14:48:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
14:48:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-bpwg-irc
14:48:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:48:35 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #bpwg
14:48:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be BPWG
14:48:37 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
14:48:38 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
14:48:38 <trackbot> Date: 06 November 2008
14:48:47 <dom> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/4912B896.6010800@mtld.mobi
14:48:49 <dom> Chair: jo
14:54:17 <jeffs> jeffs has joined #bpwg
14:54:42 <cgi-irc> cgi-irc has joined #bpwg
14:55:24 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has now started
14:55:29 <Zakim> +??P0
14:56:07 <francois> Regrets: DavidStorey, Miguel, Manrique, Sangwhan, rob
14:56:14 <jo> zakim, code?
14:56:14 <Zakim> the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo
14:56:44 <yeliz> yeliz has joined #bpwg
14:56:49 <Zakim> +jo
14:57:04 <cgi-irc> zakim, cgi-irc is me
14:57:04 <Zakim> sorry, cgi-irc, I do not recognize a party named 'cgi-irc'
14:58:55 <JonathanJ> JonathanJ has joined #bpwg
14:58:57 <Zakim> +Francois
14:59:27 <francois> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:59:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, jo, Francois
14:59:47 <francois> zakim, ??P0 is jeffs
14:59:47 <Zakim> +jeffs; got it
15:00:41 <Zakim> + +0207881aaaa
15:00:47 <Adam> zakim, aaaa is me
15:00:47 <Zakim> +Adam; got it
15:01:27 <Zakim> +??P21
15:01:33 <dom> zakim, ??P21 is me
15:01:33 <Zakim> +dom; got it
15:01:40 <dom> zakim, mute me
15:01:41 <Zakim> dom should now be muted
15:02:41 <Zakim> +??P31
15:02:51 <yeliz> zakim, ??P31 is yeliz
15:02:51 <Zakim> +yeliz; got it
15:04:41 <francois> Scribe: francois
15:04:45 <francois> Scribe: adam
15:04:45 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
15:04:45 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
15:04:49 <dom> ScribeNick: Adam
15:05:06 <abel> abel has joined #bpwg
15:05:18 <Adam> Topic: Review F2F
15:06:05 <Adam> Jo: First day on CT, broke back of LC comments. Jo is still integrating comments.
15:06:05 <Zakim> +Martin
15:06:20 <Adam> ... day 2 decided there would be no machine readable MobileOK...
15:06:25 <nacho> nacho has joined #bpwg
15:06:30 <abel> zakim, Martin is me
15:06:31 <Zakim> +abel; got it
15:06:31 <Adam> ... heard to Korean MobileOK.  
15:06:39 <abel> zakim, nacho is with me
15:06:39 <Zakim> +nacho; got it
15:07:19 <Adam> ... discussed MWABP + various reports on Power / DDR / and mobile Web for Social Development.
15:07:27 <Adam> s/Power/Powder
15:07:37 <Adam> Topic: Seoul F2F
15:07:58 <Adam> Jo: 11 responses so far, need some more responses.
15:08:08 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/37584/BPWG-F2F-Seoul-2009/ Questionnaire on next F2F in Seoul
15:08:12 <dom> -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/37584/BPWG-F2F-Seoul-2009/results Responses to survey on going to Seoul for next F2F
15:08:13 <francois> q+
15:08:15 <Adam> ... open for another week or so.
15:08:23 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #bpwg
15:08:38 <jo> ack f
15:08:56 <Adam> francois: can Adam come in fact (indicated he might not be able to).
15:09:38 <Adam> Adam: I will try my very best. Probably will make it.
15:09:54 <dom> probably worth sending a reminder?
15:10:35 <Zakim> +SeanP
15:10:42 <Adam> Jo: Can everyone please answer the questionnaire. Francois will send a reminder.
15:10:56 <Adam> Topic: MobileOK Basic Tests
15:11:16 <Adam> Jo: Mobile okay has gone to PR !
15:11:22 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/PR-mobileOK-basic10-tests-20081103/ Proposed Rec of mobileOK Basic Tests
15:11:49 <dom> -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/mobileOK-basic10-tests/ AC Review form for mobileOK Basic
15:12:02 <Adam> francois: To get to Rec we call to AC representatives, final date for comments is 1st Dec.
15:12:06 <dom> Please ask your AC Rep to send a review
15:12:21 <Adam> ... depending on support we receive we can then hopefully move forward to Recommendation.
15:12:45 <Adam> ... encourage us to pass news to AC Rep or fill our the form is you are the AC Rep for your organization.
15:12:47 <dom> -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/mobileOK-basic10-tests/ AC Review form for mobileOK Basic
15:12:49 <dom> q+ to mention member testimonials, press release
15:12:55 <dom> ack me
15:12:56 <Zakim> dom, you wanted to mention member testimonials, press release
15:13:29 <Adam> dom: We are also going to have a press release and publish member testimonials.
15:13:49 <dom> zakim, mute me
15:13:49 <Zakim> dom should now be muted
15:13:51 <Adam> dom: If you want to have your organization associated with the press release you should start working on getting a testimonial together.
15:14:27 <Adam> Topic: Update on Accessibility
15:14:32 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
15:14:32 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
15:15:39 <Adam> Yeliz: Not much change right now.
15:16:34 <Adam> francois: Yeliz's document will be published as final work. Alan's published as updated working draft. At which point we will review.
15:17:07 <Adam> francois: Will then move to publish document as a Working Group Note.
15:17:25 <dom> ack me
15:17:45 <Adam> Topic: BP1.5
15:17:48 <dom> ACTION-872?
15:17:49 <trackbot> ACTION-872 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to work on reformulating 4 "tests" of BP 1.5 -- due 2008-10-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:17:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/872
15:17:50 <nacho_marin> nacho_marin has joined #bpwg
15:17:54 <Kai> Kai has joined #bpwg
15:17:56 <Adam> Jo: Kai is not here. Dom has done his action, action on everyone esle to respond.
15:18:02 <Adam> Topic: MobileOK Scheme
15:18:04 <dom> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/1224600332.7211.66.camel%2540altocumulustier Dom's proposed rewrite for BP 1.5
15:18:11 <Adam> Jo: I have published the draft but not updated the link...
15:18:41 <Adam> ... Hopefully we'll have the licence etc done before MobileOK goes to rec.
15:19:24 <dom> zakim, mute me
15:19:27 <Adam> Topic: CT
15:19:27 <Zakim> dom should now be muted
15:19:39 <Zakim> + +0496151680aabb
15:19:58 <dom> zakim, aabb is kai
15:19:58 <Zakim> +kai; got it
15:20:07 <Adam> francois: Reviewed last call comments and Jo is updating draft.
15:20:11 <Adam> Topic: BP1.5
15:21:03 <Adam> Kai: Thankyou to Dom for reworking the document. Believe this is pretty tight. Request to the group for feedback so Kai can continue with that formwat.
15:21:07 <Adam> s/formwat/format
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15:21:21 <Adam> Topic: BP2
15:21:42 <Adam> Adam: Have folding in comments from the F2F and will share early next week.
15:22:22 <Adam> Topic: AOB
15:22:44 <Adam> Jo: Action-875 should have been on the agenda. Jeff to comment on ...
15:22:52 <jo> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2008Oct/0031.html Jeff's comments on ETSI doc
15:22:58 <Adam> the ETSI document.
15:23:45 <Adam> jeffs: Guidelines for generic UI elements for 3G terminals... Have sent a review email to the list.
15:24:46 <Adam> ... there are some areas where we could do work on our stuff in response, but want to get some feedback from the group before digging much deeper.
15:25:53 <Adam> jeffs: Main document is "pretty big"... Overview document (the one under review) is only a few pages long.
15:26:01 <jeffs> ETSI DEG 202 972 V 0.30  (2008-06-02)
15:26:10 <brucel> brucel has joined #bpwg
15:26:59 <jeffs> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fportal.etsi.org%2Fstfs%2FSTF_HomePages%2FSTF322%2FDEG%2520202%2520972%2520v30_June2_2008_HF46.doc&ei=pQwTSdqPCoyk8ASV-LjQBg&usg=AFQjCNEoGEIc_8b9ANk0H7Xuc-AhpFEFVw&sig2=fsTF_NsshzXwpze1Rt7viA
15:28:15 <brucel> apologies to all for being late; absorbed in a project and just noticed time
15:28:17 <Adam> Jo: Main document is 44 pages... Two things we could do: 1) Provide feedback. 2) Use material to reinforce documents.
15:28:25 <nacho_marin> nacho_marin has joined #bpwg
15:28:43 <Adam> jo: We should restrict feedback to "we are concerned with point XXX" but don't want to get in the position of contributing text.
15:28:49 <Adam> jeffs: Agreed.
15:29:26 <Adam> jo: In terms of what we use ourselves, the question is what document is this most pertinent to. 
15:29:53 <Adam> jeffs: The only part I disagree with is 5.4 Specialised User Interfaces... 
15:30:08 <francois> "In the field of portable devices, it is not realistic to assume a standardization process similar to that which defined the PC user interface."
15:30:49 <jeffs> "In the field of portable devices, it is not realistic to assume a standardization process similar to that which defined the PC user interface."
15:31:17 <jeffs> from in 5.4 Specialized user interfaces of ETSI DEG 202 972 V 0.30  (2008-06-02)
15:31:41 <Adam> jo: In summary -- we need to read Jeff's review and form a collective opinion. We will put this on the agenda for next time.
15:32:44 <jo> Topic: JOnathan's Proposal for Microformat for mobileOK
15:32:51 <jo> s/JO/Jo/
15:33:08 <jo> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Oct/0065.html mobileOK Korea proposed microformat
15:33:34 <PhilA> PhilA has joined #bpwg
15:33:39 <jeffs> q+
15:33:49 <jo> ack j
15:34:02 <jo> -> http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dhpvgnmn_68dwzhntdt Jonathan's proposal
15:34:37 <Adam> jo: I think what Jonathan is saying here that getting browsers to understand Powder is quite hard, but it would be easier in this microformat.
15:34:40 <Zakim> +Phil_Archer
15:34:52 <jeffs> q-
15:35:41 <Adam> PhilA: I have drafted a response which I have sent to power WG members first. 
15:35:49 <Adam> s/power/powder
15:36:22 <brucel> Can I point out that the microformat has an accessibility mistake when it claims "Human vs. ISO8601 dates problem solved"
15:36:23 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
15:36:23 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
15:36:33 <Adam> PhilA: What Jonathan has done has create a microformat based on Powder work.
15:37:01 <Adam> ... one of the differences is that the description is separate to the document it describes.
15:37:18 <Adam> ... Jonathan's proposal would put a lot of extra bytes into the XHTML document.
15:37:42 <JonathanJ> I agree that point. 
15:37:47 <Adam> ... so Phil's questions whether this is a question worth paying...
15:38:07 <Adam> ... but on the otherhand, Jonathan's point that microformats are well supported is valid.
15:38:12 <jeffs> seems to me there might be a way to point to the meta-data rather than to embed it... is there a reasonable and small-byte-count approach to that??
15:38:29 <Adam> ... depends what you are trying to do. No problem per se with making a microformat based on Powder.
15:39:06 <Adam> ... if you lose the ability to attribute who is making the claim that is a core part of POWDER that would be lost.
15:39:43 <jo> ack K
15:39:49 <Adam> Phil will be posting his comments to the list soon.
15:39:52 <JonathanJ> I think microformat can made in simplest way.
15:40:02 <Zakim> + +0121707aacc
15:40:38 <dom> zakim, aacc is Bruce
15:40:38 <Zakim> +Bruce; got it
15:41:13 <Adam> jeffs: What we're talking about is metadata... The objections about large byte count are reasonable, so was wondering if there was a reasonable mechanism for microformat to point to metadata file?
15:42:45 <Adam> Phil: Three ways this is supported: 1. LINK REL; 2. HTTP LINK; 3. RDF annotation. 
15:42:49 <jo> (Phil discusses <link rel="describedBy">)
15:43:20 <JonathanJ> I think my propose will be one of additional method for trustmark. 
15:43:52 <dom> RDFa is not compatible with XHTML basic 
15:44:01 <Adam> jo: Pointing out that MobileOK requires valid XHTML1.1, RDFa might not qualify. Would need to ensure that a microformat was valid XHTML
15:44:03 <dom> but most microformats can be used in XHTML Basic
15:44:43 <JonathanJ> OK
15:45:38 <jo> summary for Jonathan: Phil will post to list under ISSUE-283 a more extensive version of his comments and we can discuss on list, OK?
15:45:44 <PhilA> presumably link is OK in XHTML Basic?
15:45:53 <jo> yes, Phil
15:46:16 <PhilA> and HTTP Link is independent of any format 
15:46:36 <JonathanJ> OK. If it possible, I will try to find more reasonable format. 
15:47:27 <Zakim> -Phil_Archer
15:49:00 <JonathanJ> please, send me what is the problem. I need comments. :)
15:49:26 <Zakim> -kai
15:49:28 <Zakim> -Bruce
15:49:28 <Zakim> -dom
15:49:29 <Zakim> -jo
15:49:31 <Zakim> -Adam
15:49:32 <Zakim> -abel
15:49:33 <Zakim> -SeanP
15:49:36 <Zakim> -Francois
15:49:39 <Zakim> -jeffs
15:49:41 <nacho_marin> nacho_marin has left #bpwg
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15:50:13 <Zakim> -yeliz
15:50:15 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended
15:50:16 <Zakim> Attendees were jo, Francois, jeffs, +0207881aaaa, Adam, dom, yeliz, abel, nacho, SeanP, +0496151680aabb, kai, Phil_Archer, +0121707aacc, Bruce
15:50:39 <yeliz> yeliz has left #bpwg
15:53:05 <PhilA> PhilA has left #bpwg
15:54:18 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:54:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-bpwg-minutes.html francois
15:54:27 <brucel> brucel has left #bpwg
16:08:25 <francois> RRSAgent, bye
16:08:25 <RRSAgent> I see no action items