15:54:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mwts
15:54:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-mwts-irc
15:54:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:54:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mwts
15:54:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be MWI_TS
15:54:34 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see MWI_TSWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
15:54:34 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Web Initiative Test Suites Working Group Teleconference
15:54:34 <trackbot> Date: 02 December 2008
15:54:36 <dom> trackbot, bye
15:54:36 <trackbot> trackbot has left #mwts
15:54:40 <dom> Chair: Dom
15:54:54 <dom> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mwts/2008Dec/0000.html
15:56:09 <hendry> i have 55? we start early?
16:00:32 <dom> zakim, code?
16:00:32 <Zakim> the conference code is 8794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), dom
16:00:37 <Zakim> MWI_TSWG()11:00AM has now started
16:00:38 <Zakim> +??P50
16:00:50 <Zakim> +wilhelm
16:01:01 <Zakim> +??P52
16:01:01 <hendry> hmm, poor voice quality. getting crackling.
16:01:02 <Zakim> -??P52
16:01:02 <Zakim> +??P52
16:01:49 <dsilaev> dsilaev has joined #mwts
16:02:11 <Zakim> +Dom
16:02:18 <dom> zakim, list attendees?
16:02:18 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, dom.
16:02:20 <dom> zakim, list attendees
16:02:20 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been wilhelm, Dom
16:02:27 <dom> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:02:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P50, wilhelm, ??P52, Dom
16:02:41 <dom> zakim, ??P50 is probably kai
16:02:41 <Zakim> +kai?; got it
16:02:45 <Zakim> -kai?
16:02:48 <dom> zakim, ??P52 is Dmitri
16:02:48 <Zakim> +Dmitri; got it
16:03:41 <Zakim> +??P64
16:03:51 <dom> zakim, ??P64 is Kai
16:03:52 <Zakim> +Kai; got it
16:04:32 <dom> Topic: Widgets Testing
16:04:47 <dom> ACTION: Wilhelm to follow up on widgets testing with Kai [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/04-mwts-minutes.html#action01] [DONE]
16:05:39 <dom> Wilhelm: we'll doing more cleaning up and then release it publicly
16:05:54 <dom> ... we're open to make any changes needed to make it useful for its purposes
16:06:25 <dom> Kai: It's quite a complicated system - Robert has given me a number of details on how it works, and how to possibly make it suit my needs
16:06:41 <dom> ... hopefully I won't spend too much time with the framework - I'd rather write tests 
16:06:51 <dom> Wilhelm: feel free to provide feedback directly to Robert
16:06:58 <dom> Kai: I think we'll get there
16:07:09 <dom> ... Is opera also going to contribute actual test cases too?
16:07:20 <dom> Wilhelm: our current test suite is not suitable for publication
16:07:29 <dom> ... we're rewriting it, and then we'll release it
16:08:05 <dom> ACTION: Kai to continue integrating his tests WTF
16:09:24 <dom> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mwts/2008Nov/0022.html Art's response
16:09:33 <dom> ACTION: Kai to import his test cases on dev.w3.org
16:10:00 <dom> [2006/waf/widgets/tests/]
16:11:17 <dom> Dom: would be good if you could upload them in 2006/waf/widgets/tests/; may be good to upload generated zip files to that people can start looking at them
16:11:27 <dom> Topics: Cookies test suite
16:11:42 <dom> ACTION: Wilhelm to look into opera's test suites for cookies [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-mwts-minutes.html#action04] [PENDING]
16:11:50 <dom> Wilhelm: made more progress, still pending
16:11:57 <dom> Topic: Device Independent Testing Guidelines
16:12:06 <dom> Regrets: Carmelo
16:12:20 <dom> ACTION: Kai to contribute to the di guidelines (an example?) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action11] [DONE]
16:12:40 <dom> -> http://dabase.com/guidelines.html Kai's copy of the DI guidelines
16:13:26 <dom> Dom: you don't see much added value to the document as is compared to CSS Test Guidelines, right?
16:13:53 <dom> Kai: yeah - currently, it seems to mostly repeat the CSS guidelines
16:14:11 <dom> ... not sure how to proceed
16:14:27 <dom> ... I've started to ask myself what people got wrong in test cases for mobile
16:14:34 <dom> ... can't really think of anything
16:15:07 <dom> Dom: we identified a few things when we reviewed perf tests (e.g. memory, number of requests, ...)
16:15:31 <dom> Kai: I think it is good to share our experience in the guidelines, e.g. javascript is likely broken
16:15:48 <dom> ACTION: Dom to review the di guidelines [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action09] [PENDING]
16:17:36 <dom> Dom: [mentioning ideas of what could get in there]
16:17:45 <dom> ACTION: Wilhelm to review the di guidelines [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action10] [PENDING]
16:17:51 <dom> Wilhelm: will send them by next week
16:19:06 <dom> Kai: would be good if Carmelo could give feedback on the comments I made
16:20:31 <dom> ... It's kind of weird that we work both on highlighting issues in browsers, and then work on creating mobile-specific test cases
16:21:42 <dom> Dom: I think the two activities are complementary
16:21:53 <dom> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/Tests/matrix
16:22:14 <dom> http://www.w3.org/DOM/Test/
16:23:47 <hendry> CSS testcases -- these ones ? http://testfest.openmobilealliance.org/CSS_Content/index.html ?
16:24:19 <hendry> not these http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/Mobile/1.0/current/ ?
16:26:03 <dom> Dom: [summarizing some of the issues encountered in the review of existing conformance test suites]
16:26:46 <dom> ... feel free to edit it direclty
16:26:54 <dom> s/lty/lty/
16:27:07 <dom> Topic: Web Compatibility Test
16:27:26 <dom> ACTION: Kai to verify IE mobile with new inputmode/contenteditable tests [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-mwts-minutes.html#action11] [DONE]
16:27:38 <dom> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mwts/2008Nov/0021.html Kai's findings
16:28:16 <dom> Dom: so IE Mobile fail both these tests, right?
16:28:19 <dom> Kai: yeah
16:28:33 <dom> Dom: so how comes it passed them in the WCTMB? have you figured it out?
16:29:07 <dom> ACTION: Kai to check if IE Mobile passes contenteditable/inputmode in WCTMB or not
16:30:00 <dom> Dom: so, contenteditable still in html5, but inputmode on the verge to be removed?
16:30:23 <dom> Kai: only checked quickly - more generally, I think we need to keep an eye on what's still relevant and update WCTMB accordingly
16:31:21 <hendry> http://flickr.com/photos/hendry/3041236348/ # oh yes, 10 & 15 do pass. But Wilhem's test fail. So... we have a problem.
16:33:00 <dom> Topic: WCTMB blog
16:33:27 <hendry> http://dabase.com/mwts_blog_1/
16:33:28 <dom> ACTION: Kai to propose a first "draft" of the white paper on WCTMB [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action14] [DONE]
16:33:39 <dom> -> http://dabase.com/mwts_blog_1/ Kai's draft blog post
16:34:36 <dom> Dom: I wasn't clear about your suggestion to submit scores - where to and from?
16:34:51 <dom> Kai: note that you can edit that page if you have an openId account
16:35:03 <dom> ACTION: Dom to send feedback on the blog post 
16:35:35 <dom> Kai: if we could submit the score automatically somewhere, it would be really useful
16:36:43 <dom> ACTION: Dom to look into setting up a system to track scores of the WCTMB
16:37:44 <hendry> dumping a post to a 'date-ua' file like http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/cgi/test-tools/echo would be good
16:38:07 <dom> ACTION: Kai to send details on his idea for a local blog system to Dom [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-mwts-minutes.html#action13] [DONE]
16:39:16 <dom> example: http://www.w3.org/2005/06/blog/MWITeam
16:40:53 <dom> ACTION: Dom to set up a blog for MWTSWG
16:41:40 <dom> Topic: Agreement on test suites with OMA
16:42:04 <dom> ACTION: Wilhem to send Opera's feedback on OMA test suites [recorded inhttp://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action16] [PENDING]
16:42:15 <dom> Wilhelm: will send something out - made progress
16:42:39 <dom> ACTION: Dom to look back at OMA situation and report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action15] [PENDING]
16:42:52 <dom> Topic: Next meetings
16:43:19 <dom> Wilhelm to Chair on Dec 9
16:44:00 <dom> RESOLVED: no meeting on Dec 23rd and 30th
16:44:42 <Zakim> -Dmitri
16:44:44 <Zakim> -Dom
16:44:46 <Zakim> -wilhelm
16:44:48 <Zakim> -Kai
16:44:49 <Zakim> MWI_TSWG()11:00AM has ended
16:44:51 <Zakim> Attendees were wilhelm, Dom, kai?, Dmitri, Kai
16:44:59 <dom> s/<dom> ->/<dom_scribe> ->/g
16:45:04 <dom> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:45:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-mwts-minutes.html dom
16:45:08 <dom> Zakim, bye
16:45:08 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mwts
16:47:16 <dom> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:47:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-mwts-minutes.html dom