19:31:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
19:31:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-irc
19:31:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:31:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:31:11 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM scheduled to start now
19:31:12 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:31:12 <trackbot> Date: 01 December 2008
19:31:44 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has now started
19:31:46 <Zakim> +Shepazu
19:31:48 <Zakim> +??P2
19:31:50 <Zakim> -Shepazu
19:31:51 <Zakim> +Shepazu
19:31:52 <Zakim> +??P1
19:31:52 <heycam> Zakim, ??P2 is me
19:31:54 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
19:32:26 <Zakim> +??P3
19:32:35 <anthony> Zakim, ??P3 is me
19:32:35 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
19:32:39 <heycam> Zakim, mute me
19:32:39 <Zakim> heycam should now be muted
19:32:53 <heycam> Zakim, unmute me
19:32:53 <Zakim> heycam should no longer be muted
19:33:16 <NH> ??P1 is me
19:33:42 <anthony> Zakim, ??P1 is NH
19:33:42 <Zakim> +NH; got it
19:34:06 <NH> Zakim, ??P1 is me
19:34:06 <Zakim> I already had ??P1 as NH, NH
19:34:10 <Zakim> -NH
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19:35:54 <Zakim> +??P1
19:36:10 <ed> Zakim, ??P1 is me
19:36:10 <Zakim> +ed; got it
19:36:24 <ed> Zakim, who's here?
19:36:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shepazu, heycam, anthony, ed
19:36:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see ed, RRSAgent, Zakim, NH, trackbot, heycam, shepazu, anthony, ed_work
19:37:48 <Zakim> +??P4
19:41:08 <shepazu> Zakim, unmute ed 
19:41:08 <Zakim> ed was not muted, shepazu
19:42:12 <anthony> Scribe: anthony
19:42:14 <anthony> Chair: Erik
19:42:21 <anthony> Topic: Selectors API
19:42:34 <anthony> DS: We should address this as early as possible
19:42:55 <anthony> ED: Was there anyone else going to review it?
19:43:00 <anthony> AG: I had an action to review it
19:43:04 <anthony> ... I'll do that today
19:43:51 <anthony> DS: Having looked at why the CSS WG decided to say never mind on that issue
19:44:21 <anthony> ... (namespaces) I inclined to let it go
19:44:29 <anthony> ... what do you guys to think?
19:44:51 <anthony> ... do we really want to the SVG WG to be the group that insists on namespaces
19:45:17 <anthony> ED: To me realistically want namespaces are you going to encounter?
19:45:33 <anthony> ... I can only see SVG and HTML5 as the opportunity to select only SVG or HTML elements
19:46:21 <anthony> ... and it's always possible to use DOM3 XPath if you need arbitrary selection support 
19:46:47 <anthony> DS: If we pushed off namespaces to the second version there is a very good chance
19:46:56 <anthony> ... that people may not support that version
19:47:20 <anthony> CM: For the case of between SVG and HTML
19:47:58 <anthony> ... there is probably use the selector itself and look at the parent to clarify what it is
19:48:59 <anthony> [discussion on how selection works]
19:49:17 <anthony> DS: Lets assume that a version gets implemented that doesn't use namespaces
19:49:30 <anthony> ... I don't think it would be that much harder to implement
19:49:53 <anthony> ... as you're accumulating elements you can always just check the namespace URI attribute/property
19:50:09 <anthony> ... it would be slower, but only if you're using namespaces
19:50:55 <anthony> ... authors can always do the namespace URI check manually, it's just a pain
19:51:09 <anthony> ED: That's why I pushed for an example on the spec on this
19:51:17 <anthony> ... so people can see how to solve the problem
19:51:32 <anthony> DS: I'll have to go back and look through the whole namespaces thing
19:52:16 <anthony> ... David Barron said that someone had a spec with name spaces, and he argued to 
19:52:25 <anthony> s/to/that/
19:52:27 <ed> spec or impl?
19:52:33 <anthony> ... it would go to rec quicker
19:52:56 <heycam> s/Barron/Baron/
19:53:03 <anthony> ... I don't know why they dropped it
19:53:17 <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Nov/0538.html
19:56:13 <anthony> CM: Do you know which implementations support CCS3 namespaces?
19:57:02 <heycam> s/CCS/CSS/
19:57:07 <anthony> ... just wondering the complexity is because of implementing namespace support in CSS in general or the NS resolve stuff in the Selectors API?
19:57:15 <anthony> DS: Not sure
19:57:16 <heycam> s/NS resolve/NSResolver/
19:57:35 <anthony> ED: I haven't looked into this I know that Opera has implemented some of this
19:58:16 <anthony> ... not in my hands to implement, but it would be quite simple to do
19:58:29 <anthony> ... the NSResolvers look fairly simple to me
20:00:13 <anthony> DS: I'll talk to Lochi and Boris and look at the rationale as why namespaces was removed
20:00:43 <anthony> ACTION: Doug to Investigate why namespaces was removed
20:00:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2364 - Investigate why namespaces was removed [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-08].
20:00:52 <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008JulSep/0115.html
20:01:48 <anthony> DS: This seems to be the point at where Lochi says to remove it
20:02:04 <anthony> ... so maybe we should our comments in on Thursday instead
20:02:08 <anthony> ED: That would be good
20:03:19 <anthony> Topic: Errata
20:03:22 <heycam> s/Lochi/Lachy/
20:03:28 <heycam> s/Lochi/Lachy/g
20:04:59 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0411.html
20:07:16 <anthony> CM: That looks like what we want
20:08:11 <anthony> ... should change "For example" to e.g.
20:08:42 <anthony> DS: I tried to word it in such a way that implementors could derive the value for boundingbox
20:09:07 <anthony> ED: I like the first paragraph there with the clippath and the boundingbox
20:09:34 <anthony> DS: It solves two issues what the boundingbox should be and where pointer events should occur
20:10:40 <anthony> DS: How are we going to make the new spec?
20:10:46 <anthony> AG: How do you mean?
20:11:12 <anthony> DS: Are we going to make a new build process like Tiny 1.2 or are we going to do it manually?
20:11:36 <anthony> CM: Probably manually
20:13:05 <anthony> DS: Anthony can you make the changes please. Typos are "and" to "an" and "e.g" to "i.e"
20:14:06 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#clippath-pointer-events
20:14:16 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#clippath-pointer-events
20:16:39 <shepazu> http://www.svg-whiz.com/svg/HideShow.svg
20:18:01 <ed> Zakim, who's here?
20:18:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shepazu, heycam, anthony, ed, ??P4
20:18:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see ed, RRSAgent, Zakim, NH, trackbot, heycam, shepazu, anthony, ed_work
20:18:36 <ed> Zakim, ??P4 is NH
20:18:36 <Zakim> +NH; got it
20:18:37 <anthony> ACTION: Anthony to Adds Doug proposed wording to the errata and make changes as discussed
20:18:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2365 - Adds Doug proposed wording to the errata and make changes as discussed [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-12-08].
20:19:18 <anthony> ACTION: Doug to Follow up errata proposal on the Email list to say that pointer events and clipping have been resolved
20:19:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2366 - Follow up errata proposal on the Email list to say that pointer events and clipping have been resolved [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-08].
20:24:01 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0408.html
20:24:31 <anthony> ED: We did get an email from Niklas clamping of rx and ry values
20:24:37 <anthony> ... just wondering if we should errata this
20:25:02 <anthony> ... so I did start writing a new test for this particular issue
20:25:13 <anthony> ... from the testing so far we have more than two ways of doing it
20:25:24 <anthony> ... testing browsers
20:26:01 <anthony> AG: Did we specify anything in Tiny?
20:26:09 <anthony> ED: I think it was lifted from 1.1
20:26:28 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0409.html
20:26:46 <anthony> NH: In emailed a second test 
20:26:54 <anthony> ED: It does seem to make sense
20:27:12 <anthony> ... So maybe we should discuss briefly which way is more appropriate
20:27:33 <anthony> ... it is difficult to read from the spec which right way
20:28:23 <anthony> NH: I think we have two options either we to assign ry if it's not specified and clamp that
20:28:36 <anthony> ... or you should clamp all the way as my last email says
20:28:56 <anthony> ED: Do you have a preference
20:29:04 <anthony> NH: Actually it doesn't really matter for me
20:29:17 <anthony> ... easiest way would be to not clamp "ry"
20:29:38 <anthony> AG: I think in this case what is most intuitive when it comes to authoring
20:29:56 <anthony> ED: For for authoring I'd expect to be whatever is clamped for rx and ry
20:30:21 <anthony> ... then I'd expect that value to be used for the other attribute (not specified)
20:30:34 <anthony> NH: It's not that obvious
20:34:13 <anthony> ACTION: Erik to Propose an errata item for rx and ry
20:34:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2367 - Propose an errata item for rx and ry [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-12-08].
20:38:06 <anthony> ED: We can look at the current translate and current scale errata
20:38:10 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#currenttranslate-currentscale-nested-svg
20:38:12 <anthony> ... it has a resolution
20:40:46 <anthony> ... looks like Doug raised this
20:40:55 <anthony> DS: Not sure what the spec says right now
20:41:15 <anthony> ED: Probably only need to do changes in the structure chapter
20:42:27 <anthony> ACTION: Doug to Propose wording for the change that addresses the errata item Current Translate Current Scale on nested SVG
20:42:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2368 - Propose wording for the change that addresses the errata item Current Translate Current Scale on nested SVG [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-08].
20:43:22 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#errata
20:44:11 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#bzwidth
20:45:33 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2005May/0022.html
20:45:34 <anthony> ED: There are no links there 
20:45:38 <anthony> ... would be useful
20:45:47 <anthony> ... This is probably the start of it
20:46:53 <anthony> ... Might be a good idea to go through
20:47:04 <anthony> ... and find out if Tiny fixed this
20:47:25 <anthony> DS: We should give this serious thought about how this interacts with CSS
20:47:50 <anthony> ... we should start coordinating on little issues like this
20:48:02 <anthony> ... will help create a better working relationship with CSS
20:48:26 <anthony> ... The SVG spec should say what the width and height are and should also allow authors to use that more usefully
20:50:51 <anthony> ED: There were some changes in Firefox and Opera where the width and height on the SVG were ignored if the SVG was being used in an object tag
20:51:03 <anthony> ... we should definitely try to specify it better
20:52:16 <ed> if there was width and height AND a viewbox...and the object had width and height...IIRC
20:52:36 <anthony> ACTION: Doug to Investigate if WICD addresses some of the issues about scaling size interaction between SVG and CSS
20:52:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2369 - Investigate if WICD addresses some of the issues about scaling size interaction between SVG and CSS [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-08].
20:53:47 <anthony> ACTION: Erik to Go through the e-mailing thread for errata item "Sizing of the outermost svg" and update the item discussion
20:53:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2370 - Go through the e-mailing thread for errata item \"Sizing of the outermost svg\" and update the item discussion [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-12-08].
20:56:07 <anthony> <?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="../../../tools/errata/errata2xhtml.xsl"?>
20:56:52 <anthony> application/xslt+xml
20:59:54 <Zakim> -heycam
20:59:56 <Zakim> -ed
20:59:58 <Zakim> -anthony
20:59:59 <Zakim> -NH
21:00:19 <Zakim> -Shepazu
21:00:20 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has ended
21:00:21 <Zakim> Attendees were Shepazu, heycam, anthony, NH, ed
21:00:27 <anthony> Zakim, bye
21:00:27 <Zakim> Zakim has left #svg
21:00:34 <anthony> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:00:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html anthony
21:01:41 <shepazu> ed: is there a published API for your bug tracker?
21:03:03 <ed> shepazu: what type of api?
21:04:31 <shepazu> well, some way of filing a bug with a script, and getting followups and responses back out (if you ever open it up to public)
21:05:43 <ed> bugs.opera.com, or bugs.opera.com/wizard is what's there now
21:06:26 <ed> unfortunately it's still sort of a black hole to the public
21:07:38 <shepazu> lhc?
21:09:00 <ed> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lhc
21:09:28 <shepazu> lol
21:09:57 <ed> the system is called JIRA, there might be some existing tools that interact with it
21:10:04 <ed> http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/
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