IRC log of mediaann on 2008-12-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

08:20:25 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mediaann
08:20:25 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-mediaann-irc
08:20:30 [fsasaki]
meeting: MAWG f2f
08:20:38 [fsasaki]
chair: Daniel, Joakim
08:20:51 [fsasaki]
scribe: various
08:21:36 [tobiasb]
tobiasb has joined #mediaann
08:22:30 [Zakim]
IA_MAWG()3:00AM has now started
08:22:39 [Zakim]
+ +329331aaaa
08:25:32 [fsasaki]
topic: liaisons
08:27:06 [fsasaki]
daniel presents ITU-T and MPEG liaisons. We sent letters to both groups. We will contact them again when we have public drafts, asking for review
08:27:34 [joakim]
joakim has joined #mediaann
08:29:46 [fsasaki]
topic: mapping of formats
08:29:50 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Format_mapping
08:29:56 [daniel]
daniel has joined #mediaann
08:30:50 [joakim]
felix presents the "Feature Document" explaining the mapping of formats
08:31:21 [joakim]
The cells should describe the relations (1:1, same as, equvalent etc.)
08:36:34 [davy]
davy has joined #mediaann
08:39:03 [joakim]
joakim has joined #mediaann
08:48:00 [tobiasb]
http://developer.yahoo.com/searchmonkey/smguide/SearchMonkey-Media-overview.html
08:48:12 [cpoppe]
cpoppe has joined #mediaann
08:48:16 [tobiasb]
http://digitalbazaar.com/media/video
08:49:07 [daniel]
VRA: http://www.vraweb.org/projects/vracore4/index.html
08:51:35 [joakim]
joakim has joined #mediaann
08:51:40 [cpoppe]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/XGR-vocabularies/
08:57:03 [VeroniqueM]
is the presentation in the XGR-vocabularies enough or would it be useful to have a more detailed review of the properties that could be useful for our usecases?
08:57:14 [VeroniqueM]
about VRA, I mean
08:58:59 [fsasaki]
about veronique 's question: we want to be detailed in the review, always using XMP as means of comparison
08:59:09 [tobiasb]
http://www.loc.gov/standards/mets/
09:11:21 [fsasaki]
agenda: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_Ghentf2f_2008
09:11:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
09:11:54 [fsasaki]
topic: feature table discussion
09:13:04 [daniel]
Timeline for the review of format mapping : 20th of January
09:16:47 [fsasaki]
s/use cases & requirements doc/
09:20:51 [cpoppe]
cpoppe has joined #mediaann
09:22:42 [barbara]
barbara has joined #mediaann
09:37:14 [cgi-irc]
cgi-irc has joined #mediaann
09:37:24 [fsasaki]
fsasaki has joined #mediaann
09:37:50 [cgi-irc]
cgi-irc has left #mediaann
09:39:48 [daniel]
http://dewey.at.northwestern.edu/ppad2/documents/help/video.html
09:40:14 [cgi-irc]
cgi-irc has joined #mediaann
09:41:56 [Gui]
Gui has joined #mediaann
09:47:45 [Zakim]
+[VrijeUni]
09:48:13 [VeroniqueM]
zakim [VrijeUni] is me
10:02:43 [fsasaki]
fsasaki has joined #mediaann
10:03:49 [daniel]
API discussion and Feature table discussion will take place in this morining session.
10:04:13 [fsasaki]
scribe: daniel
10:04:31 [daniel]
UC&Req. discussion is in afternoon session.
10:05:06 [daniel]
format mapping can be reference to design our API architecture
10:06:10 [joakim]
joakim has joined #mediaann
10:06:47 [daniel]
testing suite for API interoperability
10:08:18 [daniel]
general approach (e.g. dc) is firat, and more specific is accordingly seems useful approach
10:08:22 [fsasaki]
me http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-api-1.0/mediaont-api-1.0.html
10:09:34 [Victor]
Victor has joined #mediaann
10:09:49 [daniel]
Joakim: how to do API test without any specific description ?
10:09:56 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/
10:18:08 [daniel]
to move the draft to the standard publication, WG should have a test and interoperability among different implementations
10:19:22 [daniel]
To survive in the real market, our API and spec. should be as light as we can.
10:21:25 [daniel]
after each implemtation, they should give the result of their implementations to the WG
10:21:53 [daniel]
reference: http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-api-1.0/mediaont-api-1.0.html
10:23:52 [daniel]
Felix: don't want to just focus on RDF format for our specification.
10:24:49 [daniel]
Victor: in RDF, basic model and extended model can be used
10:30:18 [daniel]
the scope of our work does not to define a new metadata, but propose a interoperable working between the existing metadata.
10:33:37 [VeroniqueM]
"interoperable working between the existing metadata" has still to be expressed under one label, no?
10:34:20 [VeroniqueM]
which can mean to use one standard as the reference or to have generic "terms" that point to the constructs of different standards, maybe?
10:36:04 [VeroniqueM]
I think that it would be unfair to take one standard as The reference
10:36:34 [VeroniqueM]
but of course it makes sense to use a standard as first reference model, like was decided for XMP
10:36:36 [tobiasb]
what do you mean with unfair?
10:37:00 [VeroniqueM]
well, that would promote one standard as The standard
10:37:11 [VeroniqueM]
this is not what we want, right?
10:37:16 [daniel]
in room, as of today, they are reaching to the XMP conclusion as a core reference
10:37:24 [VeroniqueM]
yes
10:37:41 [VeroniqueM]
but do we use the XMP terminology for our core ontology?
10:37:54 [VeroniqueM]
and link other formats to this one
10:38:12 [VeroniqueM]
or define a more generic layer that points to XMP and others?
10:38:26 [VeroniqueM]
this is basically ma question :)
10:38:27 [daniel]
Felix is now drawing on the board in terms of the existing spec relationship
10:38:47 [tobiasb]
this is a good question, veronique. I will raise it in the meeting.
10:43:11 [wbailer]
wbailer has joined #mediaann
10:49:28 [daniel]
confirmance is not part of standard, but also important task within WG
10:51:41 [daniel]
Felix: saying about confirmance example: http://www.w3.org/TR/its/#conformance
10:55:11 [daniel]
tough summary: confirmance test is needed to increase the quality of draft toward standard, not not parts of standard official description. all features in confirmance test will be totally based on the format mapping analysis
10:56:57 [fsasaki]
example of ontology testing at http://www.w3.org/2003/08/owl-systems/test-results-out#sum
10:59:07 [fsasaki]
another conformance example at http://www.w3.org/TR/dcontology/#conformance
11:01:44 [daniel]
yes
11:02:59 [daniel]
Chris: not use XMP name itself, but use a new changed name for that. That's acceptable.
11:04:03 [daniel]
This is renaminig issue, for example: MPEG
11:05:21 [VeroniqueM]
what do you mean with ": MPEG"?
11:06:28 [daniel]
Veronique, our rough summary is to refer to XMP, and rename it later.
11:06:56 [daniel]
next item: feature table discussion: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/FeaturesTable
11:07:27 [fsasaki]
topic: feature table discussion
11:11:42 [joakim]
Alt for unstructured is to repeat ambigous fields
11:17:12 [fsasaki]
action: Felix to check with Adobe about what properties of XMP are actually used
11:17:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-49 - Check with Adobe about what properties of XMP are actually used [on Felix Sasaki - due 2008-12-17].
11:25:52 [jackjansen]
jackjansen has joined #mediaann
11:25:56 [jackjansen]
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=gent+media+fragments&word2=gent+media+annotations
11:26:00 [jackjansen]
jackjansen has left #mediaann
11:26:20 [Silvia]
Silvia has joined #mediaann
11:26:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
11:26:48 [Zakim]
-Veronique
11:42:57 [raphael]
raphael has joined #mediaann
11:49:59 [Silvia]
Silvia has left #mediaann
12:22:18 [Zakim]
-conference-room
12:22:20 [Zakim]
IA_MAWG()3:00AM has ended
12:22:21 [Zakim]
Attendees were +329331aaaa, conference-room, [VrijeUni], Veronique
12:24:28 [vmalais]
vmalais has joined #mediaann
12:35:14 [Zakim]
IA_MAWG()3:00AM has now started
12:35:21 [Zakim]
+Veronique
12:36:47 [Zakim]
-Veronique
12:36:49 [Zakim]
IA_MAWG()3:00AM has ended
12:36:49 [Zakim]
Attendees were Veronique
12:42:06 [VeroniqueM]
VeroniqueM has joined #mediaann
12:44:20 [Zakim]
IA_MAWG()3:00AM has now started
12:44:27 [Zakim]
+Veronique
12:54:37 [daniel]
daniel has joined #mediaann
12:59:39 [daniel]
we will start 2 PM for UC&Req document
13:06:16 [joakim]
joakim has joined #mediaann
13:06:45 [joakim]
topic: use case and requirements
13:07:19 [fsasaki]
http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-req/mediaont-req.html
13:08:26 [joakim]
zakim, code
13:08:26 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'code', joakim
13:08:40 [joakim]
zakim, code?
13:08:40 [Zakim]
the conference code is 6294 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), joakim
13:08:50 [wonsuk]
* now daniel check that.
13:09:57 [Victor]
#me tests zakim...
13:10:29 [Zakim]
+conference-room
13:11:31 [daniel]
Felix: illustrating on the UC & Req. document
13:12:43 [daniel]
taking a look at Introduction section. any comments on that ?
13:15:20 [daniel]
Chris: what definition of video object ?
13:15:46 [daniel]
s/video object/media object
13:17:32 [daniel]
our scope is mainly focusing on video, but also deal with others media types
13:17:41 [fsasaki]
The scope is mainly video media objects, but we take also other media objects into account if their metadata information is related to video.
13:20:00 [fsasaki]
The development of the requirements has three major inputs: Use cases, analysis of existing standards, and a description of canonical media processes.
13:25:37 [tobiasb]
Interoperability: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/XGR-interoperability/
13:25:59 [tobiasb]
Vocabularies: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/XGR-vocabularies/
13:33:04 [VeroniqueM]
I can work on 2.5
13:33:30 [tobiasb]
Werner: Can work toegether with Veronique on 2.5
13:33:46 [VeroniqueM]
ok, perfect!
13:34:41 [fsasaki]
action: Werner and Veronique and Hui to update 2.5 following the pattern of e.g. 2.6, 2.7 etc. - due to 2008-12-17
13:34:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-50 - and Veronique and Hui to update 2.5 following the pattern of e.g. 2.6, 2.7 etc. [on Werner Bailer - due 2008-12-10].
13:36:53 [fsasaki]
s/2.5/2.4 (cultural heritage uc)/
13:48:42 [fsasaki]
action: Tobias to make a drawing to make clear what we are not doing
13:48:43 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-51 - Make a drawing to make clear what we are not doing [on Tobias Bürger - due 2008-12-17].
13:50:13 [tobiasb]
Tobias to make the drawing based on Felix's drawing on the board
13:51:23 [fsasaki]
action: Jean-Pierre to make "Recommendation across different media types - Description / Example" part clearer
13:51:23 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-52 - Make \"Recommendation across different media types - Description / Example\" part clearer [on Jean-Pierre EVAIN - due 2008-12-17].
13:55:15 [daniel]
Elements of an EmotionML 1.0 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/emotion/XGR-emotionml-20081120/
14:01:04 [daniel]
Annotating content with location information A group of friends is hiking through the Scottish highlands. Some of them write short notes and take pictures at various points throughout the journey and store them using a Web application that can work offline on their hand-held devices. Whenever they add new content, the application automatically tags it with location data from the Geolocation API (which, in turn, uses the on-board GPS device). Every time t
14:01:19 [daniel]
http://dev.w3.org/geo/api/spec-source.html
14:04:49 [daniel]
once getting our UC&Req document, we can send it out to the Geolocation WG for their official reference
14:05:20 [daniel]
Annotating content with location information use case @ Geolocation is related to our UC 2.6 Life Log
14:16:26 [tobiasb]
All: The video use case is too general and should be revised
14:16:41 [VeroniqueM]
should it be kept at all?
14:17:05 [tobiasb]
yes - some parts will be redistributed to other parts of the document
14:17:11 [VeroniqueM]
ok, yes
14:17:29 [VeroniqueM]
this is what I meant: it is not a use case in itself :)
14:17:30 [tobiasb]
some very general parts will be moved to the introduction
14:17:38 [VeroniqueM]
ok
14:17:39 [fsasaki]
action: Joakim to revise the introduction, using material from the "video" UC section
14:17:39 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-53 - Revise the introduction, using material from the \"video\" UC section [on Joakim Söderberg - due 2008-12-17].
14:18:05 [tobiasb]
The video use case will be removed then
14:19:26 [VeroniqueM]
the references to the standards in the intro section have been removed, I have a list of these references, to include to the introduction too
14:19:37 [VeroniqueM]
shall I send them to the list?
14:20:15 [VeroniqueM]
or integrate them after Joakim's modifications?
14:21:52 [tobiasb]
we will put a reference to the multimedia semantics incubator group deliverable about vocabularies instead of listing all the standards.. the deliverable contains most of them. But it would be useful if you put your list in the Wiki.
14:22:17 [VeroniqueM]
ok, will do!
14:23:31 [tobiasb]
this would be great, because you had 2,3 formats mentioned which are not in the vocabularies deliverable which I mentioned before.
14:24:36 [VeroniqueM]
there was one format mentionned in the doc that I could not find... I'll have to check out in the mailing list what was meant by this last ref
14:25:30 [tobiasb]
whoch one?
14:26:07 [tobiasb]
s/whoch/which
14:30:01 [VeroniqueM]
I was not sure that the ref for iTunes XML is the correct one
14:32:53 [tobiasb]
I guess that iTunes XML is just a playlist format? Look here: http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd
14:39:01 [Zakim]
-Veronique
14:41:38 [Victor]
someone has made a photo of us...
14:59:18 [daniel]
Veronique, sorry...: here is our photo: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/images/e/e6/MediaAnn-Ghent-200812.JPG
15:05:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
15:06:18 [cpoppe]
cpoppe has joined #mediaann
15:08:13 [chpoppe]
chpoppe has joined #mediaann
15:09:30 [raphael]
raphael has joined #mediaann
15:11:21 [barbara]
barbara has joined #mediaann
15:16:45 [barbara_]
barbara_ has joined #mediaann
15:16:46 [cpoppe]
cpoppe has joined #mediaann
15:17:01 [raphael]
raphael has joined #mediaann
15:20:03 [victor2]
victor2 has joined #mediaann
15:20:12 [fsasaki]
action: Frank to consider revising the "multimedia presentation material" and turn it into a use case following the pattern of the UC & req document
15:20:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-54 - Consider revising the \"multimedia presentation material\" and turn it into a use case following the pattern of the UC & req document [on Frank Nack - due 2008-12-17].
15:20:59 [wonsuk]
wonsuk has joined #mediaann
15:21:42 [joakim]
joakim has joined #mediaann
15:21:47 [fsasaki]
action: Victor to work on imaging life cycle use case and turn it into a use case following the pattern of the UC & req document
15:21:47 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Victor
15:21:57 [fsasaki]
action: Victor2 to work on imaging life cycle use case and turn it into a use case following the pattern of the UC & req document
15:21:57 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Victor2
15:22:20 [wbailer]
wbailer has joined #mediaann
15:22:26 [fsasaki]
action: Víctor to work on imaging life cycle use case and turn it into a use case following the pattern of the UC & req document
15:22:26 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-55 - Work on imaging life cycle use case and turn it into a use case following the pattern of the UC & req document [on Víctor Rodríguez - due 2008-12-17].
15:25:38 [barbara]
barbara has joined #mediaann
15:29:47 [tobiasb]
tobiasb has joined #mediaann
16:05:00 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, conference-room, in IA_MAWG()3:00AM
16:05:04 [Zakim]
IA_MAWG()3:00AM has ended
16:05:05 [Zakim]
Attendees were Veronique, conference-room
16:06:06 [fsasaki]
action: Felix to create text for r06-r11 until Monday and send it to the list
16:06:06 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-56 - Create text for r06-r11 until Monday and send it to the list [on Felix Sasaki - due 2008-12-17].
16:07:46 [daniel]
daniel has joined #mediaann
16:08:05 [fsasaki]
topic: tbd for publication
16:08:11 [daniel]
Felix will fill out req 6 - 11 by next monday and get back to WG for the review
16:08:16 [fsasaki]
daniel to rewrite introduction including video material
16:08:32 [fsasaki]
veronique et al. to revise CH use case
16:08:40 [fsasaki]
felix to write text for r06-r11
16:08:49 [fsasaki]
s/daniel /joakim /
16:09:17 [fsasaki]
Friday next week: send draft to fragments WG
16:09:44 [daniel]
UC and Req text elaboration should be done by middle of next week.
16:10:42 [fsasaki]
give deadline for review from fragment WG until Monday 5th
16:11:25 [fsasaki]
taking feedback into account until Monday 12th
16:11:27 [fsasaki]
publication Monday 19th
16:12:19 [daniel]
meeting wrap-up and AOB before closing
16:13:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
16:13:15 [daniel]
ACTION ITEM: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/open
16:13:15 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - ITEM
16:13:17 [fsasaki]
topic: meeting wrap-up and AOB before closing
16:15:16 [fsasaki]
s/to update 2.5/to update CH UC/
16:15:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
16:15:27 [fsasaki]
getting through AIs
16:15:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
16:16:31 [fsasaki]
another ACTION ITEM: Everybody to update mapping table until January 20th
16:22:35 [davy]
davy has left #mediaann
16:23:31 [victor2]
we said to distribute work in the next conference meeting taking into account that we will not meet in a long time...
16:25:05 [daniel]
thanks everyone for coming and see you in Barcelona on April of 2009 for the next meeting
16:25:25 [daniel]
special thanks to Eric and IBBT people for hosting our excellent meeting
16:26:59 [daniel]
special thanks to Felix for your excellent activities and all efforts on the WG and looking forward to seeing you soon in the W3C
16:27:09 [daniel]
closing the meeting...thanks all
16:27:21 [daniel]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:27:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-mediaann-minutes.html daniel
16:27:32 [VeroniqueM]
exit
16:29:48 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #mediaann
17:18:53 [fsasaki]
fsasaki has joined #mediaann