IRC log of bpwg on 2008-11-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:57:01 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
14:57:01 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/27-bpwg-irc
14:57:03 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:03 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #bpwg
14:57:05 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be BPWG
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ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:06 [trackbot]
Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
14:57:06 [trackbot]
Date: 27 November 2008
14:58:30 [francois]
Regrets: AlanC, rob, Bryan, SeanP, jo, dom
14:58:34 [cgi-irc]
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14:58:46 [francois]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Nov/0061.html
14:58:50 [francois]
Chair: DKA
14:58:57 [yeliz]
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14:59:42 [DKA]
Are we ready to rumble?
14:59:47 [Zakim]
MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has now started
14:59:54 [Zakim]
+Andrei_Popescu
15:00:08 [Zakim]
+DKA
15:00:15 [DKA]
zakim, who's here?
15:00:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Andrei_Popescu, DKA
15:00:16 [Zakim]
On IRC I see yeliz, cgi-irc, Zakim, RRSAgent, DKA, brucel, francois, trackbot, dom
15:00:30 [DKA]
zakim, Andrei is Adam
15:00:30 [Zakim]
+Adam; got it
15:00:35 [DKA]
zakim, who's here?
15:00:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Adam, DKA
15:00:36 [Zakim]
On IRC I see yeliz, cgi-irc, Zakim, RRSAgent, DKA, brucel, francois, trackbot, dom
15:00:55 [Zakim]
+Bruce
15:01:35 [Zakim]
+Francois
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+ +2
15:04:19 [yeliz]
zakim, +2 is yeliz
15:04:19 [Zakim]
+yeliz; got it
15:04:36 [Zakim]
+Kai_Dietrich
15:04:41 [yeliz]
zakim, mute yeliz
15:04:41 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
15:04:56 [abel]
abel has joined #bpwg
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+berrueta
15:05:15 [abel]
zakim, berrueta is me
15:05:15 [Zakim]
+abel; got it
15:05:35 [abel]
zakim, miguel is with me
15:05:35 [Zakim]
+miguel; got it
15:05:45 [DKA]
zakim, who is here?
15:05:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Adam, DKA, Bruce, Francois, yeliz (muted), Kai_Dietrich, abel
15:05:47 [Zakim]
abel has abel, miguel
15:05:48 [Zakim]
On IRC I see abel, yeliz, cgi-irc, Zakim, RRSAgent, DKA, brucel, francois, trackbot, dom
15:06:15 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute yeliz
15:06:15 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
15:06:40 [yeliz]
zakim, mute yeliz
15:06:40 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
15:06:41 [francois]
Scribe: Yeliz
15:06:46 [francois]
ScribeNick: yeliz
15:07:02 [yeliz]
Topic: Mobile Web Applications Best Practices
15:07:30 [yeliz]
DKA: some discussion already on the mailing list, like ARIA
15:07:51 [yeliz]
DKA: We can talk about possible schedule for this doc
15:07:58 [francois]
-> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/ED-mobile-bp2-20081125 25th November draft of MWABP
15:08:32 [jo]
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15:08:35 [yeliz]
DOM: Targeting another working draft would be ideal
15:09:01 [dom]
s/DOM/francois/
15:09:08 [yeliz]
DKA: We need to figure out the high priority changes
15:09:30 [yeliz]
DKA: so that we can have a reasonable resolution for this
15:09:36 [yeliz]
Abel: That sounds good
15:09:55 [yeliz]
s/Abel /Adam
15:10:06 [yeliz]
Adam: Starting from the begining
15:10:31 [yeliz]
Adam: 3.1.1 not happy with that
15:10:47 [yeliz]
Adam: Don't make the user type information more than once
15:11:04 [yeliz]
Adam: I would like to get feedback on that
15:11:32 [yeliz]
Adam: Don't store user information on the device, but store token
15:11:37 [DKA]
q?
15:11:48 [francois]
[ ref. publication moratorium, deadline for the end of the year is 18 december for publication requests ]
15:11:59 [yeliz]
Adam: Next change is added something to the security, 2.2 and 2.1
15:12:11 [yeliz]
Adam: Quickly going over the changes
15:12:39 [yeliz]
Adam: 3.2 changed based on the F2F decision, JSON...
15:12:56 [yeliz]
Adam: There are two new ones there and it would be good to make sure that the group is happy
15:13:05 [DKA]
q+ to wonder if the JSON items are mobile-specific enough...
15:13:32 [DKA]
q+ about spriting images and whether this makes sense on mobile...
15:13:39 [yeliz]
Adam: Extra recommendations in 3.4
15:13:51 [yeliz]
Adam: so would be good to check those
15:13:55 [DKA]
q?
15:14:24 [yeliz]
Adam: ...Shortened to user experience
15:14:34 [Kai]
Kai has joined #bpwg
15:14:58 [yeliz]
Adam: 3.6, long conversation with Jeff, more discussion would be good
15:15:04 [yeliz]
Adam: Changes in lots of places
15:15:13 [Kai]
rrsagents, draft minutes
15:15:25 [jo]
q+ to point Dan to Bryan Rieger's presentation about spriting at last April(?) MoMo London
15:15:32 [Kai]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:15:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/27-bpwg-minutes.html Kai
15:16:21 [yeliz]
DKA: Have a question on "" for memory constraint environment, are you giving up something in terms of image resolution
15:16:29 [yeliz]
Adam: That's a valid issue
15:16:44 [yeliz]
Adam: I added this from Yahoo recommendation and Google as well
15:17:23 [yeliz]
Adam: It's really valuable, what counts as the higher-end device, not sure about the limits of lower-end device
15:17:43 [francois]
ack DKA
15:17:43 [Zakim]
DKA, you wanted to wonder if the JSON items are mobile-specific enough...
15:18:03 [yeliz]
Adam: Not sure if it will next year..
15:18:55 [yeliz]
Adam: We discussed at F2F, JSON is a good idea, but agree is a strong statement
15:18:57 [jo]
q-
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jo has left #bpwg
15:19:14 [DKA]
DKA: Wondering about 3.4.16 - recommending against use of XML for datafeeds.
15:19:14 [yeliz]
Adam: may we want to rephrase
15:19:40 [yeliz]
Adam: Trying to make it clearer, rather than you can do this or can do that
15:19:41 [DKA]
q?
15:19:54 [yeliz]
Adam: I would rather be precise
15:19:54 [DKA]
Jo did you have a comment you wanted to put into IRC?
15:20:10 [yeliz]
Zakim, unmute yeliz
15:20:10 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
15:21:11 [yeliz]
Bruce: it's better to tell the truth rather to then to tell something unambiguously
15:21:17 [yeliz]
DKA: Come back to JSON
15:21:22 [yeliz]
zakim, mute yeliz
15:21:22 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
15:22:05 [yeliz]
DKA: are they mobile specific ones?
15:22:36 [yeliz]
DKA: if they can be justified then we can keep them
15:23:11 [yeliz]
DKA: if we accept JSON then we should say that
15:23:31 [yeliz]
DKA: we can define in Web protocols section of the document..
15:24:03 [Kai_]
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15:24:11 [yeliz]
DKA: I also have some wording and editorial comments (to be in more readable form) like how to do 3.2.2
15:24:22 [yeliz]
DKA: might be good to include an example
15:24:27 [Kai_]
zakim, Kai_ is Kai
15:24:27 [Zakim]
+Kai; got it
15:24:35 [yeliz]
DKA: may be some references, etc.
15:24:48 [DKA]
q?
15:24:53 [yeliz]
DKA: If there is a JSON doc, then refer to that
15:25:14 [yeliz]
Bruce: Write a comment about ARIA
15:25:22 [yeliz]
Bruce: to the mailing list
15:25:50 [yeliz]
DKA: This document tells what developers should do with the current technologies
15:26:05 [yeliz]
Bruce: my suggestion is not implemented, but I thought it would be good
15:26:50 [yeliz]
Bruce: I agree that it's not a best practice
15:27:01 [yeliz]
DKA: is there something from ARIA that we can suggest?
15:27:25 [nacho]
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15:28:03 [yeliz]
Bruce: You could use the built in landmark role, secondary nav or search box
15:28:22 [yeliz]
Bruce: again they are nice ideas and not have been implemented, not in good shape for BP
15:28:52 [francois]
q+
15:29:30 [DKA]
ack francois
15:29:44 [yeliz]
Francois: I don't have many more comments
15:29:58 [yeliz]
Francois: I agree with your editorial comments
15:31:05 [yeliz]
Francois: Currently we have "what it means" and "how to doi it", may be we should have something that says "when we should do it", more context would be good
15:31:09 [yeliz]
DKa: example?
15:31:42 [yeliz]
DKA: 3.1.1 What kind of menus are available?
15:32:26 [yeliz]
DKA: Make that decision on the server side, what information is required to make that decision?
15:33:38 [yeliz]
DKA: Here is the information you need to make the decision
15:34:17 [abel]
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15:34:46 [yeliz]
DKA: very least we should say "if you don't have enough information then use..."
15:35:33 [yeliz]
Adam: Not sure about this BP
15:35:43 [yeliz]
Adam: How much detail to provide?
15:35:58 [yeliz]
DKA: shouldn't shy away from telling the obvious
15:37:02 [yeliz]
Francois: Example for my previous comment is 3.1...., it feels like that you can do it anytime, but that's not the case.
15:37:24 [yeliz]
Francois: in the right direction...But more details here and there would be good
15:40:00 [jsmanrique]
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15:41:19 [yeliz]
DKA: Many of best practices in this document requires specific information about the device
15:41:28 [francois]
q+
15:41:30 [yeliz]
DKA: different techniques,...
15:42:00 [yeliz]
DKA: can be used to obtain device information....It would be good to add a parag.
15:42:16 [yeliz]
Francois: 3.6.1 alreadytalks about that
15:42:32 [yeliz]
Francois: It might be good to change the ordering
15:43:33 [yeliz]
Francois: content adaptation is needed, the old Web cannot be used in mobile Web
15:43:52 [yeliz]
Francois: It doesn't go against any principle
15:44:26 [yeliz]
Adam: It's true that adaptation is important, but is it getting less true?
15:46:28 [yeliz]
Adam: I agree that 3.6.1 has problems and we need to look at again
15:46:52 [DKA]
q?
15:46:57 [yeliz]
DKA: would be good to seek feedback about that and see what people think is the good practice
15:46:57 [DKA]
ack franco
15:47:29 [yeliz]
Francois: I agree, it doesn't make sense as a BP
15:47:49 [yeliz]
Adam: 3.6.2 would makes sense in ...
15:48:03 [yeliz]
Adam: in another section 1.4
15:48:33 [yeliz]
DKA: get community feedback on that
15:49:33 [yeliz]
Adam: I have more open-questions
15:49:50 [yeliz]
Adam: I will write an email to summarise the list of changes that I need to make
15:50:00 [francois]
[ ref. publication moratorium, deadline for the end of the year is 18 december for publication requests ]
15:50:16 [yeliz]
Francois: We have three weeks
15:50:38 [yeliz]
DKA: Need to have a resolution on the 11th of Dec
15:52:00 [yeliz]
Francois: I will send my editorial comments
15:52:06 [yeliz]
Francois: a few typos
15:52:11 [yeliz]
Topic: Seoul F2F Proposal and general F2F issues...
15:53:03 [yeliz]
Francois: W3C team is limited in the number of travels
15:53:51 [DKA]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Unfortunately, due to travel issues and the unavailability of some specific people, we will respectfully decline the Korean W3C Office's invitation for our next face to face at this time.
15:54:23 [francois]
+1
15:54:26 [DKA]
+1
15:54:41 [yeliz]
ROPOSED RESOLUTION: Unfortunately, due to travel issues and the unavailability of some specific people, we will respectfully decline the Korean W3C Office's invitation for our next face to face at this time.
15:54:54 [nacho]
+0
15:54:58 [yeliz]
RESOLUTION: Unfortunately, due to travel issues and the unavailability of some specific people, we will respectfully decline the Korean W3C Office's invitation for our next face to face at this time.
15:55:13 [cgi-irc]
+1
15:55:47 [DKA]
For the record - I still hope we can do a Korean f2f later in 2009.
15:55:55 [yeliz]
DKA: Having a meeting in Korea would be good but unfortunately it is a reasonable time...
15:56:18 [yeliz]
s/ reasonable /unreasonable
15:57:39 [yeliz]
Topic: MobileOK Basic Tests
15:57:50 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute yeliz
15:57:50 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
16:01:09 [yeliz]
Francois: BP - may be we can up with another working draft by the end of this year
16:01:35 [yeliz]
Francois: Main thing is to review the document, before we have another call
16:02:51 [Zakim]
-Kai
16:02:53 [nacho]
bye
16:02:53 [Zakim]
-DKA
16:02:55 [Zakim]
-Bruce
16:02:55 [Zakim]
-Adam
16:03:12 [Zakim]
-abel
16:03:26 [abel]
abel has left #bpwg
16:03:39 [Zakim]
-Francois
16:03:41 [Zakim]
MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended
16:03:43 [Zakim]
Attendees were Andrei_Popescu, DKA, Adam, Bruce, Francois, yeliz, Kai_Dietrich, abel, miguel, nacho, Kai, manrique
16:08:56 [francois]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:08:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/27-bpwg-minutes.html francois
16:13:53 [yeliz]
yeliz has left #bpwg
16:16:18 [brucel]
brucel has left #bpwg
17:22:13 [francois]
RRSAgent, bye
17:22:14 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items