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06:38:56 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-mediafrag-irc
06:38:58 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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06:39:00 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
06:39:00 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()3:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
06:39:01 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
06:39:01 <trackbot> Date: 20 October 2008
06:39:40 <raphael> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/FirstF2FAgenda
06:39:49 <raphael> Chairs: Erik, Raphael
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07:07:36 <raphael> zakim, call IlesC 
07:07:36 <Zakim> I am sorry, raphael; I do not know a number for IlesC
07:08:11 <raphael> zakim, call Iles_C 
07:08:11 <Zakim> ok, raphael; the call is being made
07:08:12 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()3:00AM has now started
07:08:14 <Zakim> +Iles_C
07:11:04 <nessy> Meeting openend 9:08
07:11:16 <nessy> round of introductions
07:11:20 <nessy> Raphael
07:11:22 <nessy> Erik
07:11:36 <raphael> scribenick: raphael
07:12:00 <raphael> s/round of introductions/TOPIC: 1. Round of introductions
07:12:22 <raphael> Davy: also in Multimedia Lab, IBBT, Ghent (BE)
07:13:07 <raphael> Silvia: involved in MPEG-7, MPEG-21, developed Annodex (annotation format for ogg media files)
07:13:36 <raphael> ... start my own start up for measuring the audience of video on the web + consultant for Mozilla
07:13:47 <raphael> ... developped the TemporalURI specification, 6 years ago
07:14:55 <raphael> Guillaume Olivrin, South Africa, focus on accessibility, how do you attach specific semantics to parts of media
07:15:29 <raphael> Daniel Park, Samsung, co-chair of the Media Annotation, focus on IPTV (background in wireless networking)
07:16:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
07:17:51 <raphael> Andy Heath, Open University, UK, background on e-learning, but develop far more general technologies, focus on accessibility
07:18:57 <raphael> ... experience in standards such as LOOM, DC, SKOM
07:19:45 <raphael> s/LOOM/LOM
07:19:53 <raphael> s/SKOM/SKORM
07:20:50 <raphael> Colm Doyle: Blinkx
07:23:02 <raphael> Larry Masinter: Adobe, experience in co-chairing HTTP group, focus on acquisition of metadata
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07:26:22 <raphael> Khang Cham, Samsung, focus on IPTV
07:27:11 <raphael> Yves: W3C team contact, expertise in protocols, web services
07:28:37 <nessy> http://www.w3.org/2008/01/media-fragments-wg.html
07:29:13 <nessy> ... working group charter
07:31:11 <raphael> Larry: important to define first requirements for why these URIs will be used for
07:34:16 <raphael> ... it might happen that you can not satisfy all the requirements with a URI, don't put that out of scope now
07:34:33 <raphael> TOPIC: 2. Use Cases Discussion (Part 1)
07:34:44 <raphael> Photo Use Case: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/Use_Cases_%26_Requirements#Photobook_UC
07:35:57 <raphael> Slides at: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/meetings/2008-10-20-f2f_cannes/photobook_UC.pdf
07:36:03 <raphael> Erik goes through the slides
07:40:03 <raphael> Erik: take parts of images ... and assemble them together in a slideshow
07:40:23 <raphael> Guillaume: unclear the value of the fragments here
07:40:35 <raphael> ... I understand fragment as taking a part of a large thing
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07:59:19 <raphael> Larry: is it worth at all to look at Spatial URIs? Is it for doing partial retrieval?
07:59:23 <raphael> Raphael: mention maps applications
07:59:26 <raphael> Larry: but they are intereactive!
07:59:30 <raphael> Raphael: mention multi-resolution images, image industry has huge need and will to expose high resolution version of images
07:59:33 <raphael> Larry: they do have JPEG2000 and protocols
07:59:36 <raphael> Silvia: SMIL has ellaborate on the need for spatial fragments
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07:59:59 <raphael> Jack: important needs in the SMIL community and SVG ... image maps, pan zoom, cropping
08:00:02 <raphael> Erik: continues the presentation, after temporally assemble parts of images into a slideshow, assemble two parts of an image into a new one (stich)
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08:00:05 <raphael> ... Existing technologies: RSS and Atom for the playlist generation
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08:00:08 <raphael> ... W3C SMIL: XML-based markup language, requires a SMIL player
08:00:11 <raphael> ... MPEG-21: Part 17 for fragment identification of MPEG Ressources, client-side processing ... pseudo playlist
08:00:14 <raphael> ... MPEG-A: MAF (Media Application Format) that combines MPEG technologies
08:00:17 <raphael> ... XSPF (spiff): XML Shareable Playlist Format: Xiph Community
08:00:19 <raphael> ... Discussion: is it out of scope or not? specific use cases around? other technologies around?
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08:00:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
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08:02:42 <raphael>  Guillaume: unclear the value of the fragments here
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08:02:51 <raphael> ... I understand fragment as taking a part of a large thing
08:02:59 <raphael> Silvia: we are mainly looking at audio and videos files, but a video is a sequence of images
08:03:24 <raphael> Larry: there are different servers and clients
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08:04:32 <raphael> Silvia: one way to look at a criteria is: is it a pure client-side issue or server-side + client-side problems?
08:05:16 <raphael> Larry: even if it is only a client-side issue, it might be worth to do some standardisation
08:05:29 <raphael> ... the main point of still images fragment is the interactivity
08:09:02 <raphael> Raphael: is interactivity the key interest in spatial fragment
08:09:39 <raphael> Larry: there is a lot of work in this area, would recommend to focus on the temporal issue
08:10:07 <raphael> ... it is also a good exercise to look at the out-of-scope use case, help to shape the scope
08:12:30 <raphael> Jack: URI is good because it is the web, the client is not necessarily aware of the time dimension
08:13:32 <raphael> ... HTML has already a notion of Area, so don't encode it in a URI
08:14:51 <raphael> Larry: need to be carreful on URIs, resources, representations
08:16:22 <raphael> ... example of an image: need to decode it, take the parts, re-encode it
08:16:32 <raphael> ... JPEG2000 might have a direct way to do that
08:17:41 <raphael> Guillaume: create mosaic, collage of parts of media
08:17:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
08:19:56 <raphael> Yves: it depends if the transformation needs to be on the client or not
08:20:57 <raphael> Jack: be carreful, to not put SVG in a URI :-)
08:21:20 <raphael> ... good balance on which processing can be on client side, and what is worth to put in a URL
08:22:05 <raphael> ... is it better to have the processing in the URL?
08:23:23 <raphael> Erik: we question again the interest of the spatial fragment
08:25:01 <raphael> Silvia: is it a question of the size of the media? Large: worth to have fragment, Small: not worth
08:26:33 <raphael> Larry: define what do you mean by media
08:27:18 <raphael> ... it is reasonable to limit yourself to videos
08:27:42 <raphael> Silvia: SMIL and Flash are interactive media, not necessarily one timeline
08:28:10 <raphael> ... we focus on a resource with one timeline
08:29:34 <raphael> ... there is a whole sweat of codecs issues
08:31:32 <raphael> Larry: define markers in videos
08:33:21 <Yves> time... what is the reference of time for a video, embedded time code? 0 for the start?
09:15:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
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09:16:37 <raphael> Coffee break
09:16:42 <raphael> Map Use Case: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/Use_Cases_%26_Requirements/Map_Application_UC
09:16:57 <raphael> scribenick: erik
09:18:30 <erik> Raphael: Map UC Description
09:18:36 <nessy> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/Use_Cases_%26_Requirements
09:20:08 <erik> Raphael: Annotation is key
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09:22:23 <Kangchan> Question : What is relation between Geolocation Working Group(with http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/) and Web Map Services 
09:23:29 <erik> Raphael: UC examples using Yahoo, Google & Microsoft
09:26:33 <erik> Jack: what we see here are URI's for the applications, not images
09:27:46 <erik> Raphael will look deeper into different specs over the next couple of weeks for this Map UC
09:29:43 <erik> Davy & Jack: is this a valid UC? will our spatial URL adressing scheme will be used by Maps Applications? 
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09:31:03 <erik> Raphael: as Larry said this morning, out-of-scope UC's are valid to come up with our final WG's scope 
09:32:42 <guillaume> Must document the out of scope UC to explain why it is out of scope.
09:32:50 <erik> Sylvia: there might be a UC when we are talking about really large images (cfr. medical images in really high resolutions)
09:34:37 <erik> Sylvia: having a way to get a subpart of such a big image is nice to have, but implementation is something different ... a lot of complications, certainly on some server-side implimentations
09:37:26 <erik> Guillaume: codec issues not to be underestimated, have a nice adressing scheme vs. server-side complexity
09:39:09 <erik> Sylvia: should look further than just server-side complexity, solutions for certain codecs will come around eventually if needed
09:39:59 <erik> Jack: pratical issues vs. fundamental issues have to be taken into account within this group
09:40:50 <erik> Jack: media fragments are needed because some things can not e expressed today
09:41:37 <erik> s/not e/not be
09:43:06 <erik> Raphael: is it worth of having an overview of the TimedText WG?
09:45:58 <nessy> Guillaume: URI fragment identifier for text/plain: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5147.txt
09:46:07 <Yves> (multi-resolution formats, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FlashPix is a good example of a single file containing multiple resolutions, maybe better than the map application)
09:48:33 <erik> Raphael: Zoomify is good example of UC of very big images (life sciences) using fragments
09:50:57 <erik> Raphael: task of this group to insure interoperability of different standards? (eg. MPEG-21 URI to SVG)
09:51:14 <erik> s/insure/ensure
09:53:05 <erik> Sylvia: defining the mappings should be out-of-scope for this WG
09:53:45 <erik> Jack: worthwile is testing our scheme to the others out there
09:54:19 <erik> Sylvia: last thing to do & should be straight forward by then if we did a good job
09:55:01 <erik> Raphael: what about spatial dimension?
09:55:36 <erik> Sylvia: temporal adressing need is biggest, but spatial adressing need is also valid
09:57:32 <raphael> TOPIC: 3. Use Case Discussion (Part 2)
09:57:49 <erik> Sylvia presenting the Media Annotation UC
09:57:52 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/Use_Cases_%26_Requirements#Media_Annotation_UC
10:00:27 <raphael> Annotation can be attached to the full media resource or to fragments of media resources
10:00:37 <raphael> s/Annotation/Silvia: Annotation
10:00:52 <raphael> scribenick: raphael
10:01:21 <raphael> Sylvia: annotations to fragment is relevant for this group
10:03:05 <raphael> Guillaume: can the structure of the video be represented in the URI
10:03:53 <raphael> Silvia: difference between the representation of the fragment and its semantics
10:06:08 <spark3> if necessary, what about adding a new UC (naming use case for fragment) into the Media Annotation WG UC ?
10:07:42 <raphael> Silvia: drawing on the board
10:15:01 <erik> Jack: there's only 1 timeline for timed media
10:16:14 <erik> Jack: there's only 1 coordinate system for spatial media
10:17:42 <erik> Jack: Annotation UC is important because we're reasoning on a higher abstraction level
10:18:42 <raphael> Jacck: loves that use case since it is purely about fundamental description and indexing of a media
10:18:48 <raphael> s/Jacck/Jack
10:19:44 <raphael> Silvia: goes through the advantages of a possible URI scheme for media fragments
10:21:41 <raphael> ... actually motivating the need for media fragments
10:22:00 <raphael> ... shows the picture at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Image:Video_Fragment_Linking.jpg
10:22:54 <raphael> ... jumps into the track problems
10:23:14 <raphael> ... there is actually 3 dimensions: space, time and track
10:27:03 <raphael> ... temporalURI just deal with cropping, no track awareness
10:32:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
10:33:53 <raphael> Jack: rename this use case into 'Anchoring'
10:34:00 <raphael> ... annotation = RDF community
10:34:08 <raphael> ... structuring = SMIL community
10:35:38 <raphael> Silvia: agree to rename it into Media Anchor Definition
10:35:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
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12:00:42 <raphael> Lunch break
12:00:56 <raphael> Media Delivery Use Case: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/Use_Cases_%26_Requirements#Media_Delivery_UC
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12:05:27 <raphael> scribenick: Jack
12:05:38 <Yves> Scribe: Jack
12:05:40 <jackjansen> scribenick: jackjansen
12:05:43 <raphael> scribenick: jackjansen
12:06:02 <jackjansen> zakim, who is the scribe?
12:06:02 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, jackjansen.
12:06:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-mediafrag-minutes.html Yves
12:06:29 <jackjansen> TOPIC: Media Delivery use case
12:11:02 <raphael> Davi going through the slide at: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/meetings/2008-10-20-f2f_cannes/media_delivery_UC.pdf
12:11:10 <raphael> s/Davi/Davy
12:17:00 <jackjansen> Various: (discussing slide 3, # vs. ? or ,): Can we use # as the only user-visible marker and use http-ranges or something similar? 
12:18:19 <raphael> Silvia drawing a communication channel between UA and servers
12:22:16 <raphael> Discussion about the use of the "hash" character
12:27:40 <raphael> Yves: use case is to extract a frame of a video, and creates a new image (so a new resource), use a '?'
12:28:04 <raphael> ... use case is to keep the context, use a '#'
12:29:19 <raphael> Summary: there is use cases for both, should be further discussed tomorrow morning
12:29:32 <jackjansen> summary: there are use cases for both. We will get back to the subject tomorrow.
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12:30:39 <guillaume> dejà vue
12:31:03 <raphael> Davy: explains the MPEG-21 Fragment identification
12:31:18 <raphael> ... use of the '#', but no delivery protocol
12:33:43 <raphael> ... mention also the proposal of Dave Singer: UA get first N bytes representing the headers with timing and bytes offset information of the media resource
12:34:39 <raphael> ... goes through an explanation of MPEG-21: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/State_of_the_Art#MPEG-21_Part_17:_Fragment_Identification_of_MPEG_Resources_.28Davy_.2F_Silvia.29
12:34:50 <raphael> ... 4 schemes
12:35:29 <raphael> ... ffp for the track
12:35:37 <raphael> ... offset for bytes range
12:38:05 <jackjansen> all: discussing #mp() scheme
12:38:07 <raphael> ... mp for specifying the temporal or spatial fragment (only for MPEG mime-type resources)
12:38:32 <jackjansen> Siylvia: whoever controls the mimetype also controls what is after the # in a url
12:38:50 <jackjansen> Jack: is surprised, but pleasantly so.
12:39:45 <jackjansen> s/Siylvia/sylvia
12:42:07 <raphael> Davy: the 4th scheme is 'mask' (only for MPEG resources)
12:48:24 <raphael> Jack: seems they structure the video resource and point towards this structure
12:49:19 <raphael> Raphael: how many user agents can understand this syntax?
12:49:31 <jackjansen> all: none, that we know of
12:49:41 <raphael> Davy: i'm not aware of ... altough there is a referenced implementation
12:50:47 <raphael> Larry: http is not necessarily the best protocol to transport video
12:52:35 <Yves> in video, it depends if you want exact timing, control of the lag, and in that case HTTP is not the best choice
12:54:03 <raphael> Silvia: I would say that most of the videos is transported over http
12:59:35 <raphael> ... RTP and RTSP have their own fragments, we should learn from them
13:00:27 <raphael> ... if they do not satisfy all our requirements, we can feed them so they extend the use of fragments in these protocols
13:00:44 <raphael> Davy: goes through TemporalURI
13:02:24 <raphael> ... this is the only that specifies a delivery protocol over http
13:06:45 <jackjansen> Silvia: Real used to allow something similar to temporal URLs
13:06:57 <jackjansen> Jack: thinks it may be part of the .ram files
13:07:34 <jackjansen> Guillaume: Flash allows doc author to export subparts by name, these can then be accessed with url#name
13:08:44 <jackjansen> Davy: continues with slide 6, http media delivery
13:08:52 <guillaume> Guillaume: Flash could also embed internal links in movie attached to certain frames. Once compiled with specific option, fragment of the Flash movie could be accessed using #
13:14:01 <raphael> Silvia: draw the four-way handshake
13:30:01 <raphael> ... 1st exchange: User requests http://www.example.com/resource.ogv#t=20-30
13:30:35 <raphael> ... UA does a GET <uri stripped of hash>, Range: time 20-30
13:31:53 <raphael> ... Server send back a Response 200, with the content-range: time 20-30 + content-type + ogg header + time-range bytes 50000-20000
13:32:14 <raphael> ... (needs to create a new http header, 'time-range')
13:32:33 <raphael> Raphael: can we use content-range: bytes ... ?
13:33:48 <raphael> ... UA does a GET <URI strriped of the hash>, Range x bytes: 5000-20000
13:34:35 <raphael> ... Server send back a Response 200, with the content-range bytes + the cropped data
13:39:29 <raphael> Silvia: it is not implemented yet as far as I know
13:39:41 <raphael> ... discussion based on a lot of discussions with proxies vendors
13:41:34 <raphael> Davy: could we apply the same four-way handshake with RTSP?
13:42:14 <raphael> ... RTSP specifies a Range Header, similar to the HTTP byte range mechanism
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13:43:09 <raphael> ... RTSP could support temporal fragments by a two-way handshake (using Range header)
13:43:25 <raphael> ... Problem: spatial fragments are not supported!
13:44:03 <raphael> Jack: the spatial problem is kind of orthogonal
13:44:44 <raphael> ... the spatial fragment will not be about bytes range
13:44:59 <raphael> Davy: cropping is more complex in images
13:46:42 <raphael> Jack: you're right, I can create a non-continous quicktime movie
13:48:17 <raphael> ... problem is it is not necessarily possible to generate a byte range from a time range
13:49:03 <raphael> Silvia: a single byte range
13:51:56 <jackjansen> all: the non-contiguous ranges may occur more often than we like. But maybe
13:52:20 <jackjansen> ... we can get away with ignoring them (because all relevant formats also have a contiguous form).
13:52:29 <jackjansen> ... need to discuss after the break.
13:53:17 <jackjansen> raphael: suggest coffee break
13:53:39 <guillaume> or need to coalesce
13:56:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
13:56:27 <jackjansen> Larry: please decouple representation of how you refer to fragments form he implementations
13:57:16 <jackjansen> ... Als think about embedded metadata: if the original has a copyright statement, do you get it wth every fragment?
13:57:22 <jackjansen> s/Als/Also
13:58:16 <jackjansen> Sylvia: (on prev subject): wonders whether http can do multiple byte ranges
13:58:27 <jackjansen> Larry: yes, I think so, with multipart
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14:30:06 <erik> rssagent, draft minutes
14:31:08 <erik> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:31:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-mediafrag-minutes.html erik
14:33:48 <davy> scribenick: davy
14:34:11 <davy> Media Delivery UC
14:34:56 <davy> s/Delivery/Linking
14:35:40 <davy> raphael discusses the description written by Michael on the wiki
14:36:56 <davy> ... 3 things: bookmarking, playlists, and interlinking multimedia
14:37:11 <davy> silvia: definition of playlists is out of scope
14:37:35 <davy> guillaume: playlist is about presentation
14:43:28 <davy> raphael: regarding interlinked: temporal URIs can be described in RDF (RDF doc describing an audio file)
14:45:39 <davy> ... difference between URI and RDF (or SMIL, or ...): you need to parse the metadata
14:46:19 <davy> ... RDF description of time segment could be replaced by a temporal URI
14:49:22 <davy> silvia: interlinking multimedia is already covered in other UCs
14:53:54 <davy> Video Browser UC
14:54:21 <davy> silvia: large media files introduces special challenges
14:54:47 <davy> ... requirement for server-side processing
14:55:35 <davy> ... dynamic creation of thumbnails through URI mechanism
14:56:19 <davy> guillaume: link to PNG or GIF
14:56:28 <davy> ... provide a preview function of the resource
14:57:30 <davy> ... trivial: get all the I-frames of a video resource
14:57:36 <davy> ... use them as thumbs
15:00:26 <davy> ... thumbnail extraction is quite easy
15:00:49 <davy> silvia, jack: not so trivial, might be processing-intensive
15:02:07 <davy> silvia: it should be possible to point to one single frame with the URI scheme
15:03:11 <davy> jack: URI scheme does not know that frame is 'the' thumbnail
15:03:32 <davy> s/does/should
15:04:21 <davy> guillaume: you can have multiple thumbs per resource
15:05:27 <davy> raphael: URI scheme can point to a frame, but does not have knowledge about thumbs
15:06:50 <davy> raphael: should we be able to address in terms of frames?
15:07:09 <davy> guillaume: no, too coding-specific
15:07:38 <davy> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:07:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-mediafrag-minutes.html davy
15:08:23 <davy> silvia: previews of images?
15:08:35 <davy> ... preview is then a lower resolution image
15:08:49 <davy> guillaume: that is processing
15:09:57 <davy> ... mostly, previews are already part of the media resource
15:10:51 <davy> ... hence lower image resolutions are out of scope
15:14:45 <davy> jack: not too far?
15:15:01 <davy> ... is a preview embedded in a resource still a fragment?
15:18:17 <davy> guillaume: compare it with tracks
15:18:26 <davy> ... preview is just another track
15:19:23 <davy> raphael: we put this in mind and make a decision later
15:21:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-mediafrag-minutes.html davy
15:24:11 <davy> silvia: previews are another sort of tracks
15:24:32 <davy> raphael: should we also to be able to address metadata within the headers?
15:26:19 <davy> silvia: it is not a common property of all the formats to have previews, therefore, it is not a candidate to be standardized
15:28:08 <davy> raphael: after first fase of the WG: report the current limitations
15:28:31 <davy> ... and wait for feedback
15:28:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-mediafrag-minutes.html davy
15:29:05 <davy> Moving Point Of Interest UC
15:29:12 <davy> raphael: complex UC
15:30:04 <davy> ... should be for the second phase
15:30:55 <davy> jack: if this ever to be going to used at server-side?
15:31:03 <davy> ... if not, it is out of scope
15:31:42 <davy> raphael: you can share the link of the moving region
15:37:45 <davy> erik: delivery to mobile devices is a use case introduced by the public flemish broadcaster
15:38:23 <davy> jack: there is no reason to use URIs for that purpose, use metadata
15:39:57 <davy> raphael: it is like concatenating spatial fragments over time
15:45:33 <davy> guillaume: we are addressing points over space or time
15:46:02 <davy> raphael: refer to HTML image maps
15:51:25 <davy> raphael: region, interval can be defined by a combination of points
15:51:42 <davy> ... you need more than one point
15:53:50 <davy> Issues
15:54:08 <davy> raphael: we will discuss this tomorrow
15:54:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-mediafrag-minutes.html davy
17:05:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Iles_C, in IA_MFWG()3:00AM
17:05:02 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()3:00AM has ended
17:05:04 <Zakim> Attendees were Iles_C
17:35:20 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mediafrag
19:30:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-mediafrag-minutes.html Yves
20:24:54 <nessy> nessy has joined #mediafrag