15:33:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #backplane
15:33:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-backplane-irc
15:33:25 <CharlieWiecha> rrsagent, make log public
15:33:38 <CharlieWiecha> Meeting: Rich Web Application Backplane telecon
15:33:44 <CharlieWiecha> Chair: Charlie Wiecha
15:34:54 <CharlieWiecha> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Dec/0000.html
15:40:44 <CharlieWiecha> Regrets: Jack 
15:50:28 <CharlieWiecha> Regrets: Jack, Uli
15:51:49 <oedipus> oedipus has joined #backplane
15:56:48 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
15:56:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-backplane-minutes.html oedipus
15:57:10 <oedipus> Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
15:57:17 <oedipus> ScribeNick: oedipus
15:57:18 <Zakim> INC_RWAB()11:00AM has now started
15:57:20 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:57:28 <oedipus> trackbot, start telcon
15:57:32 <CharlieWiecha> zakim, [IBM] is CharlieWiecha
15:57:33 <Zakim> +CharlieWiecha; got it
15:58:21 <oedipus> i invoked trackbot, but didn't realize that rrsagent and zakim were running
15:58:37 <oedipus> trackbot, this is INC_RWAB
15:59:51 <trackbot> trackbot has joined #backplane
15:59:51 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
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16:00:13 <oedipus> trackbot, associate this channel with #backplane
16:00:13 <trackbot> Associating this channel with #backplane...
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16:00:13 <trackbot> If you want to associate this channel with an existing Tracker, please say 'trackbot, associate this channel with #channel' (where #channel is the name of default channel for the group)
16:03:12 <oedipus> zakim, what's the passcode?
16:03:12 <Zakim> the conference code is 7922 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), oedipus
16:05:17 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
16:09:16 <oedipus> CW: sent out draft - working on it this morning - few comments in minutes
16:09:32 <oedipus> TOPIC: XG Report
16:10:08 <oedipus> CW: skipped over question of "what is a rich web application" -- perhaps need to loop back a bit to address declarative languages for rich web applications
16:10:41 <oedipus> CW: prototyping early next year had been the plan, but perhaps have opportunity to begin first report with discussion of "what is a rich web application"
16:11:00 <oedipus> CW: re-read and think that the info is there, but needs to be compiled and conflated
16:11:38 <oedipus> CW: we are RWAB XG -- struck at TPAC about what other WGs doing; HTML5 not interested; Dave Raggett has new XG
16:11:59 <oedipus> CW: aim is that RWAB XG report that could trigger thinking across community
16:12:08 <oedipus> CW: what is need for RWA?
16:12:54 <oedipus> CW: evolution of web from content platform to application platform; HTML came from content-publishing background and incrementally changes, but current working groups are concentrating on cross-platform apps
16:13:23 <oedipus> CW: both API and format -- continuing need for someone in W3C to investigate this issue in detail, not ad hoc
16:14:27 <oedipus> CW: what do we mean by "rich"?  stems from functionality; definition of "rich" can factor that - not enough to provide graphics (presentation) -- think from MVC PoV it is an application, and each level has its own levels of richness
16:14:58 <oedipus> CW: pre-fill screen intelligently in conformance with past actions, saved preferences, etc. ---  functionality of interactino
16:15:12 <oedipus> CW: context feedback - what controls are active at any point and time
16:15:25 <oedipus> CW: rich graphics PoV is limited; open discussion of richness
16:15:39 <oedipus> GJR: sounds to me like ARIA for those who don't use AT
16:18:42 <oedipus> CW: performance benefits, accessibility benefits, persistence with local cache
16:19:23 <oedipus> CW: second section to broaden definition of RWA so people don't think about rich graphics, but providing data-, view-, control/logic aspects
16:19:43 <CharlieWiecha> see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Dec/0000.html for paper draft outline
16:19:50 <oedipus> GJR: Rich Web Application equals "Smart" Web Application
16:20:02 <oedipus> CW: how does one build one
16:20:10 <oedipus> CW: architectural patterns
16:20:26 <oedipus> CW: sub-section for each?  just made list of what could think of offhand, so please add
16:20:56 <oedipus> CW: MVC patterns trying to incorporate into ubiquity-xforms -- feeding data by ubiquity binding - MVC pattern
16:21:12 <oedipus> CW: using events coordinated across page so more transparent
16:21:22 <oedipus> CW: Mark Birbeck very keen on this; 
16:21:41 <oedipus> CW: JackJ keen on what he's developed in SMIL paper: implicit coordination pattern
16:21:59 <oedipus> CW: Rahul's submissions pattern - other uses of mechanism (incremental data refresh, etc.)
16:22:11 <oedipus> CW: can fill out sections on patterns
16:22:29 <oedipus> CW: section on problem of platform support: how to deliver XML to client?
16:22:54 <oedipus> CW: javascript as tag library not model for page author - javascript in XML rather than XSLT
16:23:07 <oedipus> CW: ODF implement in client using javascript; vertical standards
16:23:42 <oedipus> CW: XML not data definition, but processing model of life cycle; when have behavior need script library to do that - been traditional problem
16:24:00 <oedipus> CW: bridging what Forms WG doing - how did we get from here to there
16:25:01 <oedipus> GJR: for the sub-section you outlined, i will provide prose as to how one could could repurpose from backend to deliver what is most appropriate/useable
16:28:16 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
16:28:17 <Zakim> -CharlieWiecha
16:28:17 <Zakim> INC_RWAB()11:00AM has ended
16:28:18 <Zakim> Attendees were CharlieWiecha, Gregory_Rosmaita
16:28:25 <oedipus> ADJOURNED
16:28:33 <oedipus> zakim, please part
16:28:33 <Zakim> Zakim has left #backplane
16:28:38 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
16:28:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-backplane-minutes.html oedipus
16:38:54 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
16:38:54 <RRSAgent> I see no action items