<Steven> better to use trackbot

<Steven> trackbot, start telcon

<trackbot> Date: 12 November 2008

<Tina> As mentioned I am without a functional phone due to teleco salesfellow.

<scribe> Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita

<scribe> ScribeNick: oedipus

<scribe> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0005.html

previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/11/04-xhtml-minutes.html

TOPIC 1: Agenda Review

RM: anything anyone wants to address specifically?

SP: did you see reqeest for review for Selectors API
... fear we may not have reviewed first time around

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0004.html

http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/selectors-api/

quote: "As with LC #1, we explicitly request a review from the following WGs:

CSS, HTML, Math, P&F, SVG, XHTML2 and XML Core.

RM: relevant to us

SP: remember Mark dismissive of this; of opinion not worth dealing with but should revisit

RM: does it cause any difficulties or does it help us?

SM: namespace things in it relevant to XML Events 2 and may be to CURIEs

SP: CSS selectors api

http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/selectors-api/

SM: talks about DOM3 and namespaces

SP: title of the document makes it sound more general than is -- selecting items using CSS selectors
... string parameter - text of CSS selector

SM: [role=foo:bar] - how does that get mapped?

SP: foo is any URI string?

SM: maybe not

SP: namespace suppport for elements, namespace support for attributes, but no namespace support for values; need to use literal prefixes

SM: treats as token

SP: biggest objection is that CSS Selectors designed for very specific use case - serial rendering of documents; shaped syntax of selectors: some things possible, some impossible, and some get in the way of incremental rendering; can't collect previous sibling, but following sibling because previous sibling already rendered; CSS Selectors a bad API selector -- really need something more general
... that's why i think of little relevance -- decided to use XPath in XForms and XHTML2 to avoid such a problem

RM: will someone review on our behalf and make reocommendation as to how to respond?

SP: when does LC end?

GJR: 12 December 2008

SP: second last call, so shorter review
... not sure if i have sufficient expertise - very much a DOM-thing

RM: look at it from our perspective - from our PoV looks ok

SP: anyone think could do this?

RM: SP familiar with CSS it is based on

SP: least interesting part of this - here is syntax over there, will do it

<scribe> ACTION: Steven - respond to LC2 call for Selectors API - 2008-11-30 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-20 - - respond to LC2 call for Selectors API - 2008-11-30 [on Steven Pemberton - due 2008-11-19].

SP: due to unused vacation days will be gone most of december

Transitions

RM: 3 resolved to go to CR: CURIE, Role and Access

SP: CURIE request sent; other 2 will be sent by end of week

SM: sent how?

SP: transmission requests

RM's summary of TPAC resolutions & related stuff: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Oct/0040.html

RM: status of XML Events 2?

SM: updated draft on 24 October 2008 - believe that addresses everything discussed at meeting - sent out post to that effect

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Oct/0024.html

RM: please read and review before next week

<Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xml-events2

RM: XHTML Mime

SM: appendix needs to be updated

RM: in response to comments on mime document

SM: that's my action item

<Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtmlmime

SM: example doesn't match guidelines, but we knew that and will fix

SP: never been through reissuing a note before - announced to HTC, fielded comments, and when we are done, just publish - no pub approval cycle for Note

SM: shouldn't update until example more complete

RM: odd thing is XHTML Media Types Second Edition, but doesn't say note

SP: in statement - status also goes where "Editor's Draft" is now

SM: careful to keep editor's draft until ready to push

RM: only thing outstanding is appendix?

SM: yes
... have an action (18) to fix appendix

SP: when republish, are we going to consider doing PER of 1.0 without appendix C

GJR: as long as we point to Mime Types 2008

SP: appendix guidelines get a lot of flack as not being part of spec and just informative
... olivier has problem that normative parts refer to informative appendix C

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/18

SP: outstanding errata for 1.0?

SM: never envisioned re-releasing 1.0

SP: no errata logged for 1.0

RM: seems strange not even any minor editorial nits

SP: already Second Edition, so this would be Third Edition

SM: include schema implementation?

SP: why not?

SM: don't know if trust current schema

SP: think it was feed as DTD through a transformer and hand-tweaked

SM: don't need to do

<scribe> ACTION: Shane - prepare 1.0 PER by removing appendix C and replace with pointer / reference to XHTML Mime [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-21 - - prepare 1.0 PER by removing appendix C and replace with pointer / reference to XHTML Mime [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-11-19].

RM: should be after XHTML Mime goes to transition

SM: a lot of fruit from XHTML Mime, so need to get that pushed

RM: Mime critical path for all PERs on list

SM: yes;
... haven't heard anything more from melinda -- will ping her to ensure nothing else for XHTML Print

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/21

(will annotate after meeting)

Documents in Maintenance Mode

RM: errata for XML Events need to be addressed

SM: did it - done

RM: 4 PERs (excluding 1.0) - where are we with those?
... Basic should be issued; further dialog with Yam?

SP: there is example near end that we didn't create - in appendix says: "here is example" "here is how would look" working on updating that with Yam directly

RM: RDFa not keen to issue PER so soon after issuing spec
... XHTML 1.1 PER status?

SM: ready to go
... Print is ready to og

RM: all refer to Mime document?

SM: Print does not refer to mime doc; 1.1, Basic, RDFa do
... decision of RDFa TF was wait until january and then reissue and correct any errata that arise
... if can get example done, Basic will be ready for PER
... will get 1.0 PER together as well, but first priority is get example done in Mime document - try to get done by tomorrow - will alert group - review changes on list and sign off on it next call

RM: no action outstanding to do example in basic

<scribe> ACTION: Steven - work with Yam on missing example for XHTML Basic - 2008-11-19 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-22 - - work with Yam on missing example for XHTML Basic - 2008-11-19 [on Steven Pemberton - due 2008-11-19].

Open Action Review

<Roland> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/open

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/agenda

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/open

RM: action 4?

SM: checking status now

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/4

RM: role action on GJR

GJR: still need to pin down AlG's response

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/5

RM: Script Implement Attribute model (15) http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/15

SM: working on it

RM: IDREF change http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/16

SM: in process
... http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/19 - origins?

<Steven> close action-19

<trackbot> ACTION-19 craft text to about transformation of XHTML to HTML for the XHTMLMIME draft closed

RM: processor -- moved into tracker list - discussed at phone call of 15 june; put in and ripped out during F2F so think is close

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/agenda

RM: lot of historical actions still in agenda not in tracker
... review and remove or move to tracker

<scribe> ACTION: Shane to start implementing xml schema for xhtml 2.0 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-minutes.html#action04]

[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/08-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-23 - Start implementing xml schema for xhtml 2.0 [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-11-19].

drop action 4

RM: move into tracker

<scribe> new action on Shane: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/23

SP: speak to mark

RM: not sure how been changed

SP: Mark done a lot of modularization

RM: but not in spec

SP: not XHTML schema, but XForms; think Mark has one that implements ???

RM: ACTION: Shane to split 8024 into two issues.

http://www.w3.org/2007/12/12-xhtml-minutes.html#action04

RM: next action on steven redundant
... from f2f to venice: Steven to add text to embedding module saying how it works

<scribe> ACTION: Steven to add text to embedding module saying how it works [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-24 - Add text to embedding module saying how it works [on Steven Pemberton - due 2008-11-19].

SM: action on 8024 done

RM: do we need 4 types of list in XHTML2

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2008May/0005.html

SP: everlasting discussion - where "magic" of semantics resides: element or attribute names; better to have list titled UL with nexted LIs - could say 4 different types of list (UL,OL,DL)

SM: DL only different in that has user defined label

GJR: aria terms "ownedby"

SM: why break compatibility with world?

RM: created new one with navigation list

SP: with addition of role, someone said, now we have role with value of navigation, perhaps navigation list in XHTML2 superfluous

SM: nav list already has implicit role

SP: navigation list the one on the chopping block now that we have role

SM: special behavioral semantics associated with navigation lists

SP: meant to identify certain types of lists; could represent in diff ways on diff devices; if no room for navigation bar, could do as drop down list, which would be a navigation list; circumstantial usage
... if base semantics on role, don't need extra syntax

SM: suggestion is get rid of navigation list in XHTML2 because role makes redundant

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml2-20071024/mod-list.html#edef_list_nl

proposed RESOLVED: review need for nl now that Role exists

RESOLUTION: review need for nl now that Role exists and prepare for discussion at next week's meeting

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml2-20071024/mod-list.html#s_listmodule

RM: Access + RDFa into XHTML2 - still open?

SM: open

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-xhtml-minutes.html#action05

SM: from 31 may 2005
... may be moot
... Media Type and how source type or href type are resolved during requests for content-negotiation

SP: a double-asterisk says will accept anything - don't know how can expand asterisks

SM: doesn't make sense to me, either

RM: close 7800 and 7999 in issue tracking?

SM: can change to rejected because request should still say asterisk

RM: action on steven to devote brain cycles to solving quality values question

SP: needs more thought - clarify what asterisk means

ADJOURN

RM: XHTML2 development topic for next week

<Tina> oedipus: * ;)

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Succeeded: s/7099/7999/
Found Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
Found ScribeNick: oedipus
Default Present: Roland, ShaneM, Steven, Gregory_Rosmaita
Present: Roland ShaneM Steven Gregory_Rosmaita

WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Alessio, Mark)
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Regrets: Mark_Birbeck Alessio_Cartocci Tina_Holmboe
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0005.html
Found Date: 12 Nov 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-minutes.html
People with action items: - 1.0 appendix by c per pointer prepare reference removing replace respond shane steven with

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