IRC log of mwts on 2008-12-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:54:29 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #mwts
15:54:29 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-mwts-irc
15:54:31 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
15:54:31 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #mwts
15:54:33 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be MWI_TS
15:54:34 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see MWI_TSWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
15:54:34 [trackbot]: Meeting: Mobile Web Initiative Test Suites Working Group Teleconference
15:54:34 [trackbot]: Date: 02 December 2008
15:54:36 [dom]: trackbot, bye
15:54:36 [trackbot]: trackbot has left #mwts
15:54:40 [dom]: Chair: Dom
15:54:54 [dom]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mwts/2008Dec/0000.html
15:56:09 [hendry]: i have 55? we start early?
16:00:32 [dom]: zakim, code?
16:00:32 [Zakim]: the conference code is 8794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), dom
16:00:37 [Zakim]: MWI_TSWG()11:00AM has now started
16:00:38 [Zakim]: +??P50
16:00:50 [Zakim]: +wilhelm
16:01:01 [Zakim]: +??P52
16:01:01 [hendry]: hmm, poor voice quality. getting crackling.
16:01:02 [Zakim]: -??P52
16:01:02 [Zakim]: +??P52
16:01:49 [dsilaev]: dsilaev has joined #mwts
16:02:11 [Zakim]: +Dom
16:02:18 [dom]: zakim, list attendees?
16:02:18 [Zakim]: I don't understand your question, dom.
16:02:20 [dom]: zakim, list attendees
16:02:20 [Zakim]: As of this point the attendees have been wilhelm, Dom
16:02:27 [dom]: zakim, who's on the phone?
16:02:28 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ??P50, wilhelm, ??P52, Dom
16:02:41 [dom]: zakim, ??P50 is probably kai
16:02:41 [Zakim]: +kai?; got it
16:02:45 [Zakim]: -kai?
16:02:48 [dom]: zakim, ??P52 is Dmitri
16:02:48 [Zakim]: +Dmitri; got it
16:03:41 [Zakim]: +??P64
16:03:51 [dom]: zakim, ??P64 is Kai
16:03:52 [Zakim]: +Kai; got it
16:04:32 [dom]: Topic: Widgets Testing
16:04:47 [dom]: ACTION: Wilhelm to follow up on widgets testing with Kai [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/04-mwts-minutes.html#action01] [DONE]
16:05:39 [dom]: Wilhelm: we'll doing more cleaning up and then release it publicly
16:05:54 [dom]: ... we're open to make any changes needed to make it useful for its purposes
16:06:25 [dom]: Kai: It's quite a complicated system - Robert has given me a number of details on how it works, and how to possibly make it suit my needs
16:06:41 [dom]: ... hopefully I won't spend too much time with the framework - I'd rather write tests
16:06:51 [dom]: Wilhelm: feel free to provide feedback directly to Robert
16:06:58 [dom]: Kai: I think we'll get there
16:07:09 [dom]: ... Is opera also going to contribute actual test cases too?
16:07:20 [dom]: Wilhelm: our current test suite is not suitable for publication
16:07:29 [dom]: ... we're rewriting it, and then we'll release it
16:08:05 [dom]: ACTION: Kai to continue integrating his tests WTF
16:09:24 [dom]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mwts/2008Nov/0022.html Art's response
16:09:33 [dom]: ACTION: Kai to import his test cases on dev.w3.org
16:10:00 [dom]: [2006/waf/widgets/tests/]
16:11:17 [dom]: Dom: would be good if you could upload them in 2006/waf/widgets/tests/; may be good to upload generated zip files to that people can start looking at them
16:11:27 [dom]: Topics: Cookies test suite
16:11:42 [dom]: ACTION: Wilhelm to look into opera's test suites for cookies [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-mwts-minutes.html#action04] [PENDING]
16:11:50 [dom]: Wilhelm: made more progress, still pending
16:11:57 [dom]: Topic: Device Independent Testing Guidelines
16:12:06 [dom]: Regrets: Carmelo
16:12:20 [dom]: ACTION: Kai to contribute to the di guidelines (an example?) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action11] [DONE]
16:12:40 [dom]: -> http://dabase.com/guidelines.html Kai's copy of the DI guidelines
16:13:26 [dom]: Dom: you don't see much added value to the document as is compared to CSS Test Guidelines, right?
16:13:53 [dom]: Kai: yeah - currently, it seems to mostly repeat the CSS guidelines
16:14:11 [dom]: ... not sure how to proceed
16:14:27 [dom]: ... I've started to ask myself what people got wrong in test cases for mobile
16:14:34 [dom]: ... can't really think of anything
16:15:07 [dom]: Dom: we identified a few things when we reviewed perf tests (e.g. memory, number of requests, ...)
16:15:31 [dom]: Kai: I think it is good to share our experience in the guidelines, e.g. javascript is likely broken
16:15:48 [dom]: ACTION: Dom to review the di guidelines [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action09] [PENDING]
16:17:36 [dom]: Dom: [mentioning ideas of what could get in there]
16:17:45 [dom]: ACTION: Wilhelm to review the di guidelines [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action10] [PENDING]
16:17:51 [dom]: Wilhelm: will send them by next week
16:19:06 [dom]: Kai: would be good if Carmelo could give feedback on the comments I made
16:20:31 [dom]: ... It's kind of weird that we work both on highlighting issues in browsers, and then work on creating mobile-specific test cases
16:21:42 [dom]: Dom: I think the two activities are complementary
16:21:53 [dom]: http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/Tests/matrix
16:22:14 [dom]: http://www.w3.org/DOM/Test/
16:23:47 [hendry]: CSS testcases -- these ones ? http://testfest.openmobilealliance.org/CSS_Content/index.html ?
16:24:19 [hendry]: not these http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/Mobile/1.0/current/ ?
16:26:03 [dom]: Dom: [summarizing some of the issues encountered in the review of existing conformance test suites]
16:26:46 [dom]: ... feel free to edit it direclty
16:26:54 [dom]: s/lty/lty/
16:27:07 [dom]: Topic: Web Compatibility Test
16:27:26 [dom]: ACTION: Kai to verify IE mobile with new inputmode/contenteditable tests [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-mwts-minutes.html#action11] [DONE]
16:27:38 [dom]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mwts/2008Nov/0021.html Kai's findings
16:28:16 [dom]: Dom: so IE Mobile fail both these tests, right?
16:28:19 [dom]: Kai: yeah
16:28:33 [dom]: Dom: so how comes it passed them in the WCTMB? have you figured it out?
16:29:07 [dom]: ACTION: Kai to check if IE Mobile passes contenteditable/inputmode in WCTMB or not
16:30:00 [dom]: Dom: so, contenteditable still in html5, but inputmode on the verge to be removed?
16:30:23 [dom]: Kai: only checked quickly - more generally, I think we need to keep an eye on what's still relevant and update WCTMB accordingly
16:31:21 [hendry]: http://flickr.com/photos/hendry/3041236348/ # oh yes, 10 & 15 do pass. But Wilhem's test fail. So... we have a problem.
16:33:00 [dom]: Topic: WCTMB blog
16:33:27 [hendry]: http://dabase.com/mwts_blog_1/
16:33:28 [dom]: ACTION: Kai to propose a first "draft" of the white paper on WCTMB [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action14] [DONE]
16:33:39 [dom]: -> http://dabase.com/mwts_blog_1/ Kai's draft blog post
16:34:36 [dom]: Dom: I wasn't clear about your suggestion to submit scores - where to and from?
16:34:51 [dom]: Kai: note that you can edit that page if you have an openId account
16:35:03 [dom]: ACTION: Dom to send feedback on the blog post
16:35:35 [dom]: Kai: if we could submit the score automatically somewhere, it would be really useful
16:36:43 [dom]: ACTION: Dom to look into setting up a system to track scores of the WCTMB
16:37:44 [hendry]: dumping a post to a 'date-ua' file like http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/cgi/test-tools/echo would be good
16:38:07 [dom]: ACTION: Kai to send details on his idea for a local blog system to Dom [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-mwts-minutes.html#action13] [DONE]
16:39:16 [dom]: example: http://www.w3.org/2005/06/blog/MWITeam
16:40:53 [dom]: ACTION: Dom to set up a blog for MWTSWG
16:41:40 [dom]: Topic: Agreement on test suites with OMA
16:42:04 [dom]: ACTION: Wilhem to send Opera's feedback on OMA test suites [recorded inhttp://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action16] [PENDING]
16:42:15 [dom]: Wilhelm: will send something out - made progress
16:42:39 [dom]: ACTION: Dom to look back at OMA situation and report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action15] [PENDING]
16:42:52 [dom]: Topic: Next meetings
16:43:19 [dom]: Wilhelm to Chair on Dec 9
16:44:00 [dom]: RESOLVED: no meeting on Dec 23rd and 30th
16:44:42 [Zakim]: -Dmitri
16:44:44 [Zakim]: -Dom
16:44:46 [Zakim]: -wilhelm
16:44:48 [Zakim]: -Kai
16:44:49 [Zakim]: MWI_TSWG()11:00AM has ended
16:44:51 [Zakim]: Attendees were wilhelm, Dom, kai?, Dmitri, Kai
16:44:59 [dom]: s/<dom> ->/<dom_scribe> ->/g
16:45:04 [dom]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:45:04 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-mwts-minutes.html dom
16:47:16 [dom]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:47:16 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-mwts-minutes.html dom