IRC log of mw4d on 2008-10-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

07:10:39 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mw4d
07:10:39 [RRSAgent]
logging to
07:10:43 [jeffs]
zakim, good morning
07:10:43 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'good morning', jeffs
07:10:46 [steph]
zakim, make log public
07:10:46 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make log public', steph
07:10:51 [steph]
zakim, make logs public
07:10:51 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make logs public', steph
07:11:00 [steph]
rrsagent, make logs public
07:11:10 [steph]
Topic: introduction
07:11:20 [Norbert]
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07:11:37 [hendry]
scribe hendry
07:11:45 [steph]
scribe: hendry
07:11:56 [hendry]
TOPIC: Introduction
07:12:14 [hendry]
steph: Showing map of FF3 download
07:12:50 [hendry]
.. holes in most of Africa (except South Africa)
07:13:05 [hendry]
.. eastern europe, middle east
07:13:18 [hendry]
.. most people come from developing countries
07:13:35 [hendry]
.. how can the Web help & improve their lives?
07:14:17 [hendry]
.. Digital divide ... we need to connect people to the Web. Idea: better will have better lives as they are better connected to services
07:14:55 [hendry]
s/better will/people will/
07:15:27 [hendry]
.. two approaches: 1) cheap laptops, wifi, wimax (except they not in the field)
07:15:38 [hendry]
2) mobile phones which are deployed
07:16:02 [hendry]
.. end of 2008: 90% of the population will be covered with GSM
07:16:36 [marie]
marie has joined #mw4d
07:18:04 [hendry]
.. example of SMS service to Get the latest market prices
07:18:24 [mib_pnh7rs]
mib_pnh7rs has joined #mw4d
07:18:30 [mib_pnh7rs]
Hello, Sina is online
07:18:55 [hendry]
mib_pnh7rs: welcome :)
07:19:21 [hendry]
steph: further examples of mobile banking
07:20:13 [hendry]
steph: proof-of-concepts people can use simple services
07:21:18 [hendry]
.. there are BUTS, huge disconnections, usability, limited impact, handful of success stories
07:22:53 [hendry]
.. W3C approach is to get people together and discuss (first goal)
07:23:18 [hendry]
.. 2nd goal draft a road map, identify barriers and lower them
07:25:18 [hendry]
.. many ways to deploy Web services: sms, voice, widgets, native applications ...
07:26:12 [hendry]
.. another point is education
07:27:10 [hendry]
.. classes in mobile technologies aren't taught in Universities
07:27:23 [hendry]
jeffs: except we do, to much resistance
07:27:35 [hendry]
hendry: though the Web isn't taught at most universities too
07:28:14 [hendry]
steph: lots of creativity, people think the mobile domain is closed
07:28:32 [Vagner-br]
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07:28:54 [marie]
hendry: well it's not that easy to develop mobile apps...
07:29:18 [marie]
steph: it's easy to develop sms apps
07:29:44 [marie]
hendry: difficult to have them deploy by operators in any case
07:31:32 [hendry]
steph: we should address blocked services: for e.g. walled gardens
07:32:12 [marie]
... this is one of the challenges to address in the roadmap
07:33:08 [hendry]
steph: further issues: usability. E.g. widgets give a task orientated approach, which could be very helpful
07:33:18 [Lauri]
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07:33:35 [Lauri]
07:33:45 [hendry]
Lauri: welcome you're connected :)
07:33:51 [Lauri]
join #mw4d
07:34:21 [hendry]
steph: different approaches
07:35:53 [hendry]
DKA: concerned that widgets are a bit far off. How about using the practices from the MWBP group?
07:37:36 [hendry]
steph: something to look at; widgets on low end phones
07:37:52 [hendry]
DKA: e.g. Opera mini might be offering such an experience
07:38:13 [guibao]
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07:39:02 [hendry]
steph: affordability, good news is that some countries offer free data on prepaid deals
07:40:04 [hendry]
DKA: operators should not be villified
07:41:25 [hendry]
Lauri: dobMobi offer free simple mobile services. Though hosting is a problem. So there ideally should be local servers in respective countries.
07:41:59 [hendry]
Lauri: suggests deploying in Universities as that's where the best connections generally are
07:43:56 [hendry]
Adesina: data services are rising, esp. in Nigeria (60%)
07:44:59 [steph]
07:45:26 [hendry]
Adesina: wifi, wimax are being pushed there. Most african countries have GPRS.
07:45:42 [DKA]
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07:45:48 [hendry]
.. suggests looking at users, health users
07:47:48 [hendry]
Lauri: Education is key; we have examples in Kenya. PC is required to create mobile services.
07:48:03 [mib_pnh7rs]
classify end-users into knowledge workers, consumers and enterprise users
07:48:30 [mib_pnh7rs]
CDMA is becoming a common data service wireless network
07:48:43 [hendry]
.. however there is an Indian company that develops a tool to create Web services from a mobile
07:49:09 [mib_pnh7rs]
Open source software ses to be more affordable and acceptable
07:49:35 [hendry]
Lauri: best phone we manufacturer, can host an httpd service
07:50:31 [mib_pnh7rs]
mHealth and mLearning services are major driver for data and SMS in Africa
07:51:00 [mib_pnh7rs]
mGovernment services are also on the rise n Africa
07:51:02 [hendry]
steph: moving on the Audience who are interested in solving this problem, several NGOs
07:51:38 [hendry]
s/moving on/moving on:/
07:51:55 [hendry]
.. be good to have people from developing counties participating
07:52:08 [hendry]
07:53:37 [hendry]
steph: try to have impact in the short term; describing roadmap
07:54:26 [mib_pnh7rs]
bUT participation from developing country is still limited, we need researchers, developers and telecom operator from these areas to participate
07:54:40 [r12a]
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07:54:52 [hendry]
steph: describes Logistics of group. Group is open. Meeting twice a month by telecon.
07:55:27 [hendry]
steph: we have an active wiki - next workshop in Africa 1Q2009
07:55:54 [mib_pnh7rs]
mib_pnh7rs is Adesina
07:56:16 [marie]
sb: CfP ready by end of Nov.
07:56:31 [hendry]
steph: onto Introductions ...
07:57:47 [hendry]
Lauri: veteran of the mobile industry from Nokia. Founded Nokia forum. Working with dotMobi.
07:57:51 [mib_pnh7rs]
locally developed contents are essential
07:58:50 [hendry]
Lauri: dotMobi provides many tools that could help our work
07:59:49 [hendry]
DKA: from Vodafone, co-chair MWBP, worked with Lauri on dotMobi, lots of experience of mobile Web, runs Mobile Monday London ...
08:00:49 [hendry]
DKA: organising lots of outreach events. Vodafone will propose David Ashbrook [sp?] to officially represent in the group.
08:01:31 [hendry]
Lauri: Dan also had a great book called "Mobile Web for Dummies"
08:03:42 [steph]
Present: Stephane Boyera (W3C), Lauri Hirvonen (Nokia), Dan Appelquist (Vodafone), Adesina Iluyemi (Invited Expert), Marie-Claire Forgue (W3C), Vagner Diniz (, Jeff Sonstein (RIT), Richard Ishida (W3C), Norbert Lindenberg (Yahoo), Kai Hendry (Invited Expert), Xu Guibao (China Academy of Telecom)
08:03:49 [hendry]
mib_pnh7rs: (Adesina) is a dentist by training. Interested in the health angle. Member of NEPAD Council; interested in socio-enomic dev in Africa
08:04:23 [hendry]
08:04:58 [hendry]
marie: W3C member, been involved in mobile web initiative from the start
08:05:21 [steph]
s/W3C member/W3C Team/
08:05:38 [hendry]
.. help producing lots of outreach material
08:06:15 [steph]
Digital World Forum project
08:06:19 [hendry]
.. & events etc.
08:06:22 [Norbert]
Norbert Lindenberg, Yahoo internationalization architect, member W3C Internationalization Core WG
08:07:29 [hendry]
Norbert: Y! has some services in India... though no roadmap in Africa as yet
08:08:39 [hendry]
Vagner: experience in promoting mobile services in Brazil
08:08:55 [mib_pnh7rs]
Adesina is hoping to provide knowledge on contexts, human and organizational issues and telecom constraints in mobile services adoption and diffussion
08:09:02 [hendry]
Vagner-br: concerned with business models with operators
08:10:24 [hendry]
Xu: working within research. In China 210-million mobile users, 60 million mobile web users. Looking to learn.
08:11:31 [hendry]
jeffs: teaches at RIT, mostly Web orientated, member of MWBP, interested in the Web potential on mobiles
08:12:02 [jeffs]
08:12:34 [r12a]
Richard Ishida, W3C Internationalization Activity Lead
08:13:39 [hendry]
hendry: Invited expert with mobile experience from serveral different countries. background in free software and web.
08:14:13 [mib_pnh7rs]
Adesina is a PhD candidate at the University of Portsmouth, UK
08:14:27 [hendry]
r12a: partic. interested in writing systems ..
08:16:06 [hendry]
Lauri: raises concerns over IDN. Nokia still need to implement it. i18n work is very important to this group.
08:21:21 [hendry]
steph: (going through points of agenda/roadmap)
08:22:05 [hendry]
mib_pnh7rs: need to do more outreach
08:23:45 [hendry]
Lauri: we need to promote mobile solutions
08:24:07 [hendry]
steph: need to identify different actors
08:24:33 [hendry]
marie: we should focus on use cases
08:26:06 [hendry]
mib_pnh7rs: agrees with marie
08:26:57 [hendry]
steph: we have not identified a technical gap yet. we can thinking of guidelines
08:27:05 [hendry]
08:29:07 [hendry]
08:56:00 [hendry]
scribe: mib_pnh7rs
08:57:05 [mib_pnh7rs]
aim of the group to develop mobile services for health education ect
08:57:44 [Norbert]
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08:58:03 [mib_pnh7rs]
A report to detail how tog oa bout designing or developing mobile services in developing countries
08:58:55 [mib_pnh7rs]
a handbook for this is the target
08:59:12 [jeffs]
note that Google has made $10m available for "ideas that change the world":
08:59:59 [mib_pnh7rs]
hendry not convince about the a handbook usefulness
09:00:09 [Lauri]
Lauri has joined #mw4d
09:00:36 [mib_pnh7rs]
not convinced about the a handbook usefulness
09:01:14 [jeffs]
09:02:22 [mib_pnh7rs]
09:02:34 [jeffs]
ack jeffs
09:03:59 [mib_pnh7rs]
what is the real focus technology or web?
09:04:09 [jeffs]
act mib
09:04:14 [jeffs]
ack mib
09:06:50 [marie]
09:07:13 [mib_pnh7rs]
Stephane differs on suggestion, the handbook wil focus on expalining technical details on how develop mobile services
09:07:29 [marie]
sms, mobile web, voice, widgets, native (java) apps, etc.
09:07:33 [mib_pnh7rs]
So that developers can make informed decisions on technical issues
09:08:42 [mib_pnh7rs]
NGOs use only SMS, the aim is to promote mobile web
09:09:12 [mib_pnh7rs]
Luari supports book on how to create mobile web
09:09:32 [mib_pnh7rs]
Adesina feels that technical issues are gap identified
09:10:39 [mib_pnh7rs]
limited usage of existing technologies like voice on web and other mobile web services
09:11:46 [jeffs]
Google has made $10m available for "ideas that change the world" for its 10^100 project. See: ... perhaps this might be a source of funding for concrete projects with clear audience/goals/outputs
09:12:01 [mib_pnh7rs]
Application such as voice XML is underutilized
09:13:09 [mib_pnh7rs]
Is SMS web or not? a question bothering W3C
09:13:55 [mib_pnh7rs]
discussion on SMS web on
09:15:34 [mib_pnh7rs]
view on SMS as web is divided
09:15:55 [mib_pnh7rs]
09:16:47 [mib_pnh7rs]
Lauri, SMS has picked up in South Africa
09:17:40 [mib_pnh7rs]
voice services are core to people in developing countries
09:18:15 [mib_pnh7rs]
voice as in reading e-mail in the US
09:18:56 [mib_pnh7rs]
Dan- mobile web now combines SMS and web now
09:19:25 [jeffs]
see for example and
09:19:58 [marie]
dans: look at zipico ->
09:20:04 [marie]
09:21:02 [jeffs]
09:21:12 [marie]
ack mib
09:22:30 [mib_pnh7rs]
Hendry object to SMS as a web paltform
09:23:53 [jeffs]
ack jeffs
09:24:09 [jeffs]
sms as a guaranteed delivery mechanism
09:24:22 [hendry]
if SMS was addressable (URIs) and interfaces between SMS & Web were somewhat stable, I would be happier ...
09:24:28 [jeffs]
sms and other services as simply input and output mechanisms to "feed" the Web
09:24:42 [mib_pnh7rs]
Lauri- Cell broadcast is not supported by mobile operators, local P2P communication
09:24:42 [steph]
steph has joined #mw4d
09:26:32 [mib_pnh7rs]
Appelquist- says Vodafone tested cell broadcast but cost issues discouraged further expansion, web tech. are equally useful
09:26:55 [jeffs]
09:28:54 [mib_pnh7rs]
is the possibility of mobile2mobile on mobile devices by manufacturers
09:29:27 [mib_pnh7rs]
moving on
09:30:02 [mib_pnh7rs]
technical definition of web will be discussed further later-on
09:32:21 [mib_pnh7rs]
the next topic is nature and capability of mobile devices in dev.countries to access web, the question mark is still there?
09:32:39 [mib_pnh7rs]
trying to find the number of moble web users in Africa
09:33:27 [mib_pnh7rs]
information mobile web users in dev.countries is limited and hard to find
09:34:05 [mib_pnh7rs]
stastistics models are questionable
09:34:29 [marie]
what is the resources centre name they are talking about now?
09:34:56 [Lauri]
09:34:57 [mib_pnh7rs]
Vodafone still trying to project mobile web users in dev. countries
09:35:08 [steph]
09:35:17 [steph]
09:35:22 [marie]
merci steph
09:36:11 [mib_pnh7rs]
sales figure are not useful
09:36:37 [mib_pnh7rs]
Hendry wants the group to carry out study to ascertain mobile we users in dev. countries
09:40:21 [mib_pnh7rs]
costs of handset is also major barrier
09:40:37 [mib_pnh7rs]
Age could be a factor in mobile web use in developing countries
09:40:53 [marie]
cost of usage is the key
09:41:33 [mib_pnh7rs]
costs of data services could be a barrier
09:41:37 [marie]
lauri: daily usage figures would be interested to get
09:41:48 [marie]
09:42:15 [guibao]
the content is a key factor
09:42:38 [hendry]
study of the costs of handset & data services would be good too (not just device capability)
09:43:04 [mib_pnh7rs]
costs of handsets and data services are major issues in a mHeath case in Africa
09:43:59 [hendry]
Norbert: a second hand phone might be configured with a European (T-mobile) proxy/gateway. So a 2nd hand Web enabled phone in Africa might not work.
09:45:02 [mib_pnh7rs]
Lauri, costs is an issue in a Nokia experience from Africa
09:46:39 [Norbert]
Several in response to Norbert: web access is usually not tied to device; carrier will route through its own proxy
09:46:51 [mib_pnh7rs]
SIM card applications might be important in developing countries to overcome handset limitations as in the Cell-Life
09:48:53 [mib_pnh7rs]
prior exposure to internet or desktop web might be important in adoption
09:49:13 [mib_pnh7rs]
moving on
09:49:56 [mib_pnh7rs]
Dan to find out about mobile web enabled handset in developing countries, especially in Africa
09:50:28 [mib_pnh7rs]
Jeffs, good point on OLPC mesh networking
09:51:13 [mib_pnh7rs]
Wagner to share report on mGov in Brazil
09:51:30 [DKA]
BBC Digital planet podcasts:
09:52:09 [mib_pnh7rs]
advanced mobile applications from Brazil
09:52:14 [DKA]
09:53:23 [DKA]
q+ to suggest W3C build and provide a definitive database
09:53:44 [mib_pnh7rs]
survey to collect mobile phones with web, but it is going to be expensive
09:55:12 [mib_pnh7rs]
using IMEI to track mobile web enabled phones
09:55:48 [hendry]
09:56:17 [mib_pnh7rs]
collaborative operators on IMEI numbers
09:58:04 [mib_pnh7rs]
IMEI is fit for our purpose for web enabled mobile phone
09:58:14 [mib_pnh7rs]
moving on
09:58:20 [jeffs]
zakim, who is on?
09:58:20 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, jeffs.
09:58:25 [jeffs]
zakim, who is on the call
09:58:25 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the call', jeffs
09:58:34 [marie]
zakim, who's on the phone,
09:58:34 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's on the phone,', marie
09:58:44 [jeffs]
zakim, sometimes I hate you & sometimes I love you
09:58:44 [Zakim]
I don't understand you, jeffs
09:59:54 [guibao]
maybe how to serve the user in developed country is useful to the developing countryies.
10:00:22 [marie]
and who is the user?
10:00:29 [jeffs]
10:00:44 [marie]
unicode support is a big issue
10:00:58 [mib_pnh7rs]
Norbert- thanks jeffs
10:01:09 [guibao]
including the services, security tech
10:01:18 [mib_pnh7rs]
No information mobile web codings
10:01:20 [marie]
hard to get good fonts in phones
10:01:32 [mib_pnh7rs]
Yahoo is trying to work on some codings in India
10:02:02 [hendry]
r12a & Norbert: raises concerns that mobiles typically don't have input methods (in India) and open type fonts
10:02:14 [mib_pnh7rs]
Java script is useful
10:02:50 [hendry]
Norbert: javascript localdate function will probably break as it is often not customised for the locality
10:03:02 [mib_pnh7rs]
local language is an issue with Java script rntime
10:03:23 [mib_pnh7rs]
texts and mobile screen an issue
10:03:42 [mib_pnh7rs]
Lauri, native language important
10:04:17 [mib_pnh7rs]
Nokia experience with local languages in India, with numerous languages is an issue
10:04:23 [jeffs]
zakim, who is here
10:04:23 [Zakim]
jeffs, you need to end that query with '?'
10:04:27 [jeffs]
zakim, who is here?
10:04:27 [Zakim]
sorry, jeffs, I don't know what conference this is
10:04:28 [Zakim]
On IRC I see steph, Lauri, Norbert, r12a, DKA, guibao, Vagner-br, mib_pnh7rs, marie, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeffs, hendry
10:04:44 [hendry]
10:04:47 [Norbert]
q+ norbert
10:05:58 [hendry]
mib_pnh7rs: icons should be considered
10:06:05 [marie]
ack rob
10:06:13 [marie]
ack norb
10:06:13 [mib_pnh7rs]
text inputs using icons will be very useful
10:06:47 [mib_pnh7rs]
content in local language very important
10:07:38 [hendry]
Norbert: example of Y! producting a Vietnamese magazine about how to use the services in step-by-step screenshots
10:07:42 [marie]
10:07:46 [mib_pnh7rs]
fonts and accessibility important
10:07:48 [steph]
10:07:51 [DKA]
ack dka
10:07:51 [Zakim]
DKA, you wanted to suggest W3C build and provide a definitive database
10:08:05 [mib_pnh7rs]
Hendry- dejavu font
10:08:07 [steph]
ack hendry
10:08:08 [marie]
hendry: dejavu fonts open source project
10:08:10 [jeffs]
ack hend
10:08:25 [guibao]
icons are needed,but the bandwidth is a problem,so the answer is on the terminal device?
10:08:45 [mib_pnh7rs]
linking fonts with document already in W3C work
10:08:45 [hendry]
10:08:46 [marie]
10:08:55 [Lauri]
10:09:32 [mib_pnh7rs]
Norbert, special fonts for mobile, aside from desktop is essential
10:09:34 [steph]
ack lauri
10:10:14 [hendry]
Lauri: suggests communicating by video
10:10:50 [mib_pnh7rs]
Nokia experience with graphics and images for education positive
10:12:07 [mib_pnh7rs]
10:13:10 [steph]
ack steph
10:13:12 [steph]
ack mib
10:15:10 [mib_pnh7rs]
local language in written format might be dificult
10:15:42 [mib_pnh7rs]
myths on spoken English rife
10:17:50 [Norbert]
India: about 50 million know and are educated in English; another 50 million understand English but prefer local language; 1 billion does not know English
10:18:08 [mib_pnh7rs]
India- wrapping up
10:19:11 [mib_pnh7rs]
Only educated few in developing countries can speak colonial languages such as English, French, Spanish etc...
10:19:42 [mib_pnh7rs]
Norbert to advice within W3C on this group
10:20:03 [mib_pnh7rs]
within the internalzation group
10:20:38 [mib_pnh7rs]
To connect with Norbert on African and Asian internationalization group
10:21:28 [r12a]
10:23:53 [steph]
action: stephane to connect with african and asian communities on i18n issues through richard/i18n group
10:25:38 [mib_pnh7rs]
Wagner presenting on mGov in Brazil
10:25:44 [steph]
10:25:53 [steph]
10:26:28 [mib_pnh7rs]
Vagner om wireless and mobile infrastructure and devices for mGov in Brazil
10:27:04 [mib_pnh7rs]
74% use mobile in Brazil
10:27:53 [mib_pnh7rs]
21% out of 74% users mobile web devices in Brazil
10:28:08 [steph]
10:28:15 [mib_pnh7rs]
74% = 140 million people
10:28:15 [Norbert]
...only 25% have desktop or notebook computers
10:28:45 [mib_pnh7rs]
link to Vagner PPT-
10:29:07 [jeffs]
10:29:26 [Lauri]
10:29:29 [steph]
10:29:32 [steph]
10:29:37 [steph]
10:29:49 [mib_pnh7rs]
5% of 74% mobile users use devices for internet in Brazil
10:31:01 [Lauri]
The file is 5.74 MB, takes long to open here.
10:32:47 [mib_pnh7rs]
advanced uses of mGov services like income tax return declaration in Brazil
10:33:07 [Lauri]
document has 358 pages !
10:36:36 [jeffs]
bbcnews-tweet "Free text messages to mobile phones will soon be helping encourage South Africans to get tested for HIV."
10:38:04 [Norbert]
Vagner: discussing success stories, starting slide 15
10:38:23 [mib_pnh7rs]
There is a indigenious company in Rwanda that has designed SMS system for customers to pay their energy bills
10:39:49 [Norbert]
Vagner: carnival information, bill payment via post office, ...
10:40:39 [mib_pnh7rs]
check out this mHealth case using PDA in Uganda-
10:42:54 [Norbert]
Vagner: free information for job seekers, agrobusiness via SMS, state of Parana
10:43:07 [mib_pnh7rs]
teacher and SMS in Kenya-
10:44:16 [mib_pnh7rs]
Check out this article also-
10:44:56 [Norbert]
Vagner: issue: services are all free - who pays? business model? information security and privacy?
10:45:01 [marie]
10:47:12 [mib_pnh7rs]
Check this link in Kenya-
10:48:33 [mib_pnh7rs]
I have paper on mHealth service business models in developing countries
10:48:59 [steph]
links ?
10:48:59 [Lauri]
Discussion of the Mobile Internet for Dummies book:
10:50:08 [mib_pnh7rs]
I will e-mail it to you, kindly remind me
10:51:49 [steph]
please mail the list
10:51:55 [steph]
it is interesting to all
10:52:14 [jeffs]
10:54:18 [steph]
ack jeff
10:54:27 [mib_pnh7rs]
10:54:53 [steph]
jeff: good to hear that the services came from the bottom-up pressoin
10:55:07 [mib_pnh7rs]
bottom-up aprroach the driver in Brazil
10:55:21 [Norbert]
Vagner: reasons for early adoption of mobile: popular demand for better services; widely available 3G mobile technology; competition between state governments
10:55:54 [steph]
vagner: killer applications in brazil:health
10:55:59 [steph]
but nobody wants to invest it
10:56:10 [steph]
and particularly delivering it for free
10:56:11 [steph]
ack mib
10:56:26 [jeffs]
ack jefs
10:56:27 [steph]
adesina: who is the driver of innovative services?
10:56:38 [steph]
in africa: a mix of bottom-up and top-down
10:56:45 [jeffs]
10:57:09 [steph]
adesina: ngo is the voice of the bottom of the pyramid
10:58:59 [steph]
10:59:02 [hendry]
11:00:47 [mib_pnh7rs] uses web
11:00:48 [hendry]
hendry: wondering if any services were moving to the Web from SMS?
11:00:57 [hendry]
Vagner-br: nothing has changed over the years
11:02:01 [mib_pnh7rs]
11:02:36 [steph]
11:02:51 [steph]
11:03:36 [guibao]
the key factor is what does the user require and meet it.
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12:59:42 [steph]
rrsagent, make minutes
12:59:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate steph
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