15:52:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:52:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/09-rif-irc
15:52:17 <ChrisW> zakim, this will be rif
15:52:17 <Zakim> ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
15:52:23 <ChrisW> Chair: Chris Welty
15:52:38 <ChrisW> Meeting: RIF Telecon 9-Dec-08
15:52:55 <ChrisW> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Dec/0058.html
15:53:06 <ChrisW> ChrisW has changed the topic to: 9 Dec RIF Telecon Agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Dec/0058.html
15:53:19 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
15:53:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/09-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
15:53:30 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make logs public
16:00:04 <Harold> Harold has joined #rif
16:00:19 <josb> josb has joined #rif
16:01:18 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
16:01:26 <Zakim> + +39.047.101.aaaa
16:01:42 <StellaMitchell> StellaMitchell has joined #rif
16:01:53 <Zakim> +[IBM]
16:02:10 <ChrisW> zakim, ibm is temporarily me
16:02:10 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
16:02:52 <Zakim> +[IBM]
16:02:55 <StellaMitchell> zakim, ibm is temporarily me
16:02:55 <Zakim> +StellaMitchell; got it
16:03:42 <ChrisW> agenda+ Admin
16:03:55 <ChrisW> agenda+ Liason
16:04:01 <ChrisW> agenda+ Public Comments
16:04:05 <ChrisW> agenda+ Actions
16:04:10 <ChrisW> agenda+ F2F12
16:04:13 <ChrisW> agenda+ UCR
16:04:18 <csma> csma has joined #rif
16:04:19 <ChrisW> agenda+ Publication plans
16:04:30 <ChrisW> agenda+ DTB
16:04:35 <ChrisW> agenda+ Test cases
16:04:38 <ChrisW> agenda+ AOB
16:04:41 <Hassan> Hassan has joined #rif
16:04:44 <Zakim> +Hassan_Ait-Kaci
16:05:14 <Gary_Hallmark> Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
16:05:29 <ChrisW> gary, can you scribe today?
16:05:33 <Zakim> +Christian
16:05:40 <LeoraMorgenstern> LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
16:05:43 <Gary> yes, I can scribe
16:05:46 <ChrisW> tnx
16:05:48 <csma> zakim, mute me
16:05:48 <Zakim> sorry, csma, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:05:51 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:05:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see josb, ChrisW, StellaMitchell, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), Christian
16:06:01 <Zakim> + +1.503.533.aabb
16:06:04 <ChrisW> zakim, Christian is csma
16:06:04 <Zakim> +csma; got it
16:06:08 <csma> zakim, christian is me
16:06:10 <Zakim> sorry, csma, I do not recognize a party named 'christian'
16:06:12 <Zakim> + +1.212.781.aacc
16:06:15 <Gary> zakim, aabb is me
16:06:15 <Zakim> +Gary; got it
16:06:21 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, aacc is me
16:06:21 <Zakim> +LeoraMorgenstern; got it
16:06:22 <ChrisW> Scribe: Gary
16:06:26 <ChrisW> thanks, Gary
16:06:27 <csma> zakim, Christian is me
16:06:27 <Zakim> sorry, csma, I do not recognize a party named 'Christian'
16:06:40 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:06:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see josb, ChrisW, StellaMitchell, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), csma, Gary, LeoraMorgenstern
16:06:45 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:06:57 <ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Dec/att-0023/2-Dec-2008-rif-minutes.html
16:07:04 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes
16:07:08 <csma> zakim, mute me
16:07:08 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
16:07:12 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: Accept last week's minutes
16:07:29 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
16:07:29 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:07:30 <csma> zakim, unmute me
16:07:30 <Zakim> csma should no longer be muted
16:07:36 <ChrisW> zakim, close item 1
16:07:36 <Zakim> agendum 1, Admin, closed
16:07:37 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:07:40 <Zakim> 2. Liason [from ChrisW]
16:07:46 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
16:07:46 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:08:19 <csma> zakim, mute me
16:08:19 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
16:08:36 <sandro> sandro has joined #rif
16:09:22 <Gary> scheduled telcon Thursday noon EST about OWL and RIF to discuss common issues, e.g. OWL compatability, DTB, and OWL RL rules profile, and rdf:text
16:09:38 <Zakim> + +43.158.801.3aadd
16:10:10 <Gary> Jos: OWL 2 compatability will not require much change, but would need to redo last call
16:10:51 <Gary> ... 5 subproposals to decide on
16:10:59 <ChrisW> zakim, list agenda
16:10:59 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:
16:11:00 <Zakim> 2. Liason [from ChrisW]
16:11:00 <Zakim> 3. Public Comments [from ChrisW]
16:11:02 <Zakim> 4. Actions [from ChrisW]
16:11:02 <Zakim> 5. F2F12 [from ChrisW]
16:11:03 <Zakim> 6. UCR [from ChrisW]
16:11:03 <Zakim> 7. Publication plans [from ChrisW]
16:11:04 <Zakim> 8. DTB [from ChrisW]
16:11:05 <Zakim> 9. Test cases [from ChrisW]
16:11:07 <Zakim> 10. AOB [from ChrisW]
16:11:30 <Gary> Sandro: OWL last call drafts published (except OWL Full)
16:12:00 <ChrisW> zakim, close item 2
16:12:00 <Zakim> agendum 2, Liason, closed
16:12:02 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:12:03 <Zakim> 3. Public Comments [from ChrisW]
16:12:10 <ChrisW> zakim, take up item 4
16:12:10 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Actions" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:12:35 <csma> yes
16:13:27 <ChrisW> action: chris to confirm axel's participation for owl telecon
16:13:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-670 - Confirm axel's participation for owl telecon [on Christopher Welty - due 2008-12-16].
16:14:48 <csma> zakim, unmute me
16:14:48 <Zakim> csma should no longer be muted
16:16:11 <Gary> Hassan and Michael reviewed PRD, thank you!
16:16:58 <Gary> Scribe note: consult action tracker for latest action status
16:20:00 <Gary> Hassan will need til after the Holiday's to debug some complex translator issues
16:20:17 <Gary> s/y's/ys
16:20:34 <ChrisW> zakim, list agenda
16:20:34 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda:
16:20:35 <Zakim> 3. Public Comments [from ChrisW]
16:20:36 <Zakim> 4. Actions [from ChrisW]
16:20:37 <Zakim> 5. F2F12 [from ChrisW]
16:20:40 <Zakim> 6. UCR [from ChrisW]
16:20:42 <ChrisW> zakim, close item 4
16:20:44 <Zakim> 7. Publication plans [from ChrisW]
16:20:48 <Zakim> 8. DTB [from ChrisW]
16:20:48 <ChrisW> zakim, take up item 7
16:20:52 <Zakim> 9. Test cases [from ChrisW]
16:20:54 <Zakim> 10. AOB [from ChrisW]
16:21:02 <Zakim> agendum 4, Actions, closed
16:21:06 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:21:08 <Zakim> 3. Public Comments [from ChrisW]
16:21:14 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Publication plans" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:21:31 <ChrisW> #  PROPOSED: Replace in UCR the requirement on Rule language coverage by the following statement: Because of the great diversity of rule languages, no one interchange language is likely to be able to bridge between all. Instead, RIF provides dialects which are each targeted at a cluster of similar rule languages. RIF must allow intra-dialect interoperation, i.e. interoperability between semantically similar rule languages (via interchange of RIF rules) within one
16:21:38 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: Replace in UCR the requirement on Rule language coverage by the following statement: Because of the great diversity of rule languages, no one interchange language is likely to be able to bridge between all. Instead, RIF provides dialects which are each targeted at a cluster of similar rule languages. RIF must allow intra-dialect interoperation, i.e. interoperability between semantically similar rule languages (via interchange of RIF rules) within one di
16:22:18 <csma> zakim, unmute me
16:22:19 <Zakim> csma was not muted, csma
16:22:31 <sandro> 5.1.6 Rule language coverage
16:22:31 <sandro> Because of the great diversity of rule languages, no one interchange language is likely to be able to bridge between all. Instead, RIF provides dialects which are each targeted at a cluster of similar rule languages. Within that cluster, each feature of each rule language will have some degree of commonality with corresponding features of other rule languages in that cluster. The RIF dialect targeting a cluster must support, at a minimum, interchange of rules us
16:22:31 <sandro> ing all the features which are common to all the major rule languages in that cluster. 
16:22:41 <Gary> sandro: above proposal in UCR in 5.1.2
16:22:53 <sandro> 5.1.6 actually
16:22:57 <Gary> s/1.2/1.6
16:25:02 <Gary> chrisw: do we want a new coverage requirement and what wording shall we use?
16:25:07 <Michael_Kifer> Michael_Kifer has joined #rif
16:26:09 <Zakim> + +1.631.833.aaee
16:26:22 <Michael_Kifer> zakim, aaee is me
16:26:22 <Zakim> +Michael_Kifer; got it
16:26:34 <Michael_Kifer> zakim, mute me
16:26:34 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:27:10 <Gary> csma: instead of new req about inter-dialect compatability, we modify the existing req to be about intra- and inter-dialect compatability
16:27:42 <sandro> full test: #  PROPOSED: Replace in UCR the requirement on Rule language coverage by the following statement: Because of the great diversity of rule languages, no one interchange language is likely to be able to bridge between all. Instead, RIF provides dialects which are each targeted at a cluster of similar rule languages. RIF must allow intra-dialect interoperation, i.e. interoperability between semantically similar rule languages (via interchange of RIF rules
16:27:42 <sandro> ) within one dialect, and it should support inter-dialect interoperation, i.e. interoperation between dialects with maximum overlap. 
16:27:54 <Gary> s/test/text
16:28:21 <sandro> #  PROPOSED: Replace in UCR the requirement on Rule language coverage by the following statement: Because of the great diversity of rule languages, no one interchange language is likely to be able to bridge between all. Instead, RIF provides dialects which are each targeted at a cluster of similar rule languages. RIF must allow intra-dialect interoperation, i.e. interoperability between semantically similar rule languages (via interchange of RIF rules) within on
16:28:22 <sandro> e dialect, and it should support inter-dialect interoperation, i.e. interoperation between dialects with maximum overlap. 
16:28:37 <sandro> #  PROPOSED: Replace in UCR the requirement on Rule language coverage by the following statement: Because of the great diversity of rule languages, no one interchange language is likely to be able to bridge between all. Instead, RIF provides dialects which are each targeted at a cluster of similar rule languages. RIF must allow intra-dialect interoperation, i.e. interoperability between semantically similar rule languages (via interchange of RIF rules) within on
16:28:37 <sandro> e dialect, and it should support inter-dialect interoperation, i.e. interoperation between dialects with maximum overlap. 
16:28:57 <sandro> PROPOSED: Replace in UCR the requirement on Rule language coverage by the following statement: Because of the great diversity of rule languages, no one interchange language is likely to be able to bridge between all. Instead, RIF provides dialects which are each targeted at a cluster of similar rule languages. RIF must allow intra-dialect interoperation, i.e. interoperability between semantically similar rule languages (via interchange of RIF rules) within one d
16:28:57 <sandro> ialect, and it should support inter-dialect interoperation, i.e. interoperation between dialects with maximum overlap. 
16:29:02 <sandro> _+1
16:29:03 <sandro> +1
16:29:31 <Gary> no objection to this change
16:29:32 <sandro> RESOLVED: Replace in UCR the requirement on Rule language coverage by the following statement: Because of the great diversity of rule languages, no one interchange language is likely to be able to bridge between all. Instead, RIF provides dialects which are each targeted at a cluster of similar rule languages. RIF must allow intra-dialect interoperation, i.e. interoperability between semantically similar rule languages (via interchange of RIF rules) within one d
16:29:32 <sandro> ialect, and it should support inter-dialect interoperation, i.e. interoperation between dialects with maximum overlap. 
16:30:08 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/UCR as WD, given the above change
16:30:17 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
16:30:20 <Harold> +1 (NRC)
16:30:25 <Hassan> +1 (ILOG)
16:30:29 <Michael_Kifer> +1 self
16:30:32 <josb> +1 (FUB)
16:30:35 <Gary> +1 (Oracle)
16:30:35 <LeoraMorgenstern> + 1 (IBM) (I'm assuming this is not last call for UCR)
16:30:44 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer
16:30:44 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/12/09-rif-irc#T16-30-44
16:30:48 <csma> zakim, mute me
16:30:48 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
16:30:55 <ChrisW> zakim, who is here?
16:30:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see josb, ChrisW, StellaMitchell, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), csma (muted), Gary, LeoraMorgenstern, Sandro, +43.158.801.3aadd, Michael_Kifer (muted)
16:30:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see Michael_Kifer, sandro, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, Hassan, csma, StellaMitchell, josb, Harold, RRSAgent, Zakim, ChrisW, trackbot
16:31:11 <sandro> RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/UCR as WD, given the above change
16:32:19 <Hassan> X^P
16:32:36 <AdrianP> AdrianP has joined #rif
16:33:13 <Gary> leora: missing Core editors notes
16:33:58 <Gary> ... in 3 or 4 places in the Core draft
16:34:04 <Zakim> +??P1
16:34:14 <AdrianP> Zakim, ??P1 is me
16:34:14 <Zakim> +AdrianP; got it
16:34:38 <AdrianP> Zakim, mute me
16:34:38 <Zakim> AdrianP should now be muted
16:35:07 <Zakim> -AdrianP
16:35:22 <Gary> ... will draft email about missing editors notes NOW
16:35:49 <csma> zakim, unmute me
16:35:49 <Zakim> csma should no longer be muted
16:37:22 <Gary> csma: some PRD edits yet to be done.  Will consolidate into one list so we can vote
16:37:38 <Zakim> +??P1
16:37:58 <AdrianP> AdrianP has joined #rif
16:38:20 <Gary> jos: DTB has one pending change
16:38:26 <Zakim> -??P1
16:38:52 <josb> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Dec/0045.html
16:40:23 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: publish DTB as a next WD after changes listed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Dec/0045.html
16:40:54 <Gary> DTB change is editorial clarification about argument type checking
16:40:59 <josb> +1 (FUB)
16:41:06 <Hassan> +1 (ILOG)
16:41:12 <Gary> +1 (Oracle)
16:41:18 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
16:41:26 <LeoraMorgenstern> +1 (IBM)
16:41:45 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
16:41:45 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/12/09-rif-irc#T16-41-45
16:41:59 <Harold> +1 (NRC)
16:42:12 <Michael_Kifer> +1
16:42:27 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: publish DTB as a next WD after changes listed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Dec/0045.html
16:43:01 <ChrisW> zakim, take up item 5
16:43:03 <Zakim> agendum 5. "F2F12" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:44:39 <sandro> ACTION: sandro to make teleconf reservation for F2F12
16:44:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-671 - Make teleconf reservation for F2F12 [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-12-16].
16:45:13 <ChrisW> zakim, take up item 8
16:45:13 <Zakim> agendum 8. "DTB" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:45:21 <ChrisW> zakim, take up item 9
16:45:21 <Zakim> agendum 9. "Test cases" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:45:49 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Category:Proposed
16:46:45 <Gary> chrisw: let's start from W for alphabetic equality
16:47:12 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/UCR_4.7a
16:47:59 <Gary> stella: UCR 4.7a
16:48:18 <Gary> ... demonstrate ontology + rules for greater expressiveness
16:50:09 <Gary> chrisw: repair URL to delete google cache part
16:50:27 <josb> q+
16:50:29 <Gary> ... in SeeAlso part
16:52:31 <Gary> sandro: should include RDF XML
16:53:01 <Gary> ... "real world" examples tend to be very big
16:53:32 <Gary> ... link to separate file containing RDF XML
16:54:11 <Gary> chrisw: could remove unused parts of ontology
16:56:12 <Gary> chrisw: can we assume a translator from more readable OWL presentation syntax to normative RDF XML?
16:57:34 <Hassan> BTW: Stella - the link http://example.org/testOntology.owl is stale (on UCR 4.7a)
16:58:23 <Gary> sandro: requiring an OWL translator for RIF test cases might be too burdensome
16:59:12 <Gary> chrisw: how to summarize this discussion on test case page?
16:59:16 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
16:59:16 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/12/09-rif-irc#T16-59-16
16:59:53 <Gary> sandro: link to minutes using RRSAgent pointer
17:00:26 <josb> it might also be OWL 2.0; not sure
17:00:30 <Gary> chrisw: should use OWL 1.0 or 2.0 syntax, not 1.1
17:02:52 <Gary> sandro: OWL abstract syntax is not machine parsable (in a standard way)
17:03:52 <josb> q-
17:04:03 <Gary> ... a Java API for OWL parsing (called OWL API) may be needed here
17:04:46 <Gary> chrisw: in favor of using functional OWL syntax, but we need a translator
17:05:30 <ChrisW> action: sandro to send email to OWL wg asking about tooling for "functional syntax"
17:05:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-672 - Send email to OWL wg asking about tooling for \"functional syntax\" [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-12-16].
17:05:34 <sandro> action: sandro check on software for parsing OWL2 Functional Syntax, for use with test cases like http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/UCR_4.7a
17:05:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-673 - Check on software for parsing OWL2 Functional Syntax, for use with test cases like http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/UCR_4.7a [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-12-16].
17:05:45 <sandro> action-672 closed
17:05:45 <trackbot> ACTION-672 Send email to OWL wg asking about tooling for "functional syntax" closed
17:06:03 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/UCR_4.1a
17:06:08 <Gary> test case UCR 4.1a
17:07:09 <Gary> stella: this example has guard predicates
17:08:35 <Gary> chrisw: issue of what document is the conclusion in
17:09:00 <josb> it is not in a document
17:09:58 <Gary> sandro: should endorse transforming conclusion to a condition in same doc as premise
17:10:12 <Hassan> q+
17:10:33 <Gary> ... could even have a bundle of test cases in single document
17:10:57 <ChrisW> PASSED() :- <CONCLUSION>
17:11:02 <josb> q+
17:11:51 <Gary> hassan: similar issue to Prolog's default USER file
17:12:19 <josb> q-
17:12:26 <Hassan> q-
17:12:30 <csma> zakim, unmute me
17:12:30 <Zakim> csma was not muted, csma
17:12:56 <csma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Dec/0067.html
17:13:15 <csma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Dec/0066.html
17:13:27 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: Publish next WD of CORE pending changes in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Dec/0067.html
17:14:21 <Michael_Kifer> zakim, unmute me
17:14:21 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
17:14:36 <Gary> csma: some of Hassan's comments really are about BLD, and PRD will wait for their resoution in BLD before uptaking them
17:16:04 <Gary> hassan: most of the substance boils down to "taste", and we should acknowledge that
17:16:46 <Gary> michael: unusual mention "taste" in a standards doc
17:16:59 <Gary> s/mention/to mention/
17:17:14 <Michael_Kifer> zakim, mute me
17:17:16 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
17:18:00 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish Core as WD with changes detailed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Dec/0067.html
17:18:02 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: Publish next WD of CORE pending changes in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Dec/0067.html
17:18:05 <Gary> back to Core
17:18:21 <Harold> Editorial changes done.
17:18:29 <Harold> Eds notes TBD.
17:18:50 <josb> +1 (FUB)
17:18:54 <LeoraMorgenstern> +1 (IBM)
17:18:55 <Gary> +1 (Oracle)
17:18:55 <Hassan> +1 (ILOG)
17:18:57 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
17:19:01 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
17:19:01 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/12/09-rif-irc#T17-19-01
17:19:07 <Michael_Kifer> +1 (self)
17:19:15 <Harold> +1 (NRC)
17:19:23 <sandro> RESOLVED: Publish next WD of CORE pending changes in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Dec/0067.html
17:19:34 <Gary> now PRD
17:19:41 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: Publish next WD of PRD pending changes in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Dec/0066.html
17:19:46 <Hassan> +1 (ILOG)
17:20:00 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
17:20:02 <josb> +1 (FUB)
17:20:04 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
17:20:04 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/12/09-rif-irc#T17-20-04
17:20:12 <Gary> +1 (Oracle)
17:20:36 <LeoraMorgenstern> +1 (IBM)
17:20:39 <Harold> +1 (NRC)
17:20:55 <Michael_Kifer> +1
17:21:04 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: Publish next WD of PRD pending changes in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Dec/0066.html
17:21:19 <Zakim> -csma
17:21:32 <Gary> back to test cases
17:22:07 <ChrisW> PASSED() :- <CONCLUSION>
17:22:40 <Gary> jos: the proposal to add a rule doesn't work because of local name separation, but you could put the added rule in an imported doc
17:23:05 <josb> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Local_Constant
17:23:11 <Hassan> Yes Jos is right - this is exactly what I meant with the "USER" level import
17:23:14 <Zakim> - +43.158.801.3aadd
17:23:15 <Zakim> -josb
17:23:26 <josb> I was dropped 
17:23:28 <josb> will redail
17:23:44 <Michael_Kifer> zakim, unmute me
17:23:44 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
17:24:09 <Zakim> +josb
17:24:19 <Gary> michael: need a protocol that supports query
17:24:44 <Zakim> + +43.158.801.3aaff
17:24:56 <Gary> ... like Hassan mentioned, the interactive session in prolog
17:25:42 <Zakim> -josb
17:25:43 <Zakim> - +43.158.801.3aaff
17:25:55 <Hassan> The issue is one of module scoping - plain and simple (nested name spaces)
17:26:08 <Gary> chrisw: the test cases make one wonder where the prefixes in the conclusion come from
17:26:23 <Zakim> + +039047101aagg
17:26:38 <josb> I suspect there is a problem with the bridge in France; will try the one in Britain
17:26:59 <Zakim> + +43.12.aahh
17:27:05 <Hassan> q+
17:27:23 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/UCR_4.1a
17:27:25 <Gary> chrisw: in test cases, the premise is a document, but what is the conclusion?
17:27:42 <Harold> Jos, I had the same problem with the French bridge: dropped twice.
17:28:07 <sandro> Chris: A Test-Case-Conclusion is a Rule-Condition
17:28:08 <Gary> ... a test case conclusion is a rule condition.  confusing but true
17:28:15 <Hassan> q?
17:28:41 <Gary> hassan: issue is module scoping
17:28:42 <josb> q+
17:29:50 <Gary> ... prefixes are related to imports and module scoping
17:30:03 <Gary> chrisw: no, more like a macro expansion
17:30:11 <Hassan> q-
17:30:33 <StellaMitchell> sometimes conclusions need prefixes that are not in the premise
17:30:54 <Gary> jos: propose to simply document that conclusions can use prefixes from premise
17:31:01 <josb> then these should be added in the premise, at least on the wiki
17:31:10 <Gary> ... and in the XML, the prefixes are expanded anywhay
17:31:22 <Gary> s/anywhay/anyway/
17:31:41 <Gary> chrisw: can we have a solution that does not change the BLD spec?
17:31:53 <Gary> michael: but notion of query is fundamental to logic rules
17:31:56 <Zakim> -Michael_Kifer
17:32:00 <Zakim> -LeoraMorgenstern
17:32:01 <ChrisW> zakim, list attendees
17:32:02 <Zakim> -StellaMitchell
17:32:02 <Zakim> -josb
17:32:03 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +39.047.101.aaaa, josb, ChrisW, StellaMitchell, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, +1.503.533.aabb, csma, +1.212.781.aacc, Gary, LeoraMorgenstern, Sandro,
17:32:08 <Zakim> ... +43.158.801.3aadd, +1.631.833.aaee, Michael_Kifer, AdrianP, +43.158.801.3aaff, +039047101aagg, +43.12.aahh
17:32:10 <Zakim> -Hassan_Ait-Kaci
17:32:10 <Zakim> - +43.12.aahh
17:32:25 <ChrisW> Regrets: AdrianPaschke DaveReynolds MohamedZergaoui PaulVincent
17:32:30 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
17:32:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/09-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:32:47 <Zakim> -Gary
17:32:55 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
17:32:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see ChrisW, Sandro
17:46:56 <Zakim> -ChrisW
17:46:57 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:46:58 <Zakim> Attendees were +39.047.101.aaaa, josb, ChrisW, StellaMitchell, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, +1.503.533.aabb, csma, +1.212.781.aacc, Gary, LeoraMorgenstern, Sandro, +43.158.801.3aadd,
17:47:01 <Zakim> ... +1.631.833.aaee, Michael_Kifer, AdrianP, +43.158.801.3aaff, +039047101aagg, +43.12.aahh