IRC log of wam on 2008-10-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:11:16 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wam
12:11:16 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-wam-irc
12:11:21 [timeless]
zakim +??P18 is Marcos
12:11:24 [Zakim]
+ +39.011.228.aaaa
12:11:39 [ArtB]
Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference
12:11:44 [ArtB]
Date: 30 October 2008
12:11:55 [ArtB]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0201.html
12:11:57 [ArtB]
Chair: Art
12:12:00 [ArtB]
Scribe: Art
12:12:04 [ArtB]
ScribeNick: ArtB
12:12:13 [ArtB]
Regrets: Thomas, David, Jere
12:12:27 [Zakim]
+??P19
12:12:30 [ArtB]
Present: Art, Arve, Marcos, Bryan, Josh, Claudio
12:12:38 [arve]
+??P19
12:12:48 [arve]
Zakim, I am ??P19
12:12:48 [Zakim]
+arve; got it
12:13:00 [ArtB]
Present: +Mark
12:13:00 [timeless]
zakim +39.011.228.aaaa is Claudio
12:13:23 [ArtB]
Topic: Agenda review
12:13:32 [ArtB]
AB: any changes?
12:13:34 [ArtB]
[None]
12:13:38 [ArtB]
Topic: Annoucements
12:13:44 [ArtB]
AB: any annoucements?
12:13:45 [timeless]
# who is on the phone?
12:13:49 [timeless]
who is on the phone?
12:13:57 [ArtB]
AB: Workshop deadline is now Nov 5
12:14:00 [timeless]
Zakim: who is on the phone?
12:14:07 [ArtB]
AB: who plans to submit a Position Paper?
12:14:46 [Bryan]
very noisy
12:15:00 [arve]
ArtB: Arve just spoke, and I said we were planning on submitting a position paper
12:15:00 [marcos]
zakim, who is making noise
12:15:00 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is making noise', marcos
12:15:13 [marcos]
zakim, who is making noise?
12:15:23 [Zakim]
marcos, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P18 (29%), arve (53%)
12:15:30 [ArtB]
AB: am I the only one that cannot understand anything that is being said?
12:15:42 [marcos]
zakim, must Arve
12:15:42 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'must Arve', marcos
12:15:46 [tlr]
zakim, mute arve
12:15:46 [Zakim]
arve should now be muted
12:15:48 [timeless]
zakim, list participants
12:15:48 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Josh_Soref, Art_Barstow, Bryan_Sullivan, +39.011.228.aaaa, arve
12:15:49 [Bryan]
I can't understand either
12:16:02 [arve]
muting me didn't help
12:16:04 [timeless]
zakim, +39.011.228.aaaa is Claudio
12:16:04 [Zakim]
+Claudio; got it
12:16:15 [arve]
I can't understand a word being said
12:16:17 [Bryan]
I hear a 2nd conversation
12:16:32 [Zakim]
-??P18
12:16:38 [ArtB]
AB: everyone hang up and re-dial, please !
12:16:40 [Zakim]
-arve
12:16:42 [Zakim]
-Art_Barstow
12:16:43 [Bryan]
OK
12:16:44 [Zakim]
-Josh_Soref
12:16:48 [Zakim]
-Bryan_Sullivan
12:16:49 [Zakim]
-Claudio
12:16:49 [Zakim]
Team_(wam)12:09Z has ended
12:16:51 [Zakim]
Attendees were Josh_Soref, Art_Barstow, Bryan_Sullivan, arve, Claudio
12:16:54 [tlr]
zakim, this will be team1
12:16:54 [Zakim]
ok, tlr; I see Team_(wam)12:09Z scheduled to start 7 minutes ago
12:17:16 [Zakim]
Team_(wam)12:09Z has now started
12:17:23 [Zakim]
+Bryan_Sullivan
12:17:42 [Zakim]
+Art_Barstow
12:17:45 [timeless]
zakim, code?
12:17:45 [Zakim]
the conference code is 83261 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), timeless
12:17:56 [Zakim]
+ +039011228aaaa
12:18:08 [Zakim]
+ +44.207.070.aabb
12:18:20 [Zakim]
+Josh_Soref
12:18:27 [timeless]
zakim, +039011228aaaa is Claudio
12:18:27 [Zakim]
+Claudio; got it
12:18:31 [marcos]
Zakim, +44.207.070.aabb is Marcos and Mark
12:18:31 [Zakim]
I don't understand '+44.207.070.aabb is Marcos and Mark', marcos
12:18:36 [Zakim]
+??P4
12:18:45 [arve]
zakim, ??P4 is me
12:18:45 [Zakim]
+arve; got it
12:18:56 [marcos]
Arve, you are very noisy
12:19:02 [timeless]
zakim, mute arve
12:19:02 [Zakim]
arve should now be muted
12:19:26 [ArtB]
AB: is anyone going to submit a PP for the workshop?
12:19:30 [ArtB]
MC: I will
12:19:38 [ArtB]
AB: how about Vodafone?
12:19:39 [arve]
Zakim, unmute me
12:19:39 [Zakim]
arve should no longer be muted
12:19:51 [ArtB]
MP: no
12:20:08 [timeless]
zakim, mute arve
12:20:08 [Zakim]
arve should now be muted
12:20:09 [ArtB]
Arve: I believe Opera will submit a paper
12:20:20 [ArtB]
JS: no
12:20:41 [ArtB]
Bryan: we may submit something but we won't be present
12:20:54 [ArtB]
CV: we won't submit a paper but are very interested in the outcome
12:21:05 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Bryan_Sullivan, Art_Barstow, +44.207.070.aabb, Josh_Soref, Claudio, arve
12:21:24 [ArtB]
Topic: URI scheme
12:21:39 [ArtB]
AB: we had a good conversation with TAG last week
12:22:40 [ArtB]
AB: would like to know what people think are the next steps for this issue
12:22:50 [ArtB]
MC: I think we have enough technical arguments to push forward
12:22:58 [ArtB]
... we do need to fleshout the reqs
12:23:10 [ArtB]
... We may also want to coordinate with other groups
12:23:17 [ArtB]
... e.g. the ODF group
12:23:24 [ArtB]
... they need a similar URI scheme
12:23:31 [ArtB]
... for packaging
12:23:35 [Bryan]
q+
12:24:00 [timeless]
ack
12:24:33 [ArtB]
BS: we recognize (in OMA) that some type of URI scheme for widget interaction is needed
12:24:36 [timeless]
zakim, ack bryan
12:24:36 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
12:24:44 [ArtB]
CV: I agree with Marcos and Bryan
12:25:14 [ArtB]
... I think a widget-specific URI scheme would be useful
12:25:55 [arve]
zakim, unmute me
12:25:55 [Zakim]
arve should no longer be muted
12:26:05 [ArtB]
JS: I haven't changed my mind
12:26:08 [arve]
zakim, mute me
12:26:08 [Zakim]
arve should now be muted
12:26:16 [ArtB]
... agree we need to flesh out the reqs
12:26:25 [arve]
zakim, unmute me
12:26:25 [Zakim]
arve should no longer be muted
12:26:57 [marcos]
Arve, you might need to type out your answer
12:26:59 [arve]
zakim, mute me
12:26:59 [Zakim]
arve should now be muted
12:27:12 [arve]
ArtB: Your assesment of my opinion is essentially correct
12:27:56 [ArtB]
AB: I'd like to understand the ODF coordination point
12:28:08 [ArtB]
MC: I've had some conversations
12:28:19 [ArtB]
... I don't want to block on them or create a dependency
12:28:40 [ArtB]
... I will continue to talk with them
12:29:47 [ArtB]
AB: are there some actions we can assign?
12:30:00 [ArtB]
MC: think we need to look at the implications vis-a-vis the API spec
12:30:29 [ArtB]
... we use the widget URI scheme to resolve the DOM at run time
12:30:43 [ArtB]
... this affects the APIs we will define
12:31:10 [ArtB]
Topic: Version String
12:31:48 [ArtB]
AB: Marcos http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0183.html
12:32:11 [ArtB]
AB: where are we on this?
12:32:17 [ArtB]
MC: there were no strong objections
12:32:45 [ArtB]
AB: OpenAjax recommend we consider their model?
12:32:56 [ArtB]
MC: they proposed another way to write the scheme
12:33:11 [ArtB]
... they have a proc model for version strings
12:33:20 [ArtB]
... Arve showed their model has problems
12:33:31 [ArtB]
... I want to follow the KISS principle
12:34:08 [ArtB]
AB: I propose we agree with Marcos' version string proposal
12:34:18 [ArtB]
AB: any objections?
12:34:31 [ArtB]
JS: what about leading zeros?
12:34:41 [ArtB]
MC: they are just opaque strings
12:34:59 [arve]
q+
12:35:00 [arve]
q-
12:35:14 [ArtB]
AB: Josh, please enter an example
12:35:14 [timeless]
MIDlet Suite Versioning suggests:
12:35:27 [timeless]
Major.Minor[.Micro] (X.X[.X])
12:35:32 [arve]
Does this mean any string difference is "a new version"
12:35:44 [ArtB]
MC: we aren't adding that complexity
12:35:53 [ArtB]
... If they are differen, then they are different
12:35:56 [timeless]
do we need to suggest that we're aware that leading zeros are ignored by MIDlet
12:36:13 [timeless]
and that people should avoid using leading zeros (or at least inconsistently)
12:36:25 [arve]
What I actually meant is that "new" is that the UA, or the server, can decide whether it's "newer" or no
12:36:27 [arve]
+t
12:36:33 [ArtB]
AB: Marcos, what do you think about JS' recommendation?
12:36:53 [ArtB]
MC: we can recommend a format
12:37:02 [ArtB]
... and that there is no special processing
12:37:18 [arve]
yes
12:37:19 [Bryan]
+1
12:37:23 [ArtB]
AB: can we live with the model Marcos has proposed?
12:37:28 [ArtB]
JS: yes
12:37:28 [timeless]
yes
12:37:31 [claudio]
yes
12:38:15 [ArtB]
RESOLUTION: Marcos' proposal for version string is acceptable
12:38:29 [ArtB]
Topic: ID attribute
12:38:51 [ArtB]
AB: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0184.html
12:39:01 [ArtB]
AB: there was no follow-up discussion
12:39:47 [ArtB]
AB: see also http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/webapps/20081027
12:40:20 [ArtB]
MC: the question is about whether xml:id should be used or we define our own ID attribute
12:40:27 [ArtB]
JS: could "name" be used?
12:40:35 [ArtB]
MC: we already have a name element
12:41:01 [Bryan]
q+
12:41:10 [ArtB]
... we would have to rename that to "title" element
12:41:13 [timeless]
ack
12:41:33 [Bryan]
q-
12:41:55 [ArtB]
BS: are we planning to use the title attribute in a semantic way?
12:42:02 [ArtB]
MC: no, just a name
12:42:43 [marcos]
marcos has joined #wam
12:42:47 [claudio]
+q
12:43:07 [ArtB]
AB: Marcos, should you followup and make the proposal you and Josh just discussed?
12:43:17 [ArtB]
MC: yes, I can do that
12:43:31 [ArtB]
... we are currently following what other people are doing
12:44:03 [ArtB]
... but I'd like to hear from others
12:44:29 [ArtB]
CV: will there some semantics about the widget in the config doc?
12:44:45 [ArtB]
... Req #12 is related to widget semantics
12:45:22 [ArtB]
MC: no, not at this point
12:45:44 [ArtB]
CV: so the manifest is extensible?
12:45:51 [ArtB]
MC: yes, can add other elements
12:46:32 [timeless]
ack
12:46:45 [ArtB]
CV: what about the widget gallery use case
12:47:13 [ArtB]
MC: the name element could be use in that use case
12:47:49 [ArtB]
BS: there is a core set of metadata attributes already defined
12:47:55 [ArtB]
... and it is extensible
12:48:07 [ArtB]
MC: right, via using another namespace
12:49:00 [ArtB]
AB: are you still looking for more input, Marcos on your ID attribute proposal?
12:49:15 [ArtB]
MC: I can make the change if people are OK with it
12:49:24 [arve]
did the channel just go dead?
12:49:27 [ArtB]
... my fear is confusing widget authors
12:49:43 [Zakim]
-arve
12:50:00 [arve]
I'll have to give up on this, all audio just disappeared
12:50:18 [marcos]
MC: widgetid
12:50:25 [ArtB]
AB: what is your proposal?
12:50:26 [marcos]
MC: uid
12:50:35 [marcos]
MC: name
12:51:32 [ArtB]
AB: I am mostly indifferent
12:51:51 [ArtB]
MC: it is a URI to identify the widget
12:51:54 [ArtB]
JS: could use href
12:52:09 [ArtB]
MC: but that implies something that http can get
12:52:20 [Bryan]
q+
12:52:30 [claudio]
q-
12:52:36 [timeless]
ack
12:52:43 [ArtB]
BS: so you want something that is unique, right
12:52:43 [ArtB]
MC: yes
12:52:48 [ArtB]
BS: what about uniqueid then?
12:52:53 [ArtB]
MC: yes, we could
12:53:11 [ArtB]
.. that's what I meant by "uid"
12:53:35 [marcos]
arve, do you have an opinion?
12:54:04 [ArtB]
... Are we providing at leas a non-normative suggestion about how to add semantics to the widget?
12:54:21 [arve]
leaning towards making it "just a string"
12:54:39 [arve]
I do not like the notion of saying it's an ID
12:54:57 [marcos]
arve, what would you call it?
12:55:20 [Zakim]
+ +47.23.69.aacc
12:55:26 [marcos]
ok, no probs
12:55:27 [arve]
zakim, aacc is me
12:55:27 [Zakim]
+arve; got it
12:55:51 [ArtB]
AB: I propose you make a proposal on the mail list with a default resolution
12:55:55 [ArtB]
MC: OK
12:57:16 [ArtB]
Topic: DigSig
12:57:34 [ArtB]
AB: I will take 4.a and 4.b agenda items to the mail list
12:57:43 [ArtB]
MC: Mark and I have been making some edits
12:58:06 [ArtB]
... need comments from XMLSec WG
12:58:17 [ArtB]
... perhaps that can be done while I am away
12:58:31 [ArtB]
Topic: AOB
12:58:59 [ArtB]
AB: Marcos will be offline for the next three weeks; not online again until 21 November
13:00:06 [ArtB]
AB: I will decide on Tues or Wedn of the next 3 weeks if we will have a voice conf on Thursdays - or not
13:00:30 [arve]
Have a nice trip, marcos
13:01:19 [Zakim]
-Bryan_Sullivan
13:01:21 [Zakim]
-Josh_Soref
13:01:23 [Zakim]
-Art_Barstow
13:01:23 [ArtB]
AB: meeting adjourned
13:01:24 [Zakim]
-Claudio
13:01:25 [Zakim]
- +44.207.070.aabb
13:01:26 [Zakim]
-arve
13:01:26 [Zakim]
Team_(wam)12:09Z has ended
13:01:27 [Zakim]
Attendees were Bryan_Sullivan, Art_Barstow, +44.207.070.aabb, Josh_Soref, Claudio, arve, +47.23.69.aacc
13:01:31 [marcos]
Thanks!
13:01:52 [arve]
arve has left #wam
13:03:05 [ArtB]
RRRSAgent, make minutes
13:03:26 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make log public
13:04:01 [ArtB]
RRSagent, make minutes
13:04:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-wam-minutes.html ArtB
13:05:21 [ArtB]
Present: Art, Arve, Claudio, Mark, Marcos, Josh, Bryan
13:05:34 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
13:05:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-wam-minutes.html ArtB
13:08:45 [ArtB]
rrsagent, bye
13:08:45 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items