12:52:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pling
12:52:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc
12:52:17 <rigo> RRSAgent, please set log public
13:00:38 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #pling
13:00:39 <Zakim> P3P_PLING()8:00AM has now started
13:00:45 <Zakim> +??P4
13:01:06 <Zakim> + +30281039aaaa
13:01:29 <Zakim> + +33.9.66.40.aabb
13:01:50 <rigo> zakim, ??P4 is Renato
13:01:50 <Zakim> +Renato; got it
13:01:57 <rigo> zakim, aabb is Giles
13:01:57 <Zakim> +Giles; got it
13:02:15 <rigo> zakim, Giles is Rigo
13:02:15 <Zakim> +Rigo; got it
13:02:19 <Zakim> +??P8
13:02:24 <rigo> zakim, aaaa is Giles
13:02:24 <Zakim> +Giles; got it
13:02:37 <rigo> zakim, ??P8 is Marco
13:02:37 <Zakim> +Marco; got it
13:02:46 <rigo> scribe: Rigo
13:02:53 <rigo> scribenick: rigo
13:05:09 <Zakim> + +49.431.988.aacc
13:05:26 <rigo> zakim, aacc is JanS
13:05:26 <Zakim> +JanS; got it
13:05:39 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aadd
13:05:51 <rigo> zakim, aadd is Ashok
13:05:51 <Zakim> +Ashok; got it
13:06:13 <rigo> =================================
13:06:20 <rigo> zakim, who is here?
13:06:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Renato, Giles, Rigo, Marco, JanS, Ashok
13:06:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see Ashok, RRSAgent, Zakim, rigo, renato, JanS_ULD
13:06:29 <Giles> Giles has joined #pling
13:06:36 <rigo> 1/ Review previous action points
13:08:23 <rigo> PLING Recommendations to W3C Media Annotations WG on use of "rights information" (from XMP)
13:08:53 <rigo> --pending
13:09:09 <rigo> action: Add PLUS to list of Policy Languages --DONE
13:09:34 <rigo> action: Discuss "Best Practice" IG Notes for eGov, Social Networks, XACML Performance testing, General Policy Model --pending
13:10:03 <rigo> this will be main driver for people to look at in 2009
13:10:26 <rigo> AM: who will do general policy model
13:10:35 <rigo> RI: this is on my todo list at the moment
13:10:50 <rigo> ...XACML is on Andreas
13:11:15 <rigo> ...social networks is with W3C workshop
13:11:32 <rigo> RW: position paper that I will submit to the workshop
13:12:21 <rigo> ...representing social graph, we also need attributes
13:13:54 <rigo> RW: eGov is Jose Manuel Alonso, working with Rigo
13:14:29 <rigo> GH: W3C invited for workshop in Boston, but W3C not participating
13:14:38 <rigo> RW: travel restrictions
13:16:39 <rigo> action: Distribute W3C Social Networking Workshop CFP --DONE
13:17:10 <rigo> action: Announce Social Networks XG Planning list --PENDING
13:17:24 <rigo> RI: so far low response, want to encourage more
13:18:37 <rigo> ====================================
13:18:48 <rigo> Media Annotations Use Case and Requirements
13:19:08 <rigo> RI: they are looking at XMP trying to put into W3C standard...
13:19:33 <rigo> ...wanted to look us into rights information, it is in the PDF linked from the agenda, page 3
13:19:56 <rigo> ...we as PLING can recommend rights information that we think it is useful
13:20:06 <rigo> ...up to us to make recommendation
13:20:50 <rigo> ...sent us use cases, but not of great detail, list of things like sharing content, combine stuff, should be aware of rights
13:21:13 <rigo> ...6.4 they mention PLING, they want to get feedback from us
13:21:55 <rigo> RW: was present at their meeting, ran into an argument
13:22:13 <rigo> ...they had basic rights language, also expectation about
13:22:25 <rigo> ...we discouraged enforcement and pointed to ODRL
13:22:54 <rigo> ...asked them to add one attribute and they did refuse
13:23:17 <rigo> ...asked them to add one field with fulll URI to connect to ODRL or other policy
13:23:50 <rigo> RW and AM agree that we should make noise about this
13:24:07 <rigo> because it cuts them off of any policy considerations
13:24:42 <rigo> AM: W3C WG called POWDER, it is also doing media annotations
13:26:37 <rigo> GH: what about ID3
13:26:42 <Giles> http://www.id3.org/
13:27:00 <rigo> RW: should hint media WG to it
13:28:21 <rigo> action: Renato to send contacts of media annotations to Giles
13:28:34 <rigo> action: Giles sent hint to ID3 to media annotations WG
13:30:59 <rigo> RI: xmpRights:WebStatement would do the trick for URI
13:31:21 <rigo> RW: sufficient to connect ODRL policy?
13:31:42 <rigo> RI: they want to link to a full blown policy language
13:32:06 <rigo> ...don't know whether they just want to stamp XMP or really extend
13:32:30 <rigo> xmpRights:Certificate
13:32:38 <rigo> xmpRights:WebStatement
13:32:55 <rigo> RW: unclear how they manage access control
13:33:09 <rigo> GH: doesn't tell you much at all
13:33:21 <rigo> RI: looks rather poor, 
13:33:31 <rigo> GH: no kind of certificate
13:33:45 <rigo> RI: marked boolean, meaning is unclear
13:34:13 <rigo> AM: if we asked them to add some examples of how this properties are used. 
13:35:07 <rigo> action: RI to pester XMP group about more examples on page 31 spec thing and extensions
13:35:41 <rigo> ================================================
13:38:36 <rigo> Review of Wiki Activities
13:39:02 <rigo> RI: PLUS policy language was added
13:39:26 <rigo> RW: added interesting case about german data records
13:40:21 <rigo> Jan: not involved  in that case, small callcenters collected financial information and customer relation data
13:40:35 <rigo> ...nobody really surprised, could have happened everywhere
13:40:57 <rigo> ...even if you try to stop that leak there will be other leaks
13:41:03 <rigo> ...it is really no surprise
13:41:31 <rigo> MC: increasing awareness on data linkage from industry and governments
13:42:02 <rigo> ...activities to review data protection regulation, increased awareness that we can't go on like this
13:42:33 <rigo> ...people from google and MS are asked to review to provide ways to mitigate the situation
13:42:57 <rigo> ...will send link by email to the mailing list
13:43:19 <rigo> action: Marco to send link about review of data protection to mailing list
13:43:42 <rigo> GH: I asked last time and got response that they do not want to open that can of worms
13:44:31 <rigo> MC: what is the perspective on high level of enforceable policies etc...
13:45:04 <rigo> ==========================================
13:46:24 <rigo> Events: IEEE 2009 privacy
13:46:52 <rigo> MC: focusing on policy from different perspectives, not only policy languages
13:47:10 <rigo> ...call for participation is out, linked it from PLING homepage
13:47:28 <rigo> ....some people in IEEE may be interested in PLING too
13:47:41 <rigo> action: Marco to tell IEEE people about PLING
13:47:57 <rigo> RI: MC is the chair of this major event
13:49:11 <rigo> RW: link position paper from PLING once they come online on social networking ws
13:49:30 <rigo> RI: everybody send information about events to PLING list
13:49:38 <rigo> ==========================================
13:49:42 <rigo> Liaisons:
13:49:55 <rigo> 1/ SC 27 WG 5
13:50:26 <rigo> RW: asked back to Kai Rannenberg, sent out liaison request in September and had not heard back
13:50:44 <rigo> ... Kai reported that they haven't received the information
13:51:32 <rigo> Jan: was on the meeting, can't recall having had it on the table. May be processed in Beijing in May 2009..
13:51:57 <rigo> ...ongoing in three areas, identity management, architecture and framework.. 
13:52:17 <rigo> ...put in extensions to allow for later plug in for policy work...
13:52:24 <rigo> ...Beijing will just in time...
13:53:18 <rigo> RI: Primelife
13:53:38 <rigo> RW: main thing is requirements document for policy language
13:53:57 <rigo> ... this currently in draft, we need permission from the project to publish a snapshot
13:54:28 <rigo> ...once we get permission, we will notify PLING and store it in the wiki for further scrutiny
13:54:42 <rigo> PICOS: 
13:55:23 <rigo> MC: making progress in policy , work in progress, short overview from policy perspective, likely next week, 
13:55:35 <rigo> ...will try to get some update from them. 
13:55:35 <Zakim> -Marco
13:55:38 <Zakim> -JanS
13:55:49 <rigo> ODRL: 
13:56:12 <renato> model 
13:56:13 <renato> http://odrl.net/2.0/WD-ODRL-Model.html
13:56:19 <rigo> RI: ODRL group met one week before PLING F2F, working on a new 2.0 model
13:56:49 <rigo> ...updates to the 2.0 model, conflict management, doing a new version in Jan 09
13:56:59 <rigo> look at http://odrl.net/ 
13:57:13 <rigo> no TLR no concordia
13:58:00 <rigo> Schedule for 2009, second Wed of the month
13:58:15 <rigo> RI will go ahead and schedule next 12 calls
13:58:27 <rigo> action: Renato to schedule calls for 2009
13:58:43 <rigo> adjourned
13:58:55 <Zakim> -Ashok
13:58:59 <Zakim> -Rigo
13:59:00 <Zakim> -Renato
13:59:00 <Zakim> P3P_PLING()8:00AM has ended
13:59:01 <rigo> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:59:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-minutes.html rigo
13:59:02 <Zakim> Attendees were +30281039aaaa, +33.9.66.40.aabb, Renato, Rigo, Giles, Marco, +49.431.988.aacc, JanS, +1.617.324.aadd, Ashok
13:59:19 <rigo> zakim, bye
13:59:19 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pling
13:59:41 <rigo> RRSAgent, bye
13:59:41 <RRSAgent> I see 10 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-actions.rdf :
13:59:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Add PLUS to list of Policy Languages --DONE [1]
13:59:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-09-09
13:59:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Discuss "Best Practice" IG Notes for eGov, Social Networks, XACML Performance testing, General Policy Model --pending [2]
13:59:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-09-34
13:59:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Distribute W3C Social Networking Workshop CFP --DONE [3]
13:59:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-16-39
13:59:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Announce Social Networks XG Planning list --PENDING [4]
13:59:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-17-10
13:59:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Renato to send contacts of media annotations to Giles [5]
13:59:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-28-21
13:59:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Giles sent hint to ID3 to media annotations WG [6]
13:59:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-28-34
13:59:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: RI to pester XMP group about more examples on page 31 spec thing and extensions [7]
13:59:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-35-07
13:59:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Marco to send link about review of data protection to mailing list [8]
13:59:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-43-19
13:59:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Marco to tell IEEE people about PLING [9]
13:59:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-47-41
13:59:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Renato to schedule calls for 2009 [10]
13:59:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-pling-irc#T13-58-27