IRC log of ua on 2008-10-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:43:29 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:43:29 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-irc
17:43:43 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, set logs public
17:59:54 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started
17:59:56 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
18:00:00 [jeanne-bbiab]
jeanne-bbiab has joined #ua
18:00:31 [JR]
JR has joined #ua
18:00:37 [jeanne]
zakim, code?
18:00:37 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jeanne
18:00:55 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.206.aaaa
18:00:57 [Zakim]
- +1.512.206.aaaa
18:00:57 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.206.aaaa
18:01:17 [Zakim]
+Cantor
18:01:18 [AllanJ]
zakim, aaaa is really allanj
18:01:18 [Zakim]
+allanj; got it
18:01:28 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
18:02:01 [judy]
judy has joined #ua
18:02:06 [judy]
zakim, code?
18:02:06 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), judy
18:02:09 [KFord]
KFord has joined #ua
18:02:23 [Zakim]
+??P7
18:02:33 [JR]
zakim, ??P7 is really Jan
18:02:33 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
18:02:34 [Zakim]
+Judy
18:03:47 [JR]
zakim, who's here?
18:03:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft], allanj, Cantor, Jeanne, Jan, Judy
18:03:48 [Zakim]
On IRC I see KFord, judy, JR, jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, AllanJ, trackbot
18:05:09 [AllanJ]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008OctDec/0029.html
18:06:07 [jeanne]
regrets: Mark, Simon
18:06:11 [Alan]
Alan has joined #UA
18:06:36 [Alan]
Testing...
18:06:42 [jeanne]
present: Jim, Judy, Alan, Kelly, Jan, Jeanne
18:07:16 [jeanne]
meeting:WAI_UA
18:07:33 [KFord]
Scribe: KFord
18:07:55 [KFord]
JB: Can we talk about group members and such.
18:08:28 [KFord]
JB reviewing active group members.
18:11:12 [KFord]
JB: Thinks someone from Opera, and RNIB may be interested. And perhaps two more.
18:12:45 [KFord]
Action: JA to follow up with contacts from RNIB and Opera on membership.
18:12:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-60 - Follow up with contacts from RNIB and Opera on membership. [on Jim Allan - due 2008-11-06].
18:14:48 [KFord]
s/membership/participation
18:15:35 [KFord]
JB: Everyone who was at tech planning meeting please remember other interested folks and establish appropriate contacts.
18:15:43 [jeanne]
action: JS to check with contacts at TPAC for new members
18:15:43 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-61 - Check with contacts at TPAC for new members [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-11-06].
18:16:15 [KFord]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:16:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-minutes.html KFord
18:17:27 [KFord]
Chair: Jim, Judy
18:17:43 [KFord]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:17:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-minutes.html KFord
18:18:24 [KFord]
Topic: Use of surveys in meetings
18:18:59 [KFord]
JA: I thought there might be a way each person can take care of items but I think there needs to be a gatekeepoer and that will probably have to be Jeanne.
18:19:39 [KFord]
JS: Other groups do funnel through one person. Once you setup a survey, folks with appropriate access can edit surveys. It is easiest if I do it because I know I have the appropriate access.
18:20:12 [KFord]
J
18:20:33 [KFord]
B: WCAG has a unique survey format, partly because of the number of issues they were putting through.
18:20:53 [KFord]
s/B:/JB:
18:21:46 [KFord]
JB: Further explanation of process, quite complex, we probably don'tneed something that complicated.
18:22:37 [KFord]
JB: If we use a process where surveys go out a few days ahead, you get a quick list where you can quickly scan and see where folks agree and then focus on areas of question/disagreement more easily.
18:23:25 [KFord]
JA: If we are going to use this survey, this would mean action items need to be in to JS by Monday.
18:23:47 [KFord]
JB: Is this reasonable? It gives two days to complete action items.
18:23:59 [KFord]
JS: I think so.
18:24:09 [KFord]
general agreement with this.
18:25:30 [KFord]
KIF: What does Monday really mean?
18:25:44 [KFord]
s/KIF:/KF:
18:26:04 [KFord]
JS: This really means to me by 8A eastern on Tuesday mornings.
18:26:11 [AllanJ]
additional contact at TPAC was with HTML video person, sent Mark contact information, and issues. I should approach her about participation.
18:26:24 [KFord]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:26:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-minutes.html KFord
18:27:30 [KFord]
JA discusses another possible contact.
18:28:43 [KFord]
Topic: Finishing principle 4, action items 30 and 33.
18:29:17 [AllanJ]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008OctDec/0035.html
18:29:58 [KFord]
JA: 4.1.7 was keyboard navigation.
18:30:12 [KFord]
4.1.1 was inter-group navigation.
18:30:27 [KFord]
JA reads items.
18:30:41 [KFord]
JA: At F2F we agrees these should all be combined.
18:31:07 [jeanne]
4.1.7 Keyboard Navigation: The user can navigate from group to group of
18:31:07 [jeanne]
focusable items and use the keyboard to traverse forwards and backwards all
18:31:07 [jeanne]
of the focusable items within each group. Groups include but are not limited
18:31:07 [jeanne]
to toolbars, panels, and user agent extensions. Level AA
18:31:13 [KFord]
s/we agrees/we agreed
18:33:16 [jeanne]
4.1.7 Keyboard Navigation: The user can use the keyboard to navigate from group to group of focusable items and to traverse forwards and backwards all of the focusable items within each group. Groups include but are not limited to toolbars, panels, and user agent extensions. Level AA
18:34:22 [KFord]
some discussion about language and specific wording of structure for all guidelines.
18:35:08 [KFord]
JA: We have talked about this but should decide about what the stems for each guideline should look like.
18:36:58 [jeanne]
+1
18:37:04 [KFord]
JA: Can we all live with the new 4.7?
18:37:23 [KFord]
Group agrees.
18:37:29 [jeanne]
action: JS to update draft with new text for 4.7
18:37:29 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-62 - Update draft with new text for 4.7 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-11-06].
18:38:04 [jeanne]
trackbot, close action-30
18:38:04 [trackbot]
ACTION-30 Combine 4.1.7 and 4.1.11 sequential and among group navigation closed
18:38:18 [KFord]
trackbot close action 30
18:38:59 [KFord]
Topic: Action 33, reword 4.6.2
18:39:01 [AllanJ]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008OctDec/0036.html
18:41:00 [KFord]
JA reads old and new wordings.
18:41:36 [AllanJ]
<new>
18:41:38 [AllanJ]
4.6.2 Bi-Directional: The user has the option of searching forward or
18:41:39 [AllanJ]
backward from any selected or focused location in content. (Level AA)@@NEW@@
18:41:41 [AllanJ]
</new>
18:41:42 [AllanJ]
Note: removed (in document order), seems redundant. My thinking is...the
18:41:44 [AllanJ]
rendered view and DOM tree is created from the HTML. Searching in any
18:41:46 [AllanJ]
direction will move through the DOM tree and content in the appropriate
18:41:47 [AllanJ]
direction as necessary. To go in some arbitrary order would be more work for
18:41:49 [AllanJ]
the developers and they are unlikely to do that. The author may have created
18:41:50 [AllanJ]
the HTML in one order and repositioned elements using CSS or JavaScript. The
18:41:52 [AllanJ]
UA cannot guess at intentions or know how elements are assembled visually
18:41:53 [AllanJ]
via CSS. The simplest way to search would be the order in which information
18:41:55 [AllanJ]
appears in the HTML and the subsequent DOM tree.
18:42:07 [jeanne]
+1
18:42:11 [AllanJ]
+1
18:43:29 [jeanne]
action:JS to update draft with new text for 4.6.2
18:43:33 [KFord]
group agrees to woring of 4.6.2.
18:43:55 [KFord]
s/woring/wording
18:44:21 [KFord]
trackbot, close action-33
18:44:21 [trackbot]
ACTION-33 Create a proposal for rewording of 4.6.2 closed
18:44:55 [KFord]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:44:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-minutes.html KFord
18:47:35 [AllanJ]
current draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2008/WD-UAAG20-20081022/WD-UAAG20-20081022.html
18:48:08 [KFord]
JB: I'm assuming we didn't complete all the reviews of the document for things like organization and our other areas. Do we want to use time to continue that process?
18:52:20 [JR]
q+
18:52:58 [KFord]
Topic: Stem/handle consistency
18:53:18 [KFord]
Some discussion about has this area been thought about?
18:53:39 [KFord]
JB: W3C has thought about this but has no overall policy.
18:53:58 [KFord]
JR: ATAG has gone to the WCAG style. Each statement is a declarative
18:54:05 [KFord]
statement.
18:54:36 [KFord]
JB Starting with a verb is more comprehensible.
18:54:39 [mth]
mth has joined #ua
18:55:31 [KFord]
Alan, the verb is more inline with what we are trying to do.
18:56:03 [mth]
i am wrapping another call, will join with voice soon.
18:57:26 [KFord]
JR:/me can someone scribe for one second, I need to step out for about one minute.
19:00:33 [AllanJ]
q+
19:00:42 [AllanJ]
ack JR
19:01:38 [KFord]
Much discussion about whether starting with a verb is correct.
19:02:02 [AllanJ]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2008/WD-UAAG20-20081022/WD-UAAG20-20081022.html
19:03:44 [Zakim]
+Mark_Hakkinen
19:07:04 [KFord]
JA: I think we need to start by agreeing on what the format of the stem/shandles should be?
19:07:15 [KFord]
Alan: What I was commenting on was after the title.
19:08:13 [jeanne]
+1
19:08:32 [KFord]
JA: Do we have agreement that the stems should all be noun phrases?
19:09:21 [KFord]
JB: Proposing we come back to this.
19:09:41 [KFord]
JB: Let's talk about the syntax after the stems.
19:10:08 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
19:11:29 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
19:13:18 [AllanJ]
proposal: make available the name, role, state, value, and description for all user interface components including the user interface and rendered content via an accessibility platform architecture
19:15:41 [Alan]
For all user interface components -- including the user interface and rendered content -- make available the name, role, state, value, and description via an accessibility platform architecture.
19:17:04 [judy]
For all user interface components including the user interface and rendered content, make available the name, role, state, value, and description via an accessibility platform architecture.
19:17:56 [AllanJ]
above is 2.1.2
19:19:51 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
19:20:23 [JR]
If any functionality is not supported by the implemented accessibility platform architecture(s), then provide a separate accessible alternative for that functionality that is supported by the implemented accessibility platform architecture(s) and provide a description of the inaccessible functionality appears in the conformance claim.
19:21:02 [JR]
If any functionality is not supported by the implemented accessibility platform architecture(s), then provide a separate accessible alternative for that functionality that is supported by the implemented accessibility platform architecture(s) and provide a description of the inaccessible functionality in the conformance claim.
19:21:51 [JR]
If any functionality is not supported by the implemented accessibility platform architecture(s), provide a separate accessible alternative for that functionality that is supported by the implemented accessibility platform architecture(s) and provide a description of the inaccessible functionality in the conformance claim.
19:22:38 [JR]
If any functionality is not supported by the implemented accessibility platform architecture(s), provide a separate accessible alternative for that functionality that is supported by the implemented accessibility platform architecture(s) and describe the inaccessible functionality in the conformance claim.
19:23:40 [KFord]
Orrsagent, make minutes
19:23:47 [Alan]
If the user agent implements one or more DOMs, make them programmatically available to assistive technologies.
19:23:52 [KFord]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:23:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-minutes.html KFord
19:25:10 [AllanJ]
>If the user agent implements one or more DOMs, make the programmatically available to assistive technologies.
19:25:23 [AllanJ]
>If the user agent implements one or more DOMs, make the DOMS programmatically available to assistive technologies.
19:25:42 [AllanJ]
above is 2.14
19:25:53 [Alan]
If the user can modify the state or value of a piece of content through the user interface (e.g., by checking a box or editing a text area), make the same degree of write access available programmatically.
19:26:24 [AllanJ]
JR above with 4 versions...they are all 2.1.3 - use the last version
19:26:53 [AllanJ]
Alan above ... "if the user can modify..." is 2.1.5
19:28:27 [Zakim]
-Jan
19:29:04 [KFord]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:29:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-minutes.html KFord
19:29:49 [Zakim]
-Judy
19:30:55 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
19:31:08 [Zakim]
-Cantor
19:31:31 [AllanJ]
If the user can modify the state or value of a piece of content through the user interface (e.g., by checking a box or editing a text area) allow programatically modify the same state or value
19:32:13 [AllanJ]
If the user can modify the state or value of a piece of content through the user interface (e.g., by checking a box or editing a text area) allow programatic modification of the same state or value.
19:35:21 [AllanJ]
above is 2.1.5
19:40:26 [AllanJ]
action: MTH to rewrite 2.1.5 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning
19:40:26 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - MTH
19:40:48 [AllanJ]
action: Mark to rewrite 2.1.5 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning
19:40:48 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Mark
19:41:30 [AllanJ]
action: Mark_Hakkenin to rewrite 2.1.5 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning
19:41:30 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Mark_Hakkenin
19:43:07 [AllanJ]
action: Mark_Hakkinen to rewrite 2.1.5 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning
19:43:07 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Mark_Hakkinen
19:45:37 [Zakim]
-Mark_Hakkinen
19:46:02 [AllanJ]
action: Alan to rewrite 2.1.6 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning
19:46:02 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-63 - Rewrite 2.1.6 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning [on Alan Cantor - due 2008-11-06].
19:46:28 [AllanJ]
action: Alan to rewrite 2.1.7 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning
19:46:28 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-64 - Rewrite 2.1.7 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning [on Alan Cantor - due 2008-11-06].
19:46:47 [Alan]
Done.
19:46:52 [Alan]
Bye!
19:46:54 [Alan]
exit
19:47:00 [AllanJ]
action: Kelly to rewrite 3.1.1 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning
19:47:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-65 - Rewrite 3.1.1 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning [on Kelly Ford - due 2008-11-06].
19:47:42 [AllanJ]
action: Markku to rewrite 2.1.5 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning
19:47:43 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-66 - Rewrite 2.1.5 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning [on Markku Hakkinen - due 2008-11-06].
19:48:34 [Zakim]
-allanj
19:48:35 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
19:48:36 [Zakim]
Attendees were [Microsoft], +1.512.206.aaaa, Cantor, allanj, Jeanne, Jan, Judy, Mark_Hakkinen
19:49:51 [AllanJ]
action: Jim to post 'final' versions of 2.1.2 - 2.1.4 to Jeanne for inclusion in survey for next meeting
19:49:52 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-67 - Post 'final' versions of 2.1.2 - 2.1.4 to Jeanne for inclusion in survey for next meeting [on Jim Allan - due 2008-11-06].
19:50:45 [AllanJ]
action: Jeanne to create survey for next meeting for final versions of 2.1.2 - 2.1.4
19:50:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-68 - Create survey for next meeting for final versions of 2.1.2 - 2.1.4 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-11-06].
19:51:46 [AllanJ]
zakim, present
19:51:46 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'present', AllanJ
19:51:57 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:51:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-minutes.html AllanJ
20:07:35 [AllanJ]
zakim, bye
20:07:35 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
20:07:49 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, bye
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
I see 14 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-actions.rdf :
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to follow up with contacts from RNIB and Opera on membership. [1]
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-irc#T18-12-45
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to check with contacts at TPAC for new members [2]
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-irc#T18-15-43
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to update draft with new text for 4.7 [3]
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-irc#T18-37-29
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to update draft with new text for 4.6.2 [4]
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-irc#T18-43-29
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: MTH to rewrite 2.1.5 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning [5]
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-irc#T19-40-26
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Mark to rewrite 2.1.5 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning [6]
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-irc#T19-40-48
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Mark_Hakkenin to rewrite 2.1.5 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning [7]
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-irc#T19-41-30
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Mark_Hakkinen to rewrite 2.1.5 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning [8]
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-irc#T19-43-07
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alan to rewrite 2.1.6 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning [9]
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-irc#T19-46-02
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alan to rewrite 2.1.7 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning [10]
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-irc#T19-46-28
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Kelly to rewrite 3.1.1 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning [11]
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-irc#T19-47-00
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Markku to rewrite 2.1.5 to be active voice with condtionals at the beginning [12]
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-irc#T19-47-42
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jim to post 'final' versions of 2.1.2 - 2.1.4 to Jeanne for inclusion in survey for next meeting [13]
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-irc#T19-49-51
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeanne to create survey for next meeting for final versions of 2.1.2 - 2.1.4 [14]
20:07:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/30-ua-irc#T19-50-45