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12:58:26 <fsasaki> meeting: Media Annotations WG
12:58:28 <fsasaki> chair: Felix
12:58:35 <fsasaki> scribe: joakim
12:58:38 <Zakim> +Marc_Schroeder
12:58:43 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0080.html
12:58:54 <Zakim> +??P2
12:59:08 <Zakim> +Marc_Schroeder.a
12:59:12 <Zakim> +Felix
12:59:20 <VeroniqueM> VeroniqueM has joined #mediaann
12:59:21 <tobiasb> Zakim, ??P2 is me
12:59:21 <Zakim> +tobiasb; got it
12:59:36 <Zakim> -Marc_Schroeder
12:59:40 <Zakim> +??P4
13:00:15 <Zakim> +[VrijeUni]
13:00:38 <Zakim> +wbailer
13:00:41 <VeroniqueM> zakim, [VrijeUni] is me
13:00:41 <Zakim> +VeroniqueM; got it
13:00:59 <Daniel> I just participate in IRC due to call trouble in minneapolis. sorry
13:01:14 <Zakim> + +95177aabb
13:01:21 <pchampin> this is me
13:01:31 <Zakim> +Marc_Schroeder.aa
13:02:01 <pchampin> might be me
13:02:05 <Zakim> -pchampin
13:02:08 <pchampin> is it better ?
13:02:50 <fsasaki> present: ruben, tobiasb, Marc_Schroeder.a, Felix, wonsuk, wbailer, VeroniqueM, jean-pierre, hui, pchampin
13:03:06 <fsasaki> regrets: Raphael, Davy, Frank
13:04:07 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose VeroniqueM
13:04:28 <fsasaki> scribe: VeroniqueM
13:04:50 <fsasaki> topic: Agenda review / approval of previous minutes
13:04:56 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0080.html
13:05:02 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html
13:05:04 <erik> erik has joined #mediaann
13:05:45 <VeroniqueM> previous minutes are approved
13:05:59 <fsasaki> topic: Selection of scribe for next meeting
13:06:00 <Zakim> +Marc_Schroeder
13:07:17 <VeroniqueM> next scribe: Joachim
13:07:32 <fsasaki> topic: Action items
13:07:37 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/open
13:08:01 <Daniel> s/Joachim/Joakim
13:08:03 <fsasaki> ACTION-22 - pending, waiting for feedback
13:08:13 <vrodrgue> vrodrgue has joined #mediaann
13:08:14 <VeroniqueM> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/22
13:08:23 <fsasaki> close ACTION-32
13:08:23 <trackbot> ACTION-32 Make a liaison with MPEG using information from the XP homepage closed
13:08:42 <fsasaki> ACTION-33 - pending, waiting for feedback
13:08:54 <fsasaki> close ACTION-34
13:08:55 <trackbot> ACTION-34 Contact Open IPTV forum closed
13:09:17 <Daniel> who's responsible for ACTION-32 MPEG liaison ?
13:09:34 <fsasaki> close ACTION-36 
13:09:34 <trackbot> ACTION-36 Make a liaison with OMA closed
13:10:02 <fsasaki> Daniel, that was you, no?
13:10:30 <Daniel> yes, me
13:10:42 <fsasaki> ok. Should we keep the action item open?
13:11:03 <Daniel> I am in Minneapoils and at room, but internet line is not good for making a call
13:11:17 <fsasaki> ok. I will keep ACTION-32 open for now.
13:11:27 <vrodrgue> Ruben and me were causing noise because of acoustic coupling. We will share microphone and bother no more)
13:11:29 <Daniel> No, who should work for ACTION32 ?
13:11:37 <VeroniqueM> s/Minneapoils/Minneapolis
13:12:17 <fsasaki> Daniel, maybe we can discuss this then you are back on the phone, and keep the action-32 just open for now. OK?
13:12:53 <Daniel> no problem
13:13:29 <fsasaki> ACTION-37 - Write a mail about the general structure of the use cases / req document - pending
13:13:51 <fsasaki> topic: Upcoming meetings / time schedule
13:14:05 <fsasaki> two more meetings before f2f. Goal before f2f:
13:14:06 <fsasaki> - finish XMP review, please look into http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP
13:14:08 <fsasaki> - make progress with use case / requirements document
13:14:09 <fsasaki> - have a list of core questions about our scope, see "URI as value" and "proposal for ontology and API" thread
13:14:11 <fsasaki> Goals at f2f:
13:14:12 <fsasaki> a) 1 day for use case / requirements document
13:14:14 <fsasaki> b) 1/2 day for finding answers to the "scope" related questions
13:14:15 <fsasaki> c) 1/2 day to distribute and start work: people looking into mapping specific, existing formats to XMP, plus other work items related to b)
13:15:02 <Zakim> -Marc_Schroeder
13:16:12 <VeroniqueM> there are several questions to be answered before we can move on: what level of abstraction do we want, structured model or flat one, uri question etc.
13:16:44 <VeroniqueM> at the f2f we could try to define the scope of the ontology
13:16:54 <VeroniqueM> at the f2f we could try to define the scope of the ontologyand define properties to map
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13:17:32 <VeroniqueM> topics to be moved forward in the next calls and f2f meeting
13:18:14 <fsasaki> veronique: for the use case / req document we need input from the people who contributed
13:18:27 <fsasaki> .. bilateral discussions with the editors could be useful
13:19:26 <VeroniqueM> Werner: we need a better dfinition of what is expected from the use cases in terms of requirements
13:20:00 <VeroniqueM> Felix: two approaches are possible
13:20:09 <VeroniqueM> Felix: two approaches are possible.. define use cases very clearly
13:20:22 <VeroniqueM> Felix: two approaches are possible.. define use cases very clearly.. and define requirements and level of complexity
13:20:38 <VeroniqueM> Felix: two approaches are possible.. define use cases very clearly.. and define requirements and level of complexity.. other choice is starting from existing ontologies
13:20:52 <VeroniqueM> Felix: two approaches are possible.. define use cases very clearly.. and define requirements and level of complexity.. other choice is starting from existing ontologies.. and define what complexity is needed in them
13:22:23 <VeroniqueM> Felix: we need to decide if we want the sequential approach: use case -> requirements -> api
13:22:39 <VeroniqueM> .. or work in parallel
13:23:05 <VeroniqueM> Werner: the idea is not to create the ontology to cover all the needs from the use cases
13:23:31 <VeroniqueM> .. but check out the requirements and models that are relevant for more
13:23:47 <VeroniqueM> .. these will have more impact
13:24:19 <VeroniqueM> Felix: f2f we can discuss the two drafts: api and requirement document
13:25:30 <fsasaki> veronique: idea to send use case on the list and the contributor could say "this was the intended meaning"
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13:26:01 <fsasaki> veronquie: video use case is very vaque
13:26:47 <Daniel> vague ?
13:26:56 <fsasaki> s/vaque/vague/
13:27:02 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/VideoUC
13:27:50 <fsasaki> veronique: all use cases have some sentences which are unclear
13:28:41 <VeroniqueM> Felix: maybe an idea could be for the contributors of each use case to clarify them, or another possibility could be to simplify these descriptions 
13:28:48 <fsasaki> veronique: having a template might help
13:29:44 <VeroniqueM> ACTION 37: Felix to make a proposal for a template to describe the use cases
13:29:44 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 37
13:29:59 <Daniel> good idea for having a template for the use cases
13:30:07 <VeroniqueM> ACTION 37 Felix to make a proposal for a template to describe the use cases
13:30:07 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 37
13:30:35 <fsasaki> topic:  XMP review
13:30:44 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP
13:31:16 <VeroniqueM> ?? contributes to the Dublin Core section
13:31:33 <fsasaki> s/??/Thierry/
13:31:38 <VeroniqueM> s/contributes/contributed/
13:32:44 <VeroniqueM> do people have specific ideas about a simple representation vs multilayer, or should this topic be discussed later, rather?
13:32:55 <fsasaki> topic: Draft for Use cases and requirements document
13:33:10 <fsasaki> veronique: I am rewriting the introduction, merging it with different views
13:33:25 <fsasaki> .. use cases related to media, context etc.
13:33:37 <VictorR> it is fine
13:33:43 <wbailer> +1
13:33:44 <fsasaki> .. cultural heritage is another one
13:34:07 <fsasaki> +1
13:35:02 <fsasaki> topic: Multilevel description review
13:35:08 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/MultilevelDescriptionReview
13:36:02 <rtous> sorry 
13:36:08 <VeroniqueM> Felix: could Ruben make a short introduction of his document/
13:36:11 <rtous> I've a problem with the micro
13:36:16 <fsasaki> np, waiting
13:36:34 <rtous> I can do it by IRC
13:36:54 <fsasaki> yes, go ahead
13:37:06 <rtous> We have identified several aspects related to multi-level description
13:37:14 <rtous> I've added a table to the end of the page
13:37:37 <rtous> 1) different abstractions (work-manifestation-instance-item)
13:37:56 <rtous> 2) intellectual property aspects (MVCO)
13:38:00 <rtous> 3) collections
13:38:05 <rtous> 4) whole/part
13:38:14 <rtous> 5) creation workflow (derived from)
13:38:17 <rtous> My conclusion:
13:38:36 <rtous> Resources are related, we should at least keep some links between them
13:38:49 <rtous> Like "dc:source" "dc:relation", etc
13:39:41 <tobiasb> I also would suggest to have a look at the FRBR relations
13:39:44 <rtous> however the possibility of a more complex structure should be considered
13:40:33 <rtous> yes, this is all
13:40:51 <rtous> thanks
13:40:57 <VeroniqueM> maybe as was suggested by Silvia on the mailing list, these relations (FRBR) are related to collection management
13:41:16 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0076.html
13:41:26 <fsasaki> (mail from Silvia)
13:41:52 <VictorR> they are not necessarility to collection management
13:41:53 <VeroniqueM> and we should not include a complex model in our ontology, but be able to "plug into" complex models
13:42:25 <VeroniqueM> no, agreed, but they are very "context dependent", somehow
13:43:07 <VictorR> This idea of plugging more complex models sounds reasonable
13:43:18 <VeroniqueM> that could be part of the requirements for tasks-related use cases
13:44:41 <wbailer> the plug-in could define specialisations of concepts in the core model, eg a more specific type of relation between resources
13:45:35 <VeroniqueM> ACTION: VeroniqueM to send around an exemple of what she means with "plugging into complex model"
13:45:35 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - VeroniqueM
13:46:35 <VeroniqueM> Felix: are there other thoughts on Ruben's document?
13:46:37 <VictorR> I do naturally agree with Ruben´s document.
13:46:59 <wbailer> it provides a very good overview
13:47:10 <tobiasb> +1
13:47:28 <fsasaki> +1
13:47:30 <Daniel> +1
13:47:47 <fsasaki> topic: Proposal for ontology and api structure
13:47:53 <fsasaki> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-api-1.0/mediaont-api-1.0.html
13:48:12 <VeroniqueM> Felix: we had some discussions on the mailing list
13:48:33 <VeroniqueM> .. related to a proposal from MPEG
13:48:51 <VeroniqueM> .. also working on an API
13:49:27 <VeroniqueM> .. discussion about standalone format/not
13:49:56 <VeroniqueM> .. we can discuss this here too: what do people think?
13:50:26 <VictorR> MPEG´s API (called MXM) is still in an early stage but has interesting points to look at
13:51:07 <VictorR> [I participate also in its writting]
13:51:26 <VictorR> Yes, it is OK, together with Christian Timmerer
13:52:01 <VeroniqueM> ACTION to VictoR to look into the MPEG API
13:52:01 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to
13:52:29 <VeroniqueM> ACTION VictoR to look into the MPEG API
13:52:29 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - VictoR
13:52:39 <VeroniqueM> ACTION VictorR to look into the MPEG API
13:52:39 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - VictorR
13:53:23 <VeroniqueM> Felix: we could discuss the structure of the ontology
13:55:56 <VeroniqueM> Tobias: depends on the use cases and requirements, what type of structure we want
13:56:28 <VeroniqueM> .. list is ok if the use cases can be fulfilled with that
13:56:51 <VeroniqueM> .. otherwise need of a more complex structure
13:57:20 <VeroniqueM> ACTION Felix to draft a first agenda for the f2f meeting
13:57:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-38 - Draft a first agenda for the f2f meeting [on Felix Sasaki - due 2008-11-25].
13:57:52 <Zakim> -wonsuk
13:58:03 <VeroniqueM> Felix: we should include a slot for this topic
13:58:19 <fsasaki> topic: transmission.cc
13:58:23 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0030.html
13:58:25 <vrodrgue> vrodrgue has joined #mediaann
13:58:46 <Zakim> + +46.8.75.7.aacc
13:58:57 <VeroniqueM> Felix: we had feedback about this from a person from Yahoo!
13:59:18 <VeroniqueM> .. but did not get his info yet
13:59:36 <VeroniqueM> .. does anyone has opinions about this format?
13:59:50 <VeroniqueM> .. format is transmission cc
14:00:16 <VeroniqueM> Tobias: format supposed to be simpler than media rss
14:00:34 <VeroniqueM> Tobias: but can't really see the difference
14:00:48 <js> js has joined #mediaann
14:01:11 <VeroniqueM> Felix: google youtube API is an input for (their?) API
14:01:41 <fsasaki> s/is an input for (their?) API/also uses mediaRSS, not sure if the use transmission.cc/
14:01:56 <tobiasb> One difference is that TXFeed explicitely allows to reference external databases for metadata, videos and subtitle databases.
14:03:07 <VeroniqueM> ACTION Tobias to put description about transmission cc in Wiki
14:03:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-39 - Put description about transmission cc in Wiki [on Tobias Bürger - due 2008-11-25].
14:03:30 <js> Hi, Sorry for checking inlate I misstken the time
14:03:48 <Zakim> -ruben
14:03:51 <vrodrgue> Thanks you, all
14:03:56 <Zakim> - +46.8.75.7.aacc
14:03:59 <tobiasb> bye!
14:04:00 <rtous> bye
14:04:02 <wonsuk> bye
14:04:04 <Zakim> -tobiasb
14:04:10 <Zakim> -VeroniqueM
14:04:11 <Zakim> -wbailer
14:04:13 <js> logout
14:04:15 <hui> bye
14:04:17 <Zakim> -Felix
14:04:19 <Zakim> -Marc_Schroeder.aa
14:04:25 <erik> Felix ... For the 2nd F2F @ Ghent, Media Annotations has 9 (live) participants so far (Daniel, Tobias, Jean-Pierre, WonSuk, Joakim, Frank, Felix, Victor, Werner)
14:04:45 <erik> ... but only three have already booked their hotel (Daniel, Felix, Joakim) ... I just hope the other ones have booked elsewhere, or will book soon ... just letting you all know
14:04:57 <tobiasb> I also booked a hotel already...
14:05:11 <Daniel> thanks Erik for your info.
14:06:00 <erik> Hope to be able to call in next time and give some more info
14:06:05 <erik> bye
14:06:14 <pchampin> pchampin has left #mediaann
14:06:17 <Zakim> +Felix
14:06:26 <wonsuk> wonsuk has left #mediaann
14:06:38 <Daniel> thanks Felix
14:06:42 <Zakim> -Marc_Schroeder.a
14:06:43 <VictorR2> VictorR2 has joined #mediaann
14:06:48 <VictorR2> Hello, 
14:06:50 <Zakim> IA_MAWG()8:00AM has ended
14:06:51 <Zakim> Attendees were +41.22.717.aaaa, Marc_Schroeder, Felix, tobiasb, wonsuk, ruben, jean-pierre, wbailer, VeroniqueM, +95177aabb, pchampin, +46.8.75.7.aacc
14:06:58 <VictorR2> I have booked the hotel, too.
14:07:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
14:07:33 <VictorR2> Veronique, What about the Action you wanted to create and you failed to?
14:07:46 <VictorR2> was it anything about my User name?
14:08:05 <fsasaki> present+ jean-pierre
14:08:32 <fsasaki> present+ daniel
14:08:51 <Daniel> Daniel has left #mediaann
14:09:00 <VeroniqueM> logout
14:09:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
14:26:18 <fsasaki> action: victor to look into the MPEG API
14:26:18 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - victor
14:26:38 <fsasaki> action: vrodrgue to look into the MPEG API
14:26:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-41 - Look into the MPEG API [on Víctor Rodríguez - due 2008-11-25].
14:40:13 <fsasaki> rrsagent, bye
14:40:13 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-actions.rdf :
14:40:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: 37 to Felix to make a proposal for a template to describe the use cases [1]
14:40:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-irc#T13-29-44
14:40:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: VeroniqueM to send around an exemple of what she means with "plugging into complex model" [2]
14:40:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-irc#T13-45-35
14:40:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: victor to look into the MPEG API [3]
14:40:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-irc#T14-26-18
14:40:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: vrodrgue to look into the MPEG API [4]
14:40:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-irc#T14-26-38
14:40:18 <fsasaki> zakim, bye
14:40:18 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mediaann