IRC log of svg on 2008-11-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:30:00 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/04-svg-irc
11:30:01 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
11:30:02 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #svg
11:30:03 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
11:30:03 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM scheduled to start now
11:30:04 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
11:30:04 [trackbot]
Date: 04 November 2008
11:30:31 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has now started
11:30:38 [Zakim]
+??P0
11:30:42 [aemmons]
zakim, ??p0 is me
11:30:42 [Zakim]
+aemmons; got it
11:31:04 [Zakim]
+??P1
11:31:11 [anthony]
Zakim, ??P1 is me
11:31:11 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
11:31:35 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
11:31:49 [ed]
Zakim, [IP is me
11:31:49 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
11:32:05 [NH_]
NH_ has joined #svg
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+??P3
11:32:11 [heycam]
Zakim, ??P3 is me
11:32:11 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
11:33:21 [Zakim]
+Doug_Schepers
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+Andrew_Sledd
11:34:09 [NH_]
Zakim, Andrew_Sledd is me
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+NH_; got it
11:37:41 [anthony]
Scribe: anthony
11:37:48 [anthony]
Chair: Andrew Emmons
11:38:37 [anthony]
Topic: Tiny 1.2 PR
11:38:47 [anthony]
AE: Any objections to Tiny 1.2 going to PR?
11:38:55 [anthony]
ALL: None
11:39:34 [anthony]
Resolution: We will advance to Proposed Recommendation and then to Recommendation status
11:40:32 [shepazu]
s/We will advance/The SVG WG agrees to request that SVG 1.2 Tiny be advanced/
11:41:15 [anthony]
Topic: ISSUE-2084
11:41:17 [shepazu]
ISSUE-2084?
11:41:17 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2084 -- 16.2.9 values attribute 'extended syntax' -- CLOSED
11:41:17 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2084
11:41:39 [anthony]
DS: Dr Hoffmann didn't really like this one
11:42:07 [anthony]
... I've marked it as satisfied
11:42:22 [anthony]
... I guess it's not that he's satisfied
11:42:28 [anthony]
... he's willing to live with it
11:42:34 [anthony]
... but he'd rather it removed
11:42:45 [anthony]
... is it ok to remove this part?
11:42:53 [anthony]
AE: No it's ok
11:43:03 [anthony]
... I see there are number of responses on this
11:44:05 [anthony]
DS: I guess the section in question starts with "compatibility with existing content" and ends with "discouraged from using trailing semicolon"
11:44:16 [anthony]
... I can I remove the whole thing
11:44:19 [anthony]
... in values?
11:44:36 [anthony]
... will this have a bad impact on existing content?
11:44:43 [anthony]
NH: I think we can live with that
11:44:49 [anthony]
... I don't think it's a big issue
11:45:32 [anthony]
Resolution: We will remove the section on of the specification allowing trailing semicolon
11:46:05 [anthony]
DS: I can do that now
11:46:28 [anthony]
Topic: Disposition of Comments
11:46:33 [shepazu]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/doc-svgt12.html
11:46:40 [anthony]
DS: There's the link
11:46:43 [anthony]
... if you scroll down
11:46:48 [anthony]
... you'll see on the right hand side
11:46:52 [anthony]
... we had 97 issues
11:47:02 [anthony]
... and 97 satisfied
11:47:14 [anthony]
... and this is the true recording
11:47:25 [anthony]
... we worked with everyone to get a resolution
11:50:50 [shepazu]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/SVGT12-ImpReport.html
11:51:02 [anthony]
DS: This is also important
11:51:10 [anthony]
... there are a number of tests we had to drop at the last minute
11:51:15 [anthony]
... for various reasons
11:51:26 [anthony]
... we have spotty coverage on some of them
11:51:37 [anthony]
... but we have at least 2 passes for every approved test
11:51:55 [anthony]
... and a big thank you to the implementors
11:52:10 [anthony]
NH: I found a few mistakes in some tests
11:52:27 [anthony]
DS: I think we should wait a week before we look at those
11:52:46 [anthony]
... we'll be updating it at the time we go to recommendation
11:52:58 [anthony]
... we should update this with more tests
11:53:03 [anthony]
... and an updated corverage
11:53:10 [anthony]
... I'd like to have at least 500 tests
11:53:36 [anthony]
NH: Is it possible for us to get our new implementation for this release?
11:53:55 [anthony]
DS: I'm not sure. It is possible
11:54:07 [anthony]
NH: I can send you our player with the tests
11:54:17 [anthony]
DS: Ok, I'll attempt to do that
11:54:23 [anthony]
... can you do that today?
11:54:27 [anthony]
NH: In a few hours
11:54:34 [anthony]
DS: It's going to be passes right?
11:54:37 [anthony]
NH: Yes
11:54:48 [anthony]
DS: Is it for Mac or Windows?
11:54:50 [anthony]
NH: Windows
11:55:13 [anthony]
DS: I guess there are only 15 or 20 that you're not passing
11:55:25 [anthony]
NH: I think it's more
11:55:46 [anthony]
DS: Please send me the implementation
11:55:56 [anthony]
NH: I'll send you the implementation with a list of the tests we've been fixing
11:56:03 [anthony]
... and Bitflash can do the same
11:56:16 [anthony]
... and I'll see about adding them to the matrix
11:57:00 [anthony]
Topic: Telcon
11:57:11 [anthony]
s/Telcon/Telcon Times/
11:57:12 [heycam]
http://mcc.id.au/2007/03/telcon/
11:58:51 [anthony]
CM: Chris is set to +2
11:58:56 [anthony]
... I'll change him to +1
11:59:05 [anthony]
... he's in the same timezone as ED and NH
12:00:03 [ed]
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=188
12:00:06 [anthony]
DS: I think my zone is -5
12:01:08 [anthony]
... we could move to a Monday telcon
12:01:26 [anthony]
... since we're done with SVG Tiny we should examine what we are doing with telcons
12:02:32 [anthony]
... I propose as we've been discussing for the last several months
12:02:37 [anthony]
... rather than work on 1.2 Full
12:02:42 [anthony]
... that we work on 2.0 core
12:02:51 [anthony]
... which will be a reformulation of SVG
12:03:02 [anthony]
... and more suitable for integration for HTML and XHTML
12:03:19 [anthony]
... and we should focus on bringing all the good stuff from SVG Tiny
12:03:36 [anthony]
... we wouldn't exactly start from scratch
12:03:48 [anthony]
... I'd like to rearrange it because it's a bit confusing
12:04:00 [anthony]
... I propose that one call be devoted be focused on 2.0 core
12:04:10 [anthony]
... and other core be focused on specific modules
12:04:17 [anthony]
... how does that sound to everybody?
12:04:46 [anthony]
... do people think that working 2.0 core is what we should work on?
12:05:03 [anthony]
CM: I think it would be good to work on something like core
12:05:10 [anthony]
ED: I think it depends on the scope of core
12:05:33 [anthony]
... I think it would be useful that maps to 1.1 but has the good things from Tiny
12:05:45 [anthony]
AE: Is it useful having two tracks having Full and Core?
12:06:01 [anthony]
... and we don't have any Tiny any more
12:06:13 [anthony]
... because many small devices are quite powerful
12:06:30 [anthony]
ED: True, because we are shipping SVG full on phones now
12:06:41 [anthony]
AE: And there is a demand to keep up with more graphical effects out there
12:07:04 [anthony]
DS: I've heard they are rewriting flash from scratch
12:07:13 [anthony]
... and there'll be only one
12:07:23 [anthony]
... given what AE has said
12:07:37 [anthony]
... how does Ikivo or Bitflash about this?
12:07:46 [anthony]
... Same as Andrew
12:07:55 [anthony]
NH: Same as Andrew
12:08:18 [anthony]
DS: I think if we are aggressive about core we could get it done in a year
12:08:33 [anthony]
... and we could say that is the spec for mobile devices and browers
12:08:45 [anthony]
CM: On mobile you'd have this base feature set
12:08:51 [anthony]
... and modules build up full
12:08:59 [anthony]
... I guess if we are going to have Core
12:09:06 [anthony]
... that's going to be only one
12:09:14 [anthony]
... is there is a reason for modules?
12:09:35 [anthony]
DS: There is a reason is features can implemented in CSS etc
12:10:17 [anthony]
... Since it is not much more complicated the speed along the rec track is critical
12:10:33 [anthony]
... it's easier to write tests and the smaller specs
12:10:36 [anthony]
... for modules
12:10:51 [anthony]
... we could think of modules as chapters for Core perhaps
12:11:11 [anthony]
ED: If we are going to go down that path we should have a planned infrastructure
12:11:15 [anthony]
... e.g. scripts
12:11:20 [anthony]
... dependencies
12:11:23 [anthony]
... etc
12:11:48 [anthony]
DS: Erik will you compose and email with the challenges you see in that approach
12:12:01 [anthony]
ED: My personal feel it is quicker to move one spec
12:12:03 [anthony]
... then several
12:12:12 [anthony]
... although I could be wrong
12:12:22 [anthony]
DS: In terms of review it could be easier to review smaller ones
12:12:25 [anthony]
... but I could be wrong
12:12:47 [anthony]
AE: If you want to take into account how other modules fit in with other modules
12:12:56 [anthony]
... you may have to read other modules
12:13:01 [anthony]
... to see how it all fits
12:13:41 [anthony]
... maybe we want figure out our approach
12:13:54 [anthony]
... maybe we can raise an issue on modules or a single spec
12:15:02 [anthony]
Resolution: The SVG WG will operate on the assumption that Core 2.0 will be targeted for mobile devices and desktops
12:15:33 [anthony]
DS: There are challenges that we'd run into with modules
12:16:01 [Zakim]
-heycam
12:16:30 [anthony]
... [Discussion on modules]
12:17:17 [anthony]
AE: Maybe Video
12:17:23 [anthony]
... as long as we brought over Video
12:17:32 [anthony]
... and not require us to be placed in a canvas
12:17:42 [anthony]
... just thinking out loud
12:17:57 [anthony]
DS: I'd be strongly in favor of keeping video
12:18:08 [anthony]
... the Video in HTML can't be sync-ed with a time container
12:18:22 [anthony]
... I think we should try to converge on functionality
12:18:32 [anthony]
... we inherited video from SMIL
12:18:35 [anthony]
... so we should keep it
12:19:12 [anthony]
... could have a section on how mobiles should do this
12:20:08 [anthony]
AE: So lets continue trying to get a telcon time
12:20:20 [anthony]
... I think the first few weeks will be figuring out which approach to take
12:20:33 [anthony]
... we agree that two is still appropriate?
12:20:51 [anthony]
DS: Personally I'd like to have 2 telcons as long as 1 is option
12:21:02 [anthony]
... I'd like us to make quick progress on the stuff we have planned
12:21:11 [anthony]
... and drop down to 1 once we're going
12:21:55 [anthony]
AG: Depends on the work load
12:22:05 [anthony]
... I think we should run with two and see how it goes
12:23:45 [ed]
http://mcc.id.au/2007/03/telcon/?op=impossible
12:26:02 [anthony]
ED: Monday and Thursday 20:30
12:26:21 [ed]
s/20:30/20:30 CET/
12:26:48 [ed]
that is the top match on http://mcc.id.au/2007/03/telcon/?op=view
12:27:50 [anthony]
[Discussion on picking a suitable time]
12:29:09 [ed]
Mon 14:30 and Thu 14:30 UTC-5 / Mon 20:30 and Thu 20:30 UTC+1 / Tue 6:30 and Fri 6:30 UTC+11
12:30:19 [anthony]
AE: A new time for next week
12:30:29 [anthony]
... and this Thursday off
12:30:39 [anthony]
DS: So Monday next week?
12:31:19 [anthony]
... I may or may not be available, because I'll be in Japan
12:32:25 [anthony]
... so that'll be 11:30 for folks in CA
12:32:27 [anthony]
Resolution: We will change the telcon time to Mon 20:30 and Thur 20:30 UTC +1
12:32:40 [anthony]
ACTION: To book the telcon bridge for the new times
12:32:40 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - To
12:32:59 [anthony]
ACTION: Doug to Book the telcon bridge with the new times
12:32:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2346 - Book the telcon bridge with the new times [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-11-11].
12:41:22 [Zakim]
-NH_
12:41:23 [Zakim]
-aemmons
12:41:29 [Zakim]
-ed
12:43:22 [Zakim]
-anthony
12:43:23 [Zakim]
-Doug_Schepers
12:43:23 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has ended
12:43:24 [Zakim]
Attendees were aemmons, anthony, [IPcaller], ed, heycam, Doug_Schepers, NH_
12:43:32 [anthony]
Zakim, bye
12:43:32 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #svg
12:43:38 [anthony]
RRSAgent, make minutes
12:43:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/04-svg-minutes.html anthony
13:43:47 [ed_]
shepazu: your last couple of commits look a bit strange (see member-svg-editors)
13:44:08 [shepazu]
oh?
13:45:22 [shepazu]
how so?
13:45:33 [ed_]
or did you mean to remove NH, DOH and TZ from the list?
13:45:44 [ed_]
...and LM
13:46:20 [ed_]
list of authors
13:46:28 [shepazu]
noooo...
13:46:46 [shepazu]
who added them?
13:47:00 [shepazu]
did he check in the changes to master?
13:47:45 [ed_]
heycam
13:47:54 [ed_]
yes, it's in master
13:48:17 [ed_]
index.html revision 1.55
13:48:30 [shepazu]
odd
13:49:25 [ed_]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/master/index.html
13:50:14 [shepazu]
I know I updated...
13:50:29 [shepazu]
I'll try again
13:52:45 [ed_]
will there be some minuted resolutions somewhere on irc regarding the transition call?
13:53:58 [ed_]
gah, maybe that's jibberish...i mean is there an irc-channel similar to how telcons are handled for the call?
13:59:32 [shepazu]
fixed now, thanks
13:59:50 [shepazu]
um... I dunno... I can get back to you in a couple hours about it
14:00:04 [shepazu]
are you intererested in joining the call?
14:01:19 [ed_]
probably won't be able to attend
14:01:27 [shepazu]
ok
14:20:22 [ed_work]
ed_work has joined #svg
14:34:50 [shepazu]
ed_work: can you point me to some cool SVG demos I can show in SVG?
14:35:14 [shepazu]
things like your video reflection, or other wow stuff you've done?
14:35:54 [ed_work]
well, most stuff is linked from my blog
14:36:07 [ed_work]
or through the proceedings from svgopen.org
14:36:27 [ed_work]
http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed
14:39:43 [shepazu]
ed_work: do you know about that project built on Canvas, it's supposed to be pretty impressive, but I can't recall the name
14:40:29 [ed_work]
http://ejohn.org/blog/processingjs/ ?
14:40:42 [shepazu]
yeah, that's it, thanks
14:41:25 [ed_work]
some of which may be done more efficiently using svg+filters btw
14:42:11 [shepazu]
do you have any examples that show that?
14:42:15 [ed_work]
depends on whether you need the dom or not, sometimes the dom simply grows too large
14:43:30 [ed_work]
sorry, no examples of that
14:44:11 [ed_work]
just a question of how much raw pixel processing you need to perform in javascript vs. in native code (filters)
14:45:40 [shepazu]
interesting, ok
14:46:00 [shepazu]
so, I have to give a presentation in Japan on Friday, on SVG and Canvas
14:46:28 [shepazu]
and I've been busting my ass so hard on SVG 1.2 Tiny that I haven't done much for it :(
14:48:45 [ed_work]
you can always talk about that :)
14:49:08 [shepazu]
oh, no worries, I will :)
14:49:43 [shepazu]
so, what do you think the use cases for SVG vs. Canvas are?
14:49:50 [shepazu]
like, for each?
14:50:22 [ed_work]
document format vs umm...javascript?
14:51:04 [ed_work]
svg preserves structure, and is editable in graphics editors
14:51:39 [ed_work]
canvas is lightweight in that it doesn't have a DOM tree to care about
14:52:12 [shepazu]
right, but it offloads all state and event handling to the author
14:52:21 [ed_work]
right
14:52:36 [ed_work]
it gives the power to optimize for specific use-cases
14:52:39 [shepazu]
what pragmatic use cases are each good at?
14:53:13 [shepazu]
obviously, pixel-operations, like getting the color at a point, are better with canvas
14:53:37 [ed_work]
svg might be good for, say take an existing vector image, then edit it, then export it
14:53:45 [ed_work]
which is good for a number of things
14:54:04 [ed_work]
my demos at svgopen this year was based around that
14:54:11 [ed_work]
for some part
14:54:30 [ed_work]
like the map colorizer thing, and the lolcat builder
14:55:52 [ed_work]
http://svgopen.org/2008/presentations/70-Tricks_of_Javascript_and_declarative_animation/index.html has links to those
14:56:55 [ed_work]
accessibility is another thing
14:57:23 [shepazu]
yes
14:57:36 [shepazu]
what are some of the strengths of canvas?
14:57:39 [ed_work]
partially illustrated by the ajax photogallery demo (which I can mail to you if you want, it's not online)
14:57:46 [shepazu]
oh, please do!
14:58:28 [ed_work]
canvas? well...perhaps easier to emulate in IE :)
14:58:57 [ed_work]
and the browsers have pretty good support for it
15:01:29 [shepazu]
it's a good gateway for people who are already familiar with OpenGL graphics programming
15:01:44 [shepazu]
some projects can be ported over
15:02:09 [ed_work]
coming from an operating systems API perspective, canvas is closer to what is offered on platforms
15:02:18 [shepazu]
right
15:02:30 [ed_work]
which may mean that some projects are portable to it
15:03:38 [shepazu]
it's got some 3D implementations...
15:03:52 [ed]
ed has joined #svg
15:04:35 [ed_work]
oh, actually the gallery demo is online...i just missed it...http://svgopen.org/2008/presentations/71-How_to_create_an_AJAX_photo_gallery_in_SVG/
15:04:57 [ed_work]
you need to run a php-capable server on your localhost to run it
15:05:17 [shepazu]
hm, how do I do that?
15:05:27 [ed_work]
download MAMP for example, it's free
15:05:31 [shepazu]
ok
15:06:18 [ed_work]
and you need to edit the path in the php-file too, it's rather clearly marked
15:06:36 [ed_work]
it's a very simple script, just to demo the principle
15:07:12 [shepazu]
ok, thanks
15:12:37 [shepazu]
btw: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Nov/0047.html
15:12:43 [shepazu]
that's a nice message :)
15:16:15 [ed_work]
heh
15:41:10 [ed_work]
well, i'm off now...good luck with the transition call
15:47:00 [shepazu]
thanks, ed_work
17:42:03 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/04-svg-irc
17:59:36 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined &svg
17:59:39 [plh]
zakim, room for 3?
17:59:40 [Zakim]
ok, plh; conference Team_(svg)17:59Z scheduled with code 83261 (TEAM1) for 60 minutes until 1859Z
17:59:41 [Ralph]
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Team_(svg)17:59Z has now started
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+Plh
18:00:06 [shepazu]
Zakim, call shepazu
18:00:07 [Zakim]
ok, shepazu; the call is being made
18:00:08 [Zakim]
+Shepazu
18:01:01 [Zakim]
+Ralph
18:01:42 [plh]
http://www.w3.org/2005/08/online_xslt/xslt?xmlfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/01-transitions.html&xslfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/transitions.xsl&docstatus=pr-tr
18:01:45 [shepazu]
SVG 1.2 Tiny
18:01:45 [shepazu]
Transition Request:
18:01:45 [shepazu]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2008OctDec/0076.html
18:01:45 [shepazu]
DoC:
18:01:46 [shepazu]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/doc-svgt12.html
18:01:46 [shepazu]
Implementation Report:
18:01:47 [shepazu]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/SVGT12-ImpReport.html
18:01:50 [shepazu]
Element Traversal
18:01:52 [shepazu]
Transition Request:
18:01:53 [shepazu]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2008OctDec/0084.html
18:01:56 [shepazu]
DoC:
18:01:58 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/42538/ElementTraversal/doc/
18:02:00 [shepazu]
Implementation Report:
18:02:02 [shepazu]
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/ElementTraversal/tests/report/et-implementationReport.html
18:02:09 [plh]
scribe: plh
18:02:22 [plh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2008OctDec/0076.html
18:03:24 [plh]
-> http://www.w3.org/2008/09/09-svg-minutes.html#item01 transition decision by the group
18:03:54 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/2008/11/04-svg-minutes.html#item01
18:04:30 [plh]
Topic: SVG 1.2 important changes
18:04:48 [plh]
Doug: we made a number of changes regarding the metadata stuff we added.
18:04:56 [plh]
... also regarding i18n
18:05:15 [plh]
... and a bunch of changes to the multimedia stuff, specifically how SMIL integrates with SVG
18:05:43 [plh]
... we had a lot of multimedia or animation issues that we needed to clarify in the spec or to the commenter
18:06:04 [plh]
Ralph: so, you were in CR, with a number of implementations and the implementators raised questions?
18:06:12 [plh]
... why did you do the new LC?
18:06:51 [plh]
Doug: in our previous LC, there were a number of comments that only got resolved during our CR phase
18:07:16 [plh]
... so we made substantial changes based on that
18:07:23 [plh]
... also feedback from implementers
18:07:37 [plh]
... and we wanted to add a few new features, suitable for mobiles
18:07:55 [plh]
... the devices changed in the time we did svg 1.2
18:08:03 [plh]
... so we were able to add more features
18:08:33 [plh]
ralph: can you reassure us that the implementers were closely following with the changes in the second last call?
18:08:52 [plh]
doug: everyone except firefox and safari were updating their implementations in real time
18:09:25 [plh]
... the reasons we included firefox and safari was that certain features, like namespaces, were only supported in those
18:09:37 [plh]
... mobile have "magic" namespaces, ie fixed prefixes
18:10:04 [plh]
... most of the features in svg 1.2 tiny were also in svg full
18:10:15 [plh]
... so we'll keep updating the matric
18:10:18 [plh]
s/tric/trix/
18:10:39 [plh]
ralph: so for the tests that failed, any of the failures related to the changes during LC?
18:10:57 [plh]
doug: no, it's due to lack of implementations or smil
18:11:14 [plh]
... no failure in the final report are linked to the final report
18:11:37 [plh]
Topic: SVG 1.2 requirements
18:12:24 [plh]
Doug: we added an implementation hint/optimization, whether an element will get animated or not
18:12:42 [plh]
... and we added support for rdfa and microformats
18:12:47 [plh]
... by adding attributes
18:12:59 [plh]
... so we meet no new requirements on those attributes
18:13:22 [plh]
... we also took the first step in adding support for ARIA
18:13:39 [plh]
Ralph: any feature request expressed as requirements from other groups?
18:14:21 [plh]
Doug: sort of. we talked with the accessibility people over several months. for rdfa, svg wasn't on their radar but they were enthousiastic about it
18:14:37 [plh]
ralph: did you revise any formal requirements or documents?
18:15:05 [plh]
Doug: that's correct. Not sure if there is a requirement document for svg 1.2 (it was before my time).
18:15:41 [plh]
-> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-SVGTiny12Reqs-20060810/ SVGT 1.2 Requirements
18:16:29 [plh]
FUN 4. SVGT 1.2 should support SVG content organized in pages (use case 1).
18:16:39 [plh]
[[
18:16:41 [plh]
Unsupported. This functionality was explored and found to be unsuitable; pages (on the one hand) and timed scenes (on the other) are better represented using different constructs.
18:16:41 [plh]
]]
18:16:53 [plh]
Doug: we decided to break this out, and that's SVG Print
18:17:30 [plh]
Philippe: you might want to mark the document as deprecated or something like that
18:17:43 [plh]
Topic: SVG 1.2 dependencies with other groups
18:18:07 [plh]
Doug: WAI, I18n, WebApps, and CSS
18:18:25 [plh]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2008JulSep/0086.html SVG 1.2 Tiny announcement
18:19:05 [plh]
Doug: explicit requests for review were sent to the Chairs, WAI, I18N,
18:19:05 [plh]
CSS, HTML, and WebApps mailing lists
18:19:25 [plh]
Philippe: did you get review from HTML?
18:19:29 [plh]
Doug: no
18:20:05 [plh]
... I asked several times, including asking Hixie. I went to the implementators who replied that they were interested in SVG 2.0 Core.
18:20:26 [plh]
Topic: SVG 1.2 document has received wide review
18:20:33 [plh]
Doug: we got 97 comments
18:20:49 [plh]
-> htp://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/doc-svgt12.html SVG 1.2 DoC
18:21:06 [plh]
Ralph: any comments from org outside W3C?
18:22:03 [plh]
Doug: the ones from Cyril Concolato. He is affiliated with MPEG.
18:22:16 [plh]
... there is an MPEG standard that includes SVG and he is an implementer
18:22:37 [plh]
... we've been with OMA, JIS, 3GPP over the last years
18:22:41 [plh]
s//working/
18:22:55 [plh]
Topic: SVG 1.2 issues have been formally addressed
18:22:57 [shepazu]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/doc-svgt12.html
18:23:54 [plh]
Doug: I did the DoC by hand
18:25:07 [plh]
Topic: SVG 1.2 Implementation information
18:25:16 [plh]
- a test suite with a test for each feature
18:25:16 [plh]
- implementation of each feature by 2 independent implementations, one
18:25:16 [plh]
of which is a mobile implementation
18:25:18 [shepazu]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/SVGT12-ImpReport.html
18:25:51 [plh]
Doug: all of them are mobile, except firefox and safari
18:26:12 [plh]
... we also had tests that we did not accept
18:26:42 [plh]
... we have basic and "complex" tests
18:26:56 [plh]
Ralph: what methodology did you use to create the tests?
18:27:21 [plh]
Doug: each participant in the Group went through a chapter in the specification, pulling out requirements from the specification
18:27:49 [plh]
... we used a wiki for those requirements
18:28:04 [plh]
... one person wrote the test, and an other review it
18:28:41 [plh]
ralph: any comment lead to additional tests?
18:28:56 [plh]
doug: it worked both ways, we added and dropped some tests
18:29:13 [plh]
ralph: all of the substantive changes were covered by the tests?
18:29:23 [plh]
doug: we did a pretty good job at that
18:29:43 [plh]
... most of the tests were donated by implementers, especially from bitflash
18:30:14 [plh]
ralph: what's up with the purple outline?
18:31:05 [plh]
doug: at the time of the test fest, the implementation failed but we got a new version since then that passed the test
18:31:20 [Ralph]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFestTPAC.html
18:32:05 [plh]
doug: the purple lines were more bookkeeping for us
18:32:17 [shepazu]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/SVGT12-ImpReport.html
18:33:11 [plh]
... and for people looking at the test suite and wondering which feature are supported
18:33:51 [Ralph]
PLH: be sure to link to the most up-to-date test report from the PR spec
18:33:58 [plh]
philippe: lots of holes for firefox and safari
18:34:25 [plh]
doug: indeed. we were using xml:id instead of id. the webkit folks said they are not going to implement xml:id
18:35:48 [plh]
... we intend to update the reports regularly
18:36:55 [plh]
... we'll update it in place
18:37:55 [Ralph]
http://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/showAllExclusions.php
18:38:21 [Ralph]
http://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/19480/exclude
18:38:24 [plh]
Topic: Patent Disclosures
18:38:45 [plh]
Ralph: we still have an ongoing exclusion period
18:40:55 [plh]
..running until November 14
18:40:55 [Ralph]
... until 14 November
18:41:54 [plh]
Philippe: hard to go around it, since new features were added during CR
18:42:25 [Ralph]
http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=19480&order=org
18:42:46 [plh]
Doug: looks like we have no choice :(
18:45:01 [plh]
Topic: SVG 1.2 Decision
18:45:15 [plh]
Ralph: I think we're good to go, once the exclusion period is passed
18:46:00 [plh]
----
18:46:49 [plh]
Doug: on SVG 1.2 dependencies, we're depending on DOM 2 events and we copied the keyboard events into SVG 1.2
18:47:09 [plh]
... so the only dependency is ElementTraversal
18:47:44 [plh]
Topic: Element Traversal Transition
18:47:58 [plh]
Ralph: it wasn't 7 days since the transition request...
18:48:54 [plh]
Doug: no changes were done in the document
18:49:20 [plh]
Topic: ET decision to request the transition
18:49:31 [plh]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2008OctDec/0084.html transition request
18:50:14 [plh]
http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-webapps-minutes#item05
18:50:22 [plh]
Topic: changes to the document
18:50:25 [Ralph]
Doug: test bugs have been fixed and the implementations still pass
18:50:25 [plh]
Doug: none
18:50:56 [plh]
Topic: document satisfies group's requirements
18:51:22 [Ralph]
Doug: no new comments during CR
18:51:58 [plh]
Doug: we are now working on a new spec which is related to ET
18:52:12 [plh]
... it addresses some of the requests during LC
18:52:24 [plh]
... might be a version 2
18:52:57 [plh]
... the origin of ET was from SVG.
18:53:05 [plh]
... it was splitted out from there
18:53:51 [plh]
... one requirement was NOT to use a NodeList
18:53:58 [plh]
... the new version will add it
18:54:11 [plh]
Topic: ET dependencies
18:54:31 [plh]
Doug: SVG, HTML
18:54:57 [plh]
Topic: wide review
18:55:22 [plh]
Doug: no issues were received during CR
18:55:56 [plh]
Topic: ET implementation
18:56:09 [shepazu]
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/ElementTraversal/tests/report/et-implementationReport.html
18:56:33 [plh]
- a test suite with a test for each feature
18:56:33 [plh]
- implementation of each feature by 2 independent implementations
18:56:58 [plh]
Doug: we have 3 implementations: firefox, opera, batik
18:57:14 [plh]
... each test is 3 files (html, svg, xhtml)
18:57:53 [plh]
Ralph: and all those implementers were in the group
18:58:02 [plh]
doug: yep, technically, we could have skipped CR
18:58:16 [plh]
Topic: ET Patent Disclosures
18:58:23 [plh]
Ralph: all is fine
18:58:29 [plh]
Topic: ET Director Decision
18:58:35 [plh]
Ralph: looks good to me
18:58:49 [plh]
Topic: next steps
18:58:59 [plh]
target date for publication is November 15
18:59:07 [plh]
there will a press release
18:59:14 [plh]
on SVG 1.2, with mentions of ET
18:59:30 [plh]
target date for REC is December 16 (To be confirmed by Comm)
18:59:41 [Ralph]
-> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/42538/status IPP status for WebApps
19:03:20 [Zakim]
-Ralph
19:03:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/04-svg-minutes.html plh
19:03:32 [Zakim]
-Shepazu
19:08:32 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, Plh, in Team_(svg)17:59Z
19:08:35 [Zakim]
Team_(svg)17:59Z has ended
19:08:35 [Zakim]
Attendees were Plh, Shepazu, Ralph
19:25:44 [Ralph]
Ralph has left &svg
19:26:41 [plh]
rrsagent, bye
19:27:01 [plh]
rrsagent, go away
19:27:01 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'go away', plh. Try /msg RRSAgent help
19:27:09 [plh]
rrsagent, make logs public
19:27:33 [plh]
(don't worry about, I changed the location of the minutes)
19:27:37 [plh]
rrsagen,t bye
19:27:40 [plh]
rrsagent, bye
19:27:40 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items