14:42:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
14:42:32 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-irc
14:43:03 <rmerric> rmerric has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0005.html
14:43:08 <rmerric> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0005.html
14:43:23 <rmerric> Zakim, this will be xhtml2
14:43:23 <Zakim> ok, rmerric; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:43:50 <Steven> better to use trackbot
14:43:59 <Steven> trackbot, start telcon
14:44:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:44:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2
14:44:03 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:44:04 <trackbot> Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
14:44:05 <trackbot> Date: 12 November 2008
14:44:22 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
14:44:29 <Zakim> +Roland
14:45:16 <Zakim> +McCarron
14:45:27 <ShaneM> zakim, McCarron is ShaneM
14:45:27 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
14:45:49 <Tina> As mentioned I am without a functional phone due to teleco salesfellow.
14:46:08 <Roland> Regrets: Alessio, Mark
14:46:36 <oedipus> oedipus has joined #xhtml
14:46:54 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:46:54 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:46:58 <Zakim> +Steven
14:47:47 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
14:48:16 <oedipus> Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
14:48:21 <oedipus> ScribeNick: oedipus
14:48:30 <oedipus> regrets: Mark_Birbeck, Alessio_Cartocci, Tina_Holmboe
14:48:43 <oedipus> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0005.html
14:49:02 <oedipus> previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/11/04-xhtml-minutes.html
14:49:09 <oedipus> rrsagent, please make minutes
14:49:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
14:49:20 <oedipus> TOPIC 1: Agenda Review
14:49:42 <ShaneM> ShaneM has left #xhtml
14:49:46 <oedipus> RM: anything anyone wants to address specifically?
14:49:51 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #xhtml
14:50:02 <oedipus> SP: did you see reqeest for review for Selectors API
14:50:15 <oedipus> SP: fear we may not have reviewed first time around
14:50:31 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0004.html
14:50:42 <oedipus> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/selectors-api/
14:50:57 <oedipus> quote: "As with LC #1, we explicitly request a review from the following WGs:
14:50:57 <oedipus> CSS, HTML, Math, P&F, SVG, XHTML2 and XML Core.
14:51:22 <oedipus> RM: relevant to us
14:51:48 <oedipus> SP: remember Mark dismissive of this; of opinion not worth dealing with but should revisit
14:52:01 <oedipus> RM: does it cause any difficulties or does it help us?
14:52:23 <oedipus> SM: namespace things in it relevant to XML Events 2 and may be to CURIEs
14:52:47 <oedipus> SP: CSS selectors api
14:52:52 <oedipus> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/selectors-api/
14:53:02 <oedipus> SM: talks about DOM3 and namespaces
14:53:21 <oedipus> SP: title of the document makes it sound more general than is -- selecting items using CSS selectors
14:53:37 <cbottoml> cbottoml has joined #xhtml
14:53:43 <oedipus> SP: string parameter - text of CSS selector
14:54:35 <oedipus> SM: [role=foo:bar] - how does that get mapped?
14:54:44 <oedipus> SP: foo is any URI string?
14:54:47 <oedipus> SM: maybe not
14:55:16 <oedipus> SP: namespace suppport for elements, namespace support for attributes, but no namespace support for values; need to use literal prefixes
14:55:22 <oedipus> SM: treats as token
14:56:58 <oedipus> SP: biggest objection is that CSS Selectors designed for very specific use case - serial rendering of documents; shaped syntax of selectors: some things possible, some impossible, and some get in the way of incremental rendering; can't collect previous sibling, but following sibling because previous sibling already rendered; CSS Selectors a bad API selector -- really need something more general
14:57:37 <oedipus> SP: that's why i think of little relevance -- decided to use XPath in XForms and XHTML2 to avoid such a problem
14:58:00 <oedipus> RM: will someone review on our behalf and make reocommendation as to how to respond?
14:58:18 <oedipus> SP: when does LC end?
14:58:23 <oedipus> GJR: 12 December 2008
14:58:33 <oedipus> SP: second last call, so shorter review
14:59:07 <oedipus> SP: not sure if i have sufficient expertise - very much a DOM-thing
14:59:25 <oedipus> RM: look at it from our perspective - from our PoV looks ok
14:59:46 <oedipus> SP: anyone think could do this?
14:59:59 <oedipus> RM: SP familiar with CSS it is based on
15:00:18 <oedipus> SP: least interesting part of this - here is syntax over there, will do it
15:00:58 <oedipus> ACTION: Steven - respond to LC2 call for Selectors API - 2008-11-30
15:00:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-20 - - respond to LC2 call for Selectors API - 2008-11-30 [on Steven Pemberton - due 2008-11-19].
15:01:19 <oedipus> SP: due to unused vacation days will be gone most of december
15:01:59 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
15:01:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:02:43 <oedipus> TOPIC: Transitions
15:02:56 <oedipus> RM: 3 resolved to go to CR: CURIE, Role and Access
15:03:08 <oedipus> SP: CURIE request sent; other 2 will be sent by end of week
15:03:12 <oedipus> SM: sent how?
15:03:21 <oedipus> SP: transmission requests
15:04:12 <oedipus> RM's summary of TPAC resolutions & related stuff: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Oct/0040.html
15:04:22 <oedipus> RM: status of XML Events 2?
15:04:51 <oedipus> SM: updated draft on 24 October 2008 - believe that addresses everything discussed at meeting - sent out post to that effect
15:05:09 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Oct/0024.html
15:05:25 <oedipus> RM: please read and review before next week
15:05:28 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xml-events2
15:05:32 <oedipus> RM: XHTML Mime
15:05:43 <oedipus> SM: appendix needs to be updated
15:06:10 <oedipus> RM: in response to comments on mime document
15:06:16 <oedipus> SM: that's my action item
15:06:29 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtmlmime
15:06:53 <oedipus> SM: example doesn't match guidelines, but we knew that and will fix
15:07:29 <oedipus> SP: never been through reissuing a note before - announced to HTC, fielded comments, and when we are done, just publish - no pub approval cycle for Note
15:07:37 <oedipus> SM: shouldn't update until example more complete
15:08:09 <oedipus> RM: odd thing is XHTML Media Types Second Edition, but doesn't say note
15:08:32 <oedipus> SP: in statement - statement also goes where "Editor's Draft" is now
15:08:51 <oedipus> SM: careful to keep editor's draft until ready to push
15:08:58 <Steven> s/statement/status/
15:09:12 <oedipus> RM: only thing outstanding is appendix?
15:09:14 <oedipus> SM: yes
15:09:48 <oedipus> SM: have an action (18) to fix appendix
15:10:13 <oedipus> SP: when republish, are we going to consider doing PER of 1.0 without appendix C
15:10:21 <oedipus> GJR: as long as we point to Mime Types 2008
15:10:50 <oedipus> SP: appendix guidelines get a lot of flack as not being part of spec and just informative
15:11:08 <oedipus> SP: olivier has problem that normative parts refer to informative appendix C
15:11:41 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/18
15:11:48 <oedipus> SP: outstanding errata for 1.0?
15:12:15 <oedipus> SM: never envisioned re-releasing 1.0
15:12:28 <oedipus> SP: no errata logged for 1.0
15:12:57 <oedipus> RM: seems strange not even any minor editorial nits
15:13:14 <oedipus> SP: already Second Edition, so this would be Third Edition
15:13:29 <oedipus> SM: include schema implementation?
15:13:32 <oedipus> SP: why not?
15:13:44 <oedipus> SM: don't know if trust current schema
15:14:03 <oedipus> SP: think it was feed as DTD through a transformer and hand-tweaked
15:14:19 <oedipus> SM: don't need to do
15:15:06 <oedipus> ACTION: Shane - prepare 1.0 PER by removing appendix C and replace with pointer / reference to XHTML Mime
15:15:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-21 - - prepare 1.0 PER by removing appendix C and replace with pointer / reference to XHTML Mime [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-11-19].
15:15:24 <oedipus> RM: should be after XHTML Mime goes to transition
15:15:42 <oedipus> SM: a lot of fruit from XHTML Mime, so need to get that pushed
15:15:52 <oedipus> RM: Mime critical path for all PERs on list
15:16:00 <oedipus> SM: yes;
15:16:34 <oedipus> SM: haven't heard anything more from melinda -- will ping her to ensure nothing else for XHTML Print
15:16:51 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/21
15:17:00 <oedipus> (will annotate after meeting)
15:17:13 <oedipus> TOPIC: Documents in Maintenance Mode
15:17:21 <oedipus> RM: errata for XML Events need to be addressed
15:17:26 <oedipus> SM: did it - done
15:17:40 <oedipus> RM: 4 PERs (excluding 1.0) - where are we with those?
15:17:56 <oedipus> RM: Basic should be issued; further dialog with Yam?
15:18:32 <oedipus> SP: there is example near end that we didn't create - in appendix says: "here is example" "here is how would look" working on updating that with Yam directly
15:18:51 <oedipus> RM: RDFa not keen to issue PER so soon after issuing spec
15:19:05 <oedipus> RM: XHTML 1.1 PER status?
15:19:09 <oedipus> SM: ready to go
15:19:18 <oedipus> SM: Print is ready to og
15:19:32 <oedipus> RM: all refer to Mime document?
15:19:47 <oedipus> SM: Print does not refer to mime doc; 1.1, Basic, RDFa do
15:20:27 <oedipus> SM: decision of RDFa TF was wait until january and then reissue and correct any errata that arise
15:20:39 <oedipus> SM: if can get example done, Basic will be ready for PER
15:21:17 <oedipus> SM: will get 1.0 PER together as well, but first priority is get example done in Mime document - try to get done by tomorrow - will alert group - review changes on list and sign off on it next call
15:21:28 <oedipus> RM: no action outstanding to do example in basic
15:22:31 <oedipus> ACTION: Steven - work with Yam on missing example for XHTML Basic - 2008-11-19
15:22:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-22 - - work with Yam on missing example for XHTML Basic - 2008-11-19 [on Steven Pemberton - due 2008-11-19].
15:23:11 <oedipus> TOPIC: Open Action Review
15:23:15 <Roland> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/open 
15:23:16 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/agenda
15:23:23 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/open
15:24:07 <oedipus> RM: action 4?
15:24:12 <oedipus> SM: checking status now
15:24:20 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/4
15:26:28 <oedipus> RM: role action on GJR
15:26:36 <oedipus> GJR: still need to pin down AlG's response
15:26:46 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/5
15:27:26 <oedipus> RM: Script Implement Attribute model (15) http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/15
15:27:33 <oedipus> SM: working on it
15:27:46 <oedipus> RM: IDREF change http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/16
15:27:50 <oedipus> SM: in process
15:29:01 <oedipus> SM: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/19 - origins?
15:29:30 <Steven> close action-19
15:29:31 <trackbot> ACTION-19 craft text to about transformation of XHTML to HTML for the XHTMLMIME draft closed
15:29:35 <oedipus> RM: processor -- moved into tracker list - discussed at phone call of 15 june; put in and ripped out during F2F so think is close
15:30:21 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/agenda
15:30:32 <oedipus> RM: lot of historical actions still in agenda not in tracker
15:30:40 <oedipus> RM: review and remove or move to tracker
15:31:01 <oedipus> ACTION: Shane to start implementing xml schema for xhtml 2.0
15:31:01 <oedipus> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/08-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]
15:31:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-23 - Start implementing xml schema for xhtml 2.0 [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-11-19].
15:31:14 <oedipus> drop action 4
15:31:30 <oedipus> rrsagent, drop action-23
15:31:30 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'drop action-23', oedipus.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:31:59 <oedipus> RM: move into tracker
15:32:19 <oedipus> new action on Shane: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/23
15:32:30 <oedipus> SP: speak to mark
15:32:34 <oedipus> RM: not sure how been changed
15:32:44 <oedipus> SP: Mark done a lot of modularization
15:32:48 <oedipus> RM: but not in spec
15:33:21 <oedipus> SP: not XHTML schema, but XForms; think Mark has one that implements ???
15:33:38 <oedipus> RM: ACTION: Shane to split 8024 into two issues.
15:33:49 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2007/12/12-xhtml-minutes.html#action04
15:34:05 <oedipus> RM: next action on steven redundant
15:34:22 <oedipus> RM: from f2f to venice: Steven to add text to embedding module saying how it works
15:34:39 <oedipus> ACTION: Steven to add text to embedding module saying how it works
15:34:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-24 - Add text to embedding module saying how it works [on Steven Pemberton - due 2008-11-19].
15:35:01 <oedipus> SM: action on 8024 done
15:35:09 <oedipus> RM: do we need 4 types of list in XHTML2
15:35:23 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2008May/0005.html
15:36:21 <oedipus> SP: everlasting discussion - where "magic" of semantics resides: element or attribute names; better to have list titled UL with nexted LIs - could say 4 different types of list (UL,OL,DL)
15:36:36 <oedipus> SM: DL only different in that has user defined label
15:36:48 <oedipus> GJR: aria terms "ownedby"
15:37:00 <oedipus> SM: why break compatibility with world?
15:37:06 <oedipus> RM: created new one with navigation list
15:37:40 <oedipus> SP: with addition of role, someone said, now we have role with value of navigation, perhaps navigation list in XHTML2 superfluous
15:37:55 <oedipus> SM: nav list already has implicit role
15:38:08 <oedipus> SP: navigation list the one on the chopping block now that we have role
15:38:26 <oedipus> SM: special behavioral semantics associated with navigation lists
15:39:06 <oedipus> SP: meant to identify certain types of lists; could represent in diff ways on diff devices; if no room for navigation bar, could do as drop down list, which would be a navigation list; circumstantial usage
15:39:18 <oedipus> SP: if base semantics on role, don't need extra syntax
15:39:59 <oedipus> SM: suggestion is get rid of navigation list in XHTML2 because role makes redundant
15:40:52 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml2-20071024/mod-list.html#edef_list_nl
15:41:11 <oedipus> proposed RESOLVED: review need for nl now that Role exists
15:41:42 <oedipus> RESOLVED: review need for nl now that Role exists and prepare for discussion at next week's meeting
15:41:49 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
15:41:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:42:06 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml2-20071024/mod-list.html#s_listmodule
15:42:30 <oedipus> RM: Access + RDFa into XHTML2 - still open?
15:42:33 <oedipus> SM: open
15:42:53 <oedipus> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-xhtml-minutes.html#action05
15:43:09 <oedipus> SM: from 31 may 2005
15:43:19 <oedipus> SM: may be moot
15:43:45 <oedipus> SM: Media Type and how source type or href type are resolved during requests for content-negotiation
15:44:41 <oedipus> SP: a double-asterisk says will accept anything - don't know how can expand asterisks
15:44:49 <oedipus> SM: doesn't make sense to me, either
15:45:22 <oedipus> RM: close 7800 and 7099 in issue tracking?
15:45:36 <oedipus> s/7099/7999
15:45:52 <oedipus> SM: can change to rejected because request should still say asterisk
15:46:31 <oedipus> RM: action on steven to devote brain cycles to solving quality values question
15:46:45 <oedipus> SP: needs more thought - clarify what asterisk means
15:46:59 <oedipus> ADJOURN
15:47:16 <oedipus> RM: XHTML2 development topic for next week
15:47:28 <Zakim> -ShaneM
15:47:37 <Tina> oedipus: * ;)
15:47:45 <Zakim> -Steven
15:47:46 <Zakim> -Roland
15:47:46 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
15:47:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:47:51 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
15:47:52 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
15:47:53 <Zakim> Attendees were Roland, ShaneM, Steven, Gregory_Rosmaita
15:48:25 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
15:48:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:48:36 <oedipus> chair: Roland_Merrick
15:48:39 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
15:48:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:52:22 <Roland> Roland has left #xhtml
15:52:42 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
15:52:42 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-actions.rdf :
15:52:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven - respond to LC2 call for Selectors API - 2008-11-30 [1]
15:52:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-irc#T15-00-58
15:52:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane - prepare 1.0 PER by removing appendix C and replace with pointer / reference to XHTML Mime [2]
15:52:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-irc#T15-15-06
15:52:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven - work with Yam on missing example for XHTML Basic - 2008-11-19 [3]
15:52:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-irc#T15-22-31
15:52:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane to start implementing xml schema for xhtml 2.0 [4]
15:52:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-irc#T15-31-01
15:52:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven to add text to embedding module saying how it works [5]
15:52:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-xhtml-irc#T15-34-39