IRC log of swd on 2008-11-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:58:10 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #swd
15:58:10 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc
15:58:21 [TomB]: rrsagent, bookmark
15:58:21 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T15-58-21
15:58:27 [TomB]: zakim, this will be swd
15:58:27 [Zakim]: ok, TomB, I see SW_SWD()11:00AM already started
15:58:33 [TomB]: Meeting: SWD WG
15:58:37 [TomB]: Chair: Guus
15:58:42 [Ralph]: zakim, who's on the phone?
15:58:42 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ??P8
15:59:23 [Ralph]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0103.html
15:59:26 [TomB]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0103.html
15:59:33 [TomB]: zakim, ??P8 is TomB
15:59:33 [Zakim]: +TomB; got it
15:59:42 [TomB]: :-)
16:00:05 [Zakim]: +Ralph
16:00:46 [TomB]: Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html
16:00:56 [Guus]: Guus has joined #swd
16:01:16 [marghe]: marghe has joined #swd
16:01:30 [Zakim]: +abel
16:01:34 [berrueta]: zakim, abel is me
16:01:34 [Zakim]: +berrueta; got it
16:01:36 [Zakim]: +[LC]
16:01:45 [edsu]: Zakim, LC is edsu
16:01:47 [Zakim]: +edsu; got it
16:01:50 [TomB]: Regrets: Sean
16:02:11 [TomB]: rrsagent, please make record public
16:02:31 [Antoine]: Antoine has joined #swd
16:03:05 [JonP]: JonP has joined #swd
16:03:30 [Zakim]: +??P37
16:03:33 [Zakim]: +Antoine
16:03:37 [Zakim]: +Antoine_Isaac
16:03:51 [dlrubin]: dlrubin has joined #swd
16:04:01 [TomB]: zakim, ??p37 is Daniel
16:04:01 [Zakim]: +Daniel; got it
16:04:03 [Antoine]: zakim, Antoine is guus
16:04:03 [Zakim]: +guus; got it
16:04:38 [aliman]: aliman has joined #swd
16:05:06 [Zakim]: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Ralph
16:05:11 [Ralph]: Scribe: Ralph
16:05:20 [Zakim]: +Margherita_Sini
16:05:30 [Zakim]: +??P52
16:05:49 [Ralph]: zakim, ??p52 is Aliman
16:05:49 [Zakim]: +Aliman; got it
16:05:50 [Guus]: zakim, ??p52 is Alistair
16:05:51 [Zakim]: I already had ??P52 as Aliman, Guus
16:06:21 [Ralph]: Regrets+ Sean, Ben
16:06:33 [Zakim]: +Jon_Phipps
16:06:54 [JonP]: zakim, Jon_Phipps is me
16:06:54 [Zakim]: +JonP; got it
16:06:56 [Ralph]: Topic: Admin
16:07:14 [Ralph]: RESOLVED to accept minutes of the last telecon: http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html
16:07:30 [Ralph]: Topic: RDFa
16:07:49 [Ralph]: [CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben review RDFa Use Cases and propose transition to Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-minutes.html#action02]
16:08:06 [Ralph]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0095.html meeting record: 2008-11-20 RDFa telecon
16:08:14 [Ralph]: Topic: Recipes
16:08:24 [Ralph]: Diego: Tom sent mail about a broken reference in the document
16:08:45 [Ralph]: ... should we publish an updated Note?
16:09:16 [Ralph]: Ralph: did we include a link to an errata document?
16:09:23 [TomB]: q+ to ask if it is clear what we should cite
16:09:42 [Ralph]: Diego: the URI is still served but the document we want has moved
16:10:01 [Zakim]: TomB, you wanted to ask if it is clear what we should cite
16:10:31 [Ralph]: Tom: it's not clear what the intention of the Tag document is
16:10:49 [Ralph]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0078.html [Recipes] Reference to httpRange-14 [Tom 2008-11-18]
16:11:33 [Ralph]: ACTION: Diego write a proposal to republish Recipes with the httpRange-14 reference corrected and a link to an errata document
16:12:22 [Ralph]: Topic: RDFa Metadata Note
16:12:50 [Ralph]: ACTION: Ralph post his comments on the editor's draft of the metadata note
16:13:08 [Ralph]: Diego: I exchanged email with Ivan Herman
16:13:42 [Ralph]: ... apart from a couple of technical notes about the content, he said it would be important to let Ian Jacobs and Dominique Hazael-Massieux know of this work
16:14:05 [edsu]: +1 for having them review
16:15:04 [Ralph]: Ralph: I'd like the WG to produce one more editor's draft before we ask them for their review time
16:15:21 [Ralph]: ... not that the document is seriously flawed but I don't think we'll get them to review it many times
16:15:50 [Ralph]: Topic: Other Business
16:16:02 [Ralph]: Guus: good to see the translations of RDFa Primer and Recipes
16:16:30 [Ralph]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0098.html French translations [Ivan 2008-11-23]
16:17:07 [Ralph]: [CONTINUES] ACTION: Guus to look at OWL documents for review [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action10]
16:17:28 [Ralph]: Guus: SWD review of CURIE draft - done? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Oct/0214.html
16:17:37 [Ralph]: Ralph: I think that's done and CURIE has moved on
16:17:53 [Ralph]: Topic: SKOS
16:18:25 [Ralph]: Alistair: issues 135, 153, 175, 157, 186
16:18:38 [Ralph]: ... these 5 are the only issues for which we have not sent a response
16:18:59 [Ralph]: Guus: we still have 34 open issues
16:19:20 [Ralph]: Alistair: we have responses back from several commentors that I haven't yet entered into tracker
16:19:29 [Ralph]: ... there are also several from whom we've not heard back
16:19:43 [Ralph]: Guus: after a reasonable amount of time we can close the issue if we haven't heard back
16:20:20 [Ralph]: Alistair: as far as I know, only one issue has ongoing discussion
16:20:30 [Ralph]: Antoine: issue 160
16:20:57 [Ralph]: Alistair: it appears that Doug would be satisfied with changes to the Primer; he's looking for more guidance, not a change in the spec
16:21:17 [Ralph]: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/160 issue 160; Allowing collections in semantic relationships
16:21:28 [Ralph]: -- issue 135
16:21:41 [Ralph]: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/135 issue 135; rdfs:label
16:21:49 [Ralph]: Guus: you're still waiting on my input
16:22:07 [Ralph]: Alistair: yes, we'd like Guus and Jeremey's implementation input
16:22:15 [Ralph]: zakim, is jeremey here?
16:22:15 [Zakim]: Ralph, I do not see Jeremey anywhere
16:23:02 [Ralph]: [CONTINUES] ACTION: Guus and Jeremy to give concrete implementation examples of the use of rdfs:label w/ SKOS [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-swd-minutes.html#action10]
16:23:10 [Ralph]: -- issue 153
16:23:28 [Ralph]: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/153 issue 153; SKOS namespace change question
16:23:38 [Ralph]: Guus: last discussion we were moving in the direction of keeping the old namespace
16:23:50 [Ralph]: Alistair: yes, I believe Sean was going to draft a proposed resolution to keep the old namespace
16:24:27 [Ralph]: [CONTINUES] ACTION: Sean to propose a resolution to ISSUE-135 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action06]
16:25:00 [Ralph]: -- issue 175
16:25:09 [Ralph]: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/157 issue 157; SKOS and OWL 2 analysis
16:25:26 [Ralph]: Alistair: I believe Sean was going to identify those parts of SKOS that are outside of OWL DL
16:25:45 [Ralph]: s/175/157
16:26:06 [Ralph]: ... I think Sean may be expecting Guus to respond as well
16:27:53 [Ralph]: -- issue 135
16:28:14 [Ralph]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.html ISSUE-135 draft response [Sean 2008-11-25]
16:28:24 [Ralph]: [DONE] ACTION: Sean to propose a resolution to ISSUE-135 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action06]
16:28:55 [Ralph]: Guus: Sean's mail reflects the discussion we had last week
16:29:26 [Ralph]: ... I agree with it; change the label properties to be subproperties of owl:AnnotationProperty
16:29:35 [Ralph]: Antoine: draft response is OK with me
16:29:55 [Ralph]: Alistair: I'm not using OWL so I don't have a strong perspective on this
16:30:09 [Ralph]: Guus: as an OWL Full user, I don't have any problems anyway
16:30:22 [Ralph]: ... I'm fine with the change if it helps OWL DL folk
16:30:27 [Ralph]: ... there is a logic behind it
16:30:48 [Ralph]: PROPOSED: draft response to issue 135 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.html accepted
16:31:11 [Ralph]: RESOLVED: draft response to issue 135 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.html accepted
16:31:20 [Ralph]: ACTION: Alistair send issue 135 response from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.html
16:32:07 [Ralph]: -- issue 186
16:32:09 [Ralph]: [DONE] ACTION: Guus to propose answer for issue 186 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action02]
16:32:18 [Ralph]: Guus: I completed that action
16:32:28 [Ralph]: ACTION: Guus send response for issue 186
16:32:56 [Ralph]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0079.html ISSUE 186 - draft response [Guus 2008-11-18]
16:33:26 [aliman]: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20081001/
16:33:42 [Ralph]: ACTION: Sean to add rdf:type and rdf:Property assertions to the skos schema [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action07]
16:34:03 [Ralph]: -- continues
16:35:38 [GuusS]: GuusS has joined #swd
16:36:42 [Ralph]: -- issue 175
16:36:53 [Ralph]: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/175 SKOS namespace change question II
16:37:17 [Ralph]: Ralph: nothing new in 175, right? Duplicate of 153
16:37:50 [Ralph]: Alistair: yes, it was primarily Jeremey noting that had he been in the WG at the time he would have voted to keep the old namespace
16:38:20 [Ralph]: -- issue 157
16:38:29 [Ralph]: ACTION: Guus discuss response to issue 157 with Sean
16:40:16 [Ralph]: Alistair: there was further discussion about making mappingRelation a subproperty of semanticRelation
16:40:42 [Ralph]: ACTION: Alistair add an isuse for Bernard's comment on mappingRelation and draft a response
16:40:50 [Ralph]: s/isuse/issue/
16:41:30 [Ralph]: Topic: issue 36
16:41:45 [Antoine]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0015.html
16:41:50 [Ralph]: Antoine: I had a comment about part of resolution for issue 36 missing from the spec
16:42:06 [Ralph]: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/36 issue 36; ConceptSchemeContainment
16:42:17 [Ralph]: Antoine: Doug asked for pointer to the final resolution of this issue
16:42:24 [Ralph]: ... and I couldn't cite it for him
16:42:47 [Ralph]: Alistair: we initially suggested the use of RDF named graphs and that we'd cite this in the references
16:43:05 [Ralph]: ... later, Sean thought this was out-of-scope for SKOS Reference
16:43:20 [Ralph]: ... and we removed a number of informational appendices, this among them
16:43:30 [Ralph]: ... this appendix was only a place-holder anyway
16:43:38 [Ralph]: ... I'd be happy for content to be added to the Primer
16:44:16 [Ralph]: Antoine: there's a sentence in the Primer already mentioning possible use of RDF named graphs
16:44:26 [Ralph]: Guus: we could add an example
16:44:40 [Ralph]: Ralph: I'm reluctant to add examples when named graphs haven't been standardized
16:44:53 [Ralph]: Alistair: could show SPARQL usage
16:45:03 [Ralph]: Guus: yes, a procedural method to handle this
16:45:23 [Ralph]: Antoine: I can think about some examples, perhaps not in the place where the current note appears
16:45:30 [Ralph]: Guus: 1 or 2 SPARQL examples would be sufficient
16:45:43 [Ralph]: ACTION: Antoine propose 1 or 2 SPARQL examples showing named graph usage
16:46:33 [GuusSchreiber]: GuusSchreiber has joined #swd
16:47:16 [Ralph]: Topic: RDFa markup in SKOS Reference
16:47:25 [Ralph]: ACTION: Ralph to report on use of RDFa metadata in Recommendations. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action02]
16:47:48 [Ralph]: -- continues
16:48:17 [Ralph]: Ralph: We can certainly do SKOS CR with RDFa markup
16:49:19 [Ralph]: Guus: next week can we be prepared to close issues in tracker and have draft responses for the remaining 5 issues
16:49:31 [Ralph]: ... should we meet next week?
16:49:42 [Ralph]: Alistair: I'd like to keep our momentum up
16:49:55 [Ralph]: Topic: Features at Risk
16:50:03 [Ralph]: Guus: we've discussed the namespace question
16:50:29 [Ralph]: [[
16:50:30 [Ralph]: At Risk of Change: The relationships between the properties skos:exactMatch, skos:broadMatch and skos:narrowMatch may be changed in future versions of this specification. In particular, property chain axioms may be introduced.
16:50:32 [Ralph]: ]]
16:50:45 [Ralph]: -- http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20081001/#L5675
16:51:16 [Ralph]: Alistair: I don't recall any comments addressing this
16:51:23 [Ralph]: Guus: so we should leave it as is
16:51:27 [Ralph]: Alistair: agree
16:52:19 [Ralph]: Guus: topConceptOf
16:52:29 [Antoine]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Oct/0151.html
16:52:29 [Ralph]: Alistair: I don't think Kjetl objects
16:52:49 [Ralph]: Antoine: issue 176 draft response
16:53:20 [Ralph]: Alistair: there was confusion here; Jeremey did comment but only on whether we should hesitate to express something not in OWL1
16:54:01 [Ralph]: ... Sean just clarified that we were hesitating not because of OWL1 v. OWL2 concerns but because we couldn't reach a definitive decision about the feature at all
16:54:48 [Ralph]: s/Kjetl/Kjetil
16:55:13 [Zakim]: -Daniel
16:55:22 [Antoine]: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/163
16:55:28 [Ralph]: -- issue 163
16:55:37 [Ralph]: Antoine: minor editorial issue 163
16:55:39 [Antoine]: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/164
16:56:13 [Ralph]: ... issue 164 implied some extensive modifications to the Primer but Doug approved the changes we did make
16:56:22 [Ralph]: ... so nothing particularly substantial
16:56:43 [Ralph]: ... I drafted proposed responses
16:56:46 [Antoine]: proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0074.html
16:57:57 [Ralph]: PROPOSE: accept resolution to issues 163 and 164 per Antoine's email of 18 Nov; http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Oct/0223.html
16:58:19 [Ralph]: s/0223/0074
16:58:47 [Ralph]: RESOLVED: accept resolution to issues 163 and 164 per Antoine's email of 18 Nov; http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Oct/0074.html
16:58:52 [Antoine]: s/2008Oct/2008Nov
16:58:55 [Ralph]: RESOLVED: Next telecon 2 Dec
16:59:06 [Zakim]: -edsu
16:59:08 [Zakim]: -JonP
16:59:10 [Zakim]: -berrueta
16:59:10 [Zakim]: -Aliman
16:59:13 [Ralph]: RESOLVED: accept resolution to issues 163 and 164 per Antoine's email of 18 Nov; http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0074.html
16:59:14 [Zakim]: -Margherita_Sini
16:59:21 [Ralph]: [adjourned]
16:59:24 [edsu]: edsu has left #swd
16:59:26 [Zakim]: -Antoine_Isaac
16:59:28 [Zakim]: -Ralph
16:59:40 [Zakim]: -TomB
16:59:54 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html Ralph
17:01:27 [Ralph]: [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20]
17:01:32 [Ralph]: zakim, drop guus
17:01:32 [Zakim]: guus is being disconnected
17:01:34 [Zakim]: SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
17:01:35 [Zakim]: Attendees were TomB, Ralph, berrueta, edsu, Antoine_Isaac, Daniel, guus, Margherita_Sini, Aliman, JonP
17:01:41 [Ralph]: (gently, please :)
17:01:54 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html Ralph
17:01:58 [Ralph]: zakim, bye
17:01:58 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #swd
17:02:58 [Ralph]: rrsagent, bye
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-actions.rdf :
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Diego write a proposal to republish Recipes with the httpRange-14 reference corrected and a link to an errata document [1]
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-11-33
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ralph post his comments on the editor's draft of the metadata note [2]
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-12-50
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Alistair send issue 135 response from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.html [3]
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-31-20
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Guus send response for issue 186 [4]
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-32-28
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Sean to add rdf:type and rdf:Property assertions to the skos schema [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action07] [5]
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-33-42
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Guus discuss response to issue 157 with Sean [6]
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-38-29
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Alistair add an isuse for Bernard's comment on mappingRelation and draft a response [7]
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-40-42
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Antoine propose 1 or 2 SPARQL examples showing named graph usage [8]
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-45-43
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ralph to report on use of RDFa metadata in Recommendations. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action02] [9]
17:02:58 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc#T16-47-25