IRC log of ua on 2008-10-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

06:31:10 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
06:31:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to
06:31:12 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
06:31:14 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
06:31:14 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see WAI_UAWG()2:00AM already started
06:31:15 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
06:31:15 [trackbot]
Date: 21 October 2008
06:31:19 [jeanne]
zakim, call room_136
06:31:21 [Zakim]
ok, jeanne; the call is being made
06:31:21 [Zakim]
06:31:57 [jeanne]
zakim, Room_136 has Jan, jeanne, jallan
06:31:57 [Zakim]
+Jan, jeanne, jallan; got it
06:33:25 [jeanne]
present: Jim_Allan, Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Kelly_Ford, Mark_Hakkinen
06:33:29 [jeanne]
zakim, code?
06:33:29 [Zakim]
the conference code is 8224 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), jeanne
06:35:00 [KFord]
rrsagent, make minutes
06:35:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate KFord
06:36:14 [KFord]
Chair: Jim, Judy
06:36:24 [KFord]
rrsagent, make minutes
06:36:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate KFord
06:37:58 [KFord]
scribe: kford
06:39:30 [Jan]
Jan has joined #ua
06:39:40 [Jan]
New Draft:
06:41:26 [KFord]
06:41:39 [KFord]
rrsagent, make minutes
06:41:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate KFord
06:42:46 [jeanne]
present+ Anna_Zhueng(observer)
06:42:58 [KFord]
rrsagent, make minutes
06:42:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate KFord
06:44:33 [KFord]
JAllan: Goes over plan for the day.
06:45:06 [KFord]
JAllan: Hard stop at 5:30P. One hour before stop and priortize action items with timelines and such.
06:47:32 [KFord]
group continues to look at newest draft at
06:49:02 [KFord]
Topic: PRINCIPLE 3: Ensure that the user interface is perceivable
06:49:17 [KFord]
rrsagent, make minutes
06:49:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate KFord
06:50:48 [KFord]
JAllan: Anyone have any general problems with the wording?
06:50:55 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #ua
06:50:56 [KFord]
none heard.
06:52:08 [KFord]
Now looking at Guideline 3.1 Provide text alternatives for non-text components
06:53:03 [KFord]
group is ok with general wording.
06:53:38 [KFord]
JR: I wanted to comment on something we found in ATAG. The item one that says you need to cover the accessibility of your platform is likely to cover this.
06:55:25 [KFord]
Jeanne: I wanted to ensure we covered the accessibility of documentation.
06:56:21 [KFord]
06:57:03 [KFord]
From my mail 10. Principle 3, in particular 3.1 needs to be more clear. Iíve mentioned on a few calls how the user interface does a lot visually to convey meaning. I donít think these guidelines give enough detail on what needs to happen or the expectation around accessibility. User agents today do a lot to convey state from security to page functionality with unique UI elements. AT jumps around loads of hoops today to convey this info.
06:58:22 [jallan]
KF: should keep, need to be a bit explicit, to make sure the point gets across
06:59:46 [KFord]
07:00:37 [KFord]
More discussion about whether 3.1 is covered in guideline 1.
07:04:24 [jallan]
KF: user interface everything is labeled and available programatically
07:04:45 [jallan]
... the UA could do more to make the information available.
07:07:32 [jallan]
JA: 3.1.1 does not say make information available programatically
07:07:43 [jallan]
JR: should be in Principal 2
07:08:30 [jallan]
JA: information is available passively, the user must request the security state, rss feed, etc.
07:09:04 [KFord]
kford more discussion about this.
07:09:13 [jallan]
... do we need some SC to allow option to provide overview of current states in the UA
07:09:25 [KFord]
JR: I think principle two would cover most of this.
07:09:31 [jallan]
JS: this is needed for low vision people.
07:09:48 [KFord]
kford: kford and Jeanne think principle three needs to be strengthened.
07:09:54 [jallan]
... ARIA has section on passive alerts, perhaps we need something like that
07:10:44 [KFord]
JAllan: we've talked a lot about screen readers. Visually you glance around.
07:11:05 [KFord]
JAllan: if this is all available programatically, isn't it then the AT's job to grab this info.
07:12:47 [jallan]
KF: what is the state, what is important, the UA has gone through the effort to provide an icon. How is the user to decide what is important
07:13:44 [jallan]
... I am missing the gestalt of the information
07:14:43 [KFord]
Action: kford jeanne to add guideline in 3.1 around improving perceivability
07:14:43 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - kford
07:15:49 [jeanne]
action: KF to KF and JS to write proposal for Guideline 3.1 improving perceivability of user interface and passive status.
07:15:49 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-48 - KF and JS to write proposal for Guideline 3.1 improving perceivability of user interface and passive status. [on Kelly Ford - due 2008-10-28].
07:17:21 [jallan]
JR: add to examples, kinds of important state information
07:17:22 [KFord]
JR: I think we need to add to examples, some of what kford was saying about important state in modern browsers.
07:18:09 [KFord]
JAllan: 3.1.1 needs to reveal info programatically and there needs to be some mechanism to provide a overview of important state items.