IRC log of bpwg on 2008-11-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:48:33 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #bpwg

14:48:33 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-bpwg-irc

14:48:35 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

14:48:35 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #bpwg

14:48:37 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be BPWG

14:48:37 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes

14:48:38 [trackbot]

Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference

14:48:38 [trackbot]

Date: 06 November 2008

14:48:47 [dom]

Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/4912B896.6010800@mtld.mobi

14:48:49 [dom]

Chair: jo

14:54:17 [jeffs]

jeffs has joined #bpwg

14:54:42 [cgi-irc]

cgi-irc has joined #bpwg

14:55:24 [Zakim]

MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has now started

14:55:29 [Zakim]

+??P0

14:56:07 [francois]

Regrets: DavidStorey, Miguel, Manrique, Sangwhan, rob

14:56:14 [jo]

zakim, code?

14:56:14 [Zakim]

the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo

14:56:44 [yeliz]

yeliz has joined #bpwg

14:56:49 [Zakim]

+jo

14:57:04 [cgi-irc]

zakim, cgi-irc is me

14:57:04 [Zakim]

sorry, cgi-irc, I do not recognize a party named 'cgi-irc'

14:58:55 [JonathanJ]

JonathanJ has joined #bpwg

14:58:57 [Zakim]

+Francois

14:59:27 [francois]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:59:28 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P0, jo, Francois

14:59:47 [francois]

zakim, ??P0 is jeffs

14:59:47 [Zakim]

+jeffs; got it

15:00:41 [Zakim]

+ +0207881aaaa

15:00:47 [Adam]

zakim, aaaa is me

15:00:47 [Zakim]

+Adam; got it

15:01:27 [Zakim]

+??P21

15:01:33 [dom]

zakim, ??P21 is me

15:01:33 [Zakim]

+dom; got it

15:01:40 [dom]

zakim, mute me

15:01:41 [Zakim]

dom should now be muted

15:02:41 [Zakim]

+??P31

15:02:51 [yeliz]

zakim, ??P31 is yeliz

15:02:51 [Zakim]

+yeliz; got it

15:04:41 [francois]

Scribe: francois

15:04:45 [francois]

Scribe: adam

15:04:45 [yeliz]

zakim, mute yeliz

15:04:45 [Zakim]

yeliz should now be muted

15:04:49 [dom]

ScribeNick: Adam

15:05:06 [abel]

abel has joined #bpwg

15:05:18 [Adam]

Topic: Review F2F

15:06:05 [Adam]

Jo: First day on CT, broke back of LC comments. Jo is still integrating comments.

15:06:05 [Zakim]

+Martin

15:06:20 [Adam]

... day 2 decided there would be no machine readable MobileOK...

15:06:25 [nacho]

nacho has joined #bpwg

15:06:30 [abel]

zakim, Martin is me

15:06:31 [Zakim]

+abel; got it

15:06:31 [Adam]

... heard to Korean MobileOK.

15:06:39 [abel]

zakim, nacho is with me

15:06:39 [Zakim]

+nacho; got it

15:07:19 [Adam]

... discussed MWABP + various reports on Power / DDR / and mobile Web for Social Development.

15:07:27 [Adam]

s/Power/Powder

15:07:37 [Adam]

Topic: Seoul F2F

15:07:58 [Adam]

Jo: 11 responses so far, need some more responses.

15:08:08 [francois]

-> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/37584/BPWG-F2F-Seoul-2009/ Questionnaire on next F2F in Seoul

15:08:12 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/37584/BPWG-F2F-Seoul-2009/results Responses to survey on going to Seoul for next F2F

15:08:13 [francois]

q+

15:08:15 [Adam]

... open for another week or so.

15:08:23 [SeanP]

SeanP has joined #bpwg

15:08:38 [jo]

ack f

15:08:56 [Adam]

francois: can Adam come in fact (indicated he might not be able to).

15:09:38 [Adam]

Adam: I will try my very best. Probably will make it.

15:09:54 [dom]

probably worth sending a reminder?

15:10:35 [Zakim]

+SeanP

15:10:42 [Adam]

Jo: Can everyone please answer the questionnaire. Francois will send a reminder.

15:10:56 [Adam]

Topic: MobileOK Basic Tests

15:11:16 [Adam]

Jo: Mobile okay has gone to PR !

15:11:22 [francois]

-> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/PR-mobileOK-basic10-tests-20081103/ Proposed Rec of mobileOK Basic Tests

15:11:49 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/mobileOK-basic10-tests/ AC Review form for mobileOK Basic

15:12:02 [Adam]

francois: To get to Rec we call to AC representatives, final date for comments is 1st Dec.

15:12:06 [dom]

Please ask your AC Rep to send a review

15:12:21 [Adam]

... depending on support we receive we can then hopefully move forward to Recommendation.

15:12:45 [Adam]

... encourage us to pass news to AC Rep or fill our the form is you are the AC Rep for your organization.

15:12:47 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/mobileOK-basic10-tests/ AC Review form for mobileOK Basic

15:12:49 [dom]

q+ to mention member testimonials, press release

15:12:55 [dom]

ack me

15:12:56 [Zakim]

dom, you wanted to mention member testimonials, press release

15:13:29 [Adam]

dom: We are also going to have a press release and publish member testimonials.

15:13:49 [dom]

zakim, mute me

15:13:49 [Zakim]

dom should now be muted

15:13:51 [Adam]

dom: If you want to have your organization associated with the press release you should start working on getting a testimonial together.

15:14:27 [Adam]

Topic: Update on Accessibility

15:14:32 [yeliz]

zakim, unmute yeliz

15:14:32 [Zakim]

yeliz should no longer be muted

15:15:39 [Adam]

Yeliz: Not much change right now.

15:16:34 [Adam]

francois: Yeliz's document will be published as final work. Alan's published as updated working draft. At which point we will review.

15:17:07 [Adam]

francois: Will then move to publish document as a Working Group Note.

15:17:25 [dom]

ack me

15:17:45 [Adam]

Topic: BP1.5

15:17:48 [dom]

ACTION-872?

15:17:49 [trackbot]

ACTION-872 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to work on reformulating 4 "tests" of BP 1.5 -- due 2008-10-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW

15:17:49 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/872

15:17:50 [nacho_marin]

nacho_marin has joined #bpwg

15:17:54 [Kai]

Kai has joined #bpwg

15:17:56 [Adam]

Jo: Kai is not here. Dom has done his action, action on everyone esle to respond.

15:18:02 [Adam]

Topic: MobileOK Scheme

15:18:04 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/mid/1224600332.7211.66.camel%2540altocumulustier Dom's proposed rewrite for BP 1.5

15:18:11 [Adam]

Jo: I have published the draft but not updated the link...

15:18:41 [Adam]

... Hopefully we'll have the licence etc done before MobileOK goes to rec.

15:19:24 [dom]

zakim, mute me

15:19:27 [Adam]

Topic: CT

15:19:27 [Zakim]

dom should now be muted

15:19:39 [Zakim]

+ +0496151680aabb

15:19:58 [dom]

zakim, aabb is kai

15:19:58 [Zakim]

+kai; got it

15:20:07 [Adam]

francois: Reviewed last call comments and Jo is updating draft.

15:20:11 [Adam]

Topic: BP1.5

15:21:03 [Adam]

Kai: Thankyou to Dom for reworking the document. Believe this is pretty tight. Request to the group for feedback so Kai can continue with that formwat.

15:21:07 [Adam]

s/formwat/format

15:21:09 [nacho]

nacho has joined #bpwg

15:21:21 [Adam]

Topic: BP2

15:21:42 [Adam]

Adam: Have folding in comments from the F2F and will share early next week.

15:22:22 [Adam]

Topic: AOB

15:22:44 [Adam]

Jo: Action-875 should have been on the agenda. Jeff to comment on ...

15:22:52 [jo]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2008Oct/0031.html Jeff's comments on ETSI doc

15:22:58 [Adam]

the ETSI document.

15:23:45 [Adam]

jeffs: Guidelines for generic UI elements for 3G terminals... Have sent a review email to the list.

15:24:46 [Adam]

... there are some areas where we could do work on our stuff in response, but want to get some feedback from the group before digging much deeper.

15:25:53 [Adam]

jeffs: Main document is "pretty big"... Overview document (the one under review) is only a few pages long.

15:26:01 [jeffs]

ETSI DEG 202 972 V 0.30 (2008-06-02)

15:26:10 [brucel]

brucel has joined #bpwg

15:26:59 [jeffs]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fportal.etsi.org%2Fstfs%2FSTF_HomePages%2FSTF322%2FDEG%2520202%2520972%2520v30_June2_2008_HF46.doc&ei=pQwTSdqPCoyk8ASV-LjQBg&usg=AFQjCNEoGEIc_8b9ANk0H7Xuc-AhpFEFVw&sig2=fsTF_NsshzXwpze1Rt7viA

15:28:15 [brucel]

apologies to all for being late; absorbed in a project and just noticed time

15:28:17 [Adam]

Jo: Main document is 44 pages... Two things we could do: 1) Provide feedback. 2) Use material to reinforce documents.

15:28:25 [nacho_marin]

nacho_marin has joined #bpwg

15:28:43 [Adam]

jo: We should restrict feedback to "we are concerned with point XXX" but don't want to get in the position of contributing text.

15:28:49 [Adam]

jeffs: Agreed.

15:29:26 [Adam]

jo: In terms of what we use ourselves, the question is what document is this most pertinent to.

15:29:53 [Adam]

jeffs: The only part I disagree with is 5.4 Specialised User Interfaces...

15:30:08 [francois]

"In the field of portable devices, it is not realistic to assume a standardization process similar to that which defined the PC user interface."

15:30:49 [jeffs]

"In the field of portable devices, it is not realistic to assume a standardization process similar to that which defined the PC user interface."

15:31:17 [jeffs]

from in 5.4 Specialized user interfaces of ETSI DEG 202 972 V 0.30 (2008-06-02)

15:31:41 [Adam]

jo: In summary -- we need to read Jeff's review and form a collective opinion. We will put this on the agenda for next time.

15:32:44 [jo]

Topic: JOnathan's Proposal for Microformat for mobileOK

15:32:51 [jo]

s/JO/Jo/

15:33:08 [jo]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Oct/0065.html mobileOK Korea proposed microformat

15:33:34 [PhilA]

PhilA has joined #bpwg

15:33:39 [jeffs]

q+

15:33:49 [jo]

ack j

15:34:02 [jo]

-> http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dhpvgnmn_68dwzhntdt Jonathan's proposal

15:34:37 [Adam]

jo: I think what Jonathan is saying here that getting browsers to understand Powder is quite hard, but it would be easier in this microformat.

15:34:40 [Zakim]

+Phil_Archer

15:34:52 [jeffs]

q-

15:35:41 [Adam]

PhilA: I have drafted a response which I have sent to power WG members first.

15:35:49 [Adam]

s/power/powder

15:36:22 [brucel]

Can I point out that the microformat has an accessibility mistake when it claims "Human vs. ISO8601 dates problem solved"

15:36:23 [yeliz]

zakim, mute yeliz

15:36:23 [Zakim]

yeliz should now be muted

15:36:33 [Adam]

PhilA: What Jonathan has done has create a microformat based on Powder work.

15:37:01 [Adam]

... one of the differences is that the description is separate to the document it describes.

15:37:18 [Adam]

... Jonathan's proposal would put a lot of extra bytes into the XHTML document.

15:37:42 [JonathanJ]

I agree that point.

15:37:47 [Adam]

... so Phil's questions whether this is a question worth paying...

15:38:07 [Adam]

... but on the otherhand, Jonathan's point that microformats are well supported is valid.

15:38:12 [jeffs]

seems to me there might be a way to point to the meta-data rather than to embed it... is there a reasonable and small-byte-count approach to that??

15:38:29 [Adam]

... depends what you are trying to do. No problem per se with making a microformat based on Powder.

15:39:06 [Adam]

... if you lose the ability to attribute who is making the claim that is a core part of POWDER that would be lost.

15:39:43 [jo]

ack K

15:39:49 [Adam]

Phil will be posting his comments to the list soon.

15:39:52 [JonathanJ]

I think microformat can made in simplest way.

15:40:02 [Zakim]

+ +0121707aacc

15:40:38 [dom]

zakim, aacc is Bruce

15:40:38 [Zakim]

+Bruce; got it

15:41:13 [Adam]

jeffs: What we're talking about is metadata... The objections about large byte count are reasonable, so was wondering if there was a reasonable mechanism for microformat to point to metadata file?

15:42:45 [Adam]

Phil: Three ways this is supported: 1. LINK REL; 2. HTTP LINK; 3. RDF annotation.

15:42:49 [jo]

(Phil discusses <link rel="describedBy">)

15:43:20 [JonathanJ]

I think my propose will be one of additional method for trustmark.

15:43:52 [dom]

RDFa is not compatible with XHTML basic

15:44:01 [Adam]

jo: Pointing out that MobileOK requires valid XHTML1.1, RDFa might not qualify. Would need to ensure that a microformat was valid XHTML

15:44:03 [dom]

but most microformats can be used in XHTML Basic

15:44:43 [JonathanJ]

OK

15:45:38 [jo]

summary for Jonathan: Phil will post to list under ISSUE-283 a more extensive version of his comments and we can discuss on list, OK?

15:45:44 [PhilA]

presumably link is OK in XHTML Basic?

15:45:53 [jo]

yes, Phil

15:46:16 [PhilA]

and HTTP Link is independent of any format

15:46:36 [JonathanJ]

OK. If it possible, I will try to find more reasonable format.

15:47:27 [Zakim]

-Phil_Archer

15:49:00 [JonathanJ]

please, send me what is the problem. I need comments. :)

15:49:26 [Zakim]

-kai

15:49:28 [Zakim]

-Bruce

15:49:28 [Zakim]

-dom

15:49:29 [Zakim]

-jo

15:49:31 [Zakim]

-Adam

15:49:32 [Zakim]

-abel

15:49:33 [Zakim]

-SeanP

15:49:36 [Zakim]

-Francois

15:49:39 [Zakim]

-jeffs

15:49:41 [nacho_marin]

nacho_marin has left #bpwg

15:49:42 [abel]

abel has left #bpwg

15:50:13 [Zakim]

-yeliz

15:50:15 [Zakim]

MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended

15:50:16 [Zakim]

Attendees were jo, Francois, jeffs, +0207881aaaa, Adam, dom, yeliz, abel, nacho, SeanP, +0496151680aabb, kai, Phil_Archer, +0121707aacc, Bruce

15:50:39 [yeliz]

yeliz has left #bpwg

15:53:05 [PhilA]

PhilA has left #bpwg

15:54:18 [francois]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

15:54:18 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-bpwg-minutes.html francois

15:54:27 [brucel]

brucel has left #bpwg

16:08:25 [francois]

RRSAgent, bye

16:08:25 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items