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20:47:02 <fsasaki> meeting: media annotations WG
20:47:05 <fsasaki> chair: Felix
20:47:32 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0048.html
20:47:48 <fsasaki> regrets: Daniel, Raphael, Thierry, Erik, Davy
20:50:32 <wbailer> wbailer has joined #mediaann
20:53:44 <pchampin> I'm affraid I won't be able to be on the phone, only IRC
20:54:52 <fsasaki> present: dave, felix, joakim, pierre, ruben, werner
20:55:15 <wonsuk> wonsuk has joined #mediaann
20:55:24 <fsasaki> present+ wonsuk
20:55:35 <tobiasbuerger> tobiasbuerger has joined #mediaann
20:55:42 <fsasaki> present+ tobias
20:56:52 <Zakim> IA_MAWG()4:00PM has now started
20:56:59 <Zakim> +AndreaP
20:58:03 <Zakim> +??P1
20:58:14 <tobiasbuerger> Zakim, P1 is me
20:58:14 <Zakim> sorry, tobiasbuerger, I do not recognize a party named 'P1'
20:58:26 <Zakim> +Felix
20:58:29 <Zakim> +??P2
20:59:04 <tobiasbuerger> Zakim, ??P1
20:59:04 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P1', tobiasbuerger
20:59:06 <Zakim> +jcraig
20:59:13 <dsinger> zakim, jcraig is dsinger
20:59:13 <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
20:59:38 <pchampin> sorry for my newbieness, but can zakim call me?
20:59:53 <Zakim> + +43.316.876.aaaa
21:00:16 <wbailer> zakim, aaaa is me
21:00:16 <Zakim> +wbailer; got it
21:02:31 <fsasaki> scribe: werner
21:02:35 <fsasaki> scribeNick: wbailer
21:02:43 <Zakim> +??P5
21:03:18 <js> ??P7
21:03:27 <js> ??p7
21:03:47 <js> zakim, ??p7
21:03:47 <Zakim> I don't understand '??p7', js
21:03:59 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0048.html
21:04:16 <fsasaki> topic: Agenda review / approval of previous minutes
21:04:24 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-mediaann-minutes.html
21:04:29 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-mediaann-minutes.html
21:04:33 <js> ??P2 is joakim
21:05:11 <wbailer> minutes approved
21:05:21 <fsasaki> topic: Selection of scribe for next meeting.
21:05:28 <wbailer> joakim 
21:05:34 <fsasaki> topic: Future telephone conferences and f2f meetings / call time
21:06:46 <fsasaki> see admin page
21:06:51 <fsasaki> topic: Action items
21:07:02 <dsinger> by the way, Eric Carlson is also here on the same line and IRC with me
21:07:21 <fsasaki> present+ ericCarlson
21:07:49 <cgi-irc> cgi-irc has joined #mediaann
21:08:10 <wbailer> introduction eric carlson (Apple)
21:08:19 <frank> frank has joined #mediaann
21:08:53 <fsasaki> close ACTION-20
21:08:53 <trackbot> ACTION-20 Add a link from WG page to the "still alive" MMSEM wiki pages and to make sure that everybody can edit the pages closed
21:09:10 <wbailer> action-20 done
21:09:10 <frank> hello everybody, Veronique and I call in now (we share a phone)
21:09:34 <fsasaki> close ACTION-21
21:09:34 <trackbot> ACTION-21 Create a liaison to Geolocation WG closed
21:10:01 <fsasaki> ACTION-22 Go back to Karen and check about " IPTV metadata specification" - what is it, is it available for us? - pending
21:10:30 <fsasaki> close ACTION-23 
21:10:30 <trackbot> ACTION-23 Explain XMLSPEC to wonsuk closed
21:10:42 <Zakim> + +31.20.612.aabb
21:11:17 <fsasaki> close ACTION-24
21:11:17 <trackbot> ACTION-24 Get CVS accounts for veronique and wonsuk closed
21:11:40 <fsasaki> close ACTION-25
21:11:40 <trackbot> ACTION-25 Review XMP basic schema closed
21:11:58 <fsasaki> close ACTION-26
21:11:58 <trackbot> ACTION-26 Review XMP Dublin Core schema closed
21:12:07 <fsasaki> close ACTION-27
21:12:07 <trackbot> ACTION-27 Review XMP Rights Management schema closed
21:12:17 <fsasaki> close ACTION-28
21:12:17 <trackbot> ACTION-28 Review XMP Media Management schema closed
21:12:24 <fsasaki> close ACTION-29
21:12:24 <trackbot> ACTION-29 Tell Wonsuk to review XMP Basic Job Ticket schema and Paged-Text schema closed
21:12:37 <fsasaki> close ACTION-30
21:12:37 <trackbot> ACTION-30 Review XMP Dynamic Media schema closed
21:12:49 <fsasaki> close ACTION-31
21:12:49 <trackbot> ACTION-31 Contact tom baker about dc liaison closed
21:13:14 <fsasaki> action-32 Make a liaison with MPEG using information from the XP homepage - pending
21:13:30 <fsasaki> action-33 Evaluate if contact to IPTV Japan is valuable - pending
21:13:47 <fsasaki> action-34 Contact Open IPTV forum - pending
21:14:03 <fsasaki> close ACTION-35
21:14:03 <trackbot> ACTION-35 Check contacts to OMA closed
21:15:01 <fsasaki> action: Felix to make a liaison with OMA
21:15:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-36 - Make a liaison with OMA [on Felix Sasaki - due 2008-11-18].
21:15:37 <fsasaki> topic:  New use case "Digital imaging lifecycle"
21:15:44 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0078.html
21:15:52 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0000.html
21:16:45 <wbailer> ruben: jpeg in process of defining metadata for digital image lifecycle
21:17:01 <wbailer> ... specific type of search/retrieval uc
21:18:31 <wbailer> felix: keep use case and discuss in future call
21:18:39 <fsasaki> or via mail
21:18:57 <fsasaki> topic: New use case "life log"
21:19:09 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0073.html
21:20:57 <cgi-irc> maybe it can be an interesting use case for checking how the interoperability across media can be achieved
21:21:24 <fsasaki> veronique = cgi-irc
21:21:30 <pchampin> +1 veronique
21:22:07 <wbailer> veronique: consider in second stage of ontology dvelopment
21:22:38 <fsasaki> topic:  XMP review
21:22:44 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP
21:23:55 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#Dublin_Core_schema
21:24:21 <wbailer> thierry: dublin core: everything could be adopted
21:25:49 <wbailer> felix: some fields (eg data) quite general, might conflict with fields from other standards
21:26:29 <wbailer> +1, I think for most dc fields we need to specify how we use them
21:27:04 <wbailer> ruben: granularity of fields (eg name, more structured eg in mpeg-7)
21:27:56 <wbailer> david: string is general, everything else might cause eg internationalisation problems
21:29:10 <dsinger> it may be solved, but it can be a tarpit
21:29:28 <wbailer> goal is to keep simple
21:29:43 <wbailer> veronique: pointing to vocbulary (eg artist names)
21:29:54 <pchampin> wouldn't that be interesting, nevertheless, to allow the URI of another resource (possibly defined elswhere), insread of a plain string?
21:30:30 <wbailer> felix: need to decide whether internationalistation of names is an issue or we just map to simple strings
21:30:45 <fsasaki> topic: XMP Basic schema 
21:30:45 <dsinger> it's intriguing to think that anything can be a value or a URI
21:30:57 <dsinger> but what happens if I say "my name is" "URI to jpeg image"
21:31:00 <dsinger> ?
21:31:30 <pchampin> I was rather suggesting "the creator is (string|URI)"
21:31:44 <wbailer> david: uri issues brings us back to foaf
21:32:20 <pchampin> I'm not suggesting that we should embed the descrition of that URI...
21:32:23 <dsinger> friend of a friend?
21:33:50 <wbailer> http://www.foaf-project.org/
21:33:51 <dsinger> you mean? <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/>
21:34:22 <frank> A string is not less ambigious than a URI  (I could write name = sjdhfqflf
21:34:59 <pchampin> I would say a string is *much more* ambiguous
21:35:06 <wbailer> joakim: foaf is used in imdb
21:35:25 <pchampin> But we can not assume every person to have a URI with appropriate FOAF properties
21:35:31 <dsinger> in terms of presentation, it's very clear;  a URI ("gopher:" ?) is much less obviously presentable
21:35:33 <js> foaf is used by linked movie database
21:37:08 <wbailer> felix: string may be meaningful or not, additional uri (need to ensure that uri points to suitable resource)
21:37:16 <rtous> also a problem with "address" field
21:37:41 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Basic_schema
21:38:13 <wbailer> felix: going through elements 
21:39:40 <wbailer> topic: XMP Rights Management schema
21:39:41 <fsasaki> topic: XMP Rights Management schema
21:39:43 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Rights_Management_schema
21:41:28 <wbailer> dave: even simple copyright can become complex (eg composition of media)
21:41:51 <wbailer> ... simple copyright cannot be ignored
21:42:23 <wbailer> felix: does that require to include properties into ontology
21:42:49 <wbailer> dave: simple copyright, global to media
21:43:21 <frank> I thought we had decided in the last f2f meeting that we simply go for one slot
21:43:38 <wbailer> joakim: dynamic temporal metadata support (for real time apps)
21:43:59 <dsinger> I am tempted to say that ALL metadata is temporal, but the first version only allows you to ask "right now" what is...?
21:44:19 <dsinger> which covers a radio station where it varies by song...
21:44:26 <wbailer> topic: XMP Media Management schema
21:44:28 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Media_Management_schema
21:46:15 <wbailer> veronique: 3 levels: content - realisation -instance
21:46:35 <wbailer> ... still to be decided whether 3 or 1 level
21:47:25 <dsinger> yes, use cases are essential: we'll never decide what we want if we don't know what we want it to be useful for
21:47:37 <rtous> Functional Requirements for Bibliographic Records (FRBR) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FRBR
21:47:44 <wbailer> ruben: different levels could simplify things (e.g. content description such as title vs tech metadata like encoding)
21:48:07 <wbailer> +1 ruben
21:48:23 <cgi-irc> we can also check out how many models go for 3 levels and how many go for 1 
21:48:57 <cgi-irc> VRA has also 3 levels
21:49:08 <js> mpeg-7 has two
21:49:18 <pchampin> I'm still not sure there should be a *constant* level of models...
21:49:25 <cgi-irc> two is good enough
21:49:31 <dsinger> what are the 3 levels? (sorry...)
21:49:41 <wbailer> content - realisation -instance
21:49:48 <dsinger> thx
21:50:06 <pchampin> what about the photo of a painting?
21:50:13 <wbailer> felix: volunteers for looking at how standards handle this issue?
21:50:18 <pchampin> or a movie making of?
21:50:22 <rtous> I can do that
21:50:51 <wbailer> action: ruben to survey how other standards handle the issue of levels of description
21:50:51 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - ruben
21:51:05 <wbailer>  action: rtous to survey how other standards handle the issue of levels of description
21:51:06 <dsinger> well, basically "content: beethoiven's 5th;  realisation: berlin phil, 1962; instance: cassette tape from DG 1964"???
21:52:05 <tobiasbuerger> who do these three levels relate to the levels defined in FRBR (work-expression-manifestion-item)? content:==work, expression==realisation, manifestation==instance; item is not existing?)
21:52:18 <wbailer> topic: XMP Basic Job Ticket schema
21:53:08 <js> you can also look at the music ontology who has adopted the idea
21:53:27 <tobiasbuerger> yes, the music ontology adapted FRBR I guess
21:53:53 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Basic_Job_Ticket_schemaa 
21:54:26 <wbailer> topic: XMP Paged-text schema
21:54:38 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Paged-text_schema
21:55:26 <tobiasbuerger> I guess we do not need it in our current use cases
21:55:32 <wbailer> topic: XMP Dynamic Media schema
21:55:34 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Dynamic_Media_schema
21:55:38 <tobiasbuerger> (I meant the basic job ticket information)
21:56:23 <wbailer> joakim: many detailed technical aspects included
21:57:00 <fsasaki> xmpDM:logComment User’s log comments.
21:57:19 <wbailer> veronique: does this refer to tagging?
21:57:37 <wbailer> felix: little information in xmp spec
21:58:18 <wbailer> veronique: slot for tags needed - could this field by used?
21:59:34 <wbailer> all to look at xmp reviews, discussion continues next week
22:00:06 <wbailer> topic: Draft for Use cases and requirements document  
22:00:50 <wbailer> veronique: more ideas/comments about general structure should be sent to list
22:01:31 <fsasaki> action: Felix to write a mail about the general structure of the use cases / req document
22:01:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-37 - Write a mail about the general structure of the use cases / req document [on Felix Sasaki - due 2008-11-18].
22:02:08 <wbailer> topic: API/Ontology draft proposal
22:02:16 <wbailer> all to review and comment
22:03:29 <wbailer> felix: formal definition of ontology, complexity of api, etc
22:03:56 <dsinger> thx, bye!
22:04:01 <Zakim> -dsinger
22:04:03 <Zakim> -joakim
22:04:03 <tobiasbuerger> bye
22:04:06 <rtous> bye
22:04:06 <Zakim> -wbailer
22:04:07 <Zakim> -Felix
22:04:09 <Zakim> -Frank
22:04:13 <Zakim> -wonsuk
22:04:13 <wonsuk> wonsuk has left #mediaann
22:04:15 <js> bye
22:04:25 <frank> bye
22:04:26 <Zakim> -ruben
22:04:33 <Zakim> -tobias
22:04:35 <Zakim> IA_MAWG()4:00PM has ended
22:04:36 <Zakim> Attendees were Felix, dsinger, +43.316.876.aaaa, tobias, wbailer, joakim, wonsuk, ruben, +31.20.612.aabb, veronique
22:04:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
22:05:44 <pchampin> pchampin has left #mediaann
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