IRC log of xhtml on 2008-10-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:44:26 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
13:44:27 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:44:36 [oedipus]
hello, roland, i hope everything is going better...
13:45:11 [RolandMerrick]
RolandMerrick has changed the topic to:
13:45:17 [RolandMerrick]
13:45:24 [RolandMerrick]
Zakim, this will be XHTML2
13:45:24 [Zakim]
ok, RolandMerrick; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start now
13:45:29 [oedipus]
13:45:42 [oedipus]
13:45:54 [Roland]
Roland has joined #xhtml
13:46:38 [oedipus]
Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
13:46:38 [Zakim]
IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
13:46:43 [oedipus]
ScribeNick: oedipus
13:46:45 [Zakim]
13:47:02 [Roland]
Zakim, Roland_Merrick is Roland
13:47:02 [Zakim]
+Roland; got it
13:47:16 [Steven]
I am scribing Forms FtF; will attend here on IRC
13:47:37 [Zakim]
13:47:41 [Zakim]
13:47:41 [Zakim]
13:47:46 [ShaneM]
zakim, McCarron is ShaneM
13:47:46 [Zakim]
+ShaneM; got it
13:47:51 [oedipus]
13:47:55 [Roland]
Chair: Roland
13:48:09 [Roland]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:48:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Roland
13:48:26 [Roland]
rrsagent, make log public
13:48:50 [Roland]
Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
13:48:51 [Zakim]
13:49:20 [alessio]
alessio has joined #xhtml
13:49:24 [oedipus]
Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Weekly Call
13:49:37 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:49:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate oedipus
13:50:02 [oedipus]
regrets+ Mark_Birbeck
13:50:21 [oedipus]
regrets+ Tina_Holcombe
13:50:30 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:50:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate oedipus
13:52:38 [oedipus]
13:53:07 [oedipus]
13:53:14 [alessio]
zakim, code?
13:53:14 [Zakim]
the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), alessio
13:54:35 [Zakim]
13:54:42 [alessio]
zakim, ??P44 is Alessio
13:54:42 [Zakim]
+Alessio; got it
13:55:18 [oedipus]
TOPIC: Open Actions in Tracker
13:55:36 [oedipus]
RM: 3 against me - haven't gotten to them yet
13:55:41 [oedipus]
13:55:43 [alessio]
aloha gregory! :)
13:55:47 [oedipus]
RM: Shane - any reply
13:55:58 [oedipus]
SM: pinged tag and forgot forms WG
13:56:06 [oedipus]
RM: saw comments from noah on list
13:56:19 [oedipus]
13:56:46 [oedipus]
SM: created and closed action 5
13:57:06 [oedipus]
SM: phrased response as "working group hasn't reviewed..." wasn't couched as WG response,
13:57:19 [oedipus]
RM: if no one objects to SM's post, propose we accept
13:57:22 [oedipus]
AC: plus 1
13:57:26 [oedipus]
GJR: plus 1
13:57:42 [oedipus]
13:58:34 [Steven]
14:00:12 [oedipus]
TOPIC: Clearing Out Old Actions and Issues
14:00:22 [oedipus]
RM: how are we managing errata to 1.1
14:00:37 [oedipus]
SM: haven't had any -- probably a placeholder from XML Events document
14:01:06 [oedipus]
[fyi] closed and documented WG approval:
14:01:17 [oedipus]
SM: don't want to update XML Events 1 spec at this point
14:01:28 [oedipus]
RM: can log as erratum - if becomes necessary, can fold in
14:01:49 [oedipus]
SM: W3C Pub Rules - requirement that errata be rolled into updated recs after certain period of time
14:02:11 [oedipus]
SM: reason we tend not to do much with errata - rather have people move on to newer recs rather than use old
14:02:36 [oedipus]
RM: useful if get query on this again - keeping track; don't want to lose it
14:02:55 [oedipus]
GJR: could create issue - XHTML Policy on Errata
14:03:09 [oedipus]
SM: link to an errata document - in datespace
14:03:15 [ShaneM]
errata is at
14:03:35 [oedipus]
SM: no errata in it -- could put in editorial things as errata and check off our list
14:03:45 [oedipus]
SM: don't have write-permissions to edit errata
14:04:04 [oedipus]
ACTION: Shane - add 2 items to errata for XML Events 1
14:04:04 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-6 - - add 2 items to errata for XML Events 1 [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-22].
14:04:41 [oedipus]
RM: next one goes back to XML Events, but XML Events 2
14:04:57 [oedipus]
RM: not sure what done about comments -- think dealt with some, status?
14:05:15 [oedipus]
SM: suggesting rename attributes -- we can't
14:05:41 [oedipus]
SM: want to use attribute names that would collide with existing global attribute names, which we can't do
14:05:54 [oedipus]
RM: put these in as items in action 3
14:06:14 [oedipus]
14:06:39 [oedipus]
RM: will deal with first 2 items with my action
14:07:08 [oedipus]
SM: avoiding topic due to security concerns
14:07:27 [oedipus]
RM: will discuss why
14:07:43 [oedipus]
RM: asked to look at HTML5 positioning -- SP still needs to write up that
14:08:01 [oedipus]
SM: assign action in trackbot
14:08:44 [oedipus]
ACTION: Steven - Steven to write strawman on XHTML2/HTML5 wording
14:08:44 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-7 - - Steven to write strawman on XHTML2/HTML5 wording [on Steven Pemberton - due 2008-10-22].
14:09:00 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:09:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate oedipus
14:09:18 [oedipus]
14:09:50 [oedipus]
RM: editing newly assigned action item
14:10:11 [oedipus]
RM: M12n status - follow up activities? XHTML 1.1 SE?
14:10:25 [Roland]
Topic: M12N Status
14:10:26 [Steven]
All our XHTML Specs should be PERd
14:10:45 [Steven]
, tho'if we want to include @target in 1.1, it may be more than a PEr
14:10:46 [Steven]
not sure
14:11:01 [oedipus]
SM: said would send out note on what tasks should be -- steven has chimed in and is right - just need to update all XHTML specs - can't put @target in 1.1 -- needs to go into 1.2
14:11:06 [oedipus]
GJR: same with @lang
14:11:22 [ShaneM]
we agreed to leave content model of 1.1 alone for the PER
14:11:24 [oedipus]
RM: waiting for @lang proposal
14:11:39 [Steven]
OK, wasn't sure of that
14:11:40 [oedipus]
RM: 1.1 Basic? what does "all of it" mean?
14:11:48 [Steven]
Some people won't be pleased
14:12:03 [ShaneM]
XHTML 1.1, XHTML Basic 1.1, XHTML Print, XHTML + RDFa
14:12:28 [oedipus]
RM: Shane can you create proposal
14:12:49 [oedipus]
SM: plan is to produce updated drafts with schema -- will point to from all drafts will be ready by face2face
14:13:29 [oedipus]
ACTION: Shane - produce updated drafts with schema by face2face
14:13:29 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-8 - - produce updated drafts with schema by face2face [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-22].
14:13:31 [ShaneM]
Steven: I know that some people won't be pleased, but W3C mgt team said months ago that we could not make substantive changes to 1.1 - and that we should do it in 1.2
14:13:38 [oedipus]
rssagent, please make minutes
14:13:51 [Steven]
ack that
14:13:52 [oedipus]
14:14:01 [oedipus]
14:14:10 [oedipus]
14:14:24 [oedipus]
SM: supposed to respond to opera comments
14:15:01 [Steven]
(By the way, I updated the Activity statement:
14:15:07 [oedipus]
RM: validator stuff
14:15:14 [oedipus]
RM: is that closed?
14:15:22 [oedipus]
SM: overcome by events
14:15:25 [oedipus]
RM: ok
14:15:46 [oedipus]
TOPIC: Other Lingering Actions
14:16:10 [oedipus]
SM: finished first action, need to respond to simon
14:16:35 [oedipus]
RM: comments from september
14:16:38 [Roland]
14:16:56 [oedipus]
RM: went through this - action is for SM to respond?
14:17:01 [oedipus]
SM: yes, second action
14:17:04 [oedipus]
RM: plan?
14:17:44 [oedipus]
ACTION: Shane - reply to Simon's comments on behalf of Opera in regards XHTML Mime Type
14:17:44 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-9 - - reply to Simon's comments on behalf of Opera in regards XHTML Mime Type [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-22].
14:17:57 [oedipus]
14:19:22 [oedipus]
RM: what is bit about "craft text to about transformation of XHTML to HTML"
14:19:47 [oedipus]
SM: Tina suggested if don't want to follow rules, can server-side transform your documents -- at least mention that that is an option
14:20:29 [oedipus]
SM: requested "if don't have need to serve things as XML, but still want to use XHTML, should be possible to transform on server side to text/html -- think applies only to XHTML 1.0 -- maybe XHTML 1.1
14:20:36 [oedipus]
RM: subject of Mime doc, right?
14:20:38 [oedipus]
SM: no
14:20:44 [oedipus]
RM: that's what people think of
14:20:49 [oedipus]
SM: not used to using others
14:20:54 [oedipus]
RM: what shall we do
14:21:02 [oedipus]
SM: put text into mime document
14:21:11 [oedipus]
RM: great - another topic out of the way
14:21:17 [oedipus]
TOPIC: Role Attribute Module
14:21:48 [oedipus]
SM: role ready to go -- just waiting on CURIEs - can deliver as package: Role, Access, and CURIEs could go to CR together after f2f if agree we are done
14:21:52 [oedipus]
SM: action on GJR
14:22:03 [oedipus]
GJR: ask PFWG why "similar" inserted into 2.1 of ARIA spec
14:22:03 [oedipus]
and answser to ShaneM's query about Role and ARIA
14:22:44 [oedipus]
GJR: AlG took action to explain why verbiage changed
14:23:13 [oedipus]
SVG Issues Under PF Review:
14:23:56 [oedipus]
ACTION: Gregory - clear up status of why ARIA says "similar" to role
14:23:56 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-10 - - clear up status of why ARIA says \"similar\" to role [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2008-10-22].
14:24:15 [oedipus]
RM: just waiting for CURIE to push Role and Access
14:24:29 [oedipus]
RM: try to resolve to move forward at face2face next week
14:25:09 [oedipus]
TOPIC: Access Module
14:25:20 [oedipus]
GJR: first one overcome by events and should be dropped
14:25:34 [oedipus]
GJR: now we are modularizing Events in next iteration
14:25:50 [oedipus]
GJR: have action to bring up SVG's proposal for attribute 'order' to
14:25:50 [oedipus]
ascertain if affects accessibility qua accessibility
14:26:29 [oedipus]
GJR: discussed 'order' with PFWG and UAAG -- no engineering problems from PF; part of what UAAG 2.0 attempting to address
14:26:55 [oedipus]
RM: document way document order access can be interpreted
14:26:57 [oedipus]
SM: done
14:27:18 [oedipus]
RM: so Access Module ready to go to CR?
14:27:55 [oedipus]
SM: yes - position to do final look over on 3 docs whose editor's drafts i will update: Role Module, Access Module, and CURIEs - should submit as batch
14:29:06 [oedipus]
14:30:53 [oedipus]
GJR: still option to diaable IFRAME in most assistive technology, so a lot of problems not addressed
14:31:20 [ShaneM]
14:33:38 [oedipus]
SM: key to issue: events can't traverse - can't bridge event models
14:33:45 [oedipus]
SM: document says "you can't"
14:34:04 [oedipus]
14:34:44 [oedipus]
RM: should have set of features documented as features - when did SCRIPT function, say "this implements a feature, not a namespace"
14:34:50 [oedipus]
old action on shane: Shane create an initial features document that includes the
14:34:50 [oedipus]
features from XML Events 2
14:35:24 [oedipus]
RM: redefinition of Events into Handlers Module, Listener Module and Script Module
14:35:33 [oedipus]
SM: granularity at module level which makes sense
14:35:48 [oedipus]
SM: might make sense to have fourth feature -- the collection -- wouldn't hurt
14:35:58 [oedipus]
SM: then could say implement all or implement this one
14:36:30 [oedipus]
RM: inclined to get done in another group at moment; suggest once we assign features URIs and get CURIEs for them
14:37:24 [oedipus]
RM: each feature has own URI, so can check with equivalent of DOMHasFeature to document feature supported; or IMPLEMENT this feature (script module)
14:37:31 [oedipus]
SM: can we discuss versioning?
14:37:46 [oedipus]
RM: put on agenda for next week - should spend time at TPAC
14:37:55 [oedipus]
RM: how to connect script to something smaller than namespace
14:39:03 [oedipus]
14:39:36 [oedipus]
RM: bootstrap bit of javascript to implement XML Events 2
14:39:53 [oedipus]
GJR: RWAB will be roaming -- Charlie Weicha is chair, Steven is also member
14:40:22 [oedipus]
SM: what time is it in cannes right now?
14:41:18 [Steven]
14:41:33 [oedipus]
14:42:03 [oedipus]
SM: adding @implements independent of XML Events 2 - could do in modularization
14:42:15 [Steven]
14:42:26 [oedipus]
RM: could get module devoted to that quicker than XHTML2
14:42:37 [oedipus]
SM: make module; make spec
14:42:48 [oedipus]
RM: want to talk about features
14:43:02 [oedipus]
TOPIC: Tying up loose ends
14:43:24 [oedipus]
SM: transfer action to trackbot to get on agenda for f2f
14:44:12 [oedipus]
ACTION: Shane - draft policy statement on migration and evolution
14:44:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-11 - - draft policy statement on migration and evolution [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-22].
14:44:42 [ShaneM]
14:45:01 [oedipus]
14:45:21 [oedipus]
RM: MathML entity set published as own document
14:45:28 [oedipus]
SM: accepted comments -- that is done
14:45:44 [oedipus]
RM: formalizing our examples - should spend time on that - will be agenda item for next week
14:46:15 [oedipus]
RM: out of time - anything to mention briefly?
14:46:31 [oedipus]
RM: one item for next week is clean up all of actions that have been sitting on our agenda
14:46:49 [oedipus]
RM: no call next wednesday -- face2face -- there is a face2face page on wiki
14:47:56 [oedipus]
RM: take shane's proposal and add considering errata to policy statement on migrations and evolution
14:48:10 [oedipus]
14:48:54 [oedipus]
14:49:08 [oedipus]
RM: please watch the f2f wiki page -- will be populating it
14:49:09 [Zakim]
14:49:11 [oedipus]
14:49:13 [Zakim]
14:49:16 [Zakim]
14:49:17 [Zakim]
14:49:17 [Zakim]
IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
14:49:18 [Zakim]
Attendees were Roland, ShaneM, Gregory_Rosmaita, Alessio
14:49:48 [oedipus]
zakim, please part
14:49:48 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #xhtml
14:49:53 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:49:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate oedipus
14:50:43 [Roland]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:50:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Roland
14:51:12 [Roland]
Roland has left #xhtml
14:51:17 [oedipus]
present+ Steven_on_IRC
14:51:21 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:51:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate oedipus
14:54:48 [alessio]
14:54:58 [alessio]
alessio has left #xhtml
15:29:14 [ShaneM]
ShaneM has left #xhtml
15:30:23 [oedipus]
regrets- Tina_Holcombe
15:30:55 [Steven]
She wasn't sorry?
15:31:12 [oedipus]
regrets+ Tina_Holmboe
15:31:24 [Steven]
15:31:30 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:31:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate oedipus
15:32:55 [oedipus]
rrsagent, please part
15:32:55 [RRSAgent]
I see 6 open action items saved in :
15:32:55 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Shane - add 2 items to errata for XML Events 1 [1]
15:32:55 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:32:55 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Steven - Steven to write strawman on XHTML2/HTML5 wording [2]
15:32:55 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:32:55 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Shane - produce updated drafts with schema by face2face [3]
15:32:55 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:32:55 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Shane - reply to Simon's comments on behalf of Opera in regards XHTML Mime Type [4]
15:32:55 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:32:55 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Gregory - clear up status of why ARIA says "similar" to role [5]
15:32:55 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:32:55 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Shane - draft policy statement on migration and evolution [6]
15:32:55 [RRSAgent]
recorded in