcos> Zakim, IPcaller is I
15:04:08 <Zakim> +marcos; got it
15:04:18 <ArtB> zakim, aabb is Mark
15:04:19 <Zakim> +Mark; got it
15:04:23 <ArtB> Presnet+ Mark
15:04:25 <Zakim> -Mark
15:04:38 <MikeSmith> Present+ Mark
15:04:47 <ArtB> Topic: Agenda review and tweaking
15:04:55 <Zakim> +Mark
15:05:00 <ArtB> AB: agenda is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0505.html
15:05:16 <ArtB> AB: any change requests?
15:05:35 <ArtB> CV: how about a short summary of the Security Workshop Dec 10-11
15:05:46 <ArtB> AB: good idea; will add it to AOB
15:05:51 <ArtB> AB: any other change reqs?
15:05:54 <ArtB> [None]
15:06:01 <ArtB> Topic: Announcements
15:06:16 <ArtB> AB: this is the last VC in 2008
15:06:43 <ArtB> AB: any other annoucements?
15:07:14 <ArtB> [None]
15:07:32 <ArtB> Topic: P&C spec and Last Call
15:07:54 <ArtB> AB: http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-reqs/
15:08:15 <ArtB> AB: Marcos, please summarize changes since Dec 11 CfC
15:08:24 <ArtB> MC: some changes in Section 8
15:08:35 <ArtB> ... Still a few holes I need to patch today
15:08:43 <tlr> huh? widgets call on for today?
15:08:48 <ArtB> ... Josh has provided some good feedback
15:08:54 <tlr> zakim, call thomas-781
15:08:55 <Zakim> ok, tlr; the call is being made
15:08:56 <Zakim> +Thomas
15:09:00 <ArtB> ... I think we can put in a reqest today
15:09:06 <tlr> zakim, i am thomas
15:09:06 <Zakim> ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas
15:09:08 <tlr> zakim, mute me
15:09:08 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
15:09:37 <ArtB> AB: primarily editorial changes still need to be made?
15:09:40 <Benoit> Benoit has joined #wam
15:09:42 <ArtB> MC: yes
15:09:54 <ArtB> ... some spelling checks and related tidying
15:10:26 <ArtB> AB: please describe the Window Mode change you made today
15:10:37 <ArtB> MC: no one has submitted any inputs for Window Mode
15:10:52 <ArtB> ... Consequently, I added a warning to the spec
15:10:56 <marcos> Warning: Feature at risk! This spec does not define the semantics of the window modes. We seek input regarding - what, if anything, should be specified in this spec versus what should be left as an imple detail. The widget element's mode attribute and associated window modes will be dropped without substantial evidence that they are needed.
15:10:59 <ArtB> ... And a request for feedbback
15:11:18 <ArtB> AB: please read this new text
15:11:27 <ArtB> AB: any issues with this proposed text
15:12:00 <ArtB> MP: we think defining modes in P&C spec
15:12:12 <ArtB> ... we will submit input as part of the review process
15:12:17 <ArtB> BS: I agree with MP
15:12:49 <ArtB> CV: my recollection from last f2f meeting is that for v1 we would go with minimal mode
15:13:03 <ArtB> MC: yes, but we never got any UCs or behaviour descriptions
15:13:39 <ArtB> ... We also don't have a related requirement
15:13:50 <ArtB> BS: so you want both a requirement and a proposal?
15:13:55 <ArtB> MC: yes, that's correct
15:14:19 <ArtB> AB: any other comments on the proposed Warning text?
15:14:53 <ArtB> CV: what level of detail do you want for the requirment?
15:15:05 <ArtB> MC: same level as we have in the Requirements doc
15:16:01 <ArtB> CV: I think we need something like iconized, full screen, floating
15:17:02 <Benoit> do we need to include all existing modes already?
15:18:06 <ArtB> AB: perhaps we should add a request for Use Cases and Requirements to the new warning text
15:18:44 <ArtB> MC: the various WUAs support different modes
15:20:32 <ArtB> AB: sorry to interrupt but I want to postpone deep dive discussion on this topic
15:20:51 <ArtB> ... What we need are specific: Use Cases, Requirements and prescriptive text
15:21:03 <ArtB> ... That should be sent to the public mail list for discussion
15:21:21 <ArtB> ... Fo the purposes of this meeting, we want to discuss if this doc is ready for LC or not
15:21:40 <ArtB> s/Fo the/For the/
15:22:16 <MikeSmith> zakim, mute Mike
15:22:16 <Zakim> Mike should now be muted
15:24:00 <ArtB> BS: I want to understand what inputs can be relfected today
15:24:27 <ArtB> MC: any substantial inputs should be sent after the review period begins
15:24:37 <ArtB> JK: I just sent you the biblio info
15:25:51 <ArtB> AB: I agree with Marcos 
15:26:11 <ArtB> AB: any other comments
15:26:30 <ArtB> AB: I propose we publish a LCWD of the P&C spec
15:26:38 <ArtB> AB: any objections?
15:26:57 <ArtB> MP: how long will the LC review period be?
15:27:11 <ArtB> AB: it will end January 31
15:27:44 <ArtB> AB: any concerns about the Jan 31 date?
15:28:08 <ArtB> ... it will give us 3 weeks before we have our next f2f
15:28:42 <ArtB> BS: I suspect we will have more than one LC, right?
15:29:22 <ArtB> AB: If we get substantial input on any part of the spec, a 2nd LC is likely
15:29:41 <ArtB> AB: any support to publish a LC?
15:29:45 <ArtB> MC: I support
15:29:56 <ArtB> BS: abstain
15:30:14 <ArtB> JK: I support
15:30:25 <ArtB> MP: VF supports it
15:30:36 <ArtB> CV: we support it
15:31:16 <ArtB> RESOLUTION: we will publish a LCWD of the P&C spec
15:31:28 <ArtB> Topic: DigSig Spec
15:31:43 <ArtB> AB: questions for the XML Sec WG
15:31:55 <ArtB> ... Mark closed this today, right?
15:32:11 <ArtB> MP: yes; I submitted a response today
15:32:29 <ArtB> ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0513.html
15:32:42 <ArtB> AB: any other comments?
15:32:46 <ArtB> []None]
15:32:57 <ArtB> Topic: Next F2F Meeting for Widgets group
15:33:26 <ArtB> AB: proposal is Feb 24-26 in Paris hosted by Benoit in Orange
15:33:35 <ArtB> AB: any concerns about that date?
15:33:53 <ArtB> MP: I may have to leave early on the 26th but otherwise that's fine
15:35:21 <ArtB> AB: we have an obligation to annouce f2f meetings 8 weeks in advance
15:35:43 <ArtB> JK: do you have an agenda?
15:35:49 <ArtB> AB: yes; skeleton at http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/WidgetsParisAgenda
15:36:57 <ArtB> AB: I think we'll have plenty to talk about
15:37:49 <ArtB> AB: are there any objections to the f2f during those dates and in that location?
15:37:53 <ArtB> [None]
15:38:13 <ArtB> AB: I will make an annoucement shortly
15:38:23 <ArtB> Topic: AOB
15:38:31 <ArtB> AB: next Voice Conf is January 8
15:38:59 <ArtB> AB: regarding holidays, I'll be offline starting Dec 22 and return on Jan 5
15:39:46 <ArtB> BS: I may have some conflicts on Jan 8 and Jan 15 but will try to join
15:40:07 <ArtB> AB: regarding Security Workshop
15:40:43 <ArtB> AB: the Team will create a Workshop Report and that will be available in January
15:41:22 <ArtB> AB: there was consensus to start two new blocks of work at W3C
15:41:43 <ArtB> ... 1. is Device APIs i.e. JavaScript bindings to services such as contacts, PIM
15:42:25 <ArtB> ... 2. Security Model 
15:44:24 <ArtB> AB: there was some discussion about whether these work items could be done by WebApps or a new WG
15:44:39 <ArtB> ... WebApps seems to have a pretty full plate already
15:45:21 <ArtB> AB: Mark, Marcos, anything to add?
15:45:27 <ArtB> MC: I don't ahve anything to add
15:45:47 <ArtB> MP: there were discussions about user interaction and how to present security info to the user
15:45:59 <ArtB> ... in a usefule way
15:46:03 <ArtB> ... especially on mobiles
15:46:09 <ArtB> ... Lots of good discussions
15:46:21 <ArtB> CV: thanks for those summaries
15:46:39 <ArtB> ... what about managing APIs in terms of a framework?
15:47:01 <ArtB> ... or was it more about vertical APIs?
15:47:55 <ArtB> MC: regarding a framework, I proposed the one we are already specifying e.g. via the <feature> element
15:48:30 <ArtB> CV: is this going to be UWA v2 or Geolocation API replication?
15:48:42 <ArtB> MC: I don't think there will be any replication of work
15:48:43 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
15:48:43 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
15:49:03 <ArtB> ... Nokia said they will submit their APIs
15:49:13 <ArtB> Present+ Thomas
15:49:32 <ArtB> TR: I think this isn't clear
15:49:47 <ArtB> TR: another topic is web apps versus widgets
15:50:11 <ArtB> ... whatever is done for widgets should apply for web apps in general
15:50:36 <tlr> ... and with that, happy holidays ;-)
15:50:41 <ArtB> ... This could be something we need to consider in the context of the widget: scheme discussions
15:51:49 <ArtB> AB: thanks very much Marcos for the great work you've done on the P&C spec
15:51:57 <ArtB> [Lots of thanks for Marcos]
15:52:06 <ArtB> AB: Meeting Adjourned
15:52:09 <MikeSmith> zakim, drop Mike
15:52:09 <Zakim> Mike is being disconnected
15:52:12 <Zakim> -Mike
15:52:12 <Zakim> -Thomas
15:52:12 <Zakim> -Benoit
15:52:13 <Zakim> -Mark
15:52:16 <Zakim> -Claudio
15:52:19 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
15:52:20 <Zakim> -JereK
15:52:25 <Zakim> -marcos
15:52:27 <Zakim> IA_WebApps(Widgets)10:00AM has ended
15:52:28 <Zakim> Attendees were Mike, Art_Barstow, +358.503.85aaaa, JereK, Claudio, Benoit, +44.771.751.aabb, marcos, Mark, Thomas
15:52:35 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:52:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-wam-minutes.html ArtB
15:53:44 <ArtB> RRSAgent, bye
15:53:44 <RRSAgent> I see no action items