17:12:23 RRSAgent has joined #tagmem 17:12:23 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/13-tagmem-irc 17:12:29 zakim, this will be TAG 17:12:29 ok, ht; I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM scheduled to start in 48 minutes 17:12:45 Meeting: TAG telcon 2008-11-13 17:12:51 Chair: Stuart Williams 17:12:57 Scribe: Henry S. Thompson 17:13:02 Scribenick: ht 17:13:29 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/11/13-agenda.html 17:41:25 jar has joined #tagmem 17:55:01 Stuart has joined #tagmem 17:55:46 timbl has joined #tagmem 17:56:28 Stuart has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/11/13-agenda 17:58:51 zakim, this will be tag 17:58:51 ok, Stuart; I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 17:58:57 TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has now started 17:59:04 +??P3 17:59:13 zakim, ?? is me 17:59:13 +Stuart; got it 18:00:06 +Norm 18:00:09 -Stuart 18:00:10 +Stuart 18:01:02 +Jonathan_Rees 18:01:07 noah has joined #tagmem 18:01:45 As noted in my regrets, I have some conflicts with today's call, but I'll try to keep an occasional eye out for IRC, and dial in if something comes up for which I am needed. Thank you. 18:01:51 +Danc 18:01:52 zakim, who is here? 18:01:52 On the phone I see Stuart, Norm, Jonathan_Rees, Danc (muted) 18:01:53 On IRC I see noah, timbl, Stuart, jar, RRSAgent, Zakim, DanC_lap, ht, DanC, Norm, trackbot 18:02:03 +Raman 18:02:19 noah, it's a bummer I can't seem to chat with you and ht at the same time about the dec ftf 18:02:29 zakim, please call ht-781 18:02:29 ok, ht; the call is being made 18:02:31 +Ht 18:03:49 Topic: Review of Agenda 18:03:53 +1 approve http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/10/16-minutes 18:03:57 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/11/13-agenda.html 18:04:15 SW: Other topics? 18:04:31 DC: Assume that ?? stuff would come up some time 18:04:40 SW: Issue 61? We will add this 18:04:46 s/??/package URIs/ 18:05:02 Topic: Previous minutes 18:05:07 +1 approve http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/11/06-minutes 18:05:15 SW: Minutes from 16 October: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/16-tagmem-minutes 18:05:29 ... and 6 Nov. f2f: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/11/06-minutes 18:05:37 RESOLVED: Approved as circulated 18:05:46 Topic: Next meetings 18:06:02 (noah, you're ok to scribe 20 Nov?) 18:06:04 Meet next on 20 November, scribe duty to Noah, whom failing DanC 18:06:17 Meeting of 27 November is cancelled 18:06:27 Topic: Responding to "Content Transformation Guidelines" LC Review request 18:06:57 NW: I've reviewed this, and as far as I understand it, I think they are using proxies in the way they are meant to be used 18:07:05 dorchard has joined #tagmem 18:07:06 +dorchard 18:07:15 SW: What about relation to Generic Resources? 18:07:39 NW: Didn't see that explicitly, but any transformation gives a new representation 18:07:48 DC: Are there multiple URIs? 18:08:04 NW: I think not 18:08:11 DC: TV, any thoughts on that? 18:08:19 TVR: Not at the moment 18:08:30 SW: Anything we need to push on? 18:08:38 ... Last Call has actually expired 18:08:41 q+ to ask norm to tell me the typical use case/story 18:08:55 ack danc 18:08:55 DanC, you wanted to ask norm to tell me the typical use case/story 18:08:59 NW: I see no need to do anything other than say "Fine" 18:09:10 DC: Can you tell me a typical use case story? 18:09:58 NW: There are proxies set up so that e.g. a rich web site goes through the proxy and is transformed to something viewable on your mobile -- I think sidekick exploits this 18:10:06 DC: Any good recommendations 18:10:24 NW: Well, yes, don't change request headers was one bit 18:10:39 DC: Ah, perhaps the HTTP working party should look at this 18:10:45 NW: Good idea 18:10:59 q? 18:11:33 SW: I will send a courtesy message saying we have nothing to say. . . 18:11:56 Topic: Issue namespaceDocument-8 (ISSUE-8) 18:12:12 DC: HST has the ball 18:13:10 HST: I foresee progress in the new year 18:13:59 HST: So we could close the issue w/o completing the action (yet) 18:14:07 ACTION-23 due 2008-02-01 18:14:07 ACTION-23 track progress of #int bug 1974 in the XML Schema namespace document in the XML Schema WG due date now 2008-02-01 18:14:19 DC: The two are now linked, via the Issue being in state Pending Review 18:14:38 Topic: Dec F2F - Call for Agenda Items 18:15:37 SW: Some items already suggested: Self-describing Web, Uniform Access to Metadata, ??? 18:15:59 ... Wrt UAM, JR has an action to produce some words, but not due until next year 18:16:06 I remain somewhat optimistic of having a new Self-Describing Web draft. Bad news: unlikely to be as far ahead of F2F as I would like; Good news: I would expect changes to be well-isolated and easy to review, given thorough discussion we had in Bristol. 18:16:15 JR: I will try to get something before us -- at least some slides 18:16:24 SW: DO, what about Versioning? 18:16:47 DO: I hope to get to it next week or the week after 18:17:08 JR: I believe I'm waiting for some input from DO 18:17:16 DO: I believe I'm waiting for JR 18:17:26 SW: Sounds like you should talk 18:17:27 action-181? 18:17:27 ACTION-181 -- Jonathan Rees to update versioning formalism to align with terminology in versioning compatibility strategies -- due 2008-10-16 -- OPEN 18:17:27 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/181 18:17:28 action-182? 18:17:28 ACTION-182 -- David Orchard to provide example for jar to work into the formalism -- due 2008-10-23 -- OPEN 18:17:31 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/182 18:17:41 SW: JR, DO will talk offline 18:17:54 action-183? 18:17:54 ACTION-183 -- David Orchard to incorporate formalism into versioning compatibility strategies -- due 2008-10-23 -- OPEN 18:17:54 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/183 18:18:07 (indeed, the tracker state looks like... or is consistent with... deadlock) 18:18:28 SW: I have suggested giving each member a slot to motivate a topic, one they care about, either new, ongoing or forgotten 18:19:38 s/???/Versioning/ 18:19:55 SW: HST, URNsAndRegistries? 18:20:01 q+ 18:20:05 I'm muted on my cell as well. 18:20:06 HST: Yes, I will have new prose in time for f2f 18:20:10 ack danc 18:20:11 on tagSoup: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/markup-spec/ 18:20:31 DC: Mike Smith is working on a language spec. document for HTML 5 18:21:08 ... ref. TagSoupIntegration 18:21:42 DC: New W3C travel policy would mean I might get this trip and no others until TPAC 18:22:00 SW: So you are asking if we should meet? 18:22:02 DC: Yes 18:22:49 HST: I had assumed we would meet, planning to buy tickets soon 18:23:37 dec 1st is end of period 18:24:46 q+ to turn it around 18:25:23 ack ht 18:25:23 ht, you wanted to turn it around 18:27:18 q? 18:28:46 SW: NW and TVR will not be there, DO uncertain. NW and DO will join by 'phone 18:31:02 HST: I believe we will have enough people to do useful work 18:31:17 SW: We will meet, HST can buy tickets 18:32:27 SW: I would request more responses when I ask for agenda input 18:32:33 Topic: Review of action items 18:33:12 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/agenda 18:33:14 I will be at the December meeting (which if course is convenient for me). 18:33:17 SW: Let's look at the list of open actions, by issue: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/agenda 18:33:19 raman has joined #tagmem 18:34:29 SW: Is ACTION-24 a worthwhile thing for Tim to pursue 18:34:45 DC: Well, TBL does say when asked that we should keep this open 18:35:03 ... I proposed to close on the basis of the XQuery spec. 18:35:16 ... and there's the HTML5 spec's new input on this 18:36:22 SW: So the topic title asks a question 18:36:40 DC: That's overtaken for sure: W3C specs _do_ support IRIs 18:36:58 ... What's at the heart of WebArch, IRIs or URIs -- answer 'yes' 18:37:13 ACTION-188? 18:37:13 ACTION-188 -- Dan Connolly to investigate the URL/IRI/Larry Masinter possible resolution of the URL/HTML5 issue. -- due 2008-10-31 -- OPEN 18:37:13 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/188 18:37:23 SW: Anyone want to work on this? 18:37:41 DC: Even if not, OK to have the issue there as a marker 18:38:09 SW: ISSUE-30 / ACTION-176 -- NM, DO, any progress? 18:38:10 (noah, are you OK to keep ACTION-176 open without Dave?) 18:38:15 action-176? 18:38:16 ACTION-176 -- Noah Mendelsohn to work with Dave to draft comments on exi w.r.t. evaluation and efficiency -- due 2008-09-30 -- OPEN 18:38:16 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/176 18:38:42 DO: I think NM has made some progress, I request to be released from this, too much load elsewhere 18:38:59 SW: ISSUE-34 / ACTION-113 18:39:05 HST: Yes, it will happen someday 18:39:37 SW: ISSUE-35 / ACTION-130 XHTML/GRDDL 18:39:47 DC: Namespace doc't has been updated 18:40:14 SW: If you think it can be closed, please do so, leave a pointer to where the action is addressed 18:40:17 DC: OK 18:40:26 ... What about the issue? 18:40:30 action-130: http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml rev 2008/10/14 22:08:29 18:40:31 ACTION-130 Consult with Dan and Ralph about the gap between the XHTML namespace and the GRDDL transformation for RDFa notes added 18:40:46 SW: XHTML + RDF has done it, right? 18:40:59 s/RDFa/RDF/ 18:41:18 close action-130 18:41:18 ACTION-130 Consult with Dan and Ralph about the gap between the XHTML namespace and the GRDDL transformation for RDFa closed 18:41:41 s/RDF/RDFa 18:41:43 s/RDF/RDFa 18:42:00 [note to self: fix RDFa] 18:42:05 q? 18:42:18 HST: As long as the issue is XHTML, we're good 18:42:29 TVR: RFDa works fine with HTML 18:42:38 HST: I dispute the 'fine' 18:42:48 SW: and I wonder about the 'works' 18:43:01 [TagSoup digression] 18:43:24 SW: Propose to close ISSUE-35 18:43:37 TVR: By pointing to RDFa 18:43:41 DC: And GRDDL 18:43:43 (indeed, -1 on the empty proposal to close; we need a technical decision.) 18:44:27 RESOLUTION: Close ISSUE-35 on the basis the RDFa and GRDDL provide the desired solution 18:45:08 HST: We need an action 18:45:15 DC: I will take it 18:45:27 s/action/action to explain the resolution to the public/ 18:45:37 trackbot, status? 18:45:49 ACTION: Dan announce decision on rdf-in-html-35 and invite feedback 18:45:49 Created ACTION-191 - Announce decision on rdf-in-html-35 and invite feedback [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-11-20]. 18:45:50 Am I right that we instructed me to include in next draft of Self-describing Web a story on how you could follow your nose from HTML media types to RDFa? 18:45:54 ACTION: Dan to close ISSUE-35 with a public explanation 18:45:54 Created ACTION-192 - Close ISSUE-35 with a public explanation [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-11-20]. 18:46:14 zakim, who is here? 18:46:15 On the phone I see Stuart, Norm, Jonathan_Rees, Danc, Raman, Ht, dorchard 18:46:17 On IRC I see raman, dorchard, noah, timbl, Stuart, jar, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, DanC, Norm, trackbot 18:46:24 ISSUE-41 / outstanding actions 18:46:33 SW: Assuming there will be progress by the F2F 18:46:35 JR: Yes 18:46:42 close action-192 18:46:42 ACTION-192 Close ISSUE-35 with a public explanation closed 18:46:47 s/ISSUE-41/SW: ISSUE-41/ 18:47:02 SW: ISSUE-50 / ACTION-33 18:47:07 action-192: dup of 191 18:47:07 ACTION-192 Close ISSUE-35 with a public explanation notes added 18:47:42 trackbot, close ACTION-189 18:47:43 ACTION-189 S. Send public comment to www-tag about the XRI proposal and the establishment of base URI. closed 18:48:00 HST: Others are indeed open 18:48:19 SW: ISSUE-52 / ACTION-150 18:48:29 SW: Finding published 18:48:33 ... and announced 18:49:01 action-150: done. see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2008Oct/0091.html 18:49:01 ACTION-150 Finish refs etc on passwords in the clear finding [inc post Sept 2008 F2F updates] notes added 18:49:20 issue-52: finding: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/passwordsInTheClear-52-20081008.html 18:49:20 ISSUE-52 Sending passwords in the clear notes added 18:50:06 trackbot, close ACTION-150 18:50:06 ACTION-150 Finish refs etc on passwords in the clear finding [inc post Sept 2008 F2F updates] closed 18:50:27 DC: Did we hear back from anyone? Is there anyone we should be waiting on? 18:50:36 SW: We could ask Ed Rice? 18:50:40 DO: I will do so 18:51:42 DC: Do we have any recent input from Security Context 18:51:47 s/Context/Context?/ 18:51:57 SW: Not from the group, no 18:52:08 DO: We did our best to address several individual comments 18:52:45 SW: Any response to the publication announcement? 18:52:53 DO: Not that I'm aware of 18:53:06 issue-52? 18:53:06 ISSUE-52 -- Sending passwords in the clear -- RAISED 18:53:06 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/52 18:53:29 close issue-52 18:53:49 SW: Close the issue now? Wait for Ed? 18:54:01 issue-52? 18:54:01 ISSUE-52 -- Sending passwords in the clear -- CLOSED 18:54:01 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/52 18:54:11 TVR: Not necessary, close it and notify him as a courtesy 18:54:28 SW: ISSUE-54 / three actions wrt TagSoup 18:54:44 DC: Recent progress on validator, some of it public. . . 18:54:50 action-7: http://www.w3.org/QA/2008/11/dreamimg_a_new_css_validator.html 18:54:50 ACTION-7 draft a position regarding extensibility of HTML and the role of the validator for consideration by the TAG notes added 18:55:33 DC: Blog posting by Olivier Theroux, which has attracted favourable comment 18:55:43 SW: Waiting for Tim on the other two 18:56:20 s/Olivier Theroux/Olivier Théreaux/ 18:57:19 ACTION-188 due 20 Nov 2008 18:57:19 ACTION-188 Investigate the URL/IRI/Larry Masinter possible resolution of the URL/HTML5 issue. due date now 20 Nov 2008 18:57:46 HST: Wrt ACTION-145, I still hope TBL will produce a publication from the positive parts of his paper and his TPAC slides 18:58:02 DC: I'm about to get going on ACTION-188 18:58:11 (I'd like us to keep due dates in the future; if the chair expects tbl to continue work on 116, let's give it a due date in the future... e.g. the ftf agenda timeframe...) 18:58:12 SW: ISSUE-57 / three actions 18:58:17 action-116 due 1 Dec 2008 18:58:17 ACTION-116 Align the tabulator internal vocabulary with the vocabulary in the rules http://esw.w3.org/topic/AwwswDboothsRules, getting changes to either as needed. due date now 1 Dec 2008 18:58:38 JR: ACTION-184 is about to be done 18:58:54 SW: We're expecting something on ACTION-178 for the F2F 18:59:08 SW: ISSUE-58 / ACTION-163 18:59:22 NW: I still hope to work with Ted Guild on this, it is important 18:59:40 SW: ISSUE-60 / three actions 18:59:50 NW: I have sent TVR a review 19:00:20 SW: I will do ACTION-143 at some point 19:00:34 (possible ftf fodder: the iphone urls thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2008Oct/0002.html ) 19:00:53 SW: ACTION-106 19:01:08 NW: No progress, but I will try to get that ready for the f2f 19:01:27 SW: I have done ACTION-190 19:01:36 trackbot, close ACTION-190 19:01:36 ACTION-190 Make the above resolution visible on www-tag closed 19:01:44 close action-190 19:01:44 ACTION-190 Make the above resolution visible on www-tag closed 19:02:26 agenda + ADsafe javascript 19:02:27 ACTION-106: NW sent comments to TVR privately 19:02:28 ACTION-106 Make a pass over the WebArch 2.0 doc't which adds a paragraph, and connects up to issues list notes added 19:02:43 trackbot, close ACTION-106 19:02:43 ACTION-106 Make a pass over the WebArch 2.0 doc't which adds a paragraph, and connects up to issues list closed 19:03:02 TVR: I'm not sure about how to take this forward 19:03:37 ... I don't plan to pick it up, except to possibly add new uses 19:03:52 TVR: I don't see how to get it to the right audience. . . 19:04:03 SW, DC: Is there a blog article in there? 19:04:10 found it... http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url 19:04:10 TVR: Perhaps. . . 19:05:06 DC: Maybe I'll try to adapt it 19:05:10 TVR: I will help 19:05:43 ACTION: Dan to try to draft a blog posting adapted from http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url, with help from TVR 19:05:43 Created ACTION-193 - Try to draft a blog posting adapted from http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url, with help from TVR [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-11-20]. 19:06:29 issue-61 19:06:32 issue-61? 19:06:32 ISSUE-61 -- URI Based Access to Packaged Items -- OPEN 19:06:32 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/61 19:07:23 SW: We will discuss that next week 19:07:36 Topic: December f2f topics 19:07:57 http://www.adsafe.org/ 19:08:06 DC: HTML5 and URLs, reread Doug Crockford's safe JavaScript 19:08:20 ... He's added a mode to JSLINT which verifies this 19:08:37 ... He's very critical of the work on cross-site access controls 19:08:51 ... He has an alternative, namely JSON-request 19:09:09 ... What could be the improvement, by using JSON instead of XML? 19:09:23 ... We could study that space, perhaps 19:09:39 TVR: I tried to find the answer to that question, but didn't see it 19:10:24 SW: DC, could you assemble a reading list? 19:10:45 ... If we scheduled this at the right time, could you join us by phone, TV? 19:11:25 TVR: No, sorry, I will be travelling on the 11, and preparing on the day before 19:11:39 SW: Sounds like a good idea in any case, DC, reading list please 19:11:45 iphone urls thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2008Oct/0002.html 19:11:56 DC: There there's the iphone: URL thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2008Oct/0002.html 19:12:16 ... I can't get this started yet 19:12:47 ... MNot says [tongue in cheek?] "We need an Arch Group for this sort of thing" 19:13:09 ... I like tel: . . . blog entry: ??? 19:13:39 SW: We can talk about this on a call -- let's find a slot on one of the next two calls 19:13:48 (blog entry that celebrates tel: support http://www.w3.org/QA/2007/08/iphone_developer_guidelines_pr.html ) 19:14:05 TVR: We should maybe write down URI schemes we know about 19:14:13 (I try to garden http://esw.w3.org/topic/UriSchemes somewhat actively) 19:14:18 ... [lists some] 19:14:33 TVR: It does help to look at these 19:14:53 HST does review the registered and unregistered schemes lists with some regularity 19:15:08 http://esw.w3.org/topic/UriSchemes/ed2k 19:15:48 DC: p2p ones are not lookup + hierarchy 19:16:12 ... I am bored by proposals which suggest replacing DNS 19:16:19 ... but these don't do that 19:16:41 TVR: There are 4 parts to a URI: protocol, host, path and ?? 19:17:08 ... But consider ??? -- doesn't change the host/DNS part, but changes the handler 19:17:34 ... Or ado:, as a protocol identifier for local work [missed some] 19:17:36 (ado isn't among the list in http://esw.w3.org/topic/UriSchemes . hmm.) 19:17:40 Yes, the fact that protocol handlers are easy to register is the interesting angle to me 19:18:03 s/and ??/port/ 19:18:14 s/path port/path and port/ 19:18:21 kind of browser architecture stuff... maybe html5 should say something about plugin handlers... 19:19:01 DC: SchemeProtocols is a good area to wander around periodically, not necessarly to try to draw hard conclusions 19:19:10 SW: ADJOURNED 19:19:25 -dorchard 19:19:31 RRSAgent, make logs world-visible 19:19:32 -Norm 19:19:34 -Stuart 19:19:42 RRSAgent, draft minutes 19:19:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/13-tagmem-minutes.html ht 19:19:44 -Raman 19:19:55 -Ht 19:20:03 Take it easy Norm! 19:30:10 ACTION-145: see audio recording of tim's TPAC talk, to appear near http://www.w3.org/2008/10/TPAC/TPDay-Agenda 19:30:10 ACTION-145 Add public prose around his slides at the AC meeting to make the case for extensiblity and flexible XML notes added 20:02:27 -Jonathan_Rees 20:07:27 disconnecting the lone participant, Danc, in TAG_Weekly()1:00PM 20:07:29 TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended 20:07:30 Attendees were Stuart, Norm, Jonathan_Rees, Danc, Raman, Ht, dorchard 20:12:01 timbl has joined #tagmem