12:51:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mw4d
12:51:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/15-mw4d-irc
12:51:06 <steph> rrsagent, make log public\
12:51:09 <steph> rrsagent, make log public
12:51:29 <steph> MEETING: bi-monthly MW4D IG Teleconference
12:52:13 <steph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2008Dec/0010.html
12:52:20 <steph> zakim, this will be mw4d
12:52:20 <Zakim> ok, steph; I see UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
12:52:31 <steph> Present:Stephane
12:52:36 <Zakim> UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM has now started
12:52:36 <steph> rrsagent, make log
12:52:36 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make log', steph.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
12:52:43 <Zakim> + +0196266aaaa
12:56:41 <Adesina> Adesina has joined #mw4d
12:57:31 <steph> zakim, code?
12:57:31 <Zakim> the conference code is 6493 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), steph
12:57:40 <Zakim> + +95008aabb
12:57:50 <steph> zakim, aabb is me
12:57:50 <Zakim> +steph; got it
12:57:59 <steph> Present+Stephane
12:58:05 <Adesina> Adesina, will not be able to join on the phone
12:58:07 <steph> zakim, aaaa is betty
12:58:07 <Zakim> +betty; got it
12:58:48 <steph> Hi Adesina
12:58:49 <steph> ok
13:00:17 <Raphael> Raphael has joined #mw4d
13:00:17 <kiwanja> kiwanja has joined #mw4d
13:01:01 <Arun> Arun has joined #mw4d
13:01:02 <kiwanja> hi all
13:01:26 <Adesina> Hi Steph
13:01:27 <Arun> Hi
13:01:35 <Adesina> Ki Ken
13:01:37 <Zakim> + +41.22.730.aacc
13:01:50 <Raphael> hi all
13:01:51 <steph> zakim, aacc is Raphael
13:01:51 <Zakim> +Raphael; got it
13:01:55 <steph> Hi Ken
13:02:00 <Adesina> Hi Raphael
13:02:04 <steph> i thought you were away Ken
13:02:08 <Zakim> +??P5
13:02:22 <steph> zakim, ??P5 is Ken
13:02:23 <Zakim> +Ken; got it
13:03:13 <NicolasC> NicolasC has joined #mw4d
13:03:32 <Adesina> Arun, how are you?
13:03:47 <Arun> Great ! Thanks Adesina.
13:04:06 <Arun> I am not yet connected on phone...calling in a couple of min.
13:04:16 <Zakim> + +31.62.247.aadd
13:04:28 <steph> zakim, aadd is Nicolas
13:04:28 <Zakim> +Nicolas; got it
13:05:03 <Zakim> + +91.11.41.29.aaee
13:05:18 <steph> zakim, aaee is arun
13:05:18 <Zakim> +arun; got it
13:05:37 <steph> Present+Ken,Arun,Nicolas,Raphael
13:05:45 <steph> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:05:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/15-mw4d-minutes.html steph
13:06:07 <Adesina> ok
13:06:14 <steph> Present+Betty,Adesina
13:06:23 <steph> Chair: Stephane
13:06:30 <Adesina> Yes, Adesina is here
13:06:50 <Zakim> + +035850558aaff
13:07:07 <steph> zakim, aaff is Lauri
13:07:07 <Zakim> +Lauri; got it
13:07:12 <steph> Present+Lauri
13:07:17 <ewheeler> ewheeler has joined #mw4d
13:07:22 <steph> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2008Dec/0010.html
13:07:26 <Adesina> Hello Lauri
13:08:17 <steph> Topic: minutes approval
13:08:25 <steph> http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-mw4d-minutes.html
13:08:48 <steph> Topic: Action items
13:09:54 <Zakim> + +1.336.413.aagg
13:10:05 <Adesina> feedback on M4D 2008 conference
13:10:27 <steph> zakim, aagg is Evan
13:10:27 <Zakim> +Evan; got it
13:10:31 <Adesina> Kindly provide information on the chat so that I can keep up
13:10:42 <kiwanja> no problem, adesina
13:11:09 <steph> Topic: Introduction
13:11:35 <Adesina> ok, thanks
13:11:57 <kiwanja> betty doing introductions - background in web science
13:12:05 <kiwanja> at university of southampton
13:12:30 <Adesina> Hi betty, I am at the university of Portsmouth
13:12:45 <Zakim> + +1.773.440.aahh
13:13:26 <steph> Zakim, aahh is Mira
13:13:26 <Zakim> +Mira; got it
13:13:43 <steph> Betty: working on measurement of impact of mobile web l
13:13:47 <steph> like improved GDB
13:13:48 <Adesina> Mira Slovona?
13:14:02 <Raphael> Slavova
13:14:02 <Adesina> Really, that is great Betty
13:14:14 <Adesina> ok, thanks for the correction
13:14:18 <steph> s/GDB/GDP/
13:14:27 <betty> Hi Adesina, Portsmouth is very closed to Soton. Wish we could meet & discuss later.
13:14:57 <steph> Topic: Liberia Project
13:15:24 <Raphael> 10 minute presentation on the ITC Mobile solution project for Liberian Market Women 
13:15:33 <Raphael> By Mira Slavova and Raphaël Dard 
13:15:59 <Raphael> Slide 2 - The request
13:16:00 <Raphael>     * Market Women are a backbone of Liberian economy and social life
13:16:00 <Raphael>     * Giving a hand to Market Women is consolidating this country's economy
13:16:00 <Raphael>     * Before export can take place, national economy needs strengthening
13:16:00 <Raphael>     * Up-coming Colloquium (ITC on the economic empowerment section of the event)
13:17:06 <Adesina> very close, we are neigbours
13:17:08 <steph> q+ to ask if this is part of a more global project, and how liberia has been selected
13:17:23 <Raphael> http://liberia.tigblog.org/
13:17:26 <Adesina> ok later on
13:17:56 <Raphael> A business matching system (using their main communication device as a channel, anywhere they are)
13:17:56 <Raphael>     * Overcoming distances
13:17:56 <Raphael>     * Bringing more business opportunities with less travel time
13:17:56 <Raphael>     * Roads being rare and in bad conditions, communication is crucial for producers who need markets/buyers
13:17:56 <Raphael>     * Linking agri-food brokers in main cities/markets with agri-food producers in countryside/villages (http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=lr&net=ct)
13:17:58 <Raphael>     * Multiplying buyer/seller interactions/choices 
13:18:42 <Adesina> Raphael, nice concept. lack of economic growth factor in mobile projects was disacussed at trhe M4D 2008
13:19:33 <Adesina> Great Raphael, kindly send to me the concept paper for the project
13:19:45 <Raphael> General Constraints
13:19:46 <Raphael>     * Access to transport
13:19:46 <Raphael>     * Literacy (45% (of the surveyed marketers) do not read or write, nor have been to any formal school http://smwf.org/reports/MarketStudyReport.pdf)
13:19:46 <Raphael>     * Access to credit
13:19:46 <Raphael>     * Market women as small scale brokers 
13:21:17 <Raphael> Constraints for the information system
13:21:18 <Raphael>     * Critical mass of system use (value is proportionate to the number of members)
13:21:18 <Raphael>     * Incentives to report information
13:21:18 <Raphael>     * Incentives to use the information provided
13:21:18 <Raphael>     * Incentives to add one behaviour among established market behaviours
13:21:19 <Raphael>     * Data-plans, when available, are still not affordable for most 
13:22:01 <steph> q+ to ask if the data service coverage is lower than gsm
13:22:45 <Adesina> Data service is still at the infancy in Africa
13:23:05 <Arun> q+ How are the cost of calls compared to data service ?
13:23:08 <Raphael>     *  Very dynamic for making business (even small scale and informal)
13:23:09 <Raphael>     * Keen to use innovative IT applications (mobile phone-based in particular)
13:23:09 <Raphael>     * Huge number of small transactions (a business for telcos will mean system sustainability)
13:23:09 <Raphael>     * Phone's capacities increase 
13:23:33 <Arun> q+ to ask how are the cost of calls compared to data service ?
13:25:01 <Raphael>     *  Offering the possibility to browse (through offers and requests)
13:25:01 <Raphael>     * Combining "online (connected time)" and "offline" strengths (to be studied with SMS and other protocols) 
13:25:01 <Raphael>     * Requiring registration is a must (although also a disadvantage)
13:25:01 <Raphael>           o Basic info (name (user ID), location, business profil)
13:25:01 <Raphael>           o Offers a certain level of confidence into the system to users 
13:25:14 <NicolasC> q+ how far are u on the discussion over the business model?
13:26:05 <Adesina> Is this Nicolas Chervollier?
13:26:22 <NicolasC> yes
13:27:02 <Raphael> GOAL: find the right protocols according to people and systems/devices capabilities 
13:27:18 <Raphael>     *  From User to phone
13:27:18 <Raphael>           o Verbal to data 
13:27:18 <Raphael>     * From phone to telco (& telco to phone)
13:27:18 <Raphael>           o SMS
13:27:18 <Raphael>           o GPRS
13:27:19 <Raphael>           o Depending on what is available (with one telco/ with all 4 telcos) 
13:27:21 <Raphael>     * From phone to user
13:27:23 <Raphael>           o Data to verbal (speaking phones) 
13:28:53 <Raphael>     *  Is it phone-based?
13:28:53 <Raphael>     * Is it downloadable?
13:28:53 <Raphael>     * How much does it cost to download?
13:28:53 <Raphael>     * Is it telco independent?
13:28:53 <Raphael>     * Is it device independent 
13:28:54 <Adesina> Raphael, nice concepts, I am enjoying it
13:29:44 <NicolasC> q+ to ask how far are u on the discussion over the business model?
13:30:19 <Arun> q+ to ask Raphael, we got a view of the inputs from user to system, what are the kinds of outputs to be delivered to user ?
13:30:20 <Raphael> Thanks for your attention. Your questions, advices and comments are welcome 
13:30:39 <betty> q+ Many users are illiterate, how possible is it to have natural language processing to support verbal <-> data?
13:30:43 <steph> ack me
13:30:43 <Zakim> steph, you wanted to ask if this is part of a more global project, and how liberia has been selected and to ask if the data service coverage is lower than gsm
13:31:19 <steph> q+
13:31:35 <steph> steph: how did you select the country
13:31:45 <steph> rapahel: ITC already there
13:31:46 <Adesina> q+
13:33:06 <steph> steph: goal to replicability ?
13:33:11 <Adesina> Discussion on the chat please
13:33:34 <steph> raphael: not really, useful for others, but situation may differ
13:33:50 <kiwanja> q+
13:33:58 <steph> i hope it will not be for liberia only, and we could give to companies
13:34:09 <steph> no limitation for now but it is a pilot
13:34:14 <steph> ack Arun
13:34:14 <Zakim> Arun, you wanted to ask how are the cost of calls compared to data service ? and to ask Raphael, we got a view of the inputs from user to system, what are the kinds of outputs to
13:34:18 <Zakim> ... be delivered to user ?
13:34:39 <steph> arun: doing a similar in india, very interesting for us
13:34:52 <steph> arun: cost of services vs voice communication
13:35:00 <steph> s/service/data service/
13:35:20 <Adesina> situation or context matters, but having a successful model is good
13:35:35 <steph> rapahel: cannot answer, will come back to you, interesting question
13:36:22 <steph> Arun:what are you expecting from the system. who is giving input ?
13:36:56 <steph> Rapahel: automatique input (location/phone number), and then user generated type of goods, quantity, and prices
13:37:11 <steph> enough for an eventual buyers
13:37:33 <steph> enabling people to contact each other
13:37:40 <steph> if needed
13:37:50 <steph> (also the date is important and will be there)
13:38:09 <steph> arun: match making system
13:38:14 <Arun> q-
13:38:15 <steph> ack nicolasc
13:38:16 <Zakim> NicolasC, you wanted to ask how far are u on the discussion over the business model?
13:38:30 <steph> nicolas: sustainable on hte long term
13:38:38 <steph> what is the business model ?
13:38:40 <Adesina> sustainbale business model?
13:38:45 <steph> and also very limited coverage
13:38:50 <steph> are producers convered ?
13:39:17 <steph> raphael: we have ideas on how to proceed, and also discussing with local operators
13:39:30 <steph> no business model yet with figures and numbers, working on it
13:39:43 <Adesina> ok
13:39:54 <steph> still flexible, depending on the system we will design
13:40:03 <steph> s/convered/covered/
13:40:24 <steph> raphael: i've other maps more positive
13:40:40 <steph> anyway lots of people covered
13:40:50 <steph> and following the roads
13:40:59 <steph> way enough for the pilot
13:41:24 <steph> even if limited to monrovia, it will be enough
13:41:24 <Adesina> when is the pilot going to be concluded?
13:42:02 <steph> stephane: percentage of population covered ? but enough
13:42:06 <steph> ack zakim
13:42:11 <steph> ack me
13:42:23 <steph> raphael: not an issue for now
13:42:55 <steph> not sure if the subscription will be free
13:43:04 <steph> aim: 100 subcribers
13:43:11 <steph> not problem on this side
13:43:24 <steph> access to phones and litteracy are the biggest issues
13:43:58 <steph> stephane: data service coverage ?
13:44:15 <steph> raphael: no info, some gprs coverage but no information 
13:44:19 <steph> still working on it
13:44:25 <Adesina> Access to phone is due high costs and taxation
13:44:39 <steph> raphael: for adesina, initial pilot in march 2009
13:44:47 <Adesina> Try GSMA website for GPRS coverage
13:45:00 <Adesina> ok raph
13:45:00 <steph> q+ Lauri
13:45:15 <steph> adesina it is your turn
13:45:16 <steph> question ?
13:45:21 <steph> ack adesina
13:45:33 <Adesina> ok,
13:45:41 <steph> GSMA does not have gprs coverage info
13:45:43 <Adesina> just a brief on M4D 2008 conference
13:45:56 <Adesina> Conference went well and was interesting
13:45:56 <steph> sorry we should come back to that later
13:46:06 <steph> let's finish on raphael
13:46:09 <steph> project
13:46:14 <steph> ack kiwanja
13:46:24 <kiwanja> wondering how much research has been done on other solutions and systems being used around the world - this type of project has been (and is being) tried in many places. sometimes things get replicated and lessons are not always learnt/shared
13:46:26 <Adesina> Different m projects ranging from health, agriculuture, insurance were presented
13:46:53 <Adesina> ok steph
13:47:48 <steph> Raphael: i got lots of information from ????? about similar agriculture system
13:47:56 <betty> q+
13:48:06 <steph> we are not really on market prices, but on business matchings
13:48:10 <steph> quite different
13:48:26 <steph> ken: i've some examples i will send it to you
13:48:56 <steph> ken: public info you received ?
13:49:04 <steph> raphael: will share it when finished
13:49:47 <steph> ack Lauri
13:49:48 <Adesina> ok
13:49:50 <Raphael> www.fara-africa.org
13:50:38 <steph> Lauri: if you need to have access to phones characteristics .mobi have a free database
13:50:42 <kiwanja> there's also a database of mobile devices and specs at WURFL
13:50:49 <steph> q+ to say that the characteristic is not enough
13:50:56 <kiwanja> (not sure if this is the same thing as what Lauri is talking about)
13:51:00 <Adesina> FARA, backed by Gates Foundation?
13:51:16 <steph> Lauri: the last nobel prize from finland worked a lot in Africa
13:51:32 <steph> he visited liberia 2 months ago
13:51:44 <Adesina> Attasari?
13:51:49 <steph> yes
13:51:53 <Adesina> ok
13:53:20 <steph> Lauri: other area like cloths makers are potential
13:54:42 <kiwanja> (Nice to see you here, Mira! Welcome)
13:54:58 <Adesina> Hello Mira
13:55:28 <steph> Raphael: the one i found was C119
13:55:55 <Adesina> what is C119?
13:56:03 <steph> Nicolas: at m4d, Mr Denton from GSMA has plenty of data about Africa.
13:56:07 <steph> we should ask them
13:56:24 <Adesina> Yes, GSMA has lots of information
13:56:27 <steph> Lauri: on .mobi there are such info
13:56:29 <kiwanja> c119 (or c188) was the phone which 'won' the Emerging Market Handset (EMH) competition run by the GSMA three years ago (?)
13:56:35 <steph> ack betty
13:56:40 <Adesina> Even on thier website. www.gsma.org
13:56:46 <kiwanja> sorry - c118
13:57:00 <Adesina> ok, the one form Motorola?
13:57:04 <kiwanja> yes
13:57:08 <steph> betty: user interface ? what is the current tech you are using between voice and data to cope with illiteracy
13:57:09 <Adesina> ok,
13:57:41 <steph> rapahel: i cannot comment, very early phase on that point the choice of tehcnology is not done yet
13:57:43 <Adesina> Any information on this 3G phone for all by LG?
13:58:00 <kiwanja> Adesina: It's a bit like this - http://www.kiwanja.net/gallery/handsets/kiwanja_handsets_23.jpg
13:58:03 <steph> betty: are you planning to use camera phone ?
13:58:30 <steph> raphael: cannot answer
13:58:34 <steph> q?
13:58:37 <Adesina> GSMA is also in support of this project
13:58:48 <steph> ack me
13:58:48 <Zakim> steph, you wanted to say that the characteristic is not enough
13:59:12 <steph> Lauri: one year ago we did a demo at unesco
13:59:21 <steph> using lowest end phones 
13:59:24 <steph> very successfull
13:59:47 <steph> very low-cost phones includes enough to have advanced apps for video, graphic,...
13:59:51 <betty> q+
14:00:06 <Raphael> q+
14:00:44 <steph> Betty: interesting unesco project, could-you send info ?
14:00:48 <Adesina> Tapan Parikh work in India using mobile phone camera for document processing in rural areas could be useful
14:00:56 <steph> ACTION: Lauri to send info about unesco project
14:01:16 <steph> ack betty
14:01:27 <Adesina> q+
14:01:28 <steph> Lauri: Library of congress was part of the project
14:01:40 <steph> zakim, clode the queue
14:01:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'clode the queue', steph
14:01:43 <steph> zakim, close the queue
14:01:43 <Zakim> ok, steph, the speaker queue is closed
14:01:43 <Arun> Tapan Parikh's work uses printed bar code to integrate paper forms with online systems
14:02:01 <betty> Thank you very much Lauri & Adesina.
14:02:06 <NicolasC> all, I have to run another meeting. Look forward to reading the minutes
14:02:25 <Adesina> Nicolas, your e-mail pls
14:02:48 <steph> Rapahel: in liberia, some people told us that we have to come with some phones, but the system has to work on all phones
14:03:02 <steph> we didn't see people using camera
14:03:08 <steph> and the screen were vbery bad quality
14:03:24 <Adesina> I met the chap at Easyfone focussed on recyling high end phones into Africa, he couls be useful here
14:03:38 <steph> for the moment, we are looking only at text and voice
14:03:40 <betty> Thanks Arun. I'm stydying Tapan Parikh's project & HSTP as well.
14:03:45 <NicolasC> nicolas.chevrollier@tno.nl
14:04:01 <Adesina> what is HSTP
14:04:10 <Arun> Welcome. We are working with Tapan on a project.
14:04:18 <Adesina> Nic: thanks
14:04:22 <Arun> HSTP stands for Hyperspeech Transfer Protocol.
14:05:02 <Arun> http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/research_people.nsf/pages/arun_kumar.pubs.html/$FILE/ht07.pdf
14:05:03 <betty> HSTP is cool. I'd like to discuss it more with Arun.
14:05:13 <Adesina> ok thanks
14:05:34 <Raphael> thanks a lot for all comments!
14:05:57 <Zakim> -Nicolas
14:06:17 <Zakim> -steph
14:06:19 <Zakim> -Ken
14:06:20 <Zakim> -Lauri
14:06:21 <Zakim> -Mira
14:06:22 <Zakim> -Raphael
14:06:27 <Zakim> -Evan
14:06:29 <steph> ACTION: raphael to send a summary of the project review in liberia
14:06:31 <Arun> Bye all. Hv a Happy New Year !
14:06:33 <Raphael> bonnes fêtes
14:06:36 <kiwanja> Thanks!
14:06:38 <Zakim> -betty
14:06:40 <Adesina> Happy new
14:06:41 <steph> bonne fetes too !
14:06:50 <steph> Next meeting January 5th 2009
14:06:53 <steph> adjourned
14:06:54 <Adesina> will like tompresent on mHealth in the new year, sTEPH
14:06:58 <betty> Bye everybody. Thanks for the nice discussion.
14:06:59 <steph> zakim, draft minutes
14:06:59 <Zakim> I don't understand 'draft minutes', steph
14:07:11 <steph> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:07:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/15-mw4d-minutes.html steph
14:07:16 <steph> adesina ?
14:07:38 <steph> you want to present your project on hte 5th ?
14:08:01 <Adesina> yES, aDESINA
14:08:17 <Adesina> some projects from developing countries on mHealth
14:08:24 <steph> sounds great
14:08:32 <steph> i put you in hte agenda of the 5th
14:08:40 <Adesina> Is there a means of sharing Powerpoint? during teleconference?
14:09:41 <Adesina> ok
14:10:29 <steph> adesina, not really but if you send it to the list verybody can access it
14:10:43 <Adesina> ok then
14:35:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, arun, in UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM
14:35:02 <Zakim> UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM has ended
14:35:06 <Zakim> Attendees were +0196266aaaa, +95008aabb, steph, betty, +41.22.730.aacc, Raphael, Ken, +31.62.247.aadd, Nicolas, +91.11.41.29.aaee, arun, +035850558aaff, Lauri, +1.336.413.aagg,
14:35:08 <Zakim> ... Evan, +1.773.440.aahh, Mira
16:25:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mw4d