IRC log of wam on 2008-12-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:57:26 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #wam

14:57:26 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-wam-irc

14:57:28 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

14:57:28 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #wam

14:57:30 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be WAPP

14:57:30 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot

14:57:31 [trackbot]

Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference

14:57:31 [trackbot]

Date: 18 December 2008

14:57:53 [MikeSmith]

Meeting: Widgets weekly telcon

14:58:07 [MikeSmith]

oh ArtB, we never did get that meeting time set up, huh?

14:58:21 [MikeSmith]

I mean, added to Zakim's list?

14:58:42 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, list

14:58:42 [Zakim]

I see W3C_(Host TF)10:00AM, W3C_(W3F_TF)8:00AM, W3C_(easyts)9:00AM, MWI_BPWG()10:00AM active

14:58:44 [Zakim]

also scheduled at this time are W3C_(SSL/FOAF)9:00AM, Math_IG()10:00AM, Team_Global(review)8:00AM, Style_XSL FO()10:00AM, Team_(wai-transl)14:06Z, INC_EIIF XG()9:00AM,

14:58:49 [Zakim]

... VB_VBWG()10:00AM, UW_UWA()9:00AM, INC_EMOXG()10:00AM, IA_WebApps(Widgets)10:00AM

14:58:52 [ArtB]

zakim, this will be widgets

14:58:52 [Zakim]

ok, ArtB; I see IA_WebApps(Widgets)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

14:59:13 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, call Mike

14:59:13 [Zakim]

ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made

14:59:14 [Zakim]

IA_WebApps(Widgets)10:00AM has now started

14:59:15 [Zakim]

+Mike

14:59:31 [ArtB]

RRSAgent, make log Public

15:00:00 [MikeSmith]

ArtB: trackbot makes the logs public automatically

15:00:09 [MikeSmith]

if we do trackbot, start meeting

15:00:14 [MikeSmith]

RRSAgent, make minutes

15:00:14 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-wam-minutes.html MikeSmith

15:00:19 [Zakim]

+Art_Barstow

15:01:05 [ArtB]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0505.html

15:01:17 [ArtB]

Chair: Art

15:01:18 [Zakim]

+ +358.503.85aaaa

15:01:22 [ArtB]

Scribe: Art

15:01:26 [Zakim]

+Caroline

15:01:28 [ArtB]

ScribeNick: ArtB

15:01:37 [ArtB]

zakim, aaaa is JereK

15:01:37 [Zakim]

+JereK; got it

15:01:45 [Zakim]

+Claudio

15:01:47 [ArtB]

zakim, Caroline is Benoit

15:01:47 [Zakim]

+Benoit; got it

15:01:47 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:01:48 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Mike, Art_Barstow, JereK, Benoit, Claudio

15:02:07 [claudio]

claudio has joined #wam

15:02:22 [ArtB]

Present: Art, Claudio, Benoit, Jere, Mike

15:02:27 [ArtB]

Regrets: Arve

15:02:38 [marcos]

sorry

15:02:40 [marcos]

dialing in

15:03:03 [ArtB]

RRSAgent, make minutes

15:03:03 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-wam-minutes.html ArtB

15:03:36 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:03:41 [ArtB]

Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference

15:03:50 [ArtB]

Present+ Marcos

15:03:54 [marcos]

Zakim, +[IPcaller] is me

15:03:54 [Zakim]

sorry, marcos, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'

15:04:01 [Zakim]

+ +44.771.751.aabb

15:04:08 [marcos]

Zakim, IPcaller is I

15:04:08 [Zakim]

+marcos; got it

15:04:18 [ArtB]

zakim, aabb is Mark

15:04:19 [Zakim]

+Mark; got it

15:04:23 [ArtB]

Presnet+ Mark

15:04:25 [Zakim]

-Mark

15:04:38 [MikeSmith]

Present+ Mark

15:04:47 [ArtB]

Topic: Agenda review and tweaking

15:04:55 [Zakim]

+Mark

15:05:00 [ArtB]

AB: agenda is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0505.html

15:05:16 [ArtB]

AB: any change requests?

15:05:35 [ArtB]

CV: how about a short summary of the Security Workshop Dec 10-11

15:05:46 [ArtB]

AB: good idea; will add it to AOB

15:05:51 [ArtB]

AB: any other change reqs?

15:05:54 [ArtB]

[None]

15:06:01 [ArtB]

Topic: Announcements

15:06:16 [ArtB]

AB: this is the last VC in 2008

15:06:43 [ArtB]

AB: any other annoucements?

15:07:14 [ArtB]

[None]

15:07:32 [ArtB]

Topic: P&C spec and Last Call

15:07:54 [ArtB]

AB: http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-reqs/

15:08:15 [ArtB]

AB: Marcos, please summarize changes since Dec 11 CfC

15:08:24 [ArtB]

MC: some changes in Section 8

15:08:35 [ArtB]

... Still a few holes I need to patch today

15:08:43 [tlr]

huh? widgets call on for today?

15:08:48 [ArtB]

... Josh has provided some good feedback

15:08:54 [tlr]

zakim, call thomas-781

15:08:55 [Zakim]

ok, tlr; the call is being made

15:08:56 [Zakim]

+Thomas

15:09:00 [ArtB]

... I think we can put in a reqest today

15:09:06 [tlr]

zakim, i am thomas

15:09:06 [Zakim]

ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas

15:09:08 [tlr]

zakim, mute me

15:09:08 [Zakim]

Thomas should now be muted

15:09:37 [ArtB]

AB: primarily editorial changes still need to be made?

15:09:40 [Benoit]

Benoit has joined #wam

15:09:42 [ArtB]

MC: yes

15:09:54 [ArtB]

... some spelling checks and related tidying

15:10:26 [ArtB]

AB: please describe the Window Mode change you made today

15:10:37 [ArtB]

MC: no one has submitted any inputs for Window Mode

15:10:52 [ArtB]

... Consequently, I added a warning to the spec

15:10:56 [marcos]

Warning: Feature at risk! This spec does not define the semantics of the window modes. We seek input regarding - what, if anything, should be specified in this spec versus what should be left as an imple detail. The widget element's mode attribute and associated window modes will be dropped without substantial evidence that they are needed.

15:10:59 [ArtB]

... And a request for feedbback

15:11:18 [ArtB]

AB: please read this new text

15:11:27 [ArtB]

AB: any issues with this proposed text

15:12:00 [ArtB]

MP: we think defining modes in P&C spec

15:12:12 [ArtB]

... we will submit input as part of the review process

15:12:17 [ArtB]

BS: I agree with MP

15:12:49 [ArtB]

CV: my recollection from last f2f meeting is that for v1 we would go with minimal mode

15:13:03 [ArtB]

MC: yes, but we never got any UCs or behaviour descriptions

15:13:39 [ArtB]

... We also don't have a related requirement

15:13:50 [ArtB]

BS: so you want both a requirement and a proposal?

15:13:55 [ArtB]

MC: yes, that's correct

15:14:19 [ArtB]

AB: any other comments on the proposed Warning text?

15:14:53 [ArtB]

CV: what level of detail do you want for the requirment?

15:15:05 [ArtB]

MC: same level as we have in the Requirements doc

15:16:01 [ArtB]

CV: I think we need something like iconized, full screen, floating

15:17:02 [Benoit]

do we need to include all existing modes already?

15:18:06 [ArtB]

AB: perhaps we should add a request for Use Cases and Requirements to the new warning text

15:18:44 [ArtB]

MC: the various WUAs support different modes

15:20:32 [ArtB]

AB: sorry to interrupt but I want to postpone deep dive discussion on this topic

15:20:51 [ArtB]

... What we need are specific: Use Cases, Requirements and prescriptive text

15:21:03 [ArtB]

... That should be sent to the public mail list for discussion

15:21:21 [ArtB]

... Fo the purposes of this meeting, we want to discuss if this doc is ready for LC or not

15:21:40 [ArtB]

s/Fo the/For the/

15:22:16 [MikeSmith]

zakim, mute Mike

15:22:16 [Zakim]

Mike should now be muted

15:24:00 [ArtB]

BS: I want to understand what inputs can be relfected today

15:24:27 [ArtB]

MC: any substantial inputs should be sent after the review period begins

15:24:37 [ArtB]

JK: I just sent you the biblio info

15:25:51 [ArtB]

AB: I agree with Marcos

15:26:11 [ArtB]

AB: any other comments

15:26:30 [ArtB]

AB: I propose we publish a LCWD of the P&C spec

15:26:38 [ArtB]

AB: any objections?

15:26:57 [ArtB]

MP: how long will the LC review period be?

15:27:11 [ArtB]

AB: it will end January 31

15:27:44 [ArtB]

AB: any concerns about the Jan 31 date?

15:28:08 [ArtB]

... it will give us 3 weeks before we have our next f2f

15:28:42 [ArtB]

BS: I suspect we will have more than one LC, right?

15:29:22 [ArtB]

AB: If we get substantial input on any part of the spec, a 2nd LC is likely

15:29:41 [ArtB]

AB: any support to publish a LC?

15:29:45 [ArtB]

MC: I support

15:29:56 [ArtB]

BS: abstain

15:30:14 [ArtB]

JK: I support

15:30:25 [ArtB]

MP: VF supports it

15:30:36 [ArtB]

CV: we support it

15:31:16 [ArtB]

RESOLUTION: we will publish a LCWD of the P&C spec

15:31:28 [ArtB]

Topic: DigSig Spec

15:31:43 [ArtB]

AB: questions for the XML Sec WG

15:31:55 [ArtB]

... Mark closed this today, right?

15:32:11 [ArtB]

MP: yes; I submitted a response today

15:32:29 [ArtB]

... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0513.html

15:32:42 [ArtB]

AB: any other comments?

15:32:46 [ArtB]

[]None]

15:32:57 [ArtB]

Topic: Next F2F Meeting for Widgets group

15:33:26 [ArtB]

AB: proposal is Feb 24-26 in Paris hosted by Benoit in Orange

15:33:35 [ArtB]

AB: any concerns about that date?

15:33:53 [ArtB]

MP: I may have to leave early on the 26th but otherwise that's fine

15:35:21 [ArtB]

AB: we have an obligation to annouce f2f meetings 8 weeks in advance

15:35:43 [ArtB]

JK: do you have an agenda?

15:35:49 [ArtB]

AB: yes; skeleton at http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/WidgetsParisAgenda

15:36:57 [ArtB]

AB: I think we'll have plenty to talk about

15:37:49 [ArtB]

AB: are there any objections to the f2f during those dates and in that location?

15:37:53 [ArtB]

[None]

15:38:13 [ArtB]

AB: I will make an annoucement shortly

15:38:23 [ArtB]

Topic: AOB

15:38:31 [ArtB]

AB: next Voice Conf is January 8

15:38:59 [ArtB]

AB: regarding holidays, I'll be offline starting Dec 22 and return on Jan 5

15:39:46 [ArtB]

BS: I may have some conflicts on Jan 8 and Jan 15 but will try to join

15:40:07 [ArtB]

AB: regarding Security Workshop

15:40:43 [ArtB]

AB: the Team will create a Workshop Report and that will be available in January

15:41:22 [ArtB]

AB: there was consensus to start two new blocks of work at W3C

15:41:43 [ArtB]

... 1. is Device APIs i.e. JavaScript bindings to services such as contacts, PIM

15:42:25 [ArtB]

... 2. Security Model

15:44:24 [ArtB]

AB: there was some discussion about whether these work items could be done by WebApps or a new WG

15:44:39 [ArtB]

... WebApps seems to have a pretty full plate already

15:45:21 [ArtB]

AB: Mark, Marcos, anything to add?

15:45:27 [ArtB]

MC: I don't ahve anything to add

15:45:47 [ArtB]

MP: there were discussions about user interaction and how to present security info to the user

15:45:59 [ArtB]

... in a usefule way

15:46:03 [ArtB]

... especially on mobiles

15:46:09 [ArtB]

... Lots of good discussions

15:46:21 [ArtB]

CV: thanks for those summaries

15:46:39 [ArtB]

... what about managing APIs in terms of a framework?

15:47:01 [ArtB]

... or was it more about vertical APIs?

15:47:55 [ArtB]

MC: regarding a framework, I proposed the one we are already specifying e.g. via the <feature> element

15:48:30 [ArtB]

CV: is this going to be UWA v2 or Geolocation API replication?

15:48:42 [ArtB]

MC: I don't think there will be any replication of work

15:48:43 [tlr]

zakim, unmute me

15:48:43 [Zakim]

Thomas should no longer be muted

15:49:03 [ArtB]

... Nokia said they will submit their APIs

15:49:13 [ArtB]

Present+ Thomas

15:49:32 [ArtB]

TR: I think this isn't clear

15:49:47 [ArtB]

TR: another topic is web apps versus widgets

15:50:11 [ArtB]

... whatever is done for widgets should apply for web apps in general

15:50:36 [tlr]

... and with that, happy holidays ;-)

15:50:41 [ArtB]

... This could be something we need to consider in the context of the widget: scheme discussions

15:51:49 [ArtB]

AB: thanks very much Marcos for the great work you've done on the P&C spec

15:51:57 [ArtB]

[Lots of thanks for Marcos]

15:52:06 [ArtB]

AB: Meeting Adjourned

15:52:09 [MikeSmith]

zakim, drop Mike

15:52:09 [Zakim]

Mike is being disconnected

15:52:12 [Zakim]

-Mike

15:52:12 [Zakim]

-Thomas

15:52:12 [Zakim]

-Benoit

15:52:13 [Zakim]

-Mark

15:52:16 [Zakim]

-Claudio

15:52:19 [Zakim]

-Art_Barstow

15:52:20 [Zakim]

-JereK

15:52:25 [Zakim]

-marcos

15:52:27 [Zakim]

IA_WebApps(Widgets)10:00AM has ended

15:52:28 [Zakim]

Attendees were Mike, Art_Barstow, +358.503.85aaaa, JereK, Claudio, Benoit, +44.771.751.aabb, marcos, Mark, Thomas

15:52:35 [ArtB]

RRSAgent, make minutes

15:52:35 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-wam-minutes.html ArtB

15:53:44 [ArtB]

RRSAgent, bye

15:53:44 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items