IRC log of er on 2008-11-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:25:56 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/19-er-irc

13:26:03 [Zakim]

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13:26:12 [shadi]

trackbot, start meeting

13:26:14 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:26:16 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 3794

13:26:16 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

13:26:17 [trackbot]

Meeting: Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group Teleconference

13:26:17 [trackbot]

Date: 19 November 2008

13:27:45 [MikeS]

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13:27:52 [shadi]

meeting: ERT WG

13:28:00 [shadi]

chair: Mike

13:28:27 [shadi]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Nov/0026.html

13:28:42 [shadi]

agenda+ EARL 1.0 Schema

13:28:56 [shadi]

agenda+ Http in RDF

13:29:10 [shadi]

agenda+ Content in RDF

13:29:21 [JohannesK]

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13:30:17 [shadi]

scribe: Shadi

13:30:23 [Zakim]

WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM has now started

13:30:30 [Zakim]

+ +1.512.286.aaaa

13:30:32 [Zakim]

+Shadi

13:30:43 [MikeS]

zakim, +1.512 is MikeS

13:30:43 [Zakim]

+MikeS; got it

13:30:44 [carlosI]

carlosI has joined #er

13:31:30 [MikeS]

zakim, who is on the phone

13:31:30 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'who is on the phone', MikeS

13:31:43 [MikeS]

zakim, who is on the phone?

13:31:43 [Zakim]

On the phone I see MikeS, Shadi

13:32:10 [CarlosV]

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+??P9

13:32:24 [Zakim]

+Carlos_Iglesias

13:32:42 [JohannesK]

Zakim, ??P9 is JohannesK

13:32:42 [Zakim]

+JohannesK; got it

13:32:47 [Zakim]

+CarlosV

13:33:42 [shadi]

agenda?

13:34:24 [shadi]

zakim, take up agendum 1

13:34:24 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "EARL 1.0 Schema" taken up [from shadi]

13:34:25 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/WD-EARL10-Schema-20081106

13:34:43 [shadi]

MS: objective for today is to go through some of the open questions

13:35:03 [shadi]

...primarily the "specific questions", then the "editorial questions"

13:35:20 [shadi]

...may need to leave the others for future calls

13:35:31 [shadi]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Nov/0025.html

13:36:17 [shadi]

[Definition of Outcome]

13:36:41 [shadi]

CV: philosophical question, how we want design this

13:37:00 [shadi]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Nov/0023

13:38:49 [shadi]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Nov/att-0012/earl.rdf

13:39:03 [shadi]

<earl:Outcome rdf:ID="pass">

13:39:03 [shadi]

<rdfs:label xml:lang="en">Pass</rdfs:label>

13:39:03 [shadi]

<rdfs:comment xml:lang="en">Test passed</rdfs:comment>

13:39:03 [shadi]

<rdf:type rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>

13:39:03 [shadi]

</earl:Outcome>

13:41:20 [shadi]

SAZ: seems to be agreement that owl:Thing is not necessary

13:42:36 [shadi]

...want to have custom values

13:43:16 [shadi]

...option 1: individual outcome values should be subclasses of earl:Outcome

13:44:00 [shadi]

...option 2: is to do the approach explained in <earl:Outcome rdf:ID="pass">

13:44:00 [shadi]

<rdfs:label xml:lang="en">Pass</rdfs:label>

13:44:00 [shadi]

<rdfs:comment xml:lang="en">Test passed</rdfs:comment>

13:44:00 [shadi]

<rdf:type rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>

13:44:00 [shadi]

</earl:Outcome>

13:44:56 [shadi]

...option 2: is to do the approach explained in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Nov/0023.html

13:46:51 [shadi]

JK: preference to make the outcome values resources rather than classes

13:47:07 [shadi]

...and to make new values new resources

13:48:12 [shadi]

<rdf:Description rdf:about="http://www.w3.org/ns/earl#cannotTell">

13:48:12 [shadi]

<rdf:type rdf:resource="http://www.example.org/my#CannotTellOutcome"/>

13:48:12 [shadi]

</rdf:Description>

13:50:19 [shadi]

<rdf:Description rdf:about="http://www.example.org/my#CannotTellOutcome">

13:50:19 [shadi]

<rdf:type rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/ns/earl#cannotTell"/>

13:50:19 [shadi]

</rdf:Description>

13:52:28 [shadi]

CV: do we need to do this?

13:52:45 [shadi]

...can just subclass earl:Outcome

13:53:03 [shadi]

JK: what would my:probablyPass mean?

13:53:12 [shadi]

CV: would be earl:Outcome

13:55:09 [shadi]

SAZ: want to create a "probablyPass" value, which is actually a "cannotTell"

13:56:40 [shadi]

...think that the atomic values that we provide in EARL (pass, fail, ...) need to be classes

13:56:53 [shadi]

CV: seems cumbersome

13:59:13 [shadi]

MS: not convinced that need to be classes

14:00:18 [shadi]

JK: what was the use case? some tool creates a "my:probablyPass" but a second tool doesn't know the "my:" vocabulary

14:00:37 [shadi]

...should still be able to infer that it is an earl:cannotTell

14:02:14 [shadi]

SAZ: workaround by JK changes meaning of initial vocabulary

14:02:24 [shadi]

...think this is bad RDF ethics

14:04:19 [shadi]

action: shadi to ask SWIG if there other ways to do this rather than to create individual classes for each value

14:04:19 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-64 - Ask SWIG if there other ways to do this rather than to create individual classes for each value [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2008-11-26].

14:04:28 [JohannesK]

<rdfs:Class rdf:ID="OutcomePass">

14:04:29 [JohannesK]

<rdfs:subClassOf rdf:resource="&earl;Outcome"/>

14:04:31 [JohannesK]

</rdfs:Class>

14:06:51 [shadi]

[Adoption of DOAP]

14:07:10 [shadi]

MK: should we adopt this, and if so how?

14:07:29 [shadi]

CV: description of a project, vocabulary is quite simple

14:07:46 [shadi]

...offers versioning, home page, etc

14:08:02 [shadi]

...all the part of open source projects

14:08:38 [shadi]

MS: do we want to adopt this?

14:10:30 [shadi]

SAZ: do not think we need to add any terms for DOAP

14:10:48 [shadi]

...could adopt it like we adopt FOAF

14:11:21 [shadi]

MS: what benefit would we get from adopting DOAP? we have dc:version and foaf:homepage in a software already

14:12:28 [shadi]

JK: is there a problem with someone using DOAP terms?

14:13:16 [shadi]

SAZ: would be just repeating dc:version and doap:version for example, but no compatibility issues

14:13:56 [shadi]

action: cvelasco to suggest specific DOAP terms that would be useful for us to adopt (because they go beyond what we currently have)

14:13:57 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-65 - Suggest specific DOAP terms that would be useful for us to adopt (because they go beyond what we currently have) [on Carlos A. Velasco - due 2008-11-26].

14:14:20 [shadi]

[Conformance section]

14:14:51 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/WD-EARL10-Schema-20081106#conformance

14:18:22 [shadi]

SAZ: think there is a level describing the individual classes and entities, and the other is about processing

14:19:35 [shadi]

MS: is there presendence?

14:19:49 [shadi]

SAZ: i think SPARQL and maybe POWDER

14:20:32 [shadi]

action: msquilla to check about SPARQL and POWDER approach on processing rules

14:20:33 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-66 - Check about SPARQL and POWDER approach on processing rules [on Michael Squillace - due 2008-11-26].

14:21:50 [shadi]

SAZ: also CC/PP may have a similar approach

14:30:57 [shadi]

JK: there is a difference btween EARL generating tools and EARL processing tools

14:33:59 [Zakim]

-CarlosV

14:34:01 [CarlosV]

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14:35:25 [shadi]

action: msquilla and shadi to take another pass at the conformance section

14:35:25 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-67 - And shadi to take another pass at the conformance section [on Michael Squillace - due 2008-11-26].

14:36:16 [Zakim]

-JohannesK

14:36:20 [Zakim]

-Shadi

14:36:22 [Zakim]

-Carlos_Iglesias

14:36:27 [Zakim]

-MikeS

14:36:28 [Zakim]

WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM has ended

14:36:30 [Zakim]

Attendees were +1.512.286.aaaa, Shadi, MikeS, Carlos_Iglesias, JohannesK, CarlosV

14:37:10 [MikeS]

do you have time to debrief afte you finish the minutes?

14:38:10 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

14:38:14 [shadi]

rrsagent, minutes

14:38:14 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'minutes', shadi. Try /msg RRSAgent help

14:38:31 [shadi]

zakim, bye

14:38:31 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #er

14:38:34 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

14:38:39 [shadi]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:38:39 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/19-er-minutes.html shadi

14:38:43 [shadi]

rrsagent, bye

14:38:43 [RRSAgent]

I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/19-er-actions.rdf :

14:38:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: shadi to ask SWIG if there other ways to do this rather than to create individual classes for each value [1]

14:38:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/19-er-irc#T14-04-19

14:38:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: cvelasco to suggest specific DOAP terms that would be useful for us to adopt (because they go beyond what we currently have) [2]

14:38:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/19-er-irc#T14-13-56

14:38:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: msquilla to check about SPARQL and POWDER approach on processing rules [3]

14:38:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/19-er-irc#T14-20-32

14:38:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: msquilla and shadi to take another pass at the conformance section [4]

14:38:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/19-er-irc#T14-35-25