14:57:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
14:57:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/27-bpwg-irc
14:57:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:03 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #bpwg
14:57:05 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be BPWG
14:57:05 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:06 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
14:57:06 <trackbot> Date: 27 November 2008
14:58:30 <francois> Regrets: AlanC, rob, Bryan, SeanP, jo, dom
14:58:34 <cgi-irc> cgi-irc has joined #bpwg
14:58:46 <francois> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Nov/0061.html
14:58:50 <francois> Chair: DKA
14:58:57 <yeliz> yeliz has joined #bpwg
14:59:42 <DKA> Are we ready to rumble?
14:59:47 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has now started
14:59:54 <Zakim> +Andrei_Popescu
15:00:08 <Zakim> +DKA
15:00:15 <DKA> zakim, who's here?
15:00:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andrei_Popescu, DKA
15:00:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see yeliz, cgi-irc, Zakim, RRSAgent, DKA, brucel, francois, trackbot, dom
15:00:30 <DKA> zakim, Andrei is Adam
15:00:30 <Zakim> +Adam; got it
15:00:35 <DKA> zakim, who's here?
15:00:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Adam, DKA
15:00:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see yeliz, cgi-irc, Zakim, RRSAgent, DKA, brucel, francois, trackbot, dom
15:00:55 <Zakim> +Bruce
15:01:35 <Zakim> +Francois
15:04:15 <Zakim> + +2
15:04:19 <yeliz> zakim, +2 is yeliz
15:04:19 <Zakim> +yeliz; got it
15:04:36 <Zakim> +Kai_Dietrich
15:04:41 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
15:04:41 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
15:04:56 <abel> abel has joined #bpwg
15:05:06 <Zakim> +berrueta
15:05:15 <abel> zakim, berrueta is me
15:05:15 <Zakim> +abel; got it
15:05:35 <abel> zakim, miguel is with me
15:05:35 <Zakim> +miguel; got it
15:05:45 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
15:05:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see Adam, DKA, Bruce, Francois, yeliz (muted), Kai_Dietrich, abel
15:05:47 <Zakim> abel has abel, miguel
15:05:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see abel, yeliz, cgi-irc, Zakim, RRSAgent, DKA, brucel, francois, trackbot, dom
15:06:40 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
15:06:40 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
15:06:41 <francois> Scribe: Yeliz
15:06:46 <francois> ScribeNick: yeliz
15:07:02 <yeliz> Topic:  Mobile Web Applications Best Practices
15:07:30 <yeliz> DKA: some discussion already on the mailing list, like ARIA
15:07:51 <yeliz> DKA: We can talk about possible schedule for this doc
15:07:58 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/ED-mobile-bp2-20081125 25th November draft of MWABP
15:08:32 <jo> jo has joined #bpwg
15:08:35 <yeliz> DOM: Targeting another working draft would be ideal
15:09:01 <dom> s/DOM/francois/
15:09:08 <yeliz> DKA: We need to figure out the high priority changes
15:09:30 <yeliz> DKA: so that we can have a reasonable resolution for this
15:09:36 <yeliz> Abel: That sounds good
15:09:55 <yeliz> s/Abel /Adam
15:10:06 <yeliz> Adam: Starting from the begining
15:10:31 <yeliz> Adam: 3.1.1 not happy with that
15:10:47 <yeliz> Adam: Don't make the user type information more than once
15:11:04 <yeliz> Adam: I would like to get feedback on that
15:11:32 <yeliz> Adam: Don't store user information on the device, but store token
15:11:37 <DKA> q?
15:11:48 <francois> [ ref. publication moratorium, deadline for the end of the year is 18 december for publication requests ]
15:11:59 <yeliz> Adam: Next change is added something to the security, 2.2 and 2.1
15:12:11 <yeliz> Adam: Quickly going over the changes
15:12:39 <yeliz> Adam: 3.2 changed based on the F2F decision, JSON...
15:12:56 <yeliz> Adam: There are two new ones there and it would be good to make sure that the group is happy
15:13:05 <DKA> q+ to wonder if the JSON items are mobile-specific enough...
15:13:32 <DKA> q+ about spriting images and whether this makes sense on mobile...
15:13:39 <yeliz> Adam: Extra recommendations in  3.4
15:13:51 <yeliz> Adam: so would be good to check those
15:13:55 <DKA> q?
15:14:24 <yeliz> Adam: ...Shortened to user experience
15:14:34 <Kai> Kai has joined #bpwg
15:14:58 <yeliz> Adam: 3.6, long conversation with Jeff, more discussion would be good
15:15:04 <yeliz> Adam: Changes in lots of places
15:15:13 <Kai> rrsagents, draft minutes
15:15:25 <jo> q+ to point Dan to Bryan Rieger's presentation about spriting at last April(?) MoMo London
15:15:32 <Kai> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:15:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/27-bpwg-minutes.html Kai
15:16:21 <yeliz> DKA: Have a question on "" for memory constraint environment, are you giving up something in terms of image resolution
15:16:29 <yeliz> Adam: That's a valid issue
15:16:44 <yeliz> Adam: I added this from Yahoo recommendation and Google as well
15:17:23 <yeliz> Adam: It's really valuable, what counts as the higher-end device, not sure about the limits of lower-end device
15:17:43 <francois> ack DKA
15:17:43 <Zakim> DKA, you wanted to wonder if the JSON items are mobile-specific enough...
15:18:03 <yeliz> Adam: Not sure if it will next year..
15:18:55 <yeliz> Adam: We discussed at F2F, JSON is a good idea, but  agree is a strong statement
15:18:57 <jo> q-
15:19:02 <jo> jo has left #bpwg
15:19:14 <DKA> DKA: Wondering about 3.4.16 - recommending against use of XML for datafeeds.
15:19:14 <yeliz> Adam: may we want to rephrase
15:19:40 <yeliz> Adam: Trying to make it clearer, rather than you can do this or can do that
15:19:41 <DKA> q?
15:19:54 <yeliz> Adam: I would rather be precise
15:19:54 <DKA> Jo did you have a comment you wanted to put into IRC?
15:20:10 <yeliz> Zakim, unmute yeliz
15:20:10 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
15:21:11 <yeliz> Bruce: it's better to tell the truth rather to then to tell something unambiguously
15:21:17 <yeliz> DKA: Come back to JSON
15:21:22 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
15:21:22 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
15:22:05 <yeliz> DKA: are they mobile specific ones?
15:22:36 <yeliz> DKA: if they can be justified then we can keep them
15:23:11 <yeliz> DKA: if we accept JSON then we should say that
15:23:31 <yeliz> DKA: we can define in Web protocols section of the document..
15:24:03 <Kai_> Kai_ has joined #bpwg
15:24:11 <yeliz> DKA: I also have some wording and editorial comments (to be in more readable form) like how to do 3.2.2
15:24:22 <yeliz> DKA: might be good to include an example
15:24:27 <Kai_> zakim, Kai_ is Kai
15:24:27 <Zakim> +Kai; got it
15:24:35 <yeliz> DKA: may be some references, etc.
15:24:48 <DKA> q?
15:24:53 <yeliz> DKA: If there is a JSON doc, then refer to that
15:25:14 <yeliz> Bruce: Write a comment about ARIA
15:25:22 <yeliz> Bruce: to the mailing list
15:25:50 <yeliz> DKA: This document tells what developers should do with the current technologies
15:26:05 <yeliz> Bruce: my suggestion is not implemented, but I thought it would be good
15:26:50 <yeliz> Bruce: I agree that it's not a best practice
15:27:01 <yeliz> DKA: is there something from ARIA that we can suggest?
15:27:25 <nacho> nacho has joined #bpwg
15:28:03 <yeliz> Bruce: You could use the built in landmark role, secondary nav or search box
15:28:22 <yeliz> Bruce: again they are nice ideas and not have been implemented, not in good shape for BP
15:28:52 <francois> q+
15:29:30 <DKA> ack francois
15:29:44 <yeliz> Francois: I don't have many more comments
15:29:58 <yeliz> Francois: I agree with your editorial comments
15:31:05 <yeliz> Francois: Currently we have "what it means" and "how to doi it", may be we should have something that says "when we should do it", more context would be good
15:31:09 <yeliz> DKa: example?
15:31:42 <yeliz> DKA: 3.1.1 What kind of menus are available?
15:32:26 <yeliz> DKA: Make that decision on the server side, what information is required to make that decision?
15:33:38 <yeliz> DKA: Here is the information you need to make the decision
15:34:17 <abel> abel has joined #bpwg
15:34:46 <yeliz> DKA: very least we should say "if you don't have enough information then use..."
15:35:33 <yeliz> Adam: Not sure about this BP
15:35:43 <yeliz> Adam: How much detail to provide?
15:35:58 <yeliz> DKA: shouldn't shy away from telling the obvious
15:37:02 <yeliz> Francois: Example for my previous comment is 3.1...., it feels like that you can do it anytime, but that's not the case.
15:37:24 <yeliz> Francois: in the right direction...But more details here and there would be good
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15:41:19 <yeliz> DKA: Many of best practices in this document requires specific information about the device
15:41:28 <francois> q+
15:41:30 <yeliz> DKA: different techniques,...
15:42:00 <yeliz> DKA: can be used to obtain device information....It would be good to add a parag.
15:42:16 <yeliz> Francois: 3.6.1 alreadytalks about that
15:42:32 <yeliz> Francois: It might be good to change the ordering
15:43:33 <yeliz> Francois: content adaptation is needed, the old Web cannot be used in mobile Web
15:43:52 <yeliz> Francois: It doesn't go against any principle
15:44:26 <yeliz> Adam: It's true that adaptation is important, but is it getting less true?
15:46:28 <yeliz> Adam: I agree that 3.6.1 has problems and we need to look at again
15:46:52 <DKA> q?
15:46:57 <yeliz> DKA: would be good to seek feedback about that and see what people think is the good practice
15:46:57 <DKA> ack franco
15:47:29 <yeliz> Francois: I agree, it doesn't make sense as a BP
15:47:49 <yeliz> Adam: 3.6.2 would makes sense in ...
15:48:03 <yeliz> Adam: in another section 1.4
15:48:33 <yeliz> DKA: get community feedback on that
15:49:33 <yeliz> Adam: I have more open-questions
15:49:50 <yeliz> Adam: I will write an email to summarise the list of changes that I need to make
15:50:00 <francois> [ ref. publication moratorium, deadline for the end of the year is 18 december for publication requests ]
15:50:16 <yeliz> Francois: We have three weeks
15:50:38 <yeliz> DKA: Need to have a resolution on the 11th of Dec
15:52:00 <yeliz> Francois: I will send my editorial comments
15:52:06 <yeliz> Francois: a few typos
15:52:11 <yeliz> Topic: Seoul F2F Proposal and general F2F issues...
15:53:03 <yeliz> Francois: W3C team is limited in the number of travels
15:53:51 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Unfortunately, due to travel issues and the unavailability of some specific people, we will respectfully decline the Korean W3C Office's invitation for our next face to face at this time.
15:54:23 <francois> +1
15:54:26 <DKA> +1
15:54:41 <yeliz> ROPOSED RESOLUTION: Unfortunately, due to travel issues and the unavailability of some specific people, we will respectfully decline the Korean W3C Office's invitation for our next face to face at this time.
15:54:54 <nacho> +0
15:54:58 <yeliz> RESOLUTION: Unfortunately, due to travel issues and the unavailability of some specific people, we will respectfully decline the Korean W3C Office's invitation for our next face to face at this time.
15:55:13 <cgi-irc> +1
15:55:47 <DKA> For the record - I still hope we can do a Korean f2f later in 2009.
15:55:55 <yeliz> DKA: Having a meeting in Korea would be good but unfortunately it is a reasonable time...
15:56:18 <yeliz> s/ reasonable /unreasonable
15:57:39 <yeliz> Topic:  MobileOK Basic Tests
15:57:50 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
15:57:50 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
16:01:09 <yeliz> Francois: BP - may be we can up with another working draft by the end of this year
16:01:35 <yeliz> Francois: Main thing is to review the document, before we have another call
16:02:51 <Zakim> -Kai
16:02:53 <nacho> bye
16:02:53 <Zakim> -DKA
16:02:55 <Zakim> -Bruce
16:02:55 <Zakim> -Adam
16:03:12 <Zakim> -abel
16:03:26 <abel> abel has left #bpwg
16:03:39 <Zakim> -Francois
16:03:41 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended
16:03:43 <Zakim> Attendees were Andrei_Popescu, DKA, Adam, Bruce, Francois, yeliz, Kai_Dietrich, abel, miguel, nacho, Kai, manrique
16:08:56 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:08:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/27-bpwg-minutes.html francois
16:13:53 <yeliz> yeliz has left #bpwg
16:16:18 <brucel> brucel has left #bpwg
17:22:13 <francois> RRSAgent, bye
17:22:14 <RRSAgent> I see no action items