IRC log of mw4d on 2008-12-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:51:00 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mw4d
12:51:00 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/15-mw4d-irc
12:51:06 [steph]
rrsagent, make log public\
12:51:09 [steph]
rrsagent, make log public
12:51:29 [steph]
MEETING: bi-monthly MW4D IG Teleconference
12:52:13 [steph]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2008Dec/0010.html
12:52:20 [steph]
zakim, this will be mw4d
12:52:20 [Zakim]
ok, steph; I see UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
12:52:31 [steph]
Present:Stephane
12:52:36 [Zakim]
UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM has now started
12:52:36 [steph]
rrsagent, make log
12:52:36 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make log', steph. Try /msg RRSAgent help
12:52:43 [Zakim]
+ +0196266aaaa
12:56:41 [Adesina]
Adesina has joined #mw4d
12:57:31 [steph]
zakim, code?
12:57:31 [Zakim]
the conference code is 6493 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), steph
12:57:40 [Zakim]
+ +95008aabb
12:57:50 [steph]
zakim, aabb is me
12:57:50 [Zakim]
+steph; got it
12:57:59 [steph]
Present+Stephane
12:58:05 [Adesina]
Adesina, will not be able to join on the phone
12:58:07 [steph]
zakim, aaaa is betty
12:58:07 [Zakim]
+betty; got it
12:58:48 [steph]
Hi Adesina
12:58:49 [steph]
ok
13:00:17 [Raphael]
Raphael has joined #mw4d
13:00:17 [kiwanja]
kiwanja has joined #mw4d
13:01:01 [Arun]
Arun has joined #mw4d
13:01:02 [kiwanja]
hi all
13:01:26 [Adesina]
Hi Steph
13:01:27 [Arun]
Hi
13:01:35 [Adesina]
Ki Ken
13:01:37 [Zakim]
+ +41.22.730.aacc
13:01:50 [Raphael]
hi all
13:01:51 [steph]
zakim, aacc is Raphael
13:01:51 [Zakim]
+Raphael; got it
13:01:55 [steph]
Hi Ken
13:02:00 [Adesina]
Hi Raphael
13:02:04 [steph]
i thought you were away Ken
13:02:08 [Zakim]
+??P5
13:02:22 [steph]
zakim, ??P5 is Ken
13:02:23 [Zakim]
+Ken; got it
13:03:13 [NicolasC]
NicolasC has joined #mw4d
13:03:32 [Adesina]
Arun, how are you?
13:03:47 [Arun]
Great ! Thanks Adesina.
13:04:06 [Arun]
I am not yet connected on phone...calling in a couple of min.
13:04:16 [Zakim]
+ +31.62.247.aadd
13:04:28 [steph]
zakim, aadd is Nicolas
13:04:28 [Zakim]
+Nicolas; got it
13:05:03 [Zakim]
+ +91.11.41.29.aaee
13:05:18 [steph]
zakim, aaee is arun
13:05:18 [Zakim]
+arun; got it
13:05:37 [steph]
Present+Ken,Arun,Nicolas,Raphael
13:05:45 [steph]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:05:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/15-mw4d-minutes.html steph
13:06:07 [Adesina]
ok
13:06:14 [steph]
Present+Betty,Adesina
13:06:23 [steph]
Chair: Stephane
13:06:30 [Adesina]
Yes, Adesina is here
13:06:50 [Zakim]
+ +035850558aaff
13:07:07 [steph]
zakim, aaff is Lauri
13:07:07 [Zakim]
+Lauri; got it
13:07:12 [steph]
Present+Lauri
13:07:17 [ewheeler]
ewheeler has joined #mw4d
13:07:22 [steph]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2008Dec/0010.html
13:07:26 [Adesina]
Hello Lauri
13:08:17 [steph]
Topic: minutes approval
13:08:25 [steph]
http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-mw4d-minutes.html
13:08:48 [steph]
Topic: Action items
13:09:54 [Zakim]
+ +1.336.413.aagg
13:10:05 [Adesina]
feedback on M4D 2008 conference
13:10:27 [steph]
zakim, aagg is Evan
13:10:27 [Zakim]
+Evan; got it
13:10:31 [Adesina]
Kindly provide information on the chat so that I can keep up
13:10:42 [kiwanja]
no problem, adesina
13:11:09 [steph]
Topic: Introduction
13:11:35 [Adesina]
ok, thanks
13:11:57 [kiwanja]
betty doing introductions - background in web science
13:12:05 [kiwanja]
at university of southampton
13:12:30 [Adesina]
Hi betty, I am at the university of Portsmouth
13:12:45 [Zakim]
+ +1.773.440.aahh
13:13:26 [steph]
Zakim, aahh is Mira
13:13:26 [Zakim]
+Mira; got it
13:13:43 [steph]
Betty: working on measurement of impact of mobile web l
13:13:47 [steph]
like improved GDB
13:13:48 [Adesina]
Mira Slovona?
13:14:02 [Raphael]
Slavova
13:14:02 [Adesina]
Really, that is great Betty
13:14:14 [Adesina]
ok, thanks for the correction
13:14:18 [steph]
s/GDB/GDP/
13:14:27 [betty]
Hi Adesina, Portsmouth is very closed to Soton. Wish we could meet & discuss later.
13:14:57 [steph]
Topic: Liberia Project
13:15:24 [Raphael]
10 minute presentation on the ITC Mobile solution project for Liberian Market Women
13:15:33 [Raphael]
By Mira Slavova and Raphaël Dard
13:15:59 [Raphael]
Slide 2 - The request
13:16:00 [Raphael]
* Market Women are a backbone of Liberian economy and social life
13:16:00 [Raphael]
* Giving a hand to Market Women is consolidating this country's economy
13:16:00 [Raphael]
* Before export can take place, national economy needs strengthening
13:16:00 [Raphael]
* Up-coming Colloquium (ITC on the economic empowerment section of the event)
13:17:06 [Adesina]
very close, we are neigbours
13:17:08 [steph]
q+ to ask if this is part of a more global project, and how liberia has been selected
13:17:23 [Raphael]
http://liberia.tigblog.org/
13:17:26 [Adesina]
ok later on
13:17:56 [Raphael]
A business matching system (using their main communication device as a channel, anywhere they are)
13:17:56 [Raphael]
* Overcoming distances
13:17:56 [Raphael]
* Bringing more business opportunities with less travel time
13:17:56 [Raphael]
* Roads being rare and in bad conditions, communication is crucial for producers who need markets/buyers
13:17:56 [Raphael]
* Linking agri-food brokers in main cities/markets with agri-food producers in countryside/villages (http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=lr&net=ct)
13:17:58 [Raphael]
* Multiplying buyer/seller interactions/choices
13:18:42 [Adesina]
Raphael, nice concept. lack of economic growth factor in mobile projects was disacussed at trhe M4D 2008
13:19:33 [Adesina]
Great Raphael, kindly send to me the concept paper for the project
13:19:45 [Raphael]
General Constraints
13:19:46 [Raphael]
* Access to transport
13:19:46 [Raphael]
* Literacy (45% (of the surveyed marketers) do not read or write, nor have been to any formal school http://smwf.org/reports/MarketStudyReport.pdf)
13:19:46 [Raphael]
* Access to credit
13:19:46 [Raphael]
* Market women as small scale brokers
13:21:17 [Raphael]
Constraints for the information system
13:21:18 [Raphael]
* Critical mass of system use (value is proportionate to the number of members)
13:21:18 [Raphael]
* Incentives to report information
13:21:18 [Raphael]
* Incentives to use the information provided
13:21:18 [Raphael]
* Incentives to add one behaviour among established market behaviours
13:21:19 [Raphael]
* Data-plans, when available, are still not affordable for most
13:22:01 [steph]
q+ to ask if the data service coverage is lower than gsm
13:22:45 [Adesina]
Data service is still at the infancy in Africa
13:23:05 [Arun]
q+ How are the cost of calls compared to data service ?
13:23:08 [Raphael]
* Very dynamic for making business (even small scale and informal)
13:23:09 [Raphael]
* Keen to use innovative IT applications (mobile phone-based in particular)
13:23:09 [Raphael]
* Huge number of small transactions (a business for telcos will mean system sustainability)
13:23:09 [Raphael]
* Phone's capacities increase
13:23:33 [Arun]
q+ to ask how are the cost of calls compared to data service ?
13:25:01 [Raphael]
* Offering the possibility to browse (through offers and requests)
13:25:01 [Raphael]
* Combining "online (connected time)" and "offline" strengths (to be studied with SMS and other protocols)
13:25:01 [Raphael]
* Requiring registration is a must (although also a disadvantage)
13:25:01 [Raphael]
o Basic info (name (user ID), location, business profil)
13:25:01 [Raphael]
o Offers a certain level of confidence into the system to users
13:25:14 [NicolasC]
q+ how far are u on the discussion over the business model?
13:26:05 [Adesina]
Is this Nicolas Chervollier?
13:26:22 [NicolasC]
yes
13:27:18 [Raphael]
* From User to phone
13:27:18 [Raphael]
o Verbal to data
13:27:18 [Raphael]
* From phone to telco (& telco to phone)
13:27:18 [Raphael]
o SMS
13:27:18 [Raphael]
o GPRS
13:27:19 [Raphael]
o Depending on what is available (with one telco/ with all 4 telcos)
13:27:21 [Raphael]
* From phone to user
13:27:23 [Raphael]
o Data to verbal (speaking phones)
13:28:53 [Raphael]
* Is it phone-based?
13:28:53 [Raphael]
* Is it downloadable?
13:28:53 [Raphael]
* How much does it cost to download?
13:28:53 [Raphael]
* Is it telco independent?
13:28:53 [Raphael]
* Is it device independent
13:28:54 [Adesina]
Raphael, nice concepts, I am enjoying it
13:29:44 [NicolasC]
q+ to ask how far are u on the discussion over the business model?
13:30:19 [Arun]
q+ to ask Raphael, we got a view of the inputs from user to system, what are the kinds of outputs to be delivered to user ?
13:30:20 [Raphael]
Thanks for your attention. Your questions, advices and comments are welcome
13:30:39 [betty]
q+ Many users are illiterate, how possible is it to have natural language processing to support verbal <-> data?
13:30:43 [steph]
ack me
13:30:43 [Zakim]
steph, you wanted to ask if this is part of a more global project, and how liberia has been selected and to ask if the data service coverage is lower than gsm
13:31:19 [steph]
q+
13:31:35 [steph]
steph: how did you select the country
13:31:45 [steph]
rapahel: ITC already there
13:31:46 [Adesina]
q+
13:33:06 [steph]
steph: goal to replicability ?
13:33:11 [Adesina]
Discussion on the chat please
13:33:34 [steph]
raphael: not really, useful for others, but situation may differ
13:33:50 [kiwanja]
q+
13:33:58 [steph]
i hope it will not be for liberia only, and we could give to companies
13:34:09 [steph]
no limitation for now but it is a pilot
13:34:14 [steph]
ack Arun
13:34:14 [Zakim]
Arun, you wanted to ask how are the cost of calls compared to data service ? and to ask Raphael, we got a view of the inputs from user to system, what are the kinds of outputs to
13:34:18 [Zakim]
... be delivered to user ?
13:34:39 [steph]
arun: doing a similar in india, very interesting for us
13:34:52 [steph]
arun: cost of services vs voice communication
13:35:00 [steph]
s/service/data service/
13:35:20 [Adesina]
situation or context matters, but having a successful model is good
13:35:35 [steph]
rapahel: cannot answer, will come back to you, interesting question
13:36:22 [steph]
Arun:what are you expecting from the system. who is giving input ?
13:36:56 [steph]
Rapahel: automatique input (location/phone number), and then user generated type of goods, quantity, and prices
13:37:11 [steph]
enough for an eventual buyers
13:37:33 [steph]
enabling people to contact each other
13:37:40 [steph]
if needed
13:37:50 [steph]
(also the date is important and will be there)
13:38:09 [steph]
arun: match making system
13:38:14 [Arun]
q-
13:38:15 [steph]
ack nicolasc
13:38:16 [Zakim]
NicolasC, you wanted to ask how far are u on the discussion over the business model?
13:38:30 [steph]
nicolas: sustainable on hte long term
13:38:38 [steph]
what is the business model ?
13:38:40 [Adesina]
sustainbale business model?
13:38:45 [steph]
and also very limited coverage
13:38:50 [steph]
are producers convered ?
13:39:17 [steph]
raphael: we have ideas on how to proceed, and also discussing with local operators
13:39:30 [steph]
no business model yet with figures and numbers, working on it
13:39:43 [Adesina]
ok
13:39:54 [steph]
still flexible, depending on the system we will design
13:40:03 [steph]
s/convered/covered/
13:40:24 [steph]
raphael: i've other maps more positive
13:40:40 [steph]
anyway lots of people covered
13:40:50 [steph]
and following the roads
13:40:59 [steph]
way enough for the pilot
13:41:24 [steph]
even if limited to monrovia, it will be enough
13:41:24 [Adesina]
when is the pilot going to be concluded?
13:42:02 [steph]
stephane: percentage of population covered ? but enough
13:42:06 [steph]
ack zakim
13:42:11 [steph]
ack me
13:42:23 [steph]
raphael: not an issue for now
13:42:55 [steph]
not sure if the subscription will be free
13:43:04 [steph]
aim: 100 subcribers
13:43:11 [steph]
not problem on this side
13:43:24 [steph]
access to phones and litteracy are the biggest issues
13:43:58 [steph]
stephane: data service coverage ?
13:44:15 [steph]
raphael: no info, some gprs coverage but no information
13:44:19 [steph]
still working on it
13:44:25 [Adesina]
Access to phone is due high costs and taxation
13:44:39 [steph]
raphael: for adesina, initial pilot in march 2009
13:44:47 [Adesina]
Try GSMA website for GPRS coverage
13:45:00 [Adesina]
ok raph
13:45:00 [steph]
q+ Lauri
13:45:15 [steph]
adesina it is your turn
13:45:16 [steph]
question ?
13:45:21 [steph]
ack adesina
13:45:33 [Adesina]
ok,
13:45:41 [steph]
GSMA does not have gprs coverage info
13:45:43 [Adesina]
just a brief on M4D 2008 conference
13:45:56 [Adesina]
Conference went well and was interesting
13:45:56 [steph]
sorry we should come back to that later
13:46:06 [steph]
let's finish on raphael
13:46:09 [steph]
project
13:46:14 [steph]
ack kiwanja
13:46:24 [kiwanja]
wondering how much research has been done on other solutions and systems being used around the world - this type of project has been (and is being) tried in many places. sometimes things get replicated and lessons are not always learnt/shared
13:46:26 [Adesina]
Different m projects ranging from health, agriculuture, insurance were presented
13:46:53 [Adesina]
ok steph
13:47:48 [steph]
Raphael: i got lots of information from ????? about similar agriculture system
13:47:56 [betty]
q+
13:48:06 [steph]
we are not really on market prices, but on business matchings
13:48:10 [steph]
quite different
13:48:26 [steph]
ken: i've some examples i will send it to you
13:48:56 [steph]
ken: public info you received ?
13:49:04 [steph]
raphael: will share it when finished
13:49:47 [steph]
ack Lauri
13:49:48 [Adesina]
ok
13:49:50 [Raphael]
www.fara-africa.org
13:50:38 [steph]
Lauri: if you need to have access to phones characteristics .mobi have a free database
13:50:42 [kiwanja]
there's also a database of mobile devices and specs at WURFL
13:50:49 [steph]
q+ to say that the characteristic is not enough
13:50:56 [kiwanja]
(not sure if this is the same thing as what Lauri is talking about)
13:51:00 [Adesina]
FARA, backed by Gates Foundation?
13:51:16 [steph]
Lauri: the last nobel prize from finland worked a lot in Africa
13:51:32 [steph]
he visited liberia 2 months ago
13:51:44 [Adesina]
Attasari?
13:51:49 [steph]
yes
13:51:53 [Adesina]
ok
13:53:20 [steph]
Lauri: other area like cloths makers are potential
13:54:42 [kiwanja]
(Nice to see you here, Mira! Welcome)
13:54:58 [Adesina]
Hello Mira
13:55:28 [steph]
Raphael: the one i found was C119
13:55:55 [Adesina]
what is C119?
13:56:03 [steph]
Nicolas: at m4d, Mr Denton from GSMA has plenty of data about Africa.
13:56:07 [steph]
we should ask them
13:56:24 [Adesina]
Yes, GSMA has lots of information
13:56:27 [steph]
Lauri: on .mobi there are such info
13:56:29 [kiwanja]
c119 (or c188) was the phone which 'won' the Emerging Market Handset (EMH) competition run by the GSMA three years ago (?)
13:56:35 [steph]
ack betty
13:56:40 [Adesina]
Even on thier website. www.gsma.org
13:56:46 [kiwanja]
sorry - c118
13:57:00 [Adesina]
ok, the one form Motorola?
13:57:04 [kiwanja]
yes
13:57:08 [steph]
betty: user interface ? what is the current tech you are using between voice and data to cope with illiteracy
13:57:09 [Adesina]
ok,
13:57:41 [steph]
rapahel: i cannot comment, very early phase on that point the choice of tehcnology is not done yet
13:57:43 [Adesina]
Any information on this 3G phone for all by LG?
13:58:00 [kiwanja]
Adesina: It's a bit like this - http://www.kiwanja.net/gallery/handsets/kiwanja_handsets_23.jpg
13:58:03 [steph]
betty: are you planning to use camera phone ?
13:58:30 [steph]
raphael: cannot answer
13:58:34 [steph]
q?
13:58:37 [Adesina]
GSMA is also in support of this project
13:58:48 [steph]
ack me
13:58:48 [Zakim]
steph, you wanted to say that the characteristic is not enough
13:59:12 [steph]
Lauri: one year ago we did a demo at unesco
13:59:21 [steph]
using lowest end phones
13:59:24 [steph]
very successfull
13:59:47 [steph]
very low-cost phones includes enough to have advanced apps for video, graphic,...
13:59:51 [betty]
q+
14:00:06 [Raphael]
q+
14:00:44 [steph]
Betty: interesting unesco project, could-you send info ?
14:00:48 [Adesina]
Tapan Parikh work in India using mobile phone camera for document processing in rural areas could be useful
14:00:56 [steph]
ACTION: Lauri to send info about unesco project
14:01:16 [steph]
ack betty
14:01:27 [Adesina]
q+
14:01:28 [steph]
Lauri: Library of congress was part of the project
14:01:40 [steph]
zakim, clode the queue
14:01:40 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'clode the queue', steph
14:01:43 [steph]
zakim, close the queue
14:01:43 [Zakim]
ok, steph, the speaker queue is closed
14:01:43 [Arun]
Tapan Parikh's work uses printed bar code to integrate paper forms with online systems
14:02:01 [betty]
Thank you very much Lauri & Adesina.
14:02:06 [NicolasC]
all, I have to run another meeting. Look forward to reading the minutes
14:02:25 [Adesina]
Nicolas, your e-mail pls
14:02:48 [steph]
Rapahel: in liberia, some people told us that we have to come with some phones, but the system has to work on all phones
14:03:02 [steph]
we didn't see people using camera
14:03:08 [steph]
and the screen were vbery bad quality
14:03:24 [Adesina]
I met the chap at Easyfone focussed on recyling high end phones into Africa, he couls be useful here
14:03:38 [steph]
for the moment, we are looking only at text and voice
14:03:40 [betty]
Thanks Arun. I'm stydying Tapan Parikh's project & HSTP as well.
14:03:45 [NicolasC]
nicolas.chevrollier@tno.nl
14:04:01 [Adesina]
what is HSTP
14:04:10 [Arun]
Welcome. We are working with Tapan on a project.
14:04:18 [Adesina]
Nic: thanks
14:04:22 [Arun]
HSTP stands for Hyperspeech Transfer Protocol.
14:05:02 [Arun]
http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/research_people.nsf/pages/arun_kumar.pubs.html/$FILE/ht07.pdf
14:05:03 [betty]
HSTP is cool. I'd like to discuss it more with Arun.
14:05:13 [Adesina]
ok thanks
14:05:34 [Raphael]
thanks a lot for all comments!
14:05:57 [Zakim]
-Nicolas
14:06:17 [Zakim]
-steph
14:06:19 [Zakim]
-Ken
14:06:20 [Zakim]
-Lauri
14:06:21 [Zakim]
-Mira
14:06:22 [Zakim]
-Raphael
14:06:27 [Zakim]
-Evan
14:06:29 [steph]
ACTION: raphael to send a summary of the project review in liberia
14:06:31 [Arun]
Bye all. Hv a Happy New Year !
14:06:33 [Raphael]
bonnes fêtes
14:06:36 [kiwanja]
Thanks!
14:06:38 [Zakim]
-betty
14:06:40 [Adesina]
Happy new
14:06:41 [steph]
bonne fetes too !
14:06:50 [steph]
Next meeting January 5th 2009
14:06:53 [steph]
adjourned
14:06:54 [Adesina]
will like tompresent on mHealth in the new year, sTEPH
14:06:58 [betty]
Bye everybody. Thanks for the nice discussion.
14:06:59 [steph]
zakim, draft minutes
14:06:59 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'draft minutes', steph
14:07:11 [steph]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:07:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/15-mw4d-minutes.html steph
14:07:16 [steph]
adesina ?
14:07:38 [steph]
you want to present your project on hte 5th ?
14:08:01 [Adesina]
yES, aDESINA
14:08:17 [Adesina]
some projects from developing countries on mHealth
14:08:24 [steph]
sounds great
14:08:32 [steph]
i put you in hte agenda of the 5th
14:08:40 [Adesina]
Is there a means of sharing Powerpoint? during teleconference?
14:09:41 [Adesina]
ok
14:10:29 [steph]
adesina, not really but if you send it to the list verybody can access it
14:10:43 [Adesina]
ok then
14:35:01 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, arun, in UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM
14:35:02 [Zakim]
UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM has ended
14:35:06 [Zakim]
Attendees were +0196266aaaa, +95008aabb, steph, betty, +41.22.730.aacc, Raphael, Ken, +31.62.247.aadd, Nicolas, +91.11.41.29.aaee, arun, +035850558aaff, Lauri, +1.336.413.aagg,
14:35:08 [Zakim]
... Evan, +1.773.440.aahh, Mira
16:25:11 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #mw4d