07:17:12 RRSAgent has joined #pling 07:17:12 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-pling-irc 07:17:46 [First session with egov] 07:18:30 see http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-egov-minutes 07:18:48 lkagal has joined #pling 07:22:40 caribou has changed the topic to: PLING meeting at TPAC - currently with eGov IG, Esterel room 07:22:44 rigo has joined #pling 07:54:10 lkagal has joined #pling 08:08:36 Topic: Geospatial XACML 08:09:23 renato has joined #pling 08:10:16 renato has left #pling 08:10:21 renato has joined #pling 08:11:54 lkagal has joined #pling 08:14:48 rigo has joined #pling 08:24:16 carine, who is taking minutes? 08:26:31 ok 08:26:38 scribenick: rigo 08:27:54 AndreasMatheus (AM) presenting use case of cross border geolocation 08:29:12 using GeoXACML with permissions on who can see what and how to make that even dutch geo data looks in german style and vice versa 08:29:32 AM: applying some restrictions to it 08:30:06 Ashok: people telling us that XACML is just too difficult to use 08:30:37 AM: degree of freedom is so big that you have to write down some stuff on paper before starting to encode 08:31:00 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 08:31:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-pling-minutes.html rigo 08:31:01 lkagal has joined #pling 08:32:08 AM: using MS Infopath to generate XACML, there is no XACML editor, I use XML spy 08:36:45 AM presenting the SEE-Geo Project. 08:37:10 a project of University Edinburgh 08:37:22 geolocation data service running on the national grid cluster 08:37:33 uk national that is 08:40:36 LK: why was there standardization 08:41:06 AM: geo data is very special and access control decisions are based on geo location data 08:42:05 AM: also exchange of policy information between actor in geospatial geo-infrastructure where there are autonomous services 08:43:34 LK: can't we have an ontology and integrate with XACML 08:44:16 Ashok: it is not within the XACML framework, for geo you need to add functions that are not part of XACML 08:44:42 ...and in order for all to understand those functions, need for standardization 08:44:58 GN: XACML is designed to be extended that way 08:48:34 AM: doing a demo of the access controled map service 08:54:25 renato? 08:54:44 carine, can you kick renato for the break? 09:53:27 Topic: Joint meeting with Media Annotations WG 09:53:30 see http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-mediaann-minutes.html#item05 10:12:19 renato has joined #pling 10:12:30 topic: JTC1/SC27/WG5 Overview - Jan Schallaboeck 11:42:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-pling-minutes.html caribou 11:43:04 renato has joined #pling 11:46:16 rigo has joined #pling 11:46:25 lkagal has joined #pling 11:47:04 Topic: PrimeLife/PLING interaction 11:47:31 PrimeLife is currently working on use cases and will have requirements done by june 2009 11:47:49 (internal draft in the project end of 2008) 11:48:09 Rigo: we can organize workshops 11:48:42 ... public W3C workshops 11:50:36 Lucy: anyone from PLF going to openID meeting in Mountain View? 11:51:26 lkagal has joined #pling 11:52:02 RRSagent, pointer? 11:52:02 See http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-pling-irc#T11-52-02 11:52:13 ... US conference are focused on data protection more than privacy 11:52:27 ... while european folks are more focused on privacy 11:52:41 ... would be good to have someone from PLF there 11:53:39 Rigo: P3P had to make the bridge 11:54:03 JanS: issue about adoption if we don't do the discussion together 11:57:17 Rigo: we want to keep the smallest complexity + possibilities to extend, to keep it manageable 12:03:52 Topic: Policy-Aware Web discussion 12:04:12 Lalana: everything on the web has a policy 12:04:22 ... we had a project considering Access Control 12:05:00 ... instead of gathering credentials on the server-side, we expect the client-side to gather info and get signature 12:05:12 ... the server can verify the proof 12:05:26 ... now we are continuing that work 12:06:03 ... trying to help users and policy administrators to understand why policies are sometimes violated 12:06:12 ... or why a policy has been chosen 12:06:25 ... reasoning about policies 12:06:41 Rigo: Semantic Web 12:07:05 Lalana: TAMI uses a specific reasoner 12:08:21 ... based on N-Triples + quoting 12:08:48 (TAMI is http://dig.csail.mit.edu/TAMI/) 12:09:56 Renato: what about Rei? 12:10:19 Lalana: Rei is older. It is rules languages expressed in RDF 12:10:53 AIR http://dig.csail.mit.edu/TAMI/ 12:10:57 AIR http://dig.csail.mit.edu/TAMI/2007/AIR 12:11:52 policy language requirement for primelife: feedback on policy explanations and detection where policy matching failed 12:15:40 Lalana: are you interested in benchmarks? 12:16:04 tlr has joined #pling 12:16:14 tlr has changed the topic to: PLING back home 12:16:48 Lalana: a set of policies to measure expression of policies in different languages 12:17:04 Rigo: matching requirements with languages 12:18:30 Renato: many requirements make it impossible to find a language that does all 12:18:57 Lalana: test suite to test reasoners 12:19:17 tlr: there are 2 levels of test suites 12:19:50 ... policy languages should do this, reasoner should do that 12:21:06 Rigo: some people say XACML is too complex 12:21:19 ... you can get infinite requirements from data protection law 12:21:30 ... more complexity, less usability 12:22:07 JanS: it is not really complexity, it is that you can not predefine 12:25:18 jans, rigo: primary vs secondary purpose, impedance mismatch between what law says and what formal languages express. Confusion ensues. 12:25:25 limitation of legal complexity to be expressed in policy languages to avoid killing complexity in the legal language 12:25:29 JanS: unclear how far we can go in a given timeframe 12:26:03 Renato: today most web users are not aware of rules/norms 12:26:05 RI: something is already more than we have today 12:26:32 ... we can explain to people how they can use what is on the web 12:27:23 ... like pushing the media annotations folks to include license in their annotations 12:27:57 JanS: make system admins aware of policies 12:28:14 Renato: in PLF, is SN a big use case? 12:28:22 JanS: yes, one of the 3 main UCs 12:30:13 Renato: any other idea about Policy-Aware Web? 12:31:33 lkagal_ has joined #pling 12:34:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-pling-minutes.html caribou 12:40:08 Renato shows: http://odrl.net/2.0/WD-ODRL-Model.html 12:41:07 topic: Next steps - Social Network XG proposal? 12:41:49 http://www.gmpg.org/xfn/ 12:42:52 http://www.gmpg.org/xfn/intro 12:56:00 ACTION: renato to announce social network XG plans to PLINg list 13:10:00 oshani has joined #pling 13:13:04 There's coffee! 13:15:23 Andreas Matheus interested in formal testing and benchmarking for XACML and geoXACML 13:15:46 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 13:15:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-pling-minutes.html rigo 13:17:52 Contact TAS3 for the reputation systems 13:18:01 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 13:18:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-pling-minutes.html rigo 14:17:09 lkagal has joined #pling 14:33:46 lkagal_ has joined #pling 14:44:18 lkagal has joined #pling 15:52:37 lkagal has joined #pling 16:11:45 lkagal has joined #pling 19:29:14 RRSAgent, bye 19:29:23 RRSAgent, make log public 19:29:26 RRSAgent, bye 19:29:26 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-pling-actions.rdf : 19:29:26 ACTION: renato to announce social network XG plans to PLINg list [1] 19:29:26 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-pling-irc#T12-56-00