IRC log of svgig on 2008-12-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:56:56 [RRSAgent]
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15:56:56 [RRSAgent]
logging to
15:56:56 [JeffSchiller]
give me a couple mins here
15:56:58 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:57:00 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be SVGIG
15:57:00 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
15:57:01 [shepazu]
15:57:01 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Interest Group Teleconference
15:57:01 [trackbot]
Date: 04 December 2008
15:57:04 [Rob_Russell]
15:57:56 [Zakim]
GA_SVGIG()11:00AM has now started
15:58:03 [Zakim]
+ +1.713.851.aaaa
15:58:25 [Zakim]
15:58:27 [Zakim]
- +1.713.851.aaaa
15:58:29 [Zakim]
+ +1.713.851.aaaa
15:58:57 [Zakim]
15:59:38 [Zakim]
+ +1.149.1.aabb
16:00:04 [Rob_Russell]
i'm the 1.149 number (caller id messed up on the voip)
16:00:51 [DavePorter]
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16:00:58 [shepazu]
Zakim, +1.713.851.aaaa is gwadej
16:00:58 [Zakim]
sorry, shepazu, I do not recognize a party named '+1.713.851.aaaa'
16:01:01 [HelderMagalhaes]
(just to ease on the logs and general identification - also, I'll be following from IRC as usual :-) )
16:01:17 [shepazu]
Zakim, +1.149.1.aabb is Rob_Russell
16:01:17 [Zakim]
+Rob_Russell; got it
16:01:39 [aneumann]
I am also just on IRC, not on the phone. I'd like to discuss SVG Open in the first 10-15 minutes because I have to leave then
16:01:49 [Zakim]
+ +49.918.12.aacc
16:02:19 [shepazu]
Zakim, +49.918.12.aacc is Manuel
16:02:19 [Zakim]
+Manuel; got it
16:02:31 [Zakim]
16:03:12 [shepazu]
scribeNick: Rob_Russell
16:03:27 [Rob_Russell]
topic: svgopen 2009
16:03:42 [Rob_Russell]
Topic: svgopen 2009
16:03:56 [aneumann]
as you may have heard we did not find a local organizer for SVG Open 2009 in California
16:04:17 [aneumann]
our next lead is now Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania - David Dailey is looking into it
16:04:28 [JeffSchiller]
yes, i've seen some discussions about an alternate US location, PA
16:04:52 [aneumann]
a research company ( is interested in helping with the organization
16:04:54 [Rob_Russell]
doug: penn is okay, CA is better
16:05:04 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: CA is more popular tech destination
16:05:21 [aneumann]
yes, but without a local organizer its too risky
16:05:38 [Rob_Russell]
doug: mozilla has joined the SVG WG, hired Jonathan Watt for fulltime svg dev
16:05:50 [aneumann]
There is also Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh
16:06:02 [HelderMagalhaes]
Rob_Russell: great to know about that! :-)
16:06:04 [aneumann]
cool - good to hear abouth Jonathan
16:06:11 [Rob_Russell]
doug: jwatt previously worked for joost, was a memeber of the svg wg and ig but joost has dropped svg
16:06:43 [Rob_Russell]
doug: asked jwatt to see if moz would be interested in helping organize
16:07:02 [aneumann]
I hope that we have a decision about Pittsburgh before Christmas and are able to put out information and Call for papers before end of the year
16:07:05 [Rob_Russell]
doug: before going to a different location we should look into the moz option
16:07:49 [aneumann]
yes, the moz option would be fine also - but we'd need a decision soon - we can't wait much longer
16:07:54 [Rob_Russell]
doug: jwatt may be able to get in on the IG calls within the next week or so (but he is busy)
16:08:35 [aneumann]
also Jwatt may be too busy with getting into Moz and not sure he can devote much time to SVG Open
16:08:46 [aneumann]
but he could help to get moz as a supporter/sponsor
16:09:06 [shepazu]
aneumann, do you think it would bad to wait until January?
16:09:35 [shepazu]
we could CfP before before the final location is announced
16:09:36 [aneumann]
yes, it would be good to have decided on a location before christmas
16:09:59 [Rob_Russell]
doug: could say PA and CA are being considered
16:10:17 [aneumann]
hm - I don't know - we can already prepare the Cfp before and then put it immediately live when we have the decision
16:10:55 [shepazu]
I will respond more on the SVGOpen list
16:11:09 [Rob_Russell]
doug: having moz sponsor the open would be a "feather in the cap", worth waiting a month (personal opinion) and CA would get more people
16:11:22 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: agrees, CA is closer to tech stuff
16:11:36 [aneumann]
ok - I have to leave now anyway. Lets discuss it further on the SVG Open list
16:11:53 [Rob_Russell]
doug: higher profile conf puts more pressure on MS than a smaller one
16:11:57 [aneumann]
I wouldn't mind if someone else would take the lead who is in better contact with moz than me
16:12:04 [Rob_Russell]
doug: ultimately Andreas' decision
16:12:32 [Rob_Russell]
doug: will pursue Mozilla for a person to organize
16:12:41 [shepazu]
I will contact other Moz people than jwatt, too
16:12:48 [aneumann]
not only - I follow your advice
16:13:00 [aneumann]
ok - thanks and bye for now ...
16:13:18 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: will jwatt be doing what tor was doing at moz?
16:13:42 [Rob_Russell]
doug: yes, jonathan said mozilla is going for Full SVG 1.1 compliance
16:14:12 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: interesting to see if we can get a plugin from Moz (for ie?) that's fully supported
16:14:33 [Rob_Russell]
Topic: Mozilla, SVG WG
16:14:49 [aneumann]
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16:15:14 [Rob_Russell]
doug: update from the SVG WG. Mozilla has joined. Most people aren't in on the politics and pain of getting the browser vendors to participate, this has been years in coming.
16:16:04 [Rob_Russell]
doug: Dedicating a Mozilla employee to SVG is huge. Robert O'Calahan has been proposing extensions to SVG for CSS, layout & positioning & ease of authoring.
16:16:36 [Rob_Russell]
doug: Don't think they'll simply do SVG 1.1 and that's all - more of a long term dedication to SVG as part of an open web platform.
16:17:24 [Rob_Russell]
doug: Despite some misgivings at the WG, we're going ahead with hixe's proposal to do inline SVG in html5 (plain text html). The WG would like feedback, especially use cases and tests.
16:17:51 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: I followed some of the discussion, hixie proposal is the less rigid?
16:18:46 [Rob_Russell]
doug: hixie's proposal allows for error correction. In html5 it's not considered an error (badly formed dom) but in XML SVG it would be.
16:19:08 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: I don't mind going along with html5ish way as long as there's a way to export the SVG dom as XML
16:19:26 [Rob_Russell]
doug: that's something this group could do, come up with test cases & use cases
16:19:35 [Rob_Russell]
wade: do we have a pointer to this spec?
16:19:47 [Rob_Russell]
doug: will ask hixie to make a version available
16:22:42 [Rob_Russell]
doug: you basically have to understand all of html5 to get it
16:22:42 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: there's some contention but michael smith put out a spec for just the parsing
16:22:42 [Rob_Russell]
doug: the edge cases might not show up there
16:22:46 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: font element & text area clash with elements in html, worried about how that will work
16:22:49 [Rob_Russell]
doug: WG is taking a hard line in that case, no whitelist or blacklist of elements or attributes for svg in html
16:22:51 [Rob_Russell]
doug: may lose things like entities
16:22:53 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: not a big loss to me
16:22:56 [Rob_Russell]
doug: illustrator uses entities heavily
16:23:02 [Rob_Russell]
doug: thinking of making an SVG Tidy that would replace entities and strip out unneeded namespaces
16:23:46 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: sam ruby made a post that ranks highly about scrubbing svg - google SVG Tidy (written in ruby language)
16:24:29 [Rob_Russell]
Action: shepazu to publish version of HTML5 SVG syntax
16:24:29 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-15 - Publish version of HTML5 SVG syntax [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-11].
16:25:26 [Rob_Russell]
rob: it'd be nice to get this covered on This Week In HTML5 (mark pilgrim)
16:25:47 [Rob_Russell]
doug: discussed SVG in HTML with the HTML WG at the tech plenary
16:26:09 [Rob_Russell]
doug: I think hixie's plan will win out over passing SVG to a strict parser
16:26:22 [Rob_Russell]
doug: this could have implications for standalone content as well
16:26:57 [Rob_Russell]
doug: it's possible that other browsers would have to understand this syntax which could be disruptive to existing SVG toolchains
16:27:31 [Rob_Russell]
Topic: Community Website
16:27:59 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: last time we talked about generating content & rob would keep up on theming
16:28:22 [JeffSchiller]
rob: has put up a version of the theme on planetsvg
16:28:33 [shepazu]
16:28:58 [JeffSchiller]
rob: go to, log in, My Account > Edit, then choose the "Genesis_psc1"
16:29:20 [JeffSchiller]
rob: then click save, the site will change theme
16:29:31 [JeffSchiller]
rob: this theme is still a draft, lots of visual quirks
16:29:44 [JeffSchiller]
rob: so things are moving along, want people to take a look, but I'm aware there are problems
16:31:44 [JeffSchiller]
rob: might want to put the background in so it doesn't look so white-on-dark
16:31:48 [JeffSchiller]
jeff: are you looking for feedback yet?
16:32:02 [JeffSchiller]
rob: might make more sense for me to get it a little closer to 'done'
16:32:20 [JeffSchiller]
manuel: can i download the theme so i can work on it and submit it back?
16:33:01 [JeffSchiller]
jeff: can you email him a tgz?
16:33:18 [JeffSchiller]
rob: will do
16:35:07 [JeffSchiller]
doug: is there a feed for news items?
16:35:16 [JeffSchiller]
rob: i believe it's possible, but not sure why its' not available yet
16:36:13 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: maybe we need a global feed, news tutorials, we should discuss what feeds we need exactly
16:38:34 [HelderMagalhaes]
JeffSchiller: Yes, having the possibility to syndicate to specific feed was rather useful
16:38:53 [HelderMagalhaes]
For example, a developer might
16:39:20 [HelderMagalhaes]
just want news, an artist might prefer the uploaded images feed
16:42:23 [shepazu]
Zakim, who's noisy?
16:42:33 [Zakim]
shepazu, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: gwadej (19%), Rob_Russell (66%)
16:42:40 [JeffSchiller]
Helder: yes, i'll starta little page for this on the SVG IG wiki
16:42:48 [shepazu]
Zakim, mute gwadej
16:42:48 [Zakim]
gwadej should now be muted
16:44:27 [Rob_Russell]
rob: we need to decide on blockers from "prime time"
16:44:50 [Rob_Russell]
theme, feeds, primary navigation
16:45:11 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: will start a wiki page on rss feeds
16:45:24 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: we should discuss content on the site
16:46:12 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: I did a tutorial, shiny buttons, I wasn't sure of the format of the content.I hosted images and svg on my site. How do we do this going forward?
16:46:43 [Rob_Russell]
rob: there's g2 and there are image modules for drupal
16:47:36 [Rob_Russell]
rob: I think we should use a drupal image/gallery module
16:48:28 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: if images were uploadable then it'd be easier to create content. Maybe authors who need js could ship their files to an admin who could post it
16:48:31 [Rob_Russell]
rob: good idea
16:48:58 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: rasters are easy, for svg & js standalone we'd want the author to send that to an admin
16:49:12 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: we'd need to decide on paths
16:49:22 [Rob_Russell]
rob: we could publish guidelines for that
16:50:06 [Rob_Russell]
doug: I've hacked mediawiki to allow svg, I think it was using IFRAME but OBJECT might be better now
16:50:36 [Rob_Russell]
doug: Wondering if we could combine upload with another problem. Helping people on irc I use pastebin, it's generic but we need a dedicated svg pastebin.
16:51:36 [stelt]
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16:51:44 [Rob_Russell]
doug: Ideally it would show the svg source and the image
16:51:53 [Rob_Russell]
rob: sounds good, like a standalone site though
16:52:01 [Rob_Russell]
doug: maybe a subdomain on planetsvg
16:52:39 [Rob_Russell]
doug: it'd be nice to be able to highlight code on a pastebin too
16:53:26 [HelderMagalhaes]
Yeah, having a raster feature for a paste bin would be great!
16:53:36 [Rob_Russell]
rob: i think there could be xss issues with that
16:53:49 [HelderMagalhaes]
(even if limited to static SVG only, which would be the natural option for security reasons...)
16:53:56 [Rob_Russell]
doug: that could be avoided by stripping out all js
16:54:20 [HelderMagalhaes]
maybe using a rasterizer? rsvg or Batik server-side
16:54:48 [HelderMagalhaes]
(that could also help new users to try SVG even without local support (in IE, of course)
16:55:00 [HelderMagalhaes]
16:55:16 [Rob_Russell]
doug: it'd be nice if, at least, people could paste their svg in an edit box and use that as a way to add images to the gallery
16:55:38 [stelt]
HelderMagalhaes: i have a GUI for a rasterizer service somewhere
16:55:48 [stelt]
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16:56:41 [gwadej]
I've got to run to a meeting.
16:56:56 [Zakim]
16:57:25 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: to make things easier for authors, maybe we could allow people to upload js & svg then an admin/mod approves it
16:57:39 [Rob_Russell]
rob: yes, i think that's a great role for a specific type of moderator
16:58:28 [HelderMagalhaes]
stelt: Yes, I know about it, but the idea was allowing that online (server-side) or client side for click-and-see experience like in w3schools. For example,
17:00:33 [DavePorter]
Sorry guys, I have to drop off! Thanks for the meeting and hearing about recent progress.
17:00:36 [Zakim]
17:01:22 [Rob_Russell]
jeff: might try to put out a part 2 to the aqua button tutorial a week or so from now
17:01:47 [Rob_Russell]
doug: i'd like to do a follow up to the button tutorial but different
17:04:11 [Rob_Russell]
doug: try to start new telcon time in the new year
17:04:13 [Zakim]
17:04:22 [Zakim]
17:04:24 [Zakim]
17:05:33 [Zakim]
17:05:35 [Zakim]
GA_SVGIG()11:00AM has ended
17:05:36 [Zakim]
Attendees were Doug_Schepers, JeffSchiller, gwadej, Rob_Russell, Manuel, Dave_Porter
17:06:01 [shepazu]
RRSAgent, make minutes public
17:06:01 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', shepazu. Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:06:13 [shepazu]
RRSAgent, make minutes
17:06:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate shepazu
17:09:39 [HelderMagalhaes]
Thank you for the meeting, everyone! :-)
17:10:49 [stelt]
Next in 2 weeks? or did sth change?
17:17:23 [JeffSchiller]
stelt - call is in 2 weeks (no change)
17:17:37 [JeffSchiller]
but the call after (Jan 1st) will either be moved or cancelled
17:23:54 [stelt]
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17:24:52 [gwadej]
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