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11:44:19 <shadi> meeting: TSD TF f2f
11:44:24 <shadi> scribe: shadi
11:44:25 <shadi> 05.11.2008  Participants: Shadi Abou-Zahra, Carlos Velasco, Johannes Koch, Yehya Mohamad
11:44:25 <shadi> Test samples task force:
11:44:25 <shadi> Starting point:
11:44:25 <shadi> BenToWeb test suits: word suite changed to samples because suite does main the software is correct and sufficient. Samples does not have that meaning and does not imply the tool running the samples is accessible
11:44:26 <shadi> Audience
11:44:28 <shadi> Task force, review notes
11:44:29 <shadi> People, who want to test their software
11:44:31 <shadi> Goal for today's meeting:
11:44:34 <shadi> Basic concept and a mock up for today morning
11:44:35 <shadi> discuss it in a wider view
11:44:37 <shadi> Create a stable concept as a start of implementation work.
11:44:39 <shadi> Extensibility and maintenance are core issues of the architecture:-
11:44:41 <shadi> CVS repository as a component
11:44:43 <shadi> for reasons of extensibility and reusability, the architecture should stick to w3c architecture e.g. Using technologies like PHP, MYSQL etc.
11:44:46 <shadi> Carlos presented the BenToWeb repository:
11:44:49 <shadi> A cron job was synchronising with CVS every 6 hours
11:44:51 <shadi> A static copy of the test (TCDL)  was copied to the website
11:44:53 <shadi> table automatically generated
11:44:54 <shadi> The server (Cocoon) reads from the meta data and recognise the relevant data and generate them dynamically
11:44:56 <shadi> SAZ: Are there filtering (sorting) technologies in the current system ? Answer No 
11:44:58 <shadi>  There exists a human readable test viewable in a browser
11:45:01 <shadi> There are different type of tests
11:45:02 <shadi> plain HTML files
11:45:05 <shadi> Change of the current BenToWeb JSP test files to the target language like PHP, python etc.
11:45:06 <shadi> The Editor Parsifal would not be considered as it would mean a deep level involvement in Software development
11:45:08 <shadi> Structure of CVS
11:45:10 <shadi> metdata
11:45:12 <shadi> test files
11:45:14 <shadi> resources
11:45:16 <shadi> CV: For tools FIT is working on development of the next version of their tool imergo, which will be able to run groups of tests
11:45:19 <shadi>  Accessing directly meta data vers. Accessing directly the HTML test files
11:45:21 <shadi> Accessing the test files  would be  the start point, having a search page selecting criteria e.g. Technologies as a result would be
11:45:24 <shadi> a tool friendly page: set of links
11:45:26 <shadi> EARL output with expected results
11:45:28 <shadi> Human friendly format
11:45:30 <shadi> Accessing the meta data would be the next and ultimate step towards tool development implementing EARL
11:45:33 <shadi> Search functionality
11:45:34 <shadi> 1.Technology – any, html, css, scripting...
11:45:36 <shadi> 2.Requirement -  any, principle guidelines, success criteria
11:45:38 <shadi> 1.Guidelines, success criteria
11:45:40 <shadi> 1.Technics should show up
11:45:42 <shadi> 3.Level – A, AA, AAA
11:45:45 <shadi> 4.Select output parameters
11:45:46 <shadi> Display defualt human readable output
11:45:48 <shadi> Display just links to test files
11:45:50 <shadi> Display expected results as EARL
11:45:53 <shadi> SAZ:
11:45:54 <shadi>  we need to develop more test cases
11:45:56 <shadi> AND a web interface to the test cases
11:45:58 <shadi> 3 Step search: 
11:46:00 <shadi> 1.Select global parameters
11:46:03 <shadi> 2.Depending on the first selection select a level (optional)
11:46:05 <shadi> 3.Select the techniques
11:46:06 <shadi> Output of the form is a URI pointing to a list of test files. This URI would be fed into the tools, which will then read all test files and process them sequentially and generate their own output.
11:46:09 <shadi> File format:
11:46:11 <shadi> Id – title – Techniques – Expected outcome -  Test file  - XML Meta data
11:46:13 <shadi> Note: there is the problem of blocking IP's because of too much traffic! In this case the tool developer will create during the tests huge amount of requests to the w3C servers.
11:48:35 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
11:48:40 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
11:48:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/05-tsdtf-minutes.html shadi
11:52:57 <shadi> shadi has changed the topic to: Lunch Break -- back shortly
12:28:25 <MikeS> MikeS has joined #tsdtf
12:36:31 <shadi> hi mike!
12:36:46 <shadi> just back from lunch, setting up
12:45:20 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2008/11/tsd-agenda
12:58:09 <CarlosV> xslt file for TCDL 2.0 files: http://bentoweb.org/refs/TCDL2.0/tcdl2.0tsdtf_to_xhtml.xslt
13:13:06 <shadi> http://www.bentoweb.org/ts/XHTML1_TestSuite3/metadata/sc3.2.4_l2_002
13:40:08 <Christophe> Christophe has joined #tsdtf
13:40:35 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/usingTCDL
13:41:42 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #tsdtf
13:42:44 <MikeS> we're in discussion - done with lunch
13:57:35 <JohannesK> JohannesK has joined #tsdtf
13:58:10 <JohannesK> mc: approach seems to be quite WCAG-specific
13:59:12 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/usingTCDL#structure
14:00:34 <shadi> scribe: JohannesK
14:02:59 <shadi> agenda+ Go Over Search Criteria
14:03:33 <shadi> http://www.bentoweb.org/ts/XHTML1_TestSuite3/metadata/sc3.2.4_l2_002
14:06:00 <Christophe> HTML view (sortable and with expected result): http://tinyurl.com/ynu7q4
14:06:50 <Christophe> http://canada.esat.kuleuven.be/bentoweb/tsdtf/xhtml/index.html
14:08:26 <JohannesK> works in FF 2
14:12:11 <shadi> shadi has changed the topic to: Coffee Break -- back at 15:30 CET
14:12:40 <MikeS> will redial in 20
14:28:45 <MikeS> IBM's auto software installer just did an install and I need to reboot. will be back on in a few
14:33:35 <MikeS> MikeS has joined #tsdtf
14:34:32 <Tim> Tim has joined #tsdtf
14:36:30 <MichaelC> Tim http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/WebInterface/Mockups/design.html
14:37:44 <MikeS> trying to dial back in - not getting anything. anybody else try yet?
14:38:01 <shadi> yes, all here :)
14:38:22 <MikeS> +496940359803
14:38:32 <MikeS> using our internal VOIP SameTime suite
14:38:36 <shadi> yup, correct #
14:38:43 <MikeS> worked fine this AM
14:39:06 <MikeS> pls proceed without me; I'll listen in on IRC
14:39:37 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/WebInterface/Mockups/search.html
14:41:32 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/usingTCDL
14:45:12 <shadi> MC: sorty by pass/fail -- expected outcome
14:45:39 <shadi> MC: sorty by technology element -- such as "img", "table" etc
14:47:01 <MichaelC> Note I mean more "search by" than "sort by" those features, though sorting on them useful too
14:51:50 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tools/
15:05:57 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/2006/tsdtf/TestSampleStatusList
15:07:35 <JohannesK> saz explains status list in WIKI
15:08:46 <JohannesK> saz: can JIRA be a replacement?
15:09:01 <JohannesK> CV: JIRA is an issue tracker
15:10:01 <JohannesK> http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/
15:10:14 <JohannesK> CV: requires MySQL and Tomcat
15:22:47 <shadi> tool should be self-contained 
15:22:47 <shadi> the basic interface should be a list as currently implemented in the wiki 
15:22:47 <shadi> templates for the structure review, content review, and issues are available 
15:22:47 <shadi> automated aspects such as schematron checking etc should be automatically built into the tool, rather than need to be installed separately 
15:23:50 <shadi> + changing status (taking it over from the submitted reviews)
15:41:35 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/process
15:43:53 <JohannesK> saz: we should think about how to get information about the submitter into the database
15:45:14 <JohannesK> saz: either remove status from metadata or have the script update the field
15:48:57 <JohannesK> CV: wish: give public read-only access to CVS repository
15:50:10 <JohannesK> saz: then the status has to be in the metadata
16:10:20 <CarlosV> CarlosV has left #tsdtf
16:10:38 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
16:10:43 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
16:10:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/05-tsdtf-minutes.html shadi
16:10:44 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
16:10:48 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
16:10:48 <RRSAgent> I see no action items