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07:10:43 <jeffs> zakim, good morning
07:10:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'good morning', jeffs
07:10:46 <steph> zakim, make log public
07:10:46 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make log public', steph
07:10:51 <steph> zakim, make logs public
07:10:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make logs public', steph
07:11:00 <steph> rrsagent, make logs public
07:11:10 <steph> Topic: introduction
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07:11:37 <hendry> scribe hendry
07:11:45 <steph> scribe: hendry
07:11:56 <hendry> TOPIC: Introduction
07:12:14 <hendry> steph: Showing map of FF3 download
07:12:50 <hendry> .. holes in most of Africa (except South Africa)
07:13:05 <hendry> .. eastern europe, middle east
07:13:18 <hendry> .. most people come from developing countries
07:13:35 <hendry> .. how can the Web help & improve their lives?
07:14:17 <hendry> .. Digital divide ... we need to connect people to the Web. Idea: better will have better lives as they are better connected to services
07:14:55 <hendry> s/better will/people will/
07:15:27 <hendry> .. two approaches: 1) cheap laptops, wifi, wimax (except they not in the field)
07:15:38 <hendry> 2) mobile phones which are deployed
07:16:02 <hendry> .. end of 2008: 90% of the population will be covered with GSM
07:16:36 <marie> marie has joined #mw4d
07:18:04 <hendry> .. example of SMS service to Get the latest market prices
07:18:24 <mib_pnh7rs> mib_pnh7rs has joined #mw4d
07:18:30 <mib_pnh7rs> Hello, Sina is online
07:18:55 <hendry> mib_pnh7rs: welcome :)
07:19:21 <hendry> steph: further examples of mobile banking
07:20:13 <hendry> steph: proof-of-concepts people can use simple services
07:21:18 <hendry> .. there are BUTS, huge disconnections, usability, limited impact, handful of success stories
07:22:53 <hendry> .. W3C approach is to get people together and discuss (first goal)
07:23:18 <hendry> .. 2nd goal draft a road map, identify barriers and lower them
07:25:18 <hendry> .. many ways to deploy Web services: sms, voice, widgets, native applications ...
07:26:12 <hendry> .. another point is education
07:27:10 <hendry> .. classes in mobile technologies aren't taught in Universities
07:27:23 <hendry> jeffs: except we do, to much resistance
07:27:35 <hendry> hendry: though the Web isn't taught at most universities too
07:28:14 <hendry> steph: lots of creativity, people think the mobile domain is closed
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07:28:54 <marie> hendry: well it's not that easy to develop mobile apps...
07:29:18 <marie> steph: it's easy to develop sms apps
07:29:44 <marie> hendry: difficult to have them deploy by operators in any case
07:31:32 <hendry> steph: we should address blocked services: for e.g. walled gardens
07:32:12 <marie> ... this is one of the challenges to address in the roadmap 
07:33:08 <hendry> steph: further issues: usability. E.g. widgets give a task orientated approach, which could be very helpful
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07:33:35 <Lauri> #mw4d
07:33:45 <hendry> Lauri: welcome you're connected :)
07:33:51 <Lauri> join #mw4d
07:34:21 <hendry> steph: different approaches
07:35:53 <hendry> DKA: concerned that widgets are a bit far off. How about using the practices from the MWBP group?
07:37:36 <hendry> steph: something to look at; widgets on low end phones
07:37:52 <hendry> DKA: e.g. Opera mini might be offering such an experience
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07:39:02 <hendry> steph: affordability, good news is that some countries offer free data on prepaid deals
07:40:04 <hendry> DKA: operators should not be villified
07:41:25 <hendry> Lauri: dobMobi offer free simple mobile services. Though hosting is a problem. So there ideally should be local servers in respective countries.
07:41:59 <hendry> Lauri: suggests deploying in Universities as that's where the best connections generally are
07:43:56 <hendry> Adesina: data services are rising, esp. in Nigeria (60%)
07:44:59 <steph> slides: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/sb_mwbp/
07:45:26 <hendry> Adesina: wifi, wimax are being pushed there. Most african countries have GPRS.
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07:45:48 <hendry> .. suggests looking at users, health users
07:47:48 <hendry> Lauri: Education is key; we have examples in Kenya. PC is required to create mobile services.
07:48:03 <mib_pnh7rs> classify end-users into knowledge workers, consumers and enterprise users
07:48:30 <mib_pnh7rs> CDMA is becoming a common data service wireless network
07:48:43 <hendry> .. however there is an Indian company that develops a tool to create Web services from a mobile
07:49:09 <mib_pnh7rs> Open source software ses to be more affordable and acceptable
07:49:35 <hendry> Lauri: best phone we manufacturer, can host an httpd service
07:50:31 <mib_pnh7rs> mHealth  and mLearning services are major driver for data and SMS in Africa
07:51:00 <mib_pnh7rs> mGovernment services are also on the rise n Africa
07:51:02 <hendry> steph: moving on the Audience who are interested in solving this problem, several NGOs
07:51:38 <hendry> s/moving on/moving on:/
07:51:55 <hendry> .. be good to have people from developing counties participating
07:52:08 <hendry> s/counties/countries
07:53:37 <hendry> steph: try to have impact in the short term; describing roadmap
07:54:26 <mib_pnh7rs> bUT participation from developing country is still limited, we need researchers, developers and telecom operator from these areas to participate
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07:54:52 <hendry> steph: describes Logistics of group. Group is open. Meeting twice a month by telecon.
07:55:27 <hendry> steph: we have an active wiki - next workshop in Africa 1Q2009
07:55:54 <mib_pnh7rs> mib_pnh7rs is Adesina
07:56:16 <marie> sb: CfP ready by end of Nov.
07:56:31 <hendry> steph: onto Introductions ...
07:57:47 <hendry> Lauri: veteran of the mobile industry from Nokia. Founded Nokia forum. Working with dotMobi.
07:57:51 <mib_pnh7rs> locally developed contents are essential
07:58:50 <hendry> Lauri: dotMobi provides many tools that could help our work
07:59:49 <hendry> DKA: from Vodafone, co-chair MWBP, worked with Lauri on dotMobi, lots of experience of mobile Web, runs Mobile Monday London ...
08:00:49 <hendry> DKA: organising lots of outreach events. Vodafone will propose David Ashbrook [sp?] to officially represent in the group.
08:01:31 <hendry> Lauri: Dan also had a great book called "Mobile Web for Dummies"
08:03:42 <steph> Present: Stephane Boyera (W3C), Lauri Hirvonen (Nokia), Dan Appelquist (Vodafone), Adesina  Iluyemi (Invited Expert), Marie-Claire Forgue (W3C), Vagner Diniz (Nic.br), Jeff Sonstein (RIT), Richard Ishida (W3C), Norbert Lindenberg (Yahoo), Kai Hendry (Invited Expert), Xu Guibao (China Academy of Telecom)
08:03:49 <hendry> mib_pnh7rs: (Adesina) is a dentist by training. Interested in the health angle. Member of NEPAD Council; interested in socio-enomic dev in Africa
08:04:23 <hendry> http://nepadcouncil.org/
08:04:58 <hendry> marie: W3C member, been involved in mobile web initiative from the start
08:05:21 <steph> s/W3C member/W3C Team/
08:05:38 <hendry> .. help producing lots of outreach material
08:06:15 <steph> Digital World Forum project http://www.digitalworldforum.eu
08:06:19 <hendry> .. & events etc.
08:06:22 <Norbert> Norbert Lindenberg, Yahoo internationalization architect, member W3C Internationalization Core WG
08:07:29 <hendry> Norbert: Y! has some services in India... though no roadmap in Africa as yet
08:08:39 <hendry> Vagner: experience in promoting mobile services in Brazil
08:08:55 <mib_pnh7rs> Adesina is hoping to provide knowledge on contexts, human and organizational issues and telecom constraints in mobile services adoption and diffussion
08:09:02 <hendry> Vagner-br: concerned with business models with operators
08:10:24 <hendry> Xu: working within research. In China 210-million mobile users, 60 million mobile web users. Looking to learn.
08:11:31 <hendry> jeffs: teaches at RIT, mostly Web orientated, member of MWBP, interested in the Web potential on mobiles
08:12:02 <jeffs> s/orientated/oriented
08:12:34 <r12a> Richard Ishida, W3C Internationalization Activity Lead
08:13:39 <hendry> hendry: Invited expert with mobile experience from serveral different countries. background in free software and web.
08:14:13 <mib_pnh7rs> Adesina is a PhD candidate at the University of Portsmouth, UK
08:14:27 <hendry> r12a: partic. interested in writing systems ..
08:16:06 <hendry> Lauri: raises concerns over IDN. Nokia still need to implement it. i18n work is very important to this group.
08:21:21 <hendry> steph: (going through points of agenda/roadmap)
08:22:05 <hendry> mib_pnh7rs: need to do more outreach
08:23:45 <hendry> Lauri: we need to promote mobile solutions
08:24:07 <hendry> steph: need to identify different actors
08:24:33 <hendry> marie: we should focus on use cases
08:26:06 <hendry> mib_pnh7rs: agrees with marie
08:26:57 <hendry> steph: we have not identified a technical gap yet. we can thinking of guidelines
08:27:05 <hendry> s/thinking/think
08:29:07 <hendry> (break)
08:56:00 <hendry> scribe: mib_pnh7rs 
08:57:05 <mib_pnh7rs> aim of the group to develop mobile services for health education ect
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08:58:03 <mib_pnh7rs> A report to detail how tog oa bout designing or developing mobile services in developing countries
08:58:55 <mib_pnh7rs> a handbook for this is the target
08:59:12 <jeffs> note that Google has made $10m available for "ideas that change the world": http://www.google.com/intl/en/press/annc/20080924_10to100.html
08:59:59 <mib_pnh7rs> hendry not convince about the a handbook usefulness
09:00:09 <Lauri> Lauri has joined #mw4d
09:00:36 <mib_pnh7rs>  not convinced about the a handbook usefulness
09:01:14 <jeffs> q+
09:02:22 <mib_pnh7rs> q+
09:02:34 <jeffs> ack jeffs
09:03:59 <mib_pnh7rs> what is the real focus technology or web?
09:04:09 <jeffs> act mib
09:04:14 <jeffs> ack mib
09:06:50 <marie> =============
09:07:13 <mib_pnh7rs> Stephane differs on suggestion, the handbook wil focus on expalining technical details on how develop mobile services
09:07:29 <marie> sms, mobile web, voice, widgets, native (java) apps, etc.
09:07:33 <mib_pnh7rs> So that developers can make informed decisions on technical issues
09:08:42 <mib_pnh7rs> NGOs use only SMS, the aim is to promote mobile web
09:09:12 <mib_pnh7rs> Luari supports book on how to create mobile web
09:09:32 <mib_pnh7rs> Adesina feels that technical issues are gap identified 
09:10:39 <mib_pnh7rs> limited usage of existing technologies like voice on web and other mobile web services
09:11:46 <jeffs> Google has made $10m available for "ideas that change the world" for its  10^100 project. See: http://www.google.com/intl/en/press/annc/20080924_10to100.html ... perhaps this might be a source of funding for concrete projects with clear audience/goals/outputs
09:12:01 <mib_pnh7rs> Application such as voice XML is underutilized
09:13:09 <mib_pnh7rs> Is SMS web or not? a question bothering W3C
09:13:55 <mib_pnh7rs> discussion on SMS web on
09:15:34 <mib_pnh7rs> view on SMS as web is divided
09:15:55 <mib_pnh7rs> Q+
09:16:47 <mib_pnh7rs> Lauri, SMS has picked up in South Africa
09:17:40 <mib_pnh7rs> voice services are core to people in developing countries
09:18:15 <mib_pnh7rs> voice as in reading e-mail in the US
09:18:56 <mib_pnh7rs> Dan- mobile web now combines SMS and web now
09:19:25 <jeffs> see for example http://www.sahana.lk/ and http://www.ushahidi.com/
09:19:58 <marie> dans: look at zipico -> http://www.zipiko.com/
09:20:04 <marie> s/dans/danA
09:21:02 <jeffs> q+
09:21:12 <marie> ack mib
09:22:30 <mib_pnh7rs> Hendry object to SMS as a web paltform
09:23:53 <jeffs> ack jeffs
09:24:09 <jeffs> sms as a guaranteed delivery mechanism
09:24:22 <hendry> if SMS was addressable (URIs) and interfaces between SMS & Web were somewhat stable, I would be happier ...
09:24:28 <jeffs> sms and other services as simply input and output mechanisms to "feed" the Web
09:24:42 <mib_pnh7rs> Lauri- Cell broadcast is not supported by mobile operators, local P2P communication
09:24:42 <steph> steph has joined #mw4d
09:26:32 <mib_pnh7rs> Appelquist- says Vodafone tested cell broadcast but cost issues discouraged further expansion, web tech. are equally useful
09:26:55 <jeffs> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wilde-sms-uri-16.txt
09:28:54 <mib_pnh7rs> is the possibility of mobile2mobile on mobile devices by manufacturers
09:29:27 <mib_pnh7rs> moving on
09:30:02 <mib_pnh7rs> technical definition of web will be discussed further later-on
09:30:54 <jeffs> http://www.tuaw.com/2007/10/22/mdns-and-caffeine-how-i-got-bonjour-running-on-my-iphone/
09:32:21 <mib_pnh7rs> the next topic is nature and capability of mobile devices in dev.countries to access web, the question mark is still there?
09:32:39 <mib_pnh7rs> trying to find the number of moble web users in Africa
09:33:27 <mib_pnh7rs> information mobile web users in dev.countries is limited and hard to find
09:34:05 <mib_pnh7rs> stastistics models are questionable
09:34:29 <marie> what is the resources centre name they are talking about now?
09:34:56 <Lauri> http://www.getjar.com/software
09:34:57 <mib_pnh7rs> Vodafone still trying to project mobile web users in dev. countries
09:35:08 <steph> summary: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2008Oct/0023.html
09:35:17 <steph> http://stats.getjar.com/statistics/
09:35:22 <marie> merci steph
09:36:11 <mib_pnh7rs> sales figure are not useful
09:36:37 <mib_pnh7rs> Hendry wants the group to carry out study to ascertain mobile we users in dev. countries
09:40:21 <mib_pnh7rs> costs of handset is also major barrier
09:40:37 <mib_pnh7rs> Age could be a factor in mobile web use in developing countries
09:40:53 <marie> cost of usage is the key
09:41:33 <mib_pnh7rs> costs of data services could be a barrier
09:41:37 <marie> lauri: daily usage figures would be interested to get
09:41:48 <marie> s/interested/interesting
09:42:15 <guibao> the content is a key factor
09:42:38 <hendry> study of the costs of handset & data services would be good too (not just device capability)
09:43:04 <mib_pnh7rs> costs of handsets and data services are major issues in a mHeath case in Africa
09:43:59 <hendry> Norbert: a second hand phone might be configured with a European (T-mobile) proxy/gateway. So a 2nd hand Web enabled phone in Africa might not work.
09:45:02 <mib_pnh7rs> Lauri, costs is an issue in a Nokia experience from Africa
09:46:39 <Norbert> Several in response to Norbert: web access is usually not tied to device; carrier will route through its own proxy
09:46:51 <mib_pnh7rs> SIM card applications might be important in developing countries to overcome handset limitations as in the Cell-Life -www.celllife.org.za
09:48:53 <mib_pnh7rs> prior exposure to internet or desktop web might be important in adoption
09:49:13 <mib_pnh7rs> moving on
09:49:56 <mib_pnh7rs> Dan to find out about mobile web enabled handset in developing countries, especially in Africa
09:50:28 <mib_pnh7rs> Jeffs, good point on OLPC mesh networking
09:51:13 <mib_pnh7rs> Wagner to share report on mGov in Brazil
09:51:30 <DKA> BBC Digital planet podcasts: http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/digital_planet.shtml
09:52:09 <mib_pnh7rs> advanced mobile applications from Brazil
09:52:14 <DKA> q?
09:53:23 <DKA> q+ to suggest W3C build and provide a definitive database
09:53:44 <mib_pnh7rs> survey to collect mobile phones with web, but it is going to be expensive
09:55:12 <mib_pnh7rs> using IMEI to track mobile web enabled phones
09:55:48 <hendry> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMEI
09:56:17 <mib_pnh7rs> collaborative operators on IMEI numbers
09:58:04 <mib_pnh7rs> IMEI is fit for our purpose for web enabled mobile phone
09:58:14 <mib_pnh7rs> moving on
09:58:20 <jeffs> zakim, who is on?
09:58:20 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, jeffs.
09:58:25 <jeffs> zakim, who is on the call
09:58:25 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the call', jeffs
09:58:34 <marie> zakim, who's on the phone,
09:58:34 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's on the phone,', marie
09:58:44 <jeffs> zakim, sometimes I hate you & sometimes I love you
09:58:44 <Zakim> I don't understand you, jeffs
09:59:54 <guibao> maybe how to serve the user in developed country is useful to the developing countryies.
10:00:22 <marie> and who is the user?
10:00:29 <jeffs> s/countryies/countries
10:00:44 <marie> unicode support is a big issue
10:00:58 <mib_pnh7rs> Norbert- thanks jeffs
10:01:09 <guibao> including the services, security tech
10:01:18 <mib_pnh7rs> No information mobile web codings
10:01:20 <marie> hard to get good fonts in phones
10:01:32 <mib_pnh7rs> Yahoo is trying to work on some codings in India
10:02:02 <hendry> r12a & Norbert: raises concerns that mobiles typically don't have input methods (in India) and open type fonts
10:02:14 <mib_pnh7rs> Java script is useful
10:02:50 <hendry> Norbert: javascript localdate function will probably break as it is often not customised for the locality
10:03:02 <mib_pnh7rs> local language is an issue with Java script rntime
10:03:23 <mib_pnh7rs> texts and mobile screen an issue
10:03:42 <mib_pnh7rs> Lauri, native language important
10:04:17 <mib_pnh7rs> Nokia experience with local languages in India, with numerous languages is an issue
10:04:23 <jeffs> zakim, who is here
10:04:23 <Zakim> jeffs, you need to end that query with '?'
10:04:27 <jeffs> zakim, who is here?
10:04:27 <Zakim> sorry, jeffs, I don't know what conference this is
10:04:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see steph, Lauri, Norbert, r12a, DKA, guibao, Vagner-br, mib_pnh7rs, marie, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeffs, hendry
10:04:44 <hendry> q+
10:04:47 <Norbert> q+ norbert
10:05:58 <hendry> mib_pnh7rs: icons should be considered
10:06:05 <marie> ack rob
10:06:13 <marie> ack norb
10:06:13 <mib_pnh7rs> text inputs using icons will be very useful
10:06:47 <mib_pnh7rs> content in local language very important
10:07:38 <hendry> Norbert: example of Y! producting a Vietnamese magazine about how to use the services in step-by-step screenshots
10:07:42 <marie> q?
10:07:46 <mib_pnh7rs> fonts and accessibility important
10:07:48 <steph> q+
10:07:51 <DKA> ack dka
10:07:51 <Zakim> DKA, you wanted to suggest W3C build and provide a definitive database
10:08:05 <mib_pnh7rs> Hendry- dejavu font 
10:08:07 <steph> ack hendry
10:08:08 <marie> hendry: dejavu fonts open source project
10:08:10 <jeffs> ack hend
10:08:25 <guibao> icons are needed,but the bandwidth is a problem,so the answer is on the terminal device?
10:08:45 <mib_pnh7rs> linking fonts with document already in W3C work
10:08:45 <hendry> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dejavu_fonts
10:08:46 <marie> http://sourceforge.net/projects/dejavu
10:08:55 <Lauri> q+
10:09:32 <mib_pnh7rs> Norbert, special fonts for mobile, aside from desktop is essential
10:09:34 <steph> ack lauri
10:10:14 <hendry> Lauri: suggests communicating by video
10:10:50 <mib_pnh7rs> Nokia experience with graphics and images for education positive
10:12:07 <mib_pnh7rs> q+
10:13:10 <steph> ack steph
10:13:12 <steph> ack mib
10:15:10 <mib_pnh7rs> local language in written format might be dificult
10:15:42 <mib_pnh7rs> myths on spoken English rife
10:17:50 <Norbert> India: about 50 million know and are educated in English; another 50 million understand English but prefer local language; 1 billion does not know English
10:18:08 <mib_pnh7rs> India- wrapping up
10:19:11 <mib_pnh7rs> Only educated few in developing countries can speak colonial languages such as English, French, Spanish etc...
10:19:42 <mib_pnh7rs> Norbert to advice within W3C on this group
10:20:03 <mib_pnh7rs> within the internalzation group
10:20:38 <mib_pnh7rs> To connect with Norbert on African and Asian internationalization group
10:21:28 <r12a> s/internalzation/internationalization/
10:23:53 <steph> action: stephane to connect with african and asian communities on i18n issues through richard/i18n group
10:25:38 <mib_pnh7rs> Wagner presenting on mGov in Brazil
10:25:44 <steph> s/
10:25:53 <steph> s/Wagner/Vagner.
10:26:28 <mib_pnh7rs> Vagner om wireless and mobile infrastructure and devices for mGov in Brazil
10:27:04 <mib_pnh7rs> 74% use mobile in Brazil
10:27:53 <mib_pnh7rs> 21% out of 74% users mobile web devices in Brazil 
10:28:08 <steph> http://www.cetic.br.tic/2007/indicadores-cgibr-2007.pdf
10:28:15 <mib_pnh7rs> 74% = 140 million people
10:28:15 <Norbert> ...only 25% have desktop or notebook computers
10:28:45 <mib_pnh7rs> link to Vagner PPT-http://www.cetic.br.tic/2007/indicadores-cgibr-2007.pdf
10:29:07 <jeffs> http://www.cetic.br/tic/2007/indicadores-cgibr-2007.pdf
10:29:26 <Lauri> Corection: http://www.cetic.br/tic/2007/indicadores-cgibr-2007.pdf
10:29:29 <steph> http://www.cetic.br/tic/2007/indicadores-cgibr-2007.pdf
10:29:32 <steph> :)
10:29:37 <steph> sorry
10:29:49 <mib_pnh7rs> 5% of 74% mobile users use devices for internet in Brazil
10:31:01 <Lauri> The file is 5.74 MB, takes long to open here.
10:32:47 <mib_pnh7rs> advanced uses of mGov services like income tax return declaration in Brazil
10:33:07 <Lauri> document has 358 pages !
10:36:36 <jeffs> bbcnews-tweet "Free text messages to mobile phones will soon be helping encourage South Africans to get tested for HIV." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7688268.stm
10:38:04 <Norbert> Vagner: discussing success stories, starting slide 15
10:38:23 <mib_pnh7rs> There is a indigenious company in Rwanda that has designed SMS system for customers to pay their energy bills
10:39:49 <Norbert> Vagner: carnival information, bill payment via post office, ...
10:40:39 <mib_pnh7rs> check out this mHealth case using PDA in Uganda-http://pda.healthnet.org/
10:42:54 <Norbert> Vagner: free information for job seekers, agrobusiness via SMS, state of Parana
10:43:07 <mib_pnh7rs> teacher and SMS in Kenya-http://tilz.tearfund.org/Publications/Footsteps+71-80/Footsteps+71/Using+mobile+phones+-+Training+teachers+with+text+messages.htm
10:44:16 <mib_pnh7rs> Check out this article also-http://www.wlv.ac.uk/PDF/cidt-article20.pdf
10:44:56 <Norbert> Vagner: issue: services are all free - who pays? business model? information security and privacy?
10:45:01 <marie> q?
10:47:12 <mib_pnh7rs> Check this link in Kenya-http://thdblog.wordpress.com/2007/03/01/sms-and-text-messaging-for-health/
10:48:33 <mib_pnh7rs> I have paper on mHealth service business models in developing countries
10:48:59 <steph> links ?
10:48:59 <Lauri> Discussion of the Mobile Internet for Dummies book: http://mobileinternet.typepad.com/dummies/
10:50:08 <mib_pnh7rs> I will e-mail it to you, kindly remind me
10:51:49 <steph> please mail the list
10:51:55 <steph> it is interesting to all
10:52:14 <jeffs> q+
10:54:18 <steph> ack jeff
10:54:27 <mib_pnh7rs> q+
10:54:53 <steph> jeff: good to hear that the services came from the bottom-up pressoin
10:55:07 <mib_pnh7rs> bottom-up aprroach the driver in Brazil
10:55:21 <Norbert> Vagner: reasons for early adoption of mobile: popular demand for better services; widely available 3G mobile technology; competition between state governments
10:55:54 <steph> vagner: killer applications in brazil:health
10:55:59 <steph> but nobody wants to invest it
10:56:10 <steph> and particularly delivering it for free
10:56:11 <steph> ack mib
10:56:26 <jeffs> ack jefs
10:56:27 <steph> adesina: who is the driver of innovative services?
10:56:38 <steph> in africa: a mix of bottom-up and top-down
10:56:45 <jeffs> s/pressoin/pressure
10:57:09 <steph> adesina: ngo is the voice of the bottom of  the pyramid
10:58:59 <steph> q?
10:59:02 <hendry> q+
11:00:47 <mib_pnh7rs> www.celllife.org.za uses web
11:00:48 <hendry> hendry: wondering if any services were moving to the Web from SMS?
11:00:57 <hendry> Vagner-br: nothing has changed over the years
11:02:01 <mib_pnh7rs> http://www.cell-life.org/
11:02:36 <steph> http://www.w3.org/2008/02/MS4D_WS/papers
11:02:51 <steph> http://www.w3.org/2008/02/MS4D_WS/papers/unicef-w3c-presentation.html
11:03:36 <guibao> the key factor is what does the user require and meet it.
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12:59:42 <steph> rrsagent, make minutes
12:59:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-mw4d-minutes.html steph
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