IRC log of pling on 2008-12-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:52:01 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #pling

12:52:01 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc

12:52:17 [rigo]

RRSAgent, please set log public

13:00:38 [Ashok]

Ashok has joined #pling

13:00:39 [Zakim]

P3P_PLING()8:00AM has now started

13:00:45 [Zakim]

+??P4

13:01:06 [Zakim]

+ +30281039aaaa

13:01:29 [Zakim]

+ +33.9.66.40.aabb

13:01:50 [rigo]

zakim, ??P4 is Renato

13:01:50 [Zakim]

+Renato; got it

13:01:57 [rigo]

zakim, aabb is Giles

13:01:57 [Zakim]

+Giles; got it

13:02:15 [rigo]

zakim, Giles is Rigo

13:02:15 [Zakim]

+Rigo; got it

13:02:19 [Zakim]

+??P8

13:02:24 [rigo]

zakim, aaaa is Giles

13:02:24 [Zakim]

+Giles; got it

13:02:37 [rigo]

zakim, ??P8 is Marco

13:02:37 [Zakim]

+Marco; got it

13:02:46 [rigo]

scribe: Rigo

13:02:53 [rigo]

scribenick: rigo

13:05:09 [Zakim]

+ +49.431.988.aacc

13:05:26 [rigo]

zakim, aacc is JanS

13:05:26 [Zakim]

+JanS; got it

13:05:39 [Zakim]

+ +1.617.324.aadd

13:05:51 [rigo]

zakim, aadd is Ashok

13:05:51 [Zakim]

+Ashok; got it

13:06:13 [rigo]

=================================

13:06:20 [rigo]

zakim, who is here?

13:06:20 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Renato, Giles, Rigo, Marco, JanS, Ashok

13:06:21 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Ashok, RRSAgent, Zakim, rigo, renato, JanS_ULD

13:06:29 [Giles]

Giles has joined #pling

13:06:36 [rigo]

1/ Review previous action points

13:08:23 [rigo]

PLING Recommendations to W3C Media Annotations WG on use of "rights information" (from XMP)

13:08:53 [rigo]

--pending

13:09:09 [rigo]

action: Add PLUS to list of Policy Languages --DONE

13:09:34 [rigo]

action: Discuss "Best Practice" IG Notes for eGov, Social Networks, XACML Performance testing, General Policy Model --pending

13:10:03 [rigo]

this will be main driver for people to look at in 2009

13:10:26 [rigo]

AM: who will do general policy model

13:10:35 [rigo]

RI: this is on my todo list at the moment

13:10:50 [rigo]

...XACML is on Andreas

13:11:15 [rigo]

...social networks is with W3C workshop

13:11:32 [rigo]

RW: position paper that I will submit to the workshop

13:12:21 [rigo]

...representing social graph, we also need attributes

13:13:54 [rigo]

RW: eGov is Jose Manuel Alonso, working with Rigo

13:14:29 [rigo]

GH: W3C invited for workshop in Boston, but W3C not participating

13:14:38 [rigo]

RW: travel restrictions

13:16:39 [rigo]

action: Distribute W3C Social Networking Workshop CFP --DONE

13:17:10 [rigo]

action: Announce Social Networks XG Planning list --PENDING

13:17:24 [rigo]

RI: so far low response, want to encourage more

13:18:37 [rigo]

====================================

13:18:48 [rigo]

Media Annotations Use Case and Requirements

13:19:08 [rigo]

RI: they are looking at XMP trying to put into W3C standard...

13:19:33 [rigo]

...wanted to look us into rights information, it is in the PDF linked from the agenda, page 3

13:19:56 [rigo]

...we as PLING can recommend rights information that we think it is useful

13:20:06 [rigo]

...up to us to make recommendation

13:20:50 [rigo]

...sent us use cases, but not of great detail, list of things like sharing content, combine stuff, should be aware of rights

13:21:13 [rigo]

...6.4 they mention PLING, they want to get feedback from us

13:21:55 [rigo]

RW: was present at their meeting, ran into an argument

13:22:13 [rigo]

...they had basic rights language, also expectation about

13:22:25 [rigo]

...we discouraged enforcement and pointed to ODRL

13:22:54 [rigo]

...asked them to add one attribute and they did refuse

13:23:17 [rigo]

...asked them to add one field with fulll URI to connect to ODRL or other policy

13:23:50 [rigo]

RW and AM agree that we should make noise about this

13:24:07 [rigo]

because it cuts them off of any policy considerations

13:24:42 [rigo]

AM: W3C WG called POWDER, it is also doing media annotations

13:26:37 [rigo]

GH: what about ID3

13:26:42 [Giles]

http://www.id3.org/

13:27:00 [rigo]

RW: should hint media WG to it

13:28:21 [rigo]

action: Renato to send contacts of media annotations to Giles

13:28:34 [rigo]

action: Giles sent hint to ID3 to media annotations WG

13:30:59 [rigo]

RI: xmpRights:WebStatement would do the trick for URI

13:31:21 [rigo]

RW: sufficient to connect ODRL policy?

13:31:42 [rigo]

RI: they want to link to a full blown policy language

13:32:06 [rigo]

...don't know whether they just want to stamp XMP or really extend

13:32:30 [rigo]

xmpRights:Certificate

13:32:38 [rigo]

xmpRights:WebStatement

13:32:55 [rigo]

RW: unclear how they manage access control

13:33:09 [rigo]

GH: doesn't tell you much at all

13:33:21 [rigo]

RI: looks rather poor,

13:33:31 [rigo]

GH: no kind of certificate

13:33:45 [rigo]

RI: marked boolean, meaning is unclear

13:34:13 [rigo]

AM: if we asked them to add some examples of how this properties are used.

13:35:07 [rigo]

action: RI to pester XMP group about more examples on page 31 spec thing and extensions

13:35:41 [rigo]

================================================

13:38:36 [rigo]

Review of Wiki Activities

13:39:02 [rigo]

RI: PLUS policy language was added

13:39:26 [rigo]

RW: added interesting case about german data records

13:40:21 [rigo]

Jan: not involved in that case, small callcenters collected financial information and customer relation data

13:40:35 [rigo]

...nobody really surprised, could have happened everywhere

13:40:57 [rigo]

...even if you try to stop that leak there will be other leaks

13:41:03 [rigo]

...it is really no surprise

13:41:31 [rigo]

MC: increasing awareness on data linkage from industry and governments

13:42:02 [rigo]

...activities to review data protection regulation, increased awareness that we can't go on like this

13:42:33 [rigo]

...people from google and MS are asked to review to provide ways to mitigate the situation

13:42:57 [rigo]

...will send link by email to the mailing list

13:43:19 [rigo]

action: Marco to send link about review of data protection to mailing list

13:43:42 [rigo]

GH: I asked last time and got response that they do not want to open that can of worms

13:44:31 [rigo]

MC: what is the perspective on high level of enforceable policies etc...

13:45:04 [rigo]

==========================================

13:46:24 [rigo]

Events: IEEE 2009 privacy

13:46:52 [rigo]

MC: focusing on policy from different perspectives, not only policy languages

13:47:10 [rigo]

...call for participation is out, linked it from PLING homepage

13:47:28 [rigo]

....some people in IEEE may be interested in PLING too

13:47:41 [rigo]

action: Marco to tell IEEE people about PLING

13:47:57 [rigo]

RI: MC is the chair of this major event

13:49:11 [rigo]

RW: link position paper from PLING once they come online on social networking ws

13:49:30 [rigo]

RI: everybody send information about events to PLING list

13:49:38 [rigo]

==========================================

13:49:42 [rigo]

Liaisons:

13:49:55 [rigo]

1/ SC 27 WG 5

13:50:26 [rigo]

RW: asked back to Kai Rannenberg, sent out liaison request in September and had not heard back

13:50:44 [rigo]

... Kai reported that they haven't received the information

13:51:32 [rigo]

Jan: was on the meeting, can't recall having had it on the table. May be processed in Beijing in May 2009..

13:51:57 [rigo]

...ongoing in three areas, identity management, architecture and framework..

13:52:17 [rigo]

...put in extensions to allow for later plug in for policy work...

13:52:24 [rigo]

...Beijing will just in time...

13:53:18 [rigo]

RI: Primelife

13:53:38 [rigo]

RW: main thing is requirements document for policy language

13:53:57 [rigo]

... this currently in draft, we need permission from the project to publish a snapshot

13:54:28 [rigo]

...once we get permission, we will notify PLING and store it in the wiki for further scrutiny

13:54:42 [rigo]

PICOS:

13:55:23 [rigo]

MC: making progress in policy , work in progress, short overview from policy perspective, likely next week,

13:55:35 [rigo]

...will try to get some update from them.

13:55:35 [Zakim]

-Marco

13:55:38 [Zakim]

-JanS

13:55:49 [rigo]

ODRL:

13:56:12 [renato]

model

13:56:13 [renato]

http://odrl.net/2.0/WD-ODRL-Model.html

13:56:19 [rigo]

RI: ODRL group met one week before PLING F2F, working on a new 2.0 model

13:56:49 [rigo]

...updates to the 2.0 model, conflict management, doing a new version in Jan 09

13:56:59 [rigo]

look at http://odrl.net/

13:57:13 [rigo]

no TLR no concordia

13:58:00 [rigo]

Schedule for 2009, second Wed of the month

13:58:15 [rigo]

RI will go ahead and schedule next 12 calls

13:58:27 [rigo]

action: Renato to schedule calls for 2009

13:58:43 [rigo]

adjourned

13:58:55 [Zakim]

-Ashok

13:58:59 [Zakim]

-Rigo

13:59:00 [Zakim]

-Renato

13:59:00 [Zakim]

P3P_PLING()8:00AM has ended

13:59:01 [rigo]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

13:59:01 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-minutes.html rigo

13:59:02 [Zakim]

Attendees were +30281039aaaa, +33.9.66.40.aabb, Renato, Rigo, Giles, Marco, +49.431.988.aacc, JanS, +1.617.324.aadd, Ashok

13:59:19 [rigo]

zakim, bye

13:59:19 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #pling

13:59:41 [rigo]

RRSAgent, bye

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

I see 10 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-actions.rdf :

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Add PLUS to list of Policy Languages --DONE [1]

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-09-09

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Discuss "Best Practice" IG Notes for eGov, Social Networks, XACML Performance testing, General Policy Model --pending [2]

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-09-34

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Distribute W3C Social Networking Workshop CFP --DONE [3]

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-16-39

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Announce Social Networks XG Planning list --PENDING [4]

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-17-10

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Renato to send contacts of media annotations to Giles [5]

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-28-21

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Giles sent hint to ID3 to media annotations WG [6]

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-28-34

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: RI to pester XMP group about more examples on page 31 spec thing and extensions [7]

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-35-07

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Marco to send link about review of data protection to mailing list [8]

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-43-19

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Marco to tell IEEE people about PLING [9]

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-47-41

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Renato to schedule calls for 2009 [10]

13:59:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-58-27