15:58:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swd
15:58:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc
15:58:21 <TomB> rrsagent, bookmark
15:58:21 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T15-58-21
15:58:27 <TomB> zakim, this will be swd
15:58:27 <Zakim> ok, TomB, I see SW_SWD()11:00AM already started
15:58:33 <TomB> Meeting: SWD WG
15:58:37 <TomB> Chair: Guus
15:58:42 <Ralph> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:58:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P8
15:59:23 <Ralph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0103.html
15:59:26 <TomB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0103.html
15:59:33 <TomB> zakim, ??P8 is TomB
15:59:33 <Zakim> +TomB; got it
15:59:42 <TomB> :-)
16:00:05 <Zakim> +Ralph
16:00:46 <TomB> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html
16:00:56 <Guus> Guus has joined #swd
16:01:16 <marghe> marghe has joined #swd
16:01:30 <Zakim> +abel
16:01:34 <berrueta> zakim, abel is me
16:01:34 <Zakim> +berrueta; got it
16:01:36 <Zakim> +[LC]
16:01:45 <edsu> Zakim, LC is edsu
16:01:47 <Zakim> +edsu; got it
16:01:50 <TomB> Regrets: Sean
16:02:11 <TomB> rrsagent, please make record public
16:02:31 <Antoine> Antoine has joined #swd
16:03:05 <JonP> JonP has joined #swd
16:03:30 <Zakim> +??P37
16:03:33 <Zakim> +Antoine
16:03:37 <Zakim> +Antoine_Isaac
16:03:51 <dlrubin> dlrubin has joined #swd
16:04:01 <TomB> zakim, ??p37 is Daniel
16:04:01 <Zakim> +Daniel; got it
16:04:03 <Antoine> zakim, Antoine is guus
16:04:03 <Zakim> +guus; got it
16:04:38 <aliman> aliman has joined #swd
16:05:06 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Ralph
16:05:11 <Ralph> Scribe: Ralph
16:05:20 <Zakim> +Margherita_Sini
16:05:30 <Zakim> +??P52
16:05:49 <Ralph> zakim, ??p52 is Aliman
16:05:49 <Zakim> +Aliman; got it
16:05:50 <Guus> zakim, ??p52 is Alistair
16:05:51 <Zakim> I already had ??P52 as Aliman, Guus
16:06:21 <Ralph> Regrets+ Sean, Ben
16:06:33 <Zakim> +Jon_Phipps
16:06:54 <JonP> zakim, Jon_Phipps is me
16:06:54 <Zakim> +JonP; got it
16:06:56 <Ralph> Topic: Admin
16:07:14 <Ralph> RESOLVED to accept minutes of the last telecon: http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html
16:07:30 <Ralph> Topic: RDFa
16:07:49 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben review RDFa Use Cases and propose transition to Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-minutes.html#action02]
16:08:06 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0095.html meeting record: 2008-11-20 RDFa telecon
16:08:14 <Ralph> Topic: Recipes
16:08:24 <Ralph> Diego: Tom sent mail about a broken reference in the document
16:08:45 <Ralph> ... should we publish an updated Note?
16:09:16 <Ralph> Ralph: did we include a link to an errata document?
16:09:23 <TomB> q+ to ask if it is clear what we should cite
16:09:42 <Ralph> Diego: the URI is still served but the document we want has moved
16:10:01 <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to ask if it is clear what we should cite
16:10:31 <Ralph> Tom: it's not clear what the intention of the Tag document is
16:10:49 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0078.html [Recipes] Reference to httpRange-14 [Tom 2008-11-18]
16:11:33 <Ralph> ACTION: Diego write a proposal to republish Recipes with the httpRange-14 reference corrected and a link to an errata document
16:12:22 <Ralph> Topic: RDFa Metadata Note
16:12:50 <Ralph> ACTION: Ralph post his comments on the editor's draft of the metadata note
16:13:08 <Ralph> Diego: I exchanged email with Ivan Herman
16:13:42 <Ralph> ... apart from a couple of technical notes about the content, he said it would be important to let Ian Jacobs and Dominique Hazael-Massieux know of this work
16:14:05 <edsu> +1 for having them review
16:15:04 <Ralph> Ralph: I'd like the WG to produce one more editor's draft before we ask them for their review time
16:15:21 <Ralph> ... not that the document is seriously flawed but I don't think we'll get them to review it many times
16:15:50 <Ralph> Topic: Other Business
16:16:02 <Ralph> Guus: good to see the translations of RDFa Primer and Recipes
16:16:30 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0098.html French translations [Ivan 2008-11-23]
16:17:07 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Guus to look at OWL documents for review [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action10]
16:17:28 <Ralph> Guus: SWD review of CURIE draft - done? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Oct/0214.html
16:17:37 <Ralph> Ralph: I think that's done and CURIE has moved on
16:17:53 <Ralph> Topic: SKOS
16:18:25 <Ralph> Alistair: issues 135, 153, 175, 157, 186
16:18:38 <Ralph> ... these 5 are the only issues for which we have not sent a response
16:18:59 <Ralph> Guus: we still have 34 open issues
16:19:20 <Ralph> Alistair: we have responses back from several commentors that I haven't yet entered into tracker
16:19:29 <Ralph> ... there are also several from whom we've not heard back
16:19:43 <Ralph> Guus: after a reasonable amount of time we can close the issue if we haven't heard back
16:20:20 <Ralph> Alistair: as far as I know, only one issue has ongoing discussion
16:20:30 <Ralph> Antoine: issue 160
16:20:57 <Ralph> Alistair: it appears that Doug would be satisfied with changes to the Primer; he's looking for more guidance, not a change in the spec
16:21:17 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/160 issue 160; Allowing collections in semantic relationships
16:21:28 <Ralph> -- issue 135
16:21:41 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/135 issue 135; rdfs:label
16:21:49 <Ralph> Guus: you're still waiting on my input
16:22:07 <Ralph> Alistair: yes, we'd like Guus and Jeremey's implementation input
16:22:15 <Ralph> zakim, is jeremey here?
16:22:15 <Zakim> Ralph, I do not see Jeremey anywhere
16:23:02 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Guus and Jeremy to give concrete implementation examples of the use of rdfs:label w/ SKOS [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-swd-minutes.html#action10]
16:23:10 <Ralph> -- issue 153
16:23:28 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/153 issue 153; SKOS namespace change question
16:23:38 <Ralph> Guus: last discussion we were moving in the direction of keeping the old namespace
16:23:50 <Ralph> Alistair: yes, I believe Sean was going to draft a proposed resolution to keep the old namespace
16:24:27 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Sean to propose a resolution to ISSUE-135 [recorded in  http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action06]
16:25:00 <Ralph> -- issue 175
16:25:09 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/157 issue 157; SKOS and OWL 2 analysis
16:25:26 <Ralph> Alistair: I believe Sean was going to identify those parts of SKOS that are outside of OWL DL
16:25:45 <Ralph> s/175/157
16:26:06 <Ralph> ... I think Sean may be expecting Guus to respond as well
16:27:53 <Ralph> -- issue 135
16:28:14 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.html ISSUE-135 draft response [Sean 2008-11-25]
16:28:24 <Ralph> [DONE] ACTION: Sean to propose a resolution to ISSUE-135 [recorded in  http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action06]
16:28:55 <Ralph> Guus: Sean's mail reflects the discussion we had last week
16:29:26 <Ralph> ... I agree with it; change the label properties to be subproperties of owl:AnnotationProperty
16:29:35 <Ralph> Antoine: draft response is OK with me
16:29:55 <Ralph> Alistair: I'm not using OWL so I don't have a strong perspective on this
16:30:09 <Ralph> Guus: as an OWL Full user, I don't have any problems anyway
16:30:22 <Ralph> ... I'm fine with the change if it helps OWL DL folk
16:30:27 <Ralph> ... there is a logic behind it
16:30:48 <Ralph> PROPOSED: draft response to issue 135 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.html accepted
16:31:11 <Ralph> RESOLVED: draft response to issue 135 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.html accepted
16:31:20 <Ralph> ACTION: Alistair send issue 135 response from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.html
16:32:07 <Ralph> -- issue 186
16:32:09 <Ralph> [DONE] ACTION: Guus to propose answer for issue 186 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action02]
16:32:18 <Ralph> Guus: I completed that action
16:32:28 <Ralph> ACTION: Guus send response for issue 186
16:32:56 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0079.html ISSUE 186 - draft response [Guus 2008-11-18]
16:33:26 <aliman> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20081001/
16:33:42 <Ralph> ACTION: Sean to add rdf:type and rdf:Property assertions to the skos schema [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action07]
16:34:03 <Ralph> -- continues
16:35:38 <GuusS> GuusS has joined #swd
16:36:42 <Ralph> -- issue 175
16:36:53 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/175 SKOS namespace change question II
16:37:17 <Ralph> Ralph: nothing new in 175, right?  Duplicate of 153
16:37:50 <Ralph> Alistair: yes, it was primarily Jeremey noting that had he been in the WG at the time he would have voted to keep the old namespace
16:38:20 <Ralph> -- issue 157
16:38:29 <Ralph> ACTION: Guus discuss response to issue 157 with Sean
16:40:16 <Ralph> Alistair: there was further discussion about making mappingRelation a subproperty of semanticRelation
16:40:42 <Ralph> ACTION: Alistair add an isuse for Bernard's comment on mappingRelation and draft a response
16:40:50 <Ralph> s/isuse/issue/
16:41:30 <Ralph> Topic: issue 36
16:41:45 <Antoine> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0015.html
16:41:50 <Ralph> Antoine: I had a comment about part of resolution for issue 36 missing from the spec
16:42:06 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/36 issue 36; ConceptSchemeContainment
16:42:17 <Ralph> Antoine: Doug asked for pointer to the final resolution of this issue
16:42:24 <Ralph> ... and I couldn't cite it for him
16:42:47 <Ralph> Alistair: we initially suggested the use of RDF named graphs and that we'd cite this in the references
16:43:05 <Ralph> ... later, Sean thought this was out-of-scope for SKOS Reference
16:43:20 <Ralph> ... and we removed a number of informational appendices, this among them
16:43:30 <Ralph> ... this appendix was only a place-holder anyway
16:43:38 <Ralph> ... I'd be happy for content to be added to the Primer
16:44:16 <Ralph> Antoine: there's a sentence in the Primer already mentioning possible use of RDF named graphs
16:44:26 <Ralph> Guus: we could add an example
16:44:40 <Ralph> Ralph: I'm reluctant to add examples when named graphs haven't been standardized
16:44:53 <Ralph> Alistair: could show SPARQL usage
16:45:03 <Ralph> Guus: yes, a procedural method to handle this
16:45:23 <Ralph> Antoine: I can think about some examples, perhaps not in the place where the current note appears
16:45:30 <Ralph> Guus: 1 or 2 SPARQL examples would be sufficient
16:45:43 <Ralph> ACTION: Antoine propose 1 or 2 SPARQL examples showing named graph usage
16:46:33 <GuusSchreiber> GuusSchreiber has joined #swd
16:47:16 <Ralph> Topic: RDFa markup in SKOS Reference
16:47:25 <Ralph> ACTION: Ralph to report on use of RDFa metadata in Recommendations. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action02]
16:47:48 <Ralph> -- continues
16:48:17 <Ralph> Ralph: We can certainly do SKOS CR with RDFa markup
16:49:19 <Ralph> Guus: next week can we be prepared to close issues in tracker and have draft responses for the remaining 5 issues
16:49:31 <Ralph> ... should we meet next week?
16:49:42 <Ralph> Alistair: I'd like to keep our momentum up
16:49:55 <Ralph> Topic: Features at Risk
16:50:03 <Ralph> Guus: we've discussed the namespace question
16:50:29 <Ralph> [[
16:50:30 <Ralph> At Risk of Change: The relationships between the properties skos:exactMatch, skos:broadMatch and skos:narrowMatch may be changed in future versions of this specification. In particular, property chain axioms may be introduced.
16:50:32 <Ralph> ]]
16:50:45 <Ralph> -- http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20081001/#L5675
16:51:16 <Ralph> Alistair: I don't recall any comments addressing this
16:51:23 <Ralph> Guus: so we should leave it as is
16:51:27 <Ralph> Alistair: agree
16:52:19 <Ralph> Guus: topConceptOf
16:52:29 <Antoine> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Oct/0151.html
16:52:29 <Ralph> Alistair: I don't think Kjetl objects
16:52:49 <Ralph> Antoine: issue 176 draft response
16:53:20 <Ralph> Alistair: there was confusion here; Jeremey did comment but only on whether we should hesitate to express something not in OWL1
16:54:01 <Ralph> ... Sean just clarified that we were hesitating not because of OWL1 v. OWL2 concerns but because we couldn't reach a definitive decision about the feature at all
16:54:48 <Ralph> s/Kjetl/Kjetil
16:55:13 <Zakim> -Daniel
16:55:22 <Antoine> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/163
16:55:28 <Ralph> -- issue 163
16:55:37 <Ralph> Antoine: minor editorial issue 163
16:55:39 <Antoine> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/164
16:56:13 <Ralph> ... issue 164 implied some extensive modifications to the Primer but Doug approved the changes we did make
16:56:22 <Ralph> ... so nothing particularly substantial
16:56:43 <Ralph> ... I drafted proposed responses
16:56:46 <Antoine> proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0074.html
16:57:57 <Ralph> PROPOSE: accept resolution to issues 163 and 164 per Antoine's email of 18 Nov; http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Oct/0223.html
16:58:19 <Ralph> s/0223/0074
16:58:47 <Ralph> RESOLVED: accept resolution to issues 163 and 164 per Antoine's email of 18 Nov; http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Oct/0074.html
16:58:52 <Antoine> s/2008Oct/2008Nov
16:58:55 <Ralph> RESOLVED: Next telecon 2 Dec
16:59:06 <Zakim> -edsu
16:59:08 <Zakim> -JonP
16:59:10 <Zakim> -berrueta
16:59:10 <Zakim> -Aliman
16:59:13 <Ralph> RESOLVED: accept resolution to issues 163 and 164 per Antoine's email of 18 Nov; http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0074.html
16:59:14 <Zakim> -Margherita_Sini
16:59:21 <Ralph> [adjourned]
16:59:24 <edsu> edsu has left #swd
16:59:26 <Zakim> -Antoine_Isaac
16:59:28 <Zakim> -Ralph
16:59:40 <Zakim> -TomB
16:59:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html Ralph
17:01:27 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20]
17:01:32 <Ralph> zakim, drop guus
17:01:32 <Zakim> guus is being disconnected
17:01:34 <Zakim> SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
17:01:35 <Zakim> Attendees were TomB, Ralph, berrueta, edsu, Antoine_Isaac, Daniel, guus, Margherita_Sini, Aliman, JonP
17:01:41 <Ralph> (gently, please :)
17:01:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html Ralph
17:01:58 <Ralph> zakim, bye
17:01:58 <Zakim> Zakim has left #swd
17:02:58 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
17:02:58 <RRSAgent> I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-actions.rdf :
17:02:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Diego write a proposal to republish Recipes with the httpRange-14 reference corrected and a link to an errata document [1]
17:02:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-11-33
17:02:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph post his comments on the editor's draft of the metadata note [2]
17:02:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-12-50
17:02:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alistair send issue 135 response from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.html [3]
17:02:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-31-20
17:02:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus send response for issue 186 [4]
17:02:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-32-28
17:02:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Sean to add rdf:type and rdf:Property assertions to the skos schema [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action07] [5]
17:02:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-33-42
17:02:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus discuss response to issue 157 with Sean [6]
17:02:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-38-29
17:02:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alistair add an isuse for Bernard's comment on mappingRelation and draft a response [7]
17:02:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-40-42
17:02:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Antoine propose 1 or 2 SPARQL examples showing named graph usage [8]
17:02:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-45-43
17:02:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph to report on use of RDFa metadata in Recommendations. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action02] [9]
17:02:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-47-25