14:43:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
14:44:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-irc
14:44:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:44:01 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #xhtml
14:44:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2
14:44:03 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:44:04 <trackbot> Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
14:44:04 <trackbot> Date: 26 November 2008
14:44:18 <oedipus> regrets: Tina_Holcombe,Alessio_Cartocci
14:44:18 <oedipus> previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/11/19-xhtml-minuts.html
14:44:18 <oedipus> Agenda Tracker: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/agenda
14:44:24 <oedipus> Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
14:44:28 <oedipus> ScribeNick: oedipus
14:44:33 <oedipus> Chair: Roland_Merrick
14:44:36 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
14:44:40 <Zakim> +ShaneM
14:44:43 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
14:44:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
14:44:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:45:29 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #xhtml
14:45:29 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
14:45:29 <Roland> Roland has joined #xhtml
14:45:49 <Roland> trackbot, start telcon
14:45:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:45:53 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2
14:45:53 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM already started
14:45:54 <trackbot> Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
14:45:54 <trackbot> Date: 26 November 2008
14:46:16 <Roland> ta
14:46:34 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes
14:46:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
14:47:03 <oedipus> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0024.html
14:47:27 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
14:47:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
14:48:20 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:48:20 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:48:22 <Zakim> +Steven
14:48:43 <mgylling> thanks
14:49:58 <Zakim> +Roland
14:50:04 <oedipus> zakim, who is here?
14:50:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller], ShaneM, Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, Roland
14:50:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see Roland, ShaneM, Zakim, RRSAgent, mgylling, Steven, oedipus, trackbot
14:50:35 <mgylling> yeah I am IPing
14:50:52 <Steven> zakim, [IP is mgylling
14:50:52 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it
14:51:09 <oedipus> TOPIC: Introductions & Brief Items
14:52:13 <oedipus> MG: Chief Technical Officer at DAISY consortium (http://www.daisy.org) - sets international standard for digital talking books - primarily blind and visually disabled; been a NISO standard since 2002; now want to change code base by 2010
14:52:45 <oedipus> MG: would like to use XHTML2 as host grammar for series of profiles and hybrid documents
14:53:06 <Steven> Sounds fantastic
14:53:12 <oedipus> MG: following XHTML2 since inception; one of the most poetic of the specs i've read; here to help in any way i can
14:53:31 <oedipus> MG: DAISY has always used W3C SMIL for presentation
14:53:41 <oedipus> MG: SMIL3 has dedicated DAISY profile
14:54:23 <oedipus> SP: in what respect does XHTML2 meet DAISY's requirements; accessibility always major aim of XHTML2, but anything that sticks out as being particularly useful
14:54:44 <oedipus> MG: accessibility definitely one point; Role Module will be made extensive use of
14:56:27 <oedipus> MG: splitting grammar into to parts: master authoring interface with host grammar that is robust enough to act as host for profiles (example: republishing print books) - 1 profile for leisure books, one for work and text books, another for periodicals; need an underlying host grammar, and XHTML2 is ideal for us; XHTML 1.1 too narrow for our basic needs in terms of structure; XHTML2 is the "great cleanup" of XHTML 1.1
14:56:45 <oedipus> MG: XHTML2 modularity; concept model is stringent and structured enough for us to reuse it
14:57:05 <oedipus> SP: have in past gotten a lot of criticism for changes made, so good to hear when people think got it right
14:57:27 <oedipus> MG: HTML5 makes possible for XHTML2 to remove compromises
14:57:51 <oedipus> SP: correct; haven't finished all discussions, but points of getting rid of compromises, now that HTML5 is being developed in W3C
14:58:05 <oedipus> TOPIC: Oustanding Actions
14:58:14 <oedipus> Agenda Tracker: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/agenda
14:58:27 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions
14:58:53 <oedipus> RM: first 4 "pending review" are shane's
14:59:44 <oedipus> SM: Action 11 - draft policy statement about how we want to migrate modules; circulated and got feedback; i think my action is done (accept christina's comments) then what?  needs to be in prominent location
15:00:01 <oedipus> RM: 2 options: 1. link-to from group page or 2. use wiki
15:00:19 <oedipus> RM: put on MarkUp front page -- needs more perceived stability than a wiki
15:00:27 <oedipus> s/RM: put/SM: put
15:00:30 <oedipus> RM: agree
15:00:50 <oedipus> MG: latest version can be found where?
15:01:24 <oedipus> SM: errata gathering for new edition - proposed by RM in august
15:01:51 <oedipus> SM: is right way to do this is "if we identify errata, we will follow W3C process defined here"
15:02:15 <oedipus> RM: seems fine to me - these things happen, here is pointer to how W3C process works
15:02:31 <oedipus> SM: finish action by adding christina's edits
15:03:17 <oedipus> ACTION: Shane - get draft policy statement about migrating modules on MarkUp front page
15:03:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-36 - - get draft policy statement about migrating modules on MarkUp front page [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-12-03].
15:03:30 <oedipus> TOPIC: XHTML-Mime
15:03:41 <oedipus> SM: updated typos pointed out by RM
15:03:58 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0027.html
15:04:05 <oedipus> SM: additional 1.0 in appendix B
15:04:22 <oedipus> RM: following applies to both; doctype declaration and lang differences between 1.0 and 1.1
15:04:32 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0023.html
15:04:44 <oedipus> SM: before or after?
15:05:10 <oedipus> RM: have it up front most useful - more people use 1.0 - that's why requested example for 1.0
15:05:17 <oedipus> SM: primary examples should be 1.0
15:05:25 <oedipus> RM: yes, shows all features, including @lang
15:05:37 <oedipus> SM: leave current action open - will add note as to what i am doing to it
15:06:12 <oedipus> RM: response to olivier's proposal?
15:06:21 <oedipus> SM: overcome by events; besides, olivier resigned
15:06:30 <oedipus> SP: friday is olivier's last day
15:06:47 <oedipus> RM: are we ready to issue XHTML Mime as new note with changes just discussed
15:06:51 <oedipus> SM: +1
15:06:53 <oedipus> RM: +1
15:06:59 <oedipus> GJR: plus 1 as amended
15:07:01 <Steven> +1
15:07:14 <oedipus> RM: anyone think should NOT push new note?
15:07:51 <oedipus> RESOLVED: publish new XHTML Media Types (xhtml-mime) with edits agreed to at 2008-11-26 meeting
15:07:58 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
15:07:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:09:03 <oedipus> GJR: confusion between title: "XHTML Media Types" and shortname xhtml-mime
15:09:53 <oedipus> SM: 3 issues: long title, ref (in brackets in documents - use XHTML Mime in all specs) - url should be same as old URI - should be xhtml-mime
15:10:04 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/NOTE-xhtml-media-types-20020801/
15:10:15 <oedipus> SP: old URL said note-xhtml-media-types
15:10:53 <oedipus> SM: shouldn't be called XHTML Mime, but XHTML Media Types
15:11:31 <oedipus> RESOLVED: Shane will publish XHTML Mime Types
15:11:54 <oedipus> TOPIC: Action 21 
15:12:15 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0016.html
15:12:30 <oedipus> SM: need to ensure all references point to xhtml-mime
15:12:34 <oedipus> SM: no errata on 1.0
15:12:41 <oedipus> SP: that's amazing
15:12:53 <oedipus> SM: errata in second edition
15:13:41 <oedipus> RESOLVED: close action item 21 and begin request PER for 1.0
15:14:22 <oedipus> SM: if done same for 1.1 and Basic, can we push them too?
15:14:26 <oedipus> RM: need to check as WG
15:15:00 <oedipus> SM: reasonable to record that 1.1 and Basic ready to go to PER Second Editions as soon as review finalized by RM
15:15:23 <oedipus> s/that 1.1 and Basic/ that 1.1, Print, and Basic
15:15:33 <oedipus> RM: waiting on feedback from yam
15:15:37 <oedipus> SP: in process
15:15:44 <Steven> I have the text
15:16:01 <oedipus> RESOLVED: request XHTML 1.1 PER transition
15:16:32 <oedipus> RESOLVED: request XHTML Basic 1.1 PER transition after SP adds text
15:17:27 <oedipus> SP: melinda gave ok?
15:17:29 <oedipus> SM: yes
15:17:32 <oedipus> SP: pointer?
15:18:21 <oedipus> SM: please ask melinda to send something to point to?
15:18:29 <oedipus> GJR: plus 1 to 1.1 Print PER
15:18:40 <oedipus> RESOLVED: request XHTML Print 1.1 PER transition after receiving confirmation from melinda
15:19:12 <oedipus> ACTION: Steven - request transition to PER for XHTML 1.1, XHTML Basic 1.1, and XHTML Print
15:19:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-37 - - request transition to PER for XHTML 1.1, XHTML Basic 1.1, and XHTML Print [on Steven Pemberton - due 2008-12-03].
15:19:44 <oedipus> GJR: is that ok, SP?
15:19:56 <oedipus> SP: will be able to handle small tasks like this during december 2008
15:20:13 <oedipus> RM: just want to get request in - can schedule transition call for january 2009
15:20:56 <oedipus> RM: XHTML 1.0 PER (Third Edition) ready for transition
15:21:17 <oedipus> SP: do we need a comments period?  strictly speaking, no conformance changes, so should sail right through
15:22:02 <oedipus> SM: 1.0 always pointed to Mime Types document; needs to be reissued because of XHTML Mime Types; taken out duplicate material from 1.0 
15:22:44 <oedipus> RESOLVED: XHTML 1.0 PER (Third Edition) ready for request for transition
15:22:49 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
15:22:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:23:13 <oedipus> ACTION: Steven - request transition for XHTML 1.0 PER (Third Edition)
15:23:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-38 - - request transition for XHTML 1.0 PER (Third Edition) [on Steven Pemberton - due 2008-12-03].
15:23:19 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
15:23:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:23:44 <oedipus> TOPIC: Additional Completed Actions
15:24:02 <oedipus> RM: Action 10 - GJR
15:24:14 <oedipus> GJR: no, i have to do data mining - will do after call
15:24:24 <oedipus> RM: action 14 - Shane?
15:24:38 <oedipus> SM: no progress
15:24:46 <oedipus> RM: 22 is done
15:25:58 <oedipus> GJR: action 22 now closed
15:26:24 <oedipus> SM: contacted mark baker about http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/26
15:26:33 <oedipus> SM: RFC left an opening which needs to be plugged
15:27:07 <Steven> 3236
15:27:13 <oedipus> SP: RFC 3236
15:27:19 <Steven> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3236.txt
15:28:10 <oedipus> GJR: action 26 updated with reference to RFC number and URI
15:28:58 <oedipus> SP: disposed of issues surrounding disposition of comments which claimed we rejected it - when we hadn't
15:29:04 <oedipus> SM: made change before call
15:29:18 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0028.html
15:29:33 <oedipus> SM: Access, Role, and CURIEs at same transition call
15:30:00 <oedipus> SM: makes sense to do in one call -- Access and Role both point to CURIEs, so have to change pointers if others go to CR
15:30:15 <oedipus> RM: based on transition call, may have to make editorial changes
15:30:28 <oedipus> SM: need to change Access and Role to point to CR version of CURIEs
15:31:03 <oedipus> TOPIC: Timescale for XHTML2
15:31:16 <oedipus> draft roadmap for XHTML2 for discussion
15:31:16 <oedipus> Latest Draft(s)    : 2002-08 [http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/]
15:31:16 <oedipus> Last Editor's Draft: 2007-10-24 [http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml2-20071024/]
15:31:16 <oedipus> Last Call          : 2009-03
15:31:16 <oedipus> CR                 : 2009-09
15:31:17 <oedipus> PR                 : 2009-12
15:31:19 <oedipus> REC                : 2010-03
15:32:08 <oedipus> RM: have talked about LC for XHTML2 for 2009-03 -- will we try and do another draft before next call
15:32:10 <oedipus> SM: yes
15:32:24 <oedipus> RM: estimated date? can we get done before december?
15:32:36 <oedipus> SM: plate cleared for XHTML2
15:32:47 <oedipus> SM: big document, please re-read
15:33:01 <oedipus> RM: shoot for new draft this year; draft to review 2 weeks from today
15:33:58 <oedipus> ACTION: Shane - prepare new draft of XHTML2 for review; have ready to at least walk WG through changes
15:33:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-39 - - prepare new draft of XHTML2 for review; have ready to at least walk WG through changes [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-12-03].
15:34:10 <oedipus> SP: next face 2 face?
15:34:16 <oedipus> RM: february 2009
15:34:36 <oedipus> RM: should allow us to go through document and make decisions during february meeting; next face2face devoted to XHTML2
15:34:56 <oedipus> RESOLVED: next face2face (february 2009) will be dedicated to review and discussion of XHTML2
15:35:11 <oedipus> SP: 3 months of CR is optomistic
15:35:32 <oedipus> s/optomistic/optimistic
15:35:54 <oedipus> SP: CR at 2009-06 have more time for implementation work
15:36:19 <oedipus> RESOLVED: change timeline for XHTML2 to start CR 2009-06
15:36:38 <oedipus> SP: @href everywhere and @src everywhere biggest changes
15:36:55 <oedipus> SP: saw somewhere a javascript implementation of @href everywhere
15:37:12 <oedipus> RM: will amend WG roadmap on WG page
15:38:33 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0018.html
15:38:46 <oedipus> TOPIC: XML Events 2
15:38:49 <Roland> Topic: XML Events 2
15:39:12 <oedipus> RM: replied to comment
15:39:36 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0018.html
15:39:47 <oedipus> RM reply: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0020.html
15:40:22 <ShaneM> I obviously think the summary is perfect.
15:40:39 <oedipus> GJR: plus 1 to RM's suggestion: "I think you have accurately summarised the discussion. I agree that the sentiment seemed to be that we make DOM 2 the baseline for our requirement and that we would expect that DOM 3 will be compatible with DOM 2 so that we define XE 2 such that it works on either and does not require new features of DOM 3"
15:41:17 <oedipus> RM: dependency on DOM3 shaky - what do we want from DOM3 events that we can't get from DOM2?  would it make implementations more difficult?
15:41:36 <oedipus> RM: DOM3 - essential addition: Qnames
15:42:29 <oedipus> RM: don't have direct dependence on Qnames - if they are available, great, but if don't have req for Qnames, can we live without it and set DOM2 as baseline, with assumption that DOM3 superset of DOM2 and would include all that is in DOM2
15:42:32 <oedipus> SP: sounds good
15:43:05 <oedipus> RM: agreement that DOM2 basis to work with?
15:43:22 <oedipus> SP: using DOM3 because in pipleline - nothing in processing model of DOM3 we need not in DOM2
15:43:28 <oedipus> RM: conclusion we came to last week
15:43:53 <oedipus> RM: change XML Events 2 to say "DOM2 and later"
15:44:23 <oedipus> SP: need to report this to HTCG (hypertext coordination group) - this is the sort of change that may or may not affect other groups, should notify them
15:44:35 <oedipus> RM: note to HTC?
15:45:05 <oedipus> ACTION: Roland - notify HTC of change of verbiage to "DOM2 or later" in XML Events 2 
15:45:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-40 - - notify HTC of change of verbiage to \"DOM2 or later\" in XML Events 2  [on Roland Merrick - due 2008-12-03].
15:45:17 <oedipus> RM: other topics?
15:45:35 <oedipus> RM: for those celebrating holiday, happy holiday
15:45:36 <Zakim> -ShaneM
15:45:37 <Zakim> -Roland
15:45:38 <oedipus> ADJOURN
15:45:39 <Zakim> -Steven
15:45:47 <Zakim> -mgylling
15:45:50 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
15:45:51 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
15:45:53 <Zakim> Attendees were ShaneM, [IPcaller], Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, Roland, mgylling
15:45:55 <Roland> Roland has left #xhtml
15:46:25 <oedipus> zakim, please part
15:46:25 <Zakim> Zakim has left #xhtml
15:46:32 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
15:46:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:47:28 <oedipus> present- [IPCaller]
15:47:38 <oedipus> present+ Markus_Gylling
15:47:40 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
15:47:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:48:07 <oedipus> present- [IPcaller]
15:48:09 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
15:48:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:59:28 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
15:59:28 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-actions.rdf :
15:59:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane - get draft policy statement about migrating modules on MarkUp front page [1]
15:59:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-irc#T15-03-17
15:59:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven - request transition to PER for XHTML 1.1, XHTML Basic 1.1, and XHTML Print [2]
15:59:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-irc#T15-19-12
15:59:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven - request transition for XHTML 1.0 PER (Third Edition) [3]
15:59:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-irc#T15-23-13
15:59:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane - prepare new draft of XHTML2 for review; have ready to at least walk WG through changes [4]
15:59:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-irc#T15-33-58
15:59:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Roland - notify HTC of change of verbiage to "DOM2 or later" in XML Events 2  [5]
15:59:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-irc#T15-45-05