IRC log of egov on 2008-11-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:53:51 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #egov
13:53:51 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:53:57 [josema]
zakim, this will be egov
13:53:57 [Zakim]
ok, josema; I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
13:54:21 [kjetil]
Zakim, what is the code?
13:54:21 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), kjetil
13:54:43 [kjetil]
kjetil has changed the topic to: next Group call: 12 Nov; 14:00Z || the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152)
14:00:43 [josema]
trackbot, start telcon
14:00:45 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:00:47 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be EGOV
14:00:47 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM scheduled to start now
14:00:48 [trackbot]
Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
14:00:48 [trackbot]
Date: 12 November 2008
14:00:54 [Zakim]
T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has now started
14:01:01 [Zakim]
+ +1.509.464.aaaa
14:01:07 [josema]
regrets: martin, jeff
14:01:17 [Zakim]
14:01:27 [josema]
zakim, drop josema
14:01:27 [Zakim]
Josema is being disconnected
14:01:29 [Zakim]
14:01:45 [Zakim]
14:02:07 [john]
john has joined #eGov
14:02:32 [josema]
zakim, aaaa is rachel
14:02:32 [Zakim]
+rachel; got it
14:02:59 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.731.aabb
14:03:27 [josema]
zakim, aabb is kevin
14:03:27 [Zakim]
+kevin; got it
14:03:37 [Zakim]
+ +1.301.455.aacc
14:03:48 [Zakim]
+ +0203334aadd
14:04:06 [josema]
zakim, aadd is john
14:04:06 [Zakim]
+john; got it
14:05:10 [josema]
zakim, aadd is owen
14:05:10 [Zakim]
sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
14:05:27 [josema]
zakim, aaacc is owen
14:05:27 [Zakim]
sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'aaacc'
14:05:31 [josema]
zakim, aacc is owen
14:05:31 [Zakim]
+owen; got it
14:05:36 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
14:05:36 [Zakim]
On the phone I see rachel, Josema, kevin, owen, john
14:05:38 [Zakim]
On IRC I see john, Owen, RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, darobin, kjetil, trackbot
14:06:07 [josema]
agenda+ appoint scribe
14:06:13 [josema]
agenda+ agenda adjustments
14:06:17 [josema]
agenda+ intros
14:06:23 [josema]
agenda+ review of open actions
14:06:30 [josema]
agenda+ review of topic areas
14:06:35 [josema]
agenda+ next steps
14:06:39 [josema]
agenda+ next meeting
14:06:42 [josema]
14:07:44 [Zakim]
14:07:58 [kjetil]
Zakim, ??P8 is me
14:07:58 [Zakim]
+kjetil; got it
14:08:17 [josema]
zakim, move to next agendum
14:08:17 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "appoint scribe" taken up [from josema]
14:08:25 [kjetil]
Zakim, mute me
14:08:25 [Zakim]
kjetil should now be muted
14:08:29 [josema]
scribe: josema
14:08:38 [josema]
[usual one I guess]
14:08:53 [Rinke]
Rinke has joined #egov
14:09:51 [josema]
john: thanks jose
14:09:55 [josema]
zakim, move to next agendum
14:09:55 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "agenda adjustments" taken up [from josema]
14:10:07 [kjetil]
14:10:21 [kjetil]
ack me
14:10:45 [josema]
john: recaps
14:10:46 [josema]
14:10:49 [kevin]
kevin has joined #egov
14:11:28 [josema]
kjetil: can we add current discussion on the list about use cases?
14:11:40 [Tom]
Tom has joined #egov
14:11:44 [josema]
kevin: let's do before next steps but after topic areas
14:11:45 [kjetil]
Zakim: mute me
14:11:47 [josema]
john: ok
14:11:52 [kjetil]
Zakim, mute me
14:11:52 [Zakim]
kjetil should now be muted
14:12:06 [josema]
zakim, move to next agendum
14:12:06 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "intros" taken up [from josema]
14:12:13 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
14:12:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see rachel, Josema, kevin, owen, john, kjetil (muted)
14:12:14 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Tom, kevin, Rinke, john, Owen, RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, darobin, kjetil, trackbot
14:12:25 [josema]
john: I think nobody new, right?
14:12:33 [josema]
[nothing heard]
14:12:58 [josema]
zakim, move to next agendum
14:12:58 [Zakim]
agendum 3 was just opened, josema
14:12:59 [Zakim]
14:13:05 [Tom]
zakim, Rinke is me
14:13:05 [Zakim]
+Tom; got it
14:13:15 [josema]
zakim, move to next agendum
14:13:15 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "review of open actions" taken up [from josema]
14:13:17 [josema]
14:14:11 [josema]
[agenda at]
14:14:17 [josema]
zakim, close ACTION-35
14:14:17 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'close ACTION-35', josema
14:14:26 [josema]
trackbot, close ACTION-35
14:14:26 [trackbot]
ACTION-35 Will prepare agenda and circulate to call pparticipants closed
14:14:55 [john]
14:15:22 [josema]
ACTION-3 and ACTION-12 not pressing
14:15:52 [josema]
john: on ACTION-14
14:16:11 [josema] we could present to organizations how they could present to
14:16:35 [kjetil]
q+ to say something open standards
14:16:42 [josema]
...decision makers the benefit of joining
14:16:46 [josema]
14:17:48 [john]
ack kjetil
14:17:49 [Zakim]
kjetil, you wanted to say something open standards
14:18:25 [josema]
kevin: in this time of economic crisis, we should try to find a way to engage more people, look more closely into the benefits
14:18:46 [josema]
kjetil: engage through open standards
14:19:10 [josema]
kevin: in my experience govs use the "wait and see" approach
14:19:30 [josema]
...we need to convince them to participate in what we are doing
14:19:52 [josema]
john: for a government department Membership fee is expensive ??
14:20:02 [kjetil]
Zakim, mute me
14:20:02 [Zakim]
kjetil should now be muted
14:20:25 [josema]
...need to "sell" the way we work and the level of conversations we have
14:20:45 [josema]
s/expensive ??/not expensive
14:21:04 [josema]
...compared to other expenditures, the ROI is very good
14:21:33 [josema]
...coming back to the action, I'll post something to the Group on how we did it
14:21:55 [josema] we achieved it, how we showed this is pretty low cost
14:24:10 [josema]
josema: what about ACTION-30?
14:24:14 [kjetil]
14:24:53 [josema]
john: draft position paper to tell the workshop we are finding some issues
14:25:02 [josema]
...on governments using social media
14:25:36 [josema]
-> W3C Workshop on the Future of Social Networking
14:25:36 [josema]
Call for Participation
14:26:11 [josema]
[deadline for position papers seems to be 20 Nov]
14:26:31 [josema]
...any additional input?
14:27:03 [josema]
kevin: discussion last week, especially with Ari about this, related to TF2
14:27:20 [josema]
rachel: I have a couple things I could contribute
14:27:38 [josema]
...on social media providers building apps for gov ??
14:27:54 [josema]
kevin: are you in touch with Michelle Springer (LoC)?
14:27:57 [josema]
rachel: yes
14:28:12 [josema]
...couple agencies negotiating individually
14:28:30 [josema]
...but we are working on some generic framework/agreement for agencies
14:28:31 [john]
14:28:48 [josema] practices that we could replicate trough providers
14:28:58 [josema]
...working on example agreement we could share
14:29:18 [josema]
john: my responsibility is to manage Crown copyright
14:29:32 [josema]
...some videos posted to YouTube, need to look into that
14:29:48 [josema] it's possible to do that
14:30:06 [josema] Justice doing this and building Wordpress-based Web site
14:30:22 [josema]
...integrating this plus images they archive on Flickr, etc.
14:30:36 [josema]
...audience is journalists
14:30:48 [josema]
s/audience/target audience
14:31:13 [josema]
...also National Archives encouraging people to post to Flickr
14:31:25 [josema] paper documents
14:31:39 [josema]
...some copyright issues to be solved, but once done, powerful stuff
14:31:46 [josema]
...we've just started last week
14:32:08 [josema]
kevin: reference point, LoC, you all probably remember Commons
14:32:12 [john]
14:32:25 [josema]
...project with Flickr, tremendous partcipation
14:32:42 [josema]
14:32:50 [josema]
john: we actually use LoC example
14:33:12 [josema]
...much easier to show when someone already started
14:33:37 [josema]
...understood as not so risky
14:33:54 [josema]
john: I'll post something a bit later wrt the paper
14:34:06 [josema]
...please rachel do same if possible within the next 24 hours
14:34:26 [josema]
...I take responsibility of putting it together, a draft we can submit
14:34:45 [josema]
14:35:19 [Owen]
Owen has joined #egov
14:35:46 [josema]
agenda+ structure/submission of use cases
14:35:48 [josema]
14:35:56 [john]
14:36:14 [josema]
zakim, take up agendum 8
14:36:14 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "structure/submission of use cases" taken up [from josema]
14:36:23 [kjetil]
Zakim, unmute me
14:36:23 [Zakim]
kjetil should no longer be muted
14:36:43 [josema]
kjetil: discussion on how to submit use cases
14:37:05 [josema]
...started with me submitting one on "Semantic My Page"
14:37:44 [josema]
-> Use Case:"Semantic My Page"
14:38:18 [kjetil]
darobin, are you on the call?
14:38:22 [john]
14:38:24 [Zakim]
14:38:39 [Zakim]
14:39:21 [josema]
...jose mentioned SWEO, also POWDER and EXI prior experience, which is different from SWEO
14:39:43 [josema]'s important for the Group to work around use cases that people will commit to write
14:39:57 [josema]
...not just those that look appealing to some
14:40:19 [john]
14:40:35 [josema]
s/SWEO, /SWEO, me
14:40:57 [josema]
john: developing use cases in topic areas is what I believe we should be doing
14:41:14 [josema]
...if I understand you right, you propose to add an extra step to filter them?
14:41:43 [josema]
kjetil: how narrow are the topic areas? how people in the Group feel about them?
14:42:16 [josema]
john: I think it gives a pretty clear idea of where we are heading to
14:42:37 [josema]
...conclusion at the F2F was that use cases should exemplify those to capture
14:42:43 [josema]
...government requirements
14:42:58 [josema]
...they are fairly broad, maybe quite government centric
14:43:13 [josema]
kjetil: should they be even more use case driven?
14:43:27 [john]
14:43:43 [josema]
...should we try to go beyond that and think how governments should work in the future?
14:44:02 [josema]
john: do you mean what might be possible in five years time?
14:44:23 [josema]
...or what we should improve from now in the next five years?
14:44:29 [josema]
kjetil: good observation
14:45:16 [josema]
...I think that being use case driven we should be able to narrow the scope more
14:45:39 [josema]
...could help us in deciding what kind of focus we want
14:46:05 [josema]
john: for me right now, it's clear that we need to document the topic areas
14:46:16 [john]
14:46:19 [josema]
...we already have, that would mean we have captured *something*
14:46:25 [josema]
kevin: +1
14:46:41 [josema]
...we need to focus on the ones we have, build use cases and then proceed forward
14:47:00 [kjetil]
Zakim, who is noisy?
14:47:10 [Zakim]
kjetil, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: kevin (4%), kjetil (50%)
14:47:30 [josema]
kjetil: can people agree on the progress?
14:47:39 [josema]
...on the model for use case collection?
14:48:00 [josema]
...a distillation of things we can build consensus around and not verbatim copy of the use cases?
14:48:11 [john]
14:48:35 [josema]
john: we have to do more that just capture them, I agree with that
14:49:04 [john]
ack darobin
14:50:49 [josema]
kjetil: we need to make sure that we don't get out of scope
14:50:51 [john]
14:51:01 [josema]
...avoid things on the use cases that nobody will work on ??
14:51:06 [josema]
john: +1
14:51:09 [josema]
kevin: +1
14:51:30 [john]
ack kevin
14:52:04 [josema]
john: I think is important for business interest from my organization to identify some of the things
14:52:10 [Zakim]
14:52:11 [josema]
...we have been talking about
14:52:17 [josema]
[rachel leaves call]
14:52:43 [kjetil]
Zakim, mute me
14:52:43 [Zakim]
kjetil should now be muted
14:52:54 [josema]
kjetil: we are in brainstorming mode for now, we should try not to prevent people to brainstorm yet ???
14:52:56 [josema]
14:53:04 [josema]
zakim, take up agendum 5
14:53:04 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "review of topic areas" taken up [from josema]
14:53:47 [josema]
john: we structured these in terms of TF work
14:53:53 [josema]
[ 5.1 Taskforce 1
14:53:54 [josema]
Semantic Interoperability
14:53:54 [josema]
Persistent URIs
14:53:54 [josema]
Identification + Authentication
14:53:54 [josema]
Digital Preservation + Authenticity
14:53:55 [josema]
Temporal Data]
14:54:04 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
14:54:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Josema, kevin, owen, john, kjetil (muted), Tom
14:54:05 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Owen, Tom, kevin, Rinke, john, RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, darobin, kjetil, trackbot
14:54:08 [kjetil]
s/ to brainstorm yet ???/ from brainstorming, but we need to chop down to limit the scope for the Note/
14:54:37 [josema]
john: I'd like to hear opinions from those on the call about the structure
14:55:30 [josema]
...if you believe all of the above fit in TF1 or not
14:57:07 [josema]
I've added "13.Multi channel delivery" to , still not sure about the opinion of the Chairs/Group if that was really missing
14:58:04 [john]
14:58:10 [kjetil]
14:58:15 [josema]
14:58:18 [john]
ack kjetil
14:58:36 [josema]
kjetil: I think it looks good but don't think it should be set in stone
14:58:44 [josema]
...until we produce the note
14:59:03 [josema]
john: you mean we should allow topic areas to flow between TFs?
14:59:20 [josema]
kjetil: yes, once published the use cases note it should be fairly strict
15:00:00 [kjetil]
Zakim, mute me
15:00:00 [Zakim]
kjetil should now be muted
15:01:31 [josema]
josema: two questions: is 13 really missing or not? and has TF coordinators agreed on the distribution of use cases, namely, do they have resources to commit?
15:01:49 [kevin]
15:01:54 [josema]
15:02:05 [kevin]
they each mentioned that they have the resources
15:03:07 [josema]
great news :)
15:03:11 [josema]
15:03:47 [josema]
john: I don't recall us talking about this at the Chairs meeting
15:03:51 [josema]
kevin: me neither
15:03:54 [josema]
15:04:01 [josema]
I can take it!
15:04:03 [josema]
15:05:38 [josema]
john: we may deal with 13 as well as 4 and 6 ?
15:06:10 [josema]
...postponing them for now
15:06:22 [Zakim]
15:06:40 [josema]
...unless someone could take any and move them forward at any point in time
15:06:53 [josema]
[rinke, tom leave call]
15:07:38 [josema]
kevin: we could send a message to the list and see if someone is interested in going forward ??
15:07:41 [josema]
john_ good idea
15:07:48 [josema]
15:08:36 [josema]
ACTION john to post and ask around about 4, 6, 13
15:08:36 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - john
15:08:36 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jwonderl, jsherida)
15:08:43 [josema]
ACTION jsherida to post and ask around about 4, 6, 13
15:08:43 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-36 - Post and ask around about 4, 6, 13 [on John Sheridan - due 2008-11-19].
15:09:34 [josema]
john: let's review the topic areas aligned with TF2
15:09:40 [josema]
[ Performance Data + Citizen Choice
15:09:41 [josema]
What Data? How does the government decide?
15:09:41 [josema]
Participation in Social Media; what are the rules ?]
15:10:13 [josema]
john: any comment about those three or their relation to TF2?
15:10:30 [josema]
[none heard]
15:10:49 [josema]
john: an observation on the issue of performance data
15:11:13 [josema]
...a colleague of mine asked recently people if they use decision support tools
15:11:32 [josema] tripadvisor to plan a holiday: majority said "yes"
15:11:51 [josema]
...same question on using public services, nobody said "yes"
15:12:19 [john]
15:12:25 [josema]
...of course, to be able to do that, eg. "holidays were good", "restaurant was good" you need some performance data
15:12:48 [josema]
john: moving to TF3
15:13:06 [josema]
[Data Aggregation
15:13:06 [josema]
Your Web Site is your API]
15:13:37 [josema]
john: I know that "Your Web Site is your API" is something that Oscar is keen on taking on
15:14:06 [josema]
kevin: there was a discussion on the Chairs call with the connection between TF3 and TF1
15:14:26 [josema]
...on some of this, they agreed on talking to each other, find out where's the overlap
15:14:29 [josema]
...then proceed
15:14:32 [john]
15:15:23 [josema]
15:15:34 [josema]
zakim, close agendum 4
15:15:34 [Zakim]
agendum 4, review of open actions, closed
15:15:35 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:15:36 [Zakim]
5. review of topic areas [from josema]
15:15:48 [josema]
zakim, close agendum 5
15:15:48 [Zakim]
agendum 5, review of topic areas, closed
15:15:49 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:15:50 [josema]
zakim, close agendum 8
15:15:50 [Zakim]
6. next steps [from josema]
15:15:51 [Zakim]
agendum 8, structure/submission of use cases, closed
15:15:52 [josema]
15:15:52 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:15:53 [Zakim]
6. next steps [from josema]
15:17:03 [josema]
john: next steps, we encouraged the TF coordinators to go ahead, take some actions *soon*
15:17:21 [josema]
kevin: agree, if not we'll be distracted because of the holidays
15:17:40 [josema]
john: hopefully, we'll have some work to review on the next Group call
15:18:00 [josema] next step is get done existing actions
15:18:40 [josema]
kevin: I'll talk to TF coordinators to have this going
15:19:00 [josema]
john: so you'll check if something done by them during the last week
15:19:26 [josema]
...and then back to existing actions
15:19:28 [josema]
15:20:23 [josema]
kevin: will also talk to tanya, randeep wrt spring workshop ???
15:20:46 [josema]
john: not much more to say, just energize the Group, please go ahead
15:20:53 [josema]
kevin: +1
15:20:58 [josema]
move to next agendum
15:20:58 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "next steps" taken up [from josema]
15:21:03 [josema]
move to next agendum
15:21:03 [Zakim]
agendum 6 was just opened, josema
15:21:10 [josema]
zakim, close agendum 6
15:21:10 [Zakim]
agendum 6, next steps, closed
15:21:11 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:21:12 [Zakim]
7. next meeting [from josema]
15:21:13 [josema]
move to next agendum
15:21:13 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "next meeting" taken up [from josema]
15:21:35 [josema]
john: next meeting: 26 Nov, 12:00Z
15:22:06 [josema]
kevin: it's thanksgiving week in the US, people in the government usually drop off completely that week
15:23:09 [josema]
...we can leave the date as is and query the Group later to see
15:23:11 [josema]
john: +1
15:23:19 [josema] let's stick to the 26th
15:25:16 [josema]
...I expect similar agenda structure
15:25:28 [josema]
...anything else before we adjounr?
15:25:38 [josema]
15:26:02 [josema]
15:26:03 [Zakim]
15:26:06 [Zakim]
15:26:08 [Zakim]
15:26:24 [Zakim]
15:26:25 [kevin]
thank you all
15:26:35 [josema]
rrsagent, draf minutes
15:26:35 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'draf minutes', josema. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:26:38 [josema]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:26:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate josema
15:26:46 [josema]
zakim, list attendants
15:26:46 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'list attendants', josema
15:26:52 [josema]
rrsagent, list attendants
15:26:52 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'list attendants', josema. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:27:25 [josema]
list attendees
15:27:31 [josema]
zakim, list attendees
15:27:31 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +1.509.464.aaaa, Josema, rachel, +1.202.731.aabb, kevin, +1.301.455.aacc, +0203334aadd, john, owen, kjetil, Tom
15:29:27 [josema]
present: kevin. john, rachel, owen, kjetil, jose, tom, rinke
15:29:34 [josema]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:29:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate josema
15:30:03 [josema]
chair: john, kevin
15:30:07 [josema]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:30:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate josema
15:30:13 [Zakim]
15:30:14 [Zakim]
T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended
15:30:16 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.509.464.aaaa, Josema, rachel, +1.202.731.aabb, kevin, +1.301.455.aacc, +0203334aadd, john, owen, kjetil, Tom
15:49:20 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #egov
16:18:08 [josema]
rrsagent, bye
16:18:08 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items