IRC log of mediaann on 2008-11-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:58:18 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-irc

12:58:26 [fsasaki]

meeting: Media Annotations WG

12:58:28 [fsasaki]

chair: Felix

12:58:35 [fsasaki]

scribe: joakim

12:58:38 [Zakim]

+Marc_Schroeder

12:58:43 [fsasaki]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0080.html

12:58:54 [Zakim]

+??P2

12:59:08 [Zakim]

+Marc_Schroeder.a

12:59:12 [Zakim]

+Felix

12:59:20 [VeroniqueM]

VeroniqueM has joined #mediaann

12:59:21 [tobiasb]

Zakim, ??P2 is me

12:59:21 [Zakim]

+tobiasb; got it

12:59:36 [Zakim]

-Marc_Schroeder

12:59:40 [Zakim]

+??P4

13:00:15 [Zakim]

+[VrijeUni]

13:00:38 [Zakim]

+wbailer

13:00:41 [VeroniqueM]

zakim, [VrijeUni] is me

13:00:41 [Zakim]

+VeroniqueM; got it

13:00:59 [Daniel]

I just participate in IRC due to call trouble in minneapolis. sorry

13:01:14 [Zakim]

+ +95177aabb

13:01:21 [pchampin]

this is me

13:01:31 [Zakim]

+Marc_Schroeder.aa

13:02:01 [pchampin]

might be me

13:02:05 [Zakim]

-pchampin

13:02:08 [pchampin]

is it better ?

13:02:50 [fsasaki]

present: ruben, tobiasb, Marc_Schroeder.a, Felix, wonsuk, wbailer, VeroniqueM, jean-pierre, hui, pchampin

13:03:06 [fsasaki]

regrets: Raphael, Davy, Frank

13:04:07 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose VeroniqueM

13:04:28 [fsasaki]

scribe: VeroniqueM

13:04:56 [fsasaki]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0080.html

13:05:02 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html

13:05:04 [erik]

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13:05:45 [VeroniqueM]

previous minutes are approved

13:05:59 [fsasaki]

topic: Selection of scribe for next meeting

13:06:00 [Zakim]

+Marc_Schroeder

13:07:17 [VeroniqueM]

next scribe: Joachim

13:07:32 [fsasaki]

topic: Action items

13:07:37 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/open

13:08:01 [Daniel]

s/Joachim/Joakim

13:08:03 [fsasaki]

ACTION-22 - pending, waiting for feedback

13:08:13 [vrodrgue]

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13:08:14 [VeroniqueM]

http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/22

13:08:23 [fsasaki]

close ACTION-32

13:08:23 [trackbot]

ACTION-32 Make a liaison with MPEG using information from the XP homepage closed

13:08:42 [fsasaki]

ACTION-33 - pending, waiting for feedback

13:08:54 [fsasaki]

close ACTION-34

13:08:55 [trackbot]

ACTION-34 Contact Open IPTV forum closed

13:09:17 [Daniel]

who's responsible for ACTION-32 MPEG liaison ?

13:09:34 [fsasaki]

close ACTION-36

13:09:34 [trackbot]

ACTION-36 Make a liaison with OMA closed

13:10:02 [fsasaki]

Daniel, that was you, no?

13:10:30 [Daniel]

yes, me

13:10:42 [fsasaki]

ok. Should we keep the action item open?

13:11:03 [Daniel]

I am in Minneapoils and at room, but internet line is not good for making a call

13:11:17 [fsasaki]

ok. I will keep ACTION-32 open for now.

13:11:27 [vrodrgue]

Ruben and me were causing noise because of acoustic coupling. We will share microphone and bother no more)

13:11:29 [Daniel]

No, who should work for ACTION32 ?

13:11:37 [VeroniqueM]

s/Minneapoils/Minneapolis

13:12:17 [fsasaki]

Daniel, maybe we can discuss this then you are back on the phone, and keep the action-32 just open for now. OK?

13:12:53 [Daniel]

no problem

13:13:29 [fsasaki]

ACTION-37 - Write a mail about the general structure of the use cases / req document - pending

13:13:51 [fsasaki]

topic: Upcoming meetings / time schedule

13:14:05 [fsasaki]

two more meetings before f2f. Goal before f2f:

13:14:06 [fsasaki]

- finish XMP review, please look into http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP

13:14:08 [fsasaki]

- make progress with use case / requirements document

13:14:09 [fsasaki]

- have a list of core questions about our scope, see "URI as value" and "proposal for ontology and API" thread

13:14:11 [fsasaki]

Goals at f2f:

13:14:12 [fsasaki]

a) 1 day for use case / requirements document

13:14:14 [fsasaki]

b) 1/2 day for finding answers to the "scope" related questions

13:14:15 [fsasaki]

c) 1/2 day to distribute and start work: people looking into mapping specific, existing formats to XMP, plus other work items related to b)

13:15:02 [Zakim]

-Marc_Schroeder

13:16:12 [VeroniqueM]

there are several questions to be answered before we can move on: what level of abstraction do we want, structured model or flat one, uri question etc.

13:16:44 [VeroniqueM]

at the f2f we could try to define the scope of the ontology

13:16:54 [VeroniqueM]

at the f2f we could try to define the scope of the ontologyand define properties to map

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13:17:32 [VeroniqueM]

topics to be moved forward in the next calls and f2f meeting

13:18:14 [fsasaki]

veronique: for the use case / req document we need input from the people who contributed

13:18:27 [fsasaki]

.. bilateral discussions with the editors could be useful

13:19:26 [VeroniqueM]

Werner: we need a better dfinition of what is expected from the use cases in terms of requirements

13:20:00 [VeroniqueM]

Felix: two approaches are possible

13:20:09 [VeroniqueM]

Felix: two approaches are possible.. define use cases very clearly

13:20:22 [VeroniqueM]

Felix: two approaches are possible.. define use cases very clearly.. and define requirements and level of complexity

13:20:38 [VeroniqueM]

Felix: two approaches are possible.. define use cases very clearly.. and define requirements and level of complexity.. other choice is starting from existing ontologies

13:20:52 [VeroniqueM]

Felix: two approaches are possible.. define use cases very clearly.. and define requirements and level of complexity.. other choice is starting from existing ontologies.. and define what complexity is needed in them

13:22:23 [VeroniqueM]

Felix: we need to decide if we want the sequential approach: use case -> requirements -> api

13:22:39 [VeroniqueM]

.. or work in parallel

13:23:05 [VeroniqueM]

Werner: the idea is not to create the ontology to cover all the needs from the use cases

13:23:31 [VeroniqueM]

.. but check out the requirements and models that are relevant for more

13:23:47 [VeroniqueM]

.. these will have more impact

13:24:19 [VeroniqueM]

Felix: f2f we can discuss the two drafts: api and requirement document

13:25:30 [fsasaki]

veronique: idea to send use case on the list and the contributor could say "this was the intended meaning"

13:25:31 [vrodrgue]

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13:26:01 [fsasaki]

veronquie: video use case is very vaque

13:26:47 [Daniel]

vague ?

13:26:56 [fsasaki]

s/vaque/vague/

13:27:02 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/VideoUC

13:27:50 [fsasaki]

veronique: all use cases have some sentences which are unclear

13:28:41 [VeroniqueM]

Felix: maybe an idea could be for the contributors of each use case to clarify them, or another possibility could be to simplify these descriptions

13:28:48 [fsasaki]

veronique: having a template might help

13:29:44 [VeroniqueM]

ACTION 37: Felix to make a proposal for a template to describe the use cases

13:29:44 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - 37

13:29:59 [Daniel]

good idea for having a template for the use cases

13:30:07 [VeroniqueM]

ACTION 37 Felix to make a proposal for a template to describe the use cases

13:30:07 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - 37

13:30:35 [fsasaki]

topic: XMP review

13:30:44 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP

13:31:16 [VeroniqueM]

?? contributes to the Dublin Core section

13:31:33 [fsasaki]

s/??/Thierry/

13:31:38 [VeroniqueM]

s/contributes/contributed/

13:32:44 [VeroniqueM]

do people have specific ideas about a simple representation vs multilayer, or should this topic be discussed later, rather?

13:32:55 [fsasaki]

topic: Draft for Use cases and requirements document

13:33:10 [fsasaki]

veronique: I am rewriting the introduction, merging it with different views

13:33:25 [fsasaki]

.. use cases related to media, context etc.

13:33:37 [VictorR]

it is fine

13:33:43 [wbailer]

+1

13:33:44 [fsasaki]

.. cultural heritage is another one

13:34:07 [fsasaki]

+1

13:35:02 [fsasaki]

topic: Multilevel description review

13:35:08 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/MultilevelDescriptionReview

13:36:02 [rtous]

sorry

13:36:08 [VeroniqueM]

Felix: could Ruben make a short introduction of his document/

13:36:11 [rtous]

I've a problem with the micro

13:36:16 [fsasaki]

np, waiting

13:36:34 [rtous]

I can do it by IRC

13:36:54 [fsasaki]

yes, go ahead

13:37:06 [rtous]

We have identified several aspects related to multi-level description

13:37:14 [rtous]

I've added a table to the end of the page

13:37:37 [rtous]

1) different abstractions (work-manifestation-instance-item)

13:37:56 [rtous]

2) intellectual property aspects (MVCO)

13:38:00 [rtous]

3) collections

13:38:05 [rtous]

4) whole/part

13:38:14 [rtous]

5) creation workflow (derived from)

13:38:17 [rtous]

My conclusion:

13:38:36 [rtous]

Resources are related, we should at least keep some links between them

13:38:49 [rtous]

Like "dc:source" "dc:relation", etc

13:39:41 [tobiasb]

I also would suggest to have a look at the FRBR relations

13:39:44 [rtous]

however the possibility of a more complex structure should be considered

13:40:33 [rtous]

yes, this is all

13:40:51 [rtous]

thanks

13:40:57 [VeroniqueM]

maybe as was suggested by Silvia on the mailing list, these relations (FRBR) are related to collection management

13:41:16 [fsasaki]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0076.html

13:41:26 [fsasaki]

(mail from Silvia)

13:41:52 [VictorR]

they are not necessarility to collection management

13:41:53 [VeroniqueM]

and we should not include a complex model in our ontology, but be able to "plug into" complex models

13:42:25 [VeroniqueM]

no, agreed, but they are very "context dependent", somehow

13:43:07 [VictorR]

This idea of plugging more complex models sounds reasonable

13:43:18 [VeroniqueM]

that could be part of the requirements for tasks-related use cases

13:44:41 [wbailer]

the plug-in could define specialisations of concepts in the core model, eg a more specific type of relation between resources

13:45:35 [VeroniqueM]

ACTION: VeroniqueM to send around an exemple of what she means with "plugging into complex model"

13:45:35 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - VeroniqueM

13:46:35 [VeroniqueM]

Felix: are there other thoughts on Ruben's document?

13:46:37 [VictorR]

I do naturally agree with Ruben´s document.

13:46:59 [wbailer]

it provides a very good overview

13:47:10 [tobiasb]

+1

13:47:28 [fsasaki]

+1

13:47:30 [Daniel]

+1

13:47:47 [fsasaki]

topic: Proposal for ontology and api structure

13:47:53 [fsasaki]

http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-api-1.0/mediaont-api-1.0.html

13:48:12 [VeroniqueM]

Felix: we had some discussions on the mailing list

13:48:33 [VeroniqueM]

.. related to a proposal from MPEG

13:48:51 [VeroniqueM]

.. also working on an API

13:49:27 [VeroniqueM]

.. discussion about standalone format/not

13:49:56 [VeroniqueM]

.. we can discuss this here too: what do people think?

13:50:26 [VictorR]

MPEG´s API (called MXM) is still in an early stage but has interesting points to look at

13:51:07 [VictorR]

[I participate also in its writting]

13:51:26 [VictorR]

Yes, it is OK, together with Christian Timmerer

13:52:01 [VeroniqueM]

ACTION to VictoR to look into the MPEG API

13:52:01 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - to

13:52:29 [VeroniqueM]

ACTION VictoR to look into the MPEG API

13:52:29 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - VictoR

13:52:39 [VeroniqueM]

ACTION VictorR to look into the MPEG API

13:52:39 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - VictorR

13:53:23 [VeroniqueM]

Felix: we could discuss the structure of the ontology

13:55:56 [VeroniqueM]

Tobias: depends on the use cases and requirements, what type of structure we want

13:56:28 [VeroniqueM]

.. list is ok if the use cases can be fulfilled with that

13:56:51 [VeroniqueM]

.. otherwise need of a more complex structure

13:57:20 [VeroniqueM]

ACTION Felix to draft a first agenda for the f2f meeting

13:57:22 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-38 - Draft a first agenda for the f2f meeting [on Felix Sasaki - due 2008-11-25].

13:57:52 [Zakim]

-wonsuk

13:58:03 [VeroniqueM]

Felix: we should include a slot for this topic

13:58:19 [fsasaki]

topic: transmission.cc

13:58:23 [fsasaki]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0030.html

13:58:25 [vrodrgue]

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13:58:46 [Zakim]

+ +46.8.75.7.aacc

13:58:57 [VeroniqueM]

Felix: we had feedback about this from a person from Yahoo!

13:59:18 [VeroniqueM]

.. but did not get his info yet

13:59:36 [VeroniqueM]

.. does anyone has opinions about this format?

13:59:50 [VeroniqueM]

.. format is transmission cc

14:00:16 [VeroniqueM]

Tobias: format supposed to be simpler than media rss

14:00:34 [VeroniqueM]

Tobias: but can't really see the difference

14:00:48 [js]

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14:01:11 [VeroniqueM]

Felix: google youtube API is an input for (their?) API

14:01:41 [fsasaki]

s/is an input for (their?) API/also uses mediaRSS, not sure if the use transmission.cc/

14:01:56 [tobiasb]

One difference is that TXFeed explicitely allows to reference external databases for metadata, videos and subtitle databases.

14:03:07 [VeroniqueM]

ACTION Tobias to put description about transmission cc in Wiki

14:03:08 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-39 - Put description about transmission cc in Wiki [on Tobias Bürger - due 2008-11-25].

14:03:30 [js]

Hi, Sorry for checking inlate I misstken the time

14:03:48 [Zakim]

-ruben

14:03:51 [vrodrgue]

Thanks you, all

14:03:56 [Zakim]

- +46.8.75.7.aacc

14:03:59 [tobiasb]

bye!

14:04:00 [rtous]

bye

14:04:02 [wonsuk]

bye

14:04:04 [Zakim]

-tobiasb

14:04:10 [Zakim]

-VeroniqueM

14:04:11 [Zakim]

-wbailer

14:04:13 [js]

logout

14:04:15 [hui]

bye

14:04:17 [Zakim]

-Felix

14:04:19 [Zakim]

-Marc_Schroeder.aa

14:04:25 [erik]

Felix ... For the 2nd F2F @ Ghent, Media Annotations has 9 (live) participants so far (Daniel, Tobias, Jean-Pierre, WonSuk, Joakim, Frank, Felix, Victor, Werner)

14:04:45 [erik]

... but only three have already booked their hotel (Daniel, Felix, Joakim) ... I just hope the other ones have booked elsewhere, or will book soon ... just letting you all know

14:04:57 [tobiasb]

I also booked a hotel already...

14:05:11 [Daniel]

thanks Erik for your info.

14:06:00 [erik]

Hope to be able to call in next time and give some more info

14:06:05 [erik]

bye

14:06:14 [pchampin]

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14:06:17 [Zakim]

+Felix

14:06:26 [wonsuk]

wonsuk has left #mediaann

14:06:38 [Daniel]

thanks Felix

14:06:42 [Zakim]

-Marc_Schroeder.a

14:06:43 [VictorR2]

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14:06:48 [VictorR2]

Hello,

14:06:50 [Zakim]

IA_MAWG()8:00AM has ended

14:06:51 [Zakim]

Attendees were +41.22.717.aaaa, Marc_Schroeder, Felix, tobiasb, wonsuk, ruben, jean-pierre, wbailer, VeroniqueM, +95177aabb, pchampin, +46.8.75.7.aacc

14:06:58 [VictorR2]

I have booked the hotel, too.

14:07:06 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki

14:07:33 [VictorR2]

Veronique, What about the Action you wanted to create and you failed to?

14:07:46 [VictorR2]

was it anything about my User name?

14:08:05 [fsasaki]

present+ jean-pierre

14:08:32 [fsasaki]

present+ daniel

14:08:51 [Daniel]

Daniel has left #mediaann

14:09:00 [VeroniqueM]

logout

14:09:42 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki

14:26:18 [fsasaki]

action: victor to look into the MPEG API

14:26:18 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - victor

14:26:38 [fsasaki]

action: vrodrgue to look into the MPEG API

14:26:38 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-41 - Look into the MPEG API [on Víctor Rodríguez - due 2008-11-25].

14:40:13 [fsasaki]

rrsagent, bye

14:40:13 [RRSAgent]

I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-actions.rdf :

14:40:13 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: 37 to Felix to make a proposal for a template to describe the use cases [1]

14:40:13 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-irc#T13-29-44

14:40:13 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: VeroniqueM to send around an exemple of what she means with "plugging into complex model" [2]

14:40:13 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-irc#T13-45-35

14:40:13 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: victor to look into the MPEG API [3]

14:40:13 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-irc#T14-26-18

14:40:13 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: vrodrgue to look into the MPEG API [4]

14:40:13 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-irc#T14-26-38

14:40:18 [fsasaki]

zakim, bye

14:40:18 [Zakim]

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