IRC log of svgig on 2008-12-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:56:56 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #svgig

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-svgig-irc

15:56:56 [JeffSchiller]

give me a couple mins here

15:56:58 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

15:57:00 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be SVGIG

15:57:00 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

15:57:01 [shepazu]

sure

15:57:01 [trackbot]

Meeting: SVG Interest Group Teleconference

15:57:01 [trackbot]

Date: 04 December 2008

15:57:04 [Rob_Russell]

howdy

15:57:56 [Zakim]

GA_SVGIG()11:00AM has now started

15:58:03 [Zakim]

+ +1.713.851.aaaa

15:58:25 [Zakim]

+Doug_Schepers

15:58:27 [Zakim]

- +1.713.851.aaaa

15:58:29 [Zakim]

+ +1.713.851.aaaa

15:58:57 [Zakim]

+JeffSchiller

15:59:38 [Zakim]

+ +1.149.1.aabb

16:00:04 [Rob_Russell]

i'm the 1.149 number (caller id messed up on the voip)

16:00:51 [DavePorter]

DavePorter has joined #svgig

16:00:58 [shepazu]

Zakim, +1.713.851.aaaa is gwadej

16:00:58 [Zakim]

sorry, shepazu, I do not recognize a party named '+1.713.851.aaaa'

16:01:01 [HelderMagalhaes]

(just to ease on the logs and general identification - also, I'll be following from IRC as usual :-) )

16:01:17 [shepazu]

Zakim, +1.149.1.aabb is Rob_Russell

16:01:17 [Zakim]

+Rob_Russell; got it

16:01:39 [aneumann]

I am also just on IRC, not on the phone. I'd like to discuss SVG Open in the first 10-15 minutes because I have to leave then

16:01:49 [Zakim]

+ +49.918.12.aacc

16:02:19 [shepazu]

Zakim, +49.918.12.aacc is Manuel

16:02:19 [Zakim]

+Manuel; got it

16:02:31 [Zakim]

+Dave_Porter

16:03:12 [shepazu]

scribeNick: Rob_Russell

16:03:27 [Rob_Russell]

topic: svgopen 2009

16:03:42 [Rob_Russell]

Topic: svgopen 2009

16:03:56 [aneumann]

as you may have heard we did not find a local organizer for SVG Open 2009 in California

16:04:17 [aneumann]

our next lead is now Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania - David Dailey is looking into it

16:04:28 [JeffSchiller]

yes, i've seen some discussions about an alternate US location, PA

16:04:52 [aneumann]

a research company (http://www.brainstage.com/) is interested in helping with the organization

16:04:54 [Rob_Russell]

doug: penn is okay, CA is better

16:05:04 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: CA is more popular tech destination

16:05:21 [aneumann]

yes, but without a local organizer its too risky

16:05:38 [Rob_Russell]

doug: mozilla has joined the SVG WG, hired Jonathan Watt for fulltime svg dev

16:05:50 [aneumann]

There is also Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh

16:06:02 [HelderMagalhaes]

Rob_Russell: great to know about that! :-)

16:06:04 [aneumann]

cool - good to hear abouth Jonathan

16:06:11 [Rob_Russell]

doug: jwatt previously worked for joost, was a memeber of the svg wg and ig but joost has dropped svg

16:06:43 [Rob_Russell]

doug: asked jwatt to see if moz would be interested in helping organize

16:07:02 [aneumann]

I hope that we have a decision about Pittsburgh before Christmas and are able to put out information and Call for papers before end of the year

16:07:05 [Rob_Russell]

doug: before going to a different location we should look into the moz option

16:07:49 [aneumann]

yes, the moz option would be fine also - but we'd need a decision soon - we can't wait much longer

16:07:54 [Rob_Russell]

doug: jwatt may be able to get in on the IG calls within the next week or so (but he is busy)

16:08:35 [aneumann]

also Jwatt may be too busy with getting into Moz and not sure he can devote much time to SVG Open

16:08:46 [aneumann]

but he could help to get moz as a supporter/sponsor

16:09:06 [shepazu]

aneumann, do you think it would bad to wait until January?

16:09:35 [shepazu]

we could CfP before before the final location is announced

16:09:36 [aneumann]

yes, it would be good to have decided on a location before christmas

16:09:59 [Rob_Russell]

doug: could say PA and CA are being considered

16:10:17 [aneumann]

hm - I don't know - we can already prepare the Cfp before and then put it immediately live when we have the decision

16:10:55 [shepazu]

I will respond more on the SVGOpen list

16:11:09 [Rob_Russell]

doug: having moz sponsor the open would be a "feather in the cap", worth waiting a month (personal opinion) and CA would get more people

16:11:22 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: agrees, CA is closer to tech stuff

16:11:36 [aneumann]

ok - I have to leave now anyway. Lets discuss it further on the SVG Open list

16:11:53 [Rob_Russell]

doug: higher profile conf puts more pressure on MS than a smaller one

16:11:57 [aneumann]

I wouldn't mind if someone else would take the lead who is in better contact with moz than me

16:12:04 [Rob_Russell]

doug: ultimately Andreas' decision

16:12:32 [Rob_Russell]

doug: will pursue Mozilla for a person to organize

16:12:41 [shepazu]

I will contact other Moz people than jwatt, too

16:12:48 [aneumann]

not only - I follow your advice

16:13:00 [aneumann]

ok - thanks and bye for now ...

16:13:18 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: will jwatt be doing what tor was doing at moz?

16:13:42 [Rob_Russell]

doug: yes, jonathan said mozilla is going for Full SVG 1.1 compliance

16:14:12 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: interesting to see if we can get a plugin from Moz (for ie?) that's fully supported

16:14:33 [Rob_Russell]

Topic: Mozilla, SVG WG

16:14:49 [aneumann]

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16:15:14 [Rob_Russell]

doug: update from the SVG WG. Mozilla has joined. Most people aren't in on the politics and pain of getting the browser vendors to participate, this has been years in coming.

16:16:04 [Rob_Russell]

doug: Dedicating a Mozilla employee to SVG is huge. Robert O'Calahan has been proposing extensions to SVG for CSS, layout & positioning & ease of authoring.

16:16:36 [Rob_Russell]

doug: Don't think they'll simply do SVG 1.1 and that's all - more of a long term dedication to SVG as part of an open web platform.

16:17:24 [Rob_Russell]

doug: Despite some misgivings at the WG, we're going ahead with hixe's proposal to do inline SVG in html5 (plain text html). The WG would like feedback, especially use cases and tests.

16:17:51 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: I followed some of the discussion, hixie proposal is the less rigid?

16:18:46 [Rob_Russell]

doug: hixie's proposal allows for error correction. In html5 it's not considered an error (badly formed dom) but in XML SVG it would be.

16:19:08 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: I don't mind going along with html5ish way as long as there's a way to export the SVG dom as XML

16:19:26 [Rob_Russell]

doug: that's something this group could do, come up with test cases & use cases

16:19:35 [Rob_Russell]

wade: do we have a pointer to this spec?

16:19:47 [Rob_Russell]

doug: will ask hixie to make a version available

16:22:42 [Rob_Russell]

doug: you basically have to understand all of html5 to get it

16:22:42 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: there's some contention but michael smith put out a spec for just the parsing

16:22:42 [Rob_Russell]

doug: the edge cases might not show up there

16:22:46 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: font element & text area clash with elements in html, worried about how that will work

16:22:49 [Rob_Russell]

doug: WG is taking a hard line in that case, no whitelist or blacklist of elements or attributes for svg in html

16:22:51 [Rob_Russell]

doug: may lose things like entities

16:22:53 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: not a big loss to me

16:22:56 [Rob_Russell]

doug: illustrator uses entities heavily

16:23:02 [Rob_Russell]

doug: thinking of making an SVG Tidy that would replace entities and strip out unneeded namespaces

16:23:46 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: sam ruby made a post that ranks highly about scrubbing svg - google SVG Tidy (written in ruby language)

16:24:29 [Rob_Russell]

Action: shepazu to publish version of HTML5 SVG syntax

16:24:29 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-15 - Publish version of HTML5 SVG syntax [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-11].

16:25:26 [Rob_Russell]

rob: it'd be nice to get this covered on This Week In HTML5 (mark pilgrim)

16:25:47 [Rob_Russell]

doug: discussed SVG in HTML with the HTML WG at the tech plenary

16:26:09 [Rob_Russell]

doug: I think hixie's plan will win out over passing SVG to a strict parser

16:26:22 [Rob_Russell]

doug: this could have implications for standalone content as well

16:26:57 [Rob_Russell]

doug: it's possible that other browsers would have to understand this syntax which could be disruptive to existing SVG toolchains

16:27:31 [Rob_Russell]

Topic: Community Website

16:27:59 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: last time we talked about generating content & rob would keep up on theming

16:28:22 [JeffSchiller]

rob: has put up a version of the theme on planetsvg

16:28:33 [shepazu]

http://www.planetsvg.com/

16:28:58 [JeffSchiller]

rob: go to planetsvg.com, log in, My Account > Edit, then choose the "Genesis_psc1"

16:29:20 [JeffSchiller]

rob: then click save, the site will change theme

16:29:31 [JeffSchiller]

rob: this theme is still a draft, lots of visual quirks

16:29:44 [JeffSchiller]

rob: so things are moving along, want people to take a look, but I'm aware there are problems

16:31:44 [JeffSchiller]

rob: might want to put the background in so it doesn't look so white-on-dark

16:31:48 [JeffSchiller]

jeff: are you looking for feedback yet?

16:32:02 [JeffSchiller]

rob: might make more sense for me to get it a little closer to 'done'

16:32:20 [JeffSchiller]

manuel: can i download the theme so i can work on it and submit it back?

16:33:01 [JeffSchiller]

jeff: can you email him a tgz?

16:33:18 [JeffSchiller]

rob: will do

16:35:07 [JeffSchiller]

doug: is there a feed for news items?

16:35:16 [JeffSchiller]

rob: i believe it's possible, but not sure why its' not available yet

16:36:13 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: maybe we need a global feed, news tutorials, we should discuss what feeds we need exactly

16:38:34 [HelderMagalhaes]

JeffSchiller: Yes, having the possibility to syndicate to specific feed was rather useful

16:38:53 [HelderMagalhaes]

For example, a developer might

16:39:20 [HelderMagalhaes]

just want news, an artist might prefer the uploaded images feed

16:42:23 [shepazu]

Zakim, who's noisy?

16:42:33 [Zakim]

shepazu, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: gwadej (19%), Rob_Russell (66%)

16:42:40 [JeffSchiller]

Helder: yes, i'll starta little page for this on the SVG IG wiki

16:42:48 [shepazu]

Zakim, mute gwadej

16:42:48 [Zakim]

gwadej should now be muted

16:44:27 [Rob_Russell]

rob: we need to decide on blockers from "prime time"

16:44:50 [Rob_Russell]

theme, feeds, primary navigation

16:45:11 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: will start a wiki page on rss feeds

16:45:24 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: we should discuss content on the site

16:46:12 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: I did a tutorial, shiny buttons, I wasn't sure of the format of the content.I hosted images and svg on my site. How do we do this going forward?

16:46:43 [Rob_Russell]

rob: there's g2 and there are image modules for drupal

16:47:36 [Rob_Russell]

rob: I think we should use a drupal image/gallery module

16:48:28 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: if images were uploadable then it'd be easier to create content. Maybe authors who need js could ship their files to an admin who could post it

16:48:31 [Rob_Russell]

rob: good idea

16:48:58 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: rasters are easy, for svg & js standalone we'd want the author to send that to an admin

16:49:12 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: we'd need to decide on paths

16:49:22 [Rob_Russell]

rob: we could publish guidelines for that

16:50:06 [Rob_Russell]

doug: I've hacked mediawiki to allow svg, I think it was using IFRAME but OBJECT might be better now

16:50:36 [Rob_Russell]

doug: Wondering if we could combine upload with another problem. Helping people on irc I use pastebin, it's generic but we need a dedicated svg pastebin.

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16:51:44 [Rob_Russell]

doug: Ideally it would show the svg source and the image

16:51:53 [Rob_Russell]

rob: sounds good, like a standalone site though

16:52:01 [Rob_Russell]

doug: maybe a subdomain on planetsvg

16:52:39 [Rob_Russell]

doug: it'd be nice to be able to highlight code on a pastebin too

16:53:26 [HelderMagalhaes]

Yeah, having a raster feature for a paste bin would be great!

16:53:36 [Rob_Russell]

rob: i think there could be xss issues with that

16:53:49 [HelderMagalhaes]

(even if limited to static SVG only, which would be the natural option for security reasons...)

16:53:56 [Rob_Russell]

doug: that could be avoided by stripping out all js

16:54:20 [HelderMagalhaes]

maybe using a rasterizer? rsvg or Batik server-side

16:54:48 [HelderMagalhaes]

(that could also help new users to try SVG even without local support (in IE, of course)

16:55:00 [HelderMagalhaes]

)

16:55:16 [Rob_Russell]

doug: it'd be nice if, at least, people could paste their svg in an edit box and use that as a way to add images to the gallery

16:55:38 [stelt]

HelderMagalhaes: i have a GUI for a rasterizer service somewhere

16:55:48 [stelt]

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16:56:41 [gwadej]

I've got to run to a meeting.

16:56:56 [Zakim]

-gwadej

16:57:25 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: to make things easier for authors, maybe we could allow people to upload js & svg then an admin/mod approves it

16:57:39 [Rob_Russell]

rob: yes, i think that's a great role for a specific type of moderator

16:58:28 [HelderMagalhaes]

stelt: Yes, I know about it, but the idea was allowing that online (server-side) or client side for click-and-see experience like in w3schools. For example, http://www.w3schools.com/js/tryit.asp?filename=try_dom_form_submit

17:00:33 [DavePorter]

Sorry guys, I have to drop off! Thanks for the meeting and hearing about recent progress.

17:00:36 [Zakim]

-Dave_Porter

17:01:22 [Rob_Russell]

jeff: might try to put out a part 2 to the aqua button tutorial a week or so from now

17:01:47 [Rob_Russell]

doug: i'd like to do a follow up to the button tutorial but different

17:04:11 [Rob_Russell]

doug: try to start new telcon time in the new year

17:04:13 [Zakim]

-Manuel

17:04:22 [Zakim]

-Doug_Schepers

17:04:24 [Zakim]

-JeffSchiller

17:05:33 [Zakim]

-Rob_Russell

17:05:35 [Zakim]

GA_SVGIG()11:00AM has ended

17:05:36 [Zakim]

Attendees were Doug_Schepers, JeffSchiller, gwadej, Rob_Russell, Manuel, Dave_Porter

17:06:01 [shepazu]

RRSAgent, make minutes public

17:06:01 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', shepazu. Try /msg RRSAgent help

17:06:13 [shepazu]

RRSAgent, make minutes

17:06:13 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-svgig-minutes.html shepazu

17:09:39 [HelderMagalhaes]

Thank you for the meeting, everyone! :-)

17:10:49 [stelt]

Next in 2 weeks? or did sth change?

17:17:23 [JeffSchiller]

stelt - call is in 2 weeks (no change)

17:17:37 [JeffSchiller]

but the call after (Jan 1st) will either be moved or cancelled

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17:24:52 [gwadej]

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