IRC log of wai-wcag on 2008-10-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:48:14 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
19:48:14 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-wai-wcag-irc
19:48:19 [Ben]
RRSAgent, do not start a new log
19:48:25 [Ben]
RRSAgent, make log world
19:48:30 [Ben]
zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
19:48:30 [Zakim]
ok, Ben; I see WAI_WCAG()3:00PM scheduled to start 48 minutes ago
19:48:36 [Ben]
Meeting: WCAG Weekly Telecon
19:49:21 [Ben]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2008OctDec/0022.html
19:49:30 [Ben]
Chair: Gregg_Vanderheiden, Loretta_Guarino_Reid
19:49:35 [Ben]
ScribeOptions: -scribeOnly
19:52:04 [Ben]
Regrets: Tim_Boland, Christophe_Strobbe, Roberto_Scano
19:52:15 [cshelly]
does anyone know if there's a Zakim number in France?
19:52:47 [Ben]
agenda+ Announcements, Questions, and Updates
19:52:59 [Ben]
agenda+ Additional Issues for 23 Oct 2008
19:53:13 [Ben]
agenda+ Miscellaneous Proposals for 21 Oct 2008
19:53:24 [Ben]
agenda+ Advance to Proposed Recommendation?
19:54:00 [Ben]
cynthia, it's in the agenda +33.4.89.06.34.99 (France)
19:58:58 [rellero]
rellero has joined #wai-wcag
19:59:08 [bengt]
bengt has joined #wai-wcag
19:59:37 [Sofia]
Sofia has joined #wai-wcag
19:59:46 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has now started
19:59:54 [Zakim]
+??P0
20:00:00 [Zakim]
+??P2
20:00:03 [bengt]
zakim, ??P0 is BengtFarre
20:00:03 [Zakim]
+BengtFarre; got it
20:00:05 [Zakim]
-BengtFarre
20:00:05 [Zakim]
+BengtFarre
20:00:11 [Zakim]
+Alex_Li
20:00:15 [Ben]
zakim, ??P2 is Ben_Caldwell
20:00:15 [Zakim]
+Ben_Caldwell; got it
20:00:24 [Sofia]
zakim, Alex_Li has Sofia_Celic
20:00:24 [Zakim]
+Sofia_Celic; got it
20:00:25 [Zakim]
+??P3
20:00:36 [rellero]
zakim, ??P3 is Roberto_Ellero
20:00:36 [Zakim]
+Roberto_Ellero; got it
20:00:37 [Zakim]
+Andi_Snow_Weaver
20:00:44 [Ben]
zakim, Ben has Gregg_Vanderheiden
20:00:44 [Zakim]
'Ben' is ambiguous, Ben
20:00:46 [greggvanderheiden]
greggvanderheiden has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:53 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald
20:01:00 [Ben]
zakim, Ben_Caldwell has Gregg_Vanderheiden
20:01:00 [Zakim]
+Gregg_Vanderheiden; got it
20:01:06 [Andi]
Andi has joined #wai-wcag
20:01:15 [Zakim]
+??P6
20:01:32 [Ben]
zakim, ??P6 is Katie_Haritos-Shea
20:01:32 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea; got it
20:01:51 [Zakim]
+MichaelC
20:02:06 [David_MacDonald]
David_MacDonald has joined #wai-wcag
20:03:21 [Zakim]
+Cannes
20:03:36 [Zakim]
+ +1.301.668.aaaa
20:03:43 [Loretta]
Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
20:04:01 [Ben]
zakim, +1.301.668.aaaa is Bruce_Bailey
20:04:01 [Zakim]
+Bruce_Bailey; got it
20:04:18 [Zakim]
+Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:05:53 [Zakim]
-MichaelC
20:06:01 [Zakim]
+Cooper
20:06:03 [Zakim]
-Roberto_Ellero
20:06:10 [Ben]
zakim, Cannes is Cynthia_Shelley
20:06:10 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelley; got it
20:06:20 [Zakim]
-Cooper
20:07:09 [David_MacDonald]
scribe: David_MacDonald
20:07:13 [Zakim]
+??P3
20:07:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.219.aabb
20:08:01 [awk]
awk has joined #WAI-WCAG
20:09:03 [Zakim]
-Michael
20:09:12 [Zakim]
+Cooper
20:10:32 [Ben]
zakim, close agendum 1
20:10:32 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Announcements, Questions, and Updates, closed
20:10:33 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:10:34 [Zakim]
2. Additional Issues for 23 Oct 2008 [from Ben]
20:10:37 [Ben]
zakim, take up agendum 3
20:10:37 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Miscellaneous Proposals for 21 Oct 2008" taken up [from Ben]
20:10:39 [Zakim]
-Andi_Snow_Weaver
20:11:50 [Zakim]
+Andi_Snow_Weaver
20:11:55 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:12:22 [rellero]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is Roberto_Ellero
20:12:22 [Zakim]
+Roberto_Ellero; got it
20:12:25 [Ben]
scribe: awk
20:18:16 [Ben]
zakim, Cynthia_Shelley is Cynthia_Shelly
20:18:16 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly; got it
20:21:30 [awk]
TOPIC: Issue 2662: Conforming Alternate Version, Note 4
20:23:41 [Loretta]
ack cy
20:24:35 [Loretta]
ack br
20:26:13 [Loretta]
ack a
20:28:48 [David_MacDonald]
q+
20:30:28 [David_MacDonald]
q-
20:30:47 [awk]
Issue is tabled.
20:32:21 [Andi]
q+
20:33:00 [Loretta]
q+
20:33:44 [Andi]
q-
20:33:50 [Zakim]
+??P11
20:33:55 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
20:34:28 [Ben]
zakim, ??P11 is probably Cynthia_Shelly
20:34:28 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly?; got it
20:34:59 [Loretta]
q-
20:36:29 [awk]
Topic: Retain 5:1 Contrast Ratio for SC 1.4.3 Contrast (Minimum)
20:42:59 [Ben]
q+
20:43:09 [Loretta]
ack b
20:53:30 [Zakim]
-Roberto_Ellero
21:01:29 [cshelly]
cshelly has joined #wai-wcag
21:02:44 [Makoto]
Makoto has joined #wai-wcag
21:03:23 [cshelly]
q+ to say this was supposed to deal with default presentation, not configurable colors
21:04:36 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
21:04:40 [Makoto]
zakim, [IPcaller] is Makoto_Ueki
21:04:40 [Zakim]
+Makoto_Ueki; got it
21:06:54 [Loretta]
4.5: Andrew, Andi, Bruce, Alex
21:07:34 [Loretta]
5: David, Ben, Katie, Sofia, Gregg, Cynthia
21:07:44 [Loretta]
No opinion: Michael, Bengt, Loretta
21:13:14 [awk]
RESOLUTION: keep the contrast ratio at 5:1
21:13:34 [cshelly]
q+
21:13:56 [awk]
Topic: Clarification of SC 3.3.5 (Help)
21:13:58 [greggvanderheiden]
q+
21:15:41 [Loretta]
ack c
21:15:41 [Zakim]
cshelly, you wanted to say this was supposed to deal with default presentation, not configurable colors and to
21:15:55 [Loretta]
ack g
21:16:51 [greggvanderheiden]
q+
21:19:30 [awk]
Resolution: Add note to definition of context-sentitive help. "Note: Clear labels can act as context-sensitive help."
21:19:55 [awk]
Topic: Issue 2671: Statement of partial conformance
21:22:13 [awk]
RESOLUTION: accepted as amended
21:22:25 [awk]
Topic: Issue 2672: Described in a way that users can identify
21:28:30 [awk]
RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended
21:29:00 [awk]
Topic: Issue 2673: Partial conformance and conformance requirement 5
21:30:19 [David_MacDonald]
q+
21:30:29 [greggvanderheiden]
ack g
21:30:31 [greggvanderheiden]
ack d
21:35:10 [awk]
Resolution: Acepted as amended
21:36:38 [awk]
Topic: Issue 2674: Must links to other media warn users?
21:41:00 [Loretta]
Clicking on links or tabs in a tab control is activating the control, not changing the setting of that control.
21:43:29 [awk]
Resolution: Accepted as amended
21:43:44 [awk]
Topic: Issue 2675: Interference with screen reader
21:44:16 [awk]
RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended
21:44:28 [awk]
Topic: Issue 2676: Must captions be resizable?
21:47:19 [cshelly]
q+
21:47:59 [Loretta]
ack c
21:49:48 [awk]
RESOLUTION: accepted as amended
21:50:22 [awk]
Topic: implementation feedback on SC 1.2.6 Sign Language
21:50:57 [awk]
RESOLUTION: keep SC 1.2.6
21:51:06 [awk]
TOPIC: Clarification of SC 2.4.1 (Bypass Blocks)
21:51:45 [awk]
RESOLUTION: retain original language
21:52:01 [awk]
Topic: Question on SC 3.1.4 (Abbreviations)
21:52:32 [awk]
Resolution: leave open
21:53:45 [cshelly]
link to other survey, please?
21:53:59 [awk]
Topic: Proposed Rewording of SC 1.4.7 Low or No Background Audio
21:55:50 [awk]
RESOLUTION: accepted as amended
21:56:01 [awk]
Topic: Issue 2624: URI vs URL
22:07:48 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
22:08:45 [Ben]
zakim, who is on the phone?
22:08:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see BengtFarre, Ben_Caldwell, Alex_Li, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Bruce_Bailey, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Cooper, +1.617.219.aabb, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Cynthia_Shelly?,
22:08:48 [Zakim]
... Makoto_Ueki
22:08:48 [Zakim]
Alex_Li has Sofia_Celic
22:08:49 [Zakim]
Ben_Caldwell has Gregg_Vanderheiden
22:10:24 [David_MacDonald]
David_MacDonald has joined #wai-wcag
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+David_MacDonald
22:11:13 [awk]
RESOLUTION: revert to old decision and keep URI
22:11:58 [Zakim]
-BengtFarre
22:12:11 [awk]
Topic: Accessibility Support of Uses of Technologies
22:12:59 [awk]
Topic: Review draft implementation report
22:16:22 [MichaelC]
q+
22:16:42 [MichaelC]
q+ to say I don't know what change to make to the implementation report re Andi's comment
22:17:10 [Loretta]
Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
22:20:12 [David_MacDonald]
q+
22:20:16 [cshelly]
q+
22:21:30 [MichaelC]
q+ to say Judy wrote these questions not to guide discussion with Steve & Tim, or as a FAQ for them, but to help us frame our thoughts. We shouldn't necessarily remove any of them; feedback from the group helpful.
22:21:36 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea.a
22:21:38 [MichaelC]
ack me
22:21:38 [Zakim]
MichaelC, you wanted to say I don't know what change to make to the implementation report re Andi's comment and to say Judy wrote these questions not to guide discussion with Steve
22:21:42 [Zakim]
... & Tim, or as a FAQ for them, but to help us frame our thoughts. We shouldn't necessarily remove any of them; feedback from the group helpful.
22:21:44 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
22:21:51 [MichaelC]
queue jumper!
22:22:16 [MichaelC]
q+ to get back in queue
22:31:00 [MichaelC]
q-
22:33:29 [awk]
Topic: Accessibility Supported Q&A
22:33:38 [Loretta]
ack d
22:35:46 [Loretta]
Reports have been mailed out. Has everyone received the email?
22:35:53 [Ben]
q+ to say, "uses seem more granular. techniques often make use of multiple uses."
22:36:02 [Loretta]
ack cs
22:37:20 [Loretta]
ack b
22:37:20 [Zakim]
Ben, you wanted to say, "uses seem more granular. techniques often make use of multiple uses."
22:38:45 [cshelly]
Q: what is the relationship between techniques and uses?
22:39:39 [David_MacDonald_]
David_MacDonald_ has joined #wai-wcag
22:40:05 [cshelly]
A: uses are the subset of techniques that rely on on accessibility support in user agents and AT to provide functionality to users with disabilities. Accessibility supported uses are those uses that actually work with a
22:40:08 [cshelly]
with AT
22:40:42 [MichaelC]
q+ to say the silverlight one looks ok structurally, just needs more of the uses filled in with information about how the use actually works
22:41:16 [MichaelC]
q+ to say the PDF one looks ok in principle but I see no information about what the technology-specific techniques are, so would not be able to determine "here's what I can do" from the info I see there
22:41:54 [MichaelC]
q+ to say the PDF one also refers to uses of test files but can't see the files, so it's hard to evaluate that aspect
22:42:10 [MichaelC]
ack me
22:42:10 [Zakim]
MichaelC, you wanted to say the silverlight one looks ok structurally, just needs more of the uses filled in with information about how the use actually works and to say the PDF
22:42:13 [Zakim]
... one looks ok in principle but I see no information about what the technology-specific techniques are, so would not be able to determine "here's what I can do" from the info I
22:42:18 [Zakim]
... see there and to say the PDF one also refers to uses of test files but can't see the files, so it's hard to evaluate that aspect
22:44:46 [MichaelC]
q+ to say I will favor including them in the report if my issues are addressed, just want to point out that they would be static and soon outdated and you'd have to be ok with that (we'll say as much in the report)
22:45:13 [MichaelC]
ack me
22:45:13 [Zakim]
MichaelC, you wanted to say I will favor including them in the report if my issues are addressed, just want to point out that they would be static and soon outdated and you'd have
22:45:16 [Zakim]
... to be ok with that (we'll say as much in the report)
22:46:13 [Loretta]
q?
22:46:14 [greggvanderheiden]
q?
22:47:24 [David_MacDonald]
q+
22:50:19 [Loretta]
ack da
22:50:19 [greggvanderheiden]
ack d
23:00:55 [cshelly]
A: uses are the subset of techniques that rely on on accessibility support in user agents and AT to provide functionality to users with disabilities. Accessibility supported uses are those uses that actually work with a
23:02:56 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly?
23:05:37 [cshelly]
cshelly has joined #wai-wcag
23:05:55 [cshelly]
fargin' Orange... lost my connection. did you get teh updated text?
23:06:17 [greggvanderheiden]
is this it?
23:06:19 [greggvanderheiden]
A: uses are the subset of techniques that rely on on accessibility support in user agents and AT to provide functionality to users with disabilities. Accessibility supported uses are those uses that actually work with a
23:06:21 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
23:06:27 [cshelly]
nope, that was the old text
23:06:30 [cshelly]
I'll try again...
23:06:35 [greggvanderheiden]
didn’t get the new text then
23:08:39 [cshelly]
A: techniques are ways of makign content accessible to users with disabilities, including but not limited to the techniques documented in the WCAG 2.0 Techniques document. Uses are the subset of techniques that rely on accessibily support in user agents and AT in order to provide that functionality. Accessibility supported uses are those uses that have been tested and proven to work with assistive technology.
23:12:53 [awk]
RESOLUTION: Incorporate MSFT and Adobe accessibility support reports, with the indication that they are 'in progress'.
23:15:14 [cshelly]
yes, "shown" is better
23:15:47 [awk]
scribe:
23:18:55 [Zakim]
- +1.617.219.aabb
23:19:34 [MichaelC]
scribe: David_MacDonald
23:20:31 [Loretta]
Note 1: For the purpose of determining conformance, an alternative to part of a page's content is considered part of the page when the alternative content is obtainable directly from the page, e.g., a long description.
23:22:49 [Zakim]
+Andrew_Kirkpatrick
23:28:26 [Loretta]
Note 1: For the purpose of determining conformance, alternatives to content are considered part of a page when the alternatives can be obtained directly from the page.
23:35:15 [Zakim]
+Alex_Li.a
23:35:42 [Loretta]
Note 1: For the purpose of determining conformance, alternatives to content are considered part of a page when the alternatives can be obtained directly from the page.
23:37:58 [MichaelC_]
MichaelC_ has joined #wai-wcag
23:38:12 [Zakim]
+Cooper.a
23:38:46 [Zakim]
-Cooper
23:41:16 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: accept ammended conformance, Section 2 Note 1: For the purpose of determining conformance, alternatives to content are considered part of a page when the alternatives can be obtained directly from the page.
23:41:59 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: accept 2662 as amended
23:43:05 [Zakim]
-Alex_Li
23:45:31 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: accept Q & A document as amended.
23:46:06 [Ben]
zakim, close this item
23:46:06 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
23:46:07 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
23:46:08 [Zakim]
2. Additional Issues for 23 Oct 2008 [from Ben]
23:46:11 [Ben]
zakim, close agendum 2
23:46:11 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Additional Issues for 23 Oct 2008, closed
23:46:12 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
23:46:13 [Zakim]
4. Advance to Proposed Recommendation? [from Ben]
23:46:18 [Ben]
zakim, take up agendum 4
23:46:18 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Advance to Proposed Recommendation?" taken up [from Ben]
23:46:59 [Loretta]
We request to transition WCAG 2.0 to proposed recommendation.
23:48:04 [Zakim]
-Andrew_Kirkpatrick
23:48:16 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: Request to transition WCAG 2.0 to Proposed Recommendation
23:54:03 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: Mutual appreciation day approved
23:54:25 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
23:54:26 [Zakim]
-Alex_Li.a
23:54:27 [Zakim]
-Cooper.a
23:54:28 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
23:54:28 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
23:54:29 [Zakim]
-Makoto_Ueki
23:54:29 [Zakim]
-Andi_Snow_Weaver
23:54:31 [Zakim]
-Ben_Caldwell
23:54:32 [Zakim]
-Loretta_Guarino_Reid
23:54:34 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea.a
23:54:36 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has ended
23:54:37 [Ben]
RRSAgent, pointer?
23:54:37 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-wai-wcag-irc#T23-54-37
23:54:38 [Zakim]
Attendees were BengtFarre, Sofia_Celic, Roberto_Ellero, Andi_Snow_Weaver, David_MacDonald, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Katie_Haritos-Shea, MichaelC, Bruce_Bailey, Loretta_Guarino_Reid,
23:54:41 [Zakim]
... Cooper, Michael, +1.617.219.aabb, Cynthia_Shelly, Cynthia_Shelly?, Makoto_Ueki, [IPcaller], Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Alex_Li, Cooper.a
23:54:42 [greggvanderheiden]
greggvanderheiden has left #wai-wcag
23:56:14 [Ben]
yep
23:56:43 [Ben]
Present: Bengt_Farre, Sofia_Celic, Roberto_Ellero, Andi_Snow_Weaver, David_MacDonald, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Katie_Haritos-Shea, MichaelC, Bruce_Bailey, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell, Michael_Cooper, Cynthia_Shelly, Makoto_Ueki, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Alex_Li
23:56:45 [Ben]
RRSAgent, bye
23:56:45 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items