12:11:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wam
12:11:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-wam-irc
12:11:21 <timeless> zakim +??P18 is Marcos
12:11:24 <Zakim> + +39.011.228.aaaa
12:11:39 <ArtB> Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference
12:11:44 <ArtB> Date: 30 October 2008
12:11:55 <ArtB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0201.html
12:11:57 <ArtB> Chair: Art
12:12:00 <ArtB> Scribe: Art
12:12:04 <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
12:12:13 <ArtB> Regrets: Thomas, David, Jere
12:12:27 <Zakim> +??P19
12:12:30 <ArtB> Present: Art, Arve, Marcos, Bryan, Josh, Claudio
12:12:38 <arve> +??P19
12:12:48 <arve> Zakim, I am ??P19
12:12:48 <Zakim> +arve; got it
12:13:00 <ArtB> Present: +Mark
12:13:00 <timeless> zakim +39.011.228.aaaa is Claudio
12:13:23 <ArtB> Topic: Agenda review
12:13:32 <ArtB> AB: any changes?
12:13:34 <ArtB> [None]
12:13:38 <ArtB> Topic: Annoucements
12:13:44 <ArtB> AB: any annoucements?
12:13:45 <timeless> # who is on the phone?
12:13:49 <timeless> who is on the phone?
12:13:57 <ArtB> AB: Workshop deadline is now Nov 5
12:14:00 <timeless> Zakim: who is on the phone?
12:14:07 <ArtB> AB: who plans to submit a Position Paper?
12:14:46 <Bryan> very noisy
12:15:00 <arve> ArtB: Arve just spoke, and I said we were planning on submitting a position paper
12:15:00 <marcos> zakim, who is making noise
12:15:00 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is making noise', marcos
12:15:13 <marcos> zakim, who is making noise?
12:15:23 <Zakim> marcos, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P18 (29%), arve (53%)
12:15:30 <ArtB> AB: am I the only one that cannot understand anything that is being said?
12:15:42 <marcos> zakim, must Arve
12:15:42 <Zakim> I don't understand 'must Arve', marcos
12:15:46 <tlr> zakim, mute arve
12:15:46 <Zakim> arve should now be muted
12:15:48 <timeless> zakim, list participants
12:15:48 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Josh_Soref, Art_Barstow, Bryan_Sullivan, +39.011.228.aaaa, arve
12:15:49 <Bryan> I can't understand either
12:16:02 <arve> muting me didn't help
12:16:04 <timeless> zakim, +39.011.228.aaaa is Claudio
12:16:04 <Zakim> +Claudio; got it
12:16:15 <arve> I can't understand a word being said
12:16:17 <Bryan> I hear a 2nd conversation
12:16:32 <Zakim> -??P18
12:16:38 <ArtB> AB: everyone hang up and re-dial, please !
12:16:40 <Zakim> -arve
12:16:42 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
12:16:43 <Bryan> OK
12:16:44 <Zakim> -Josh_Soref
12:16:48 <Zakim> -Bryan_Sullivan
12:16:49 <Zakim> -Claudio
12:16:49 <Zakim> Team_(wam)12:09Z has ended
12:16:51 <Zakim> Attendees were Josh_Soref, Art_Barstow, Bryan_Sullivan, arve, Claudio
12:16:54 <tlr> zakim, this will be team1
12:16:54 <Zakim> ok, tlr; I see Team_(wam)12:09Z scheduled to start 7 minutes ago
12:17:16 <Zakim> Team_(wam)12:09Z has now started
12:17:23 <Zakim> +Bryan_Sullivan
12:17:42 <Zakim> +Art_Barstow
12:17:45 <timeless> zakim, code?
12:17:45 <Zakim> the conference code is 83261 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), timeless
12:17:56 <Zakim> + +039011228aaaa
12:18:08 <Zakim> + +44.207.070.aabb
12:18:20 <Zakim> +Josh_Soref
12:18:27 <timeless> zakim, +039011228aaaa is Claudio
12:18:27 <Zakim> +Claudio; got it
12:18:31 <marcos> Zakim, +44.207.070.aabb is Marcos and Mark
12:18:31 <Zakim> I don't understand '+44.207.070.aabb is Marcos and Mark', marcos
12:18:36 <Zakim> +??P4
12:18:45 <arve> zakim, ??P4 is me
12:18:45 <Zakim> +arve; got it
12:18:56 <marcos> Arve, you are very noisy
12:19:02 <timeless> zakim, mute arve
12:19:02 <Zakim> arve should now be muted
12:19:26 <ArtB> AB: is anyone going to submit a PP for the workshop?
12:19:30 <ArtB> MC: I will
12:19:38 <ArtB> AB: how about Vodafone?
12:19:39 <arve> Zakim, unmute me
12:19:39 <Zakim> arve should no longer be muted
12:19:51 <ArtB> MP: no
12:20:08 <timeless> zakim, mute arve
12:20:08 <Zakim> arve should now be muted
12:20:09 <ArtB> Arve: I believe Opera will submit a paper
12:20:20 <ArtB> JS: no
12:20:41 <ArtB> Bryan: we may submit something but we won't be present
12:20:54 <ArtB> CV: we won't submit a paper but are very interested in the outcome
12:21:05 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Bryan_Sullivan, Art_Barstow, +44.207.070.aabb, Josh_Soref, Claudio, arve
12:21:24 <ArtB> Topic: URI scheme
12:21:39 <ArtB> AB: we had a good conversation with TAG last week
12:22:40 <ArtB> AB: would like to know what people think are the next steps for this issue
12:22:50 <ArtB> MC: I think we have enough technical arguments to push forward
12:22:58 <ArtB> ... we do need to fleshout the reqs
12:23:10 <ArtB> ... We may also want to coordinate with other groups
12:23:17 <ArtB> ... e.g. the ODF group 
12:23:24 <ArtB> ... they need a similar URI scheme
12:23:31 <ArtB> ... for packaging
12:23:35 <Bryan> q+
12:24:00 <timeless> ack
12:24:33 <ArtB> BS: we recognize (in OMA) that some type of URI scheme for widget interaction is needed
12:24:36 <timeless> zakim, ack bryan
12:24:36 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
12:24:44 <ArtB> CV: I agree with Marcos and Bryan
12:25:14 <ArtB> ... I think a widget-specific URI scheme would be useful
12:25:55 <arve> zakim, unmute me
12:25:55 <Zakim> arve should no longer be muted
12:26:05 <ArtB> JS: I haven't changed my mind
12:26:08 <arve> zakim, mute me
12:26:08 <Zakim> arve should now be muted
12:26:16 <ArtB> ... agree we need to flesh out the reqs
12:26:25 <arve> zakim, unmute me
12:26:25 <Zakim> arve should no longer be muted
12:26:57 <marcos> Arve, you might need to type out your answer
12:26:59 <arve> zakim, mute me
12:26:59 <Zakim> arve should now be muted
12:27:12 <arve> ArtB: Your assesment of my opinion is essentially correct
12:27:56 <ArtB> AB: I'd like to understand the ODF coordination point
12:28:08 <ArtB> MC: I've had some conversations
12:28:19 <ArtB> ... I don't want to block on them or create a dependency
12:28:40 <ArtB> ... I will continue to talk with them
12:29:47 <ArtB> AB: are there some actions we can assign?
12:30:00 <ArtB> MC: think we need to look at the implications vis-a-vis the API spec
12:30:29 <ArtB> ... we use the widget URI scheme to resolve the DOM at run time
12:30:43 <ArtB> ... this affects the APIs we will define
12:31:10 <ArtB> Topic: Version String
12:31:48 <ArtB> AB: Marcos http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0183.html
12:32:11 <ArtB> AB: where are we on this?
12:32:17 <ArtB> MC: there were no strong objections
12:32:45 <ArtB> AB: OpenAjax recommend we consider their model?
12:32:56 <ArtB> MC: they proposed another way to write the scheme
12:33:11 <ArtB> ... they have a proc model for version strings
12:33:20 <ArtB> ... Arve showed their model has problems
12:33:31 <ArtB> ... I want to follow the KISS principle
12:34:08 <ArtB> AB: I propose we agree with Marcos' version string proposal
12:34:18 <ArtB> AB: any objections?
12:34:31 <ArtB> JS: what about leading zeros?
12:34:41 <ArtB> MC: they are just opaque strings
12:34:59 <arve> q+
12:35:00 <arve> q-
12:35:14 <ArtB> AB: Josh, please enter an example
12:35:14 <timeless> MIDlet Suite Versioning suggests:
12:35:27 <timeless> Major.Minor[.Micro] (X.X[.X])
12:35:32 <arve> Does this mean any string difference is "a new version"
12:35:44 <ArtB> MC: we aren't adding that complexity
12:35:53 <ArtB> ... If they are differen, then they are different
12:35:56 <timeless> do we need to suggest that we're aware that leading zeros are ignored by MIDlet
12:36:13 <timeless> and that people should avoid using leading zeros (or at least inconsistently)
12:36:25 <arve> What I actually meant is that "new" is that the UA, or the server, can decide whether it's "newer" or no
12:36:27 <arve> +t
12:36:33 <ArtB> AB: Marcos, what do you think about JS' recommendation?
12:36:53 <ArtB> MC: we can recommend a format
12:37:02 <ArtB> ... and that there is no special processing
12:37:18 <arve> yes
12:37:19 <Bryan> +1
12:37:23 <ArtB> AB: can we live with the model Marcos has proposed?
12:37:28 <ArtB> JS: yes
12:37:28 <timeless> yes
12:37:31 <claudio> yes
12:38:15 <ArtB> RESOLUTION: Marcos' proposal for version string is acceptable
12:38:29 <ArtB> Topic: ID attribute
12:38:51 <ArtB> AB: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0184.html
12:39:01 <ArtB> AB: there was no follow-up discussion
12:39:47 <ArtB> AB: see also http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/webapps/20081027
12:40:20 <ArtB> MC: the question is about whether xml:id should be used or we define our own ID attribute
12:40:27 <ArtB> JS: could "name" be used?
12:40:35 <ArtB> MC: we already have a name element
12:41:01 <Bryan> q+
12:41:10 <ArtB> ... we would have to rename that to "title" element
12:41:13 <timeless> ack
12:41:33 <Bryan> q-
12:41:55 <ArtB> BS: are we planning to use the title attribute in a semantic way?
12:42:02 <ArtB> MC: no, just a name
12:42:43 <marcos> marcos has joined #wam
12:42:47 <claudio> +q
12:43:07 <ArtB> AB: Marcos, should you followup and make the proposal you and Josh just discussed?
12:43:17 <ArtB> MC: yes, I can do that
12:43:31 <ArtB> ... we are currently following what other people are doing
12:44:03 <ArtB> ... but I'd like to hear from others
12:44:29 <ArtB> CV: will there some semantics about the widget in the config doc?
12:44:45 <ArtB> ... Req #12 is related to widget semantics
12:45:22 <ArtB> MC: no, not at this point
12:45:44 <ArtB> CV: so the manifest is extensible?
12:45:51 <ArtB> MC: yes, can add other elements
12:46:32 <timeless> ack
12:47:13 <ArtB> MC: the name element could be use in that use case
12:47:49 <ArtB> BS: there is a core set of metadata attributes already defined
12:47:55 <ArtB> ... and it is extensible 
12:48:07 <ArtB> MC: right, via using another namespace
12:49:00 <ArtB> AB: are you still looking for more input, Marcos on your ID attribute proposal?
12:49:15 <ArtB> MC: I can make the change if people are OK with it
12:49:24 <arve> did the channel just go dead?
12:49:27 <ArtB> ... my fear is confusing widget authors
12:49:43 <Zakim> -arve
12:50:00 <arve> I'll have to give up on this, all audio just disappeared
12:50:18 <marcos> MC: widgetid
12:50:25 <ArtB> AB: what is your proposal?
12:50:26 <marcos> MC: uid
12:50:35 <marcos> MC: name
12:51:01 <marcos> CV: wid
12:51:32 <ArtB> AB: I am mostly indifferent
12:51:51 <ArtB> MC: it is a URI to identify the widget
12:51:54 <ArtB> JS: could use href
12:52:09 <ArtB> MC: but that implies something that http can get
12:52:20 <Bryan> q+
12:52:30 <claudio> q-
12:52:36 <timeless> ack
12:52:43 <ArtB> BS: so you want something that is unique, right
12:52:43 <ArtB> MC: yes
12:52:48 <ArtB> BS: what about uniqueid then?
12:52:53 <ArtB> MC: yes, we could
12:53:11 <ArtB> .. that's what I meant by "uid"
12:53:35 <marcos> arve, do you have an opinion?
12:54:04 <ArtB> ... Are we providing at leas a non-normative suggestion about how to add semantics to the widget?
12:54:21 <arve> leaning towards making it "just a string"
12:54:39 <arve> I do not like the notion of saying it's an ID
12:54:57 <marcos> arve, what would you call it?
12:55:20 <Zakim> + +47.23.69.aacc
12:55:26 <marcos> ok, no probs
12:55:27 <arve> zakim, aacc is me
12:55:27 <Zakim> +arve; got it
12:55:51 <ArtB> AB: I propose you make a proposal on the mail list with a default resolution
12:55:55 <ArtB> MC: OK
12:57:16 <ArtB> Topic: DigSig
12:57:34 <ArtB> AB: I will take 4.a and 4.b agenda items to the mail list
12:57:43 <ArtB> MC: Mark and I have been making some edits
12:58:06 <ArtB> ... need comments from XMLSec WG 
12:58:17 <ArtB> ... perhaps that can be done while I am away
12:58:31 <ArtB> Topic: AOB
12:58:59 <ArtB> AB: Marcos will be offline for the next three weeks; not online again until 21 November
13:00:06 <ArtB> AB: I will decide on Tues or Wedn of the next 3 weeks if we will have a voice conf on Thursdays - or not
13:00:30 <arve> Have a nice trip, marcos
13:01:19 <Zakim> -Bryan_Sullivan
13:01:21 <Zakim> -Josh_Soref
13:01:23 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
13:01:23 <ArtB> AB: meeting adjourned
13:01:24 <Zakim> -Claudio
13:01:25 <Zakim> - +44.207.070.aabb
13:01:26 <Zakim> -arve
13:01:26 <Zakim> Team_(wam)12:09Z has ended
13:01:27 <Zakim> Attendees were Bryan_Sullivan, Art_Barstow, +44.207.070.aabb, Josh_Soref, Claudio, arve, +47.23.69.aacc
13:01:31 <marcos> Thanks!
13:01:52 <arve> arve has left #wam
13:03:05 <ArtB> RRRSAgent, make minutes
13:03:26 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make log public
13:04:01 <ArtB> RRSagent, make minutes
13:04:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-wam-minutes.html ArtB
13:05:21 <ArtB> Present: Art, Arve, Claudio, Mark, Marcos, Josh, Bryan
13:05:34 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
13:05:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-wam-minutes.html ArtB
13:08:45 <ArtB> rrsagent, bye
13:08:45 <RRSAgent> I see no action items