IRC log of svg on 2008-10-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

10:25:15 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #svg
10:25:15 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-irc
10:25:17 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
10:25:19 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
10:25:19 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
10:25:20 [trackbot]: Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
10:25:20 [trackbot]: Date: 14 October 2008
10:25:35 [Zakim]: GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has now started
10:25:42 [Zakim]: +Doug_Schepers
10:25:50 [Zakim]: +??P1
10:26:01 [aemmons]: zakim, ??p1 is me
10:26:01 [Zakim]: +aemmons; got it
10:29:39 [Zakim]: +??P2
10:29:48 [lmartine]: lmartine has joined #svg
10:29:50 [anthony]: Zakim, ??P2 is me
10:29:50 [Zakim]: +anthony; got it
10:30:41 [Zakim]: +??P3
10:30:47 [ed_]: Zakim, ??P3 is me
10:30:47 [Zakim]: +ed_; got it
10:31:57 [Zakim]: +lmartine
10:33:17 [Zakim]: +Andrew_Sledd
10:33:48 [NH]: NH has joined #svg
10:35:32 [shepazu]: Zakim, +Andrew_Sledd is NH
10:35:32 [Zakim]: sorry, shepazu, I do not recognize a party named '+Andrew_Sledd'
10:35:44 [shepazu]: Zakim, Andrew_Sledd is NH
10:35:44 [Zakim]: +NH; got it
10:36:25 [anthony]: Chair: Andrew Emmons
10:36:33 [anthony]: scribe: anthony
10:36:33 [ChrisL]: just coming, finishing up discussion with r12a
10:37:23 [aemmons]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0105.html
10:37:42 [aemmons]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0104.html
10:37:42 [anthony]: Topic: Marathon Telephone Conferences
10:37:46 [Zakim]: + +95249aaaa
10:38:02 [anthony]: AE: There was a request for Marathon Telephone Conferences
10:38:53 [ChrisL]: zakim, +95 is me
10:38:53 [Zakim]: +ChrisL; got it
10:41:14 [anthony]: DS: What about tomorrow night?
10:41:18 [anthony]: AG: I'll probably be a bit late
10:41:52 [anthony]: NH: I'll probably be late as well
10:41:58 [anthony]: DS: What about Thursday?
10:42:11 [anthony]: CL: Can't really make Thursday
10:42:20 [anthony]: DS: We can do multiple ones
10:42:25 [anthony]: CL: Yes why don't we do that
10:42:37 [ChrisL]: Can make some of Thusday but has a lot of conflicts
10:42:47 [anthony]: CL: I can sign on for Wed
10:42:49 [ChrisL]: I can sign on for weds all day
10:43:13 [anthony]: NH: Can make tomorrow afternoon
10:43:45 [anthony]: CL: 10 - 6 Europe time
10:44:13 [anthony]: DS: Why don't we schedule tomorrow
10:44:17 [anthony]: ... and see how we go
10:44:28 [anthony]: ... if not we can go again Thursday
10:44:59 [anthony]: AE: Someone will need to email with the details
10:45:21 [anthony]: CL: So it will be 4am to 1pm Eastern
10:45:32 [anthony]: DS: I doubt I'll be able to make it that early
10:45:52 [ChrisL]: Its fine, you can join later i have to leave early thursday
10:46:00 [ChrisL]: 10am to 18:00 europe
10:46:21 [ChrisL]: 4 to 12 EST
10:46:59 [ChrisL]: 7pm to 3am for Sydney :(
10:47:22 [anthony]: Topic: Implementation Progress
10:47:43 [ed_]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0042.html
10:47:43 [shepazu]: http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFestOttawa.html
10:48:12 [anthony]: DS: Ed and I agreed it would be best to do the table
10:48:18 [ed_]: http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFestTPAC-atrisk-verify.html
10:48:22 [anthony]: ED: I checked in a separate file with all the at risk test cases
10:48:30 [anthony]: ... and that's the table I've been updateing
10:48:41 [anthony]: s/updateing/updating/
10:48:51 [anthony]: ED: I'll probably be making more changes to the table
10:48:56 [anthony]: ... but we need to discuss test first
10:49:12 [anthony]: ... blue on the table means that someone was given an action to implement
10:49:37 [anthony]: ... the ones that are marked in Grey are not at risk anymore
10:50:07 [ChrisL]: text-align-202-t.svg
10:50:18 [anthony]: CL: I can discuss text-align-202-t.svg
10:50:29 [anthony]: ... I had an action to remove the direction attribute
10:50:57 [anthony]: ... It was raised on SVG 1.1 it had to be set on every element
10:51:14 [anthony]: ... so if you have Arabic you could set it an off you go
10:51:30 [anthony]: ... I still do have to update the RelaxNG
10:51:55 [anthony]: ED: It's inherited so it's not a problem for us
10:52:01 [ChrisL]: will add to svg and g elements as well as text elements
10:52:07 [anthony]: DS: As an author I do that sort of thing all the time
10:52:12 [ChrisL]: so do I
10:52:29 [anthony]: ... I'll typically put the font-family on a root knowing it only applies to certain ones
10:53:01 [shepazu]: s/certain ones/text elements and not shapes/
10:53:07 [ChrisL]: Abbra expects to have the unicode bidi done in time
10:53:17 [anthony]: ACTION: Chris to Add direction to the RelaxNG
10:53:17 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2291 - Add direction to the RelaxNG [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].
10:53:39 [ChrisL]: Opera just added it
10:53:42 [ChrisL]: Inkscape passes
10:53:42 [anthony]: CL: Inkscape passes it
10:54:08 [anthony]: DS: Should talk to Motorola for some of these
10:54:20 [anthony]: ED: So far there hasn't been any updates to the table
10:54:24 [anthony]: ... still haven't seen any
10:54:31 [anthony]: NH: Haven't done anything yet
10:54:37 [ed_]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFestTPAC-atrisk-verify.html shows no updates yet
10:55:12 [anthony]: LM: I can send an email with the updates
10:55:41 [anthony]: ED: I have one test that I'd like to discuss
10:55:54 [ed_]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0116.html
10:56:55 [anthony]: LM: We'll pass linking-frag-203, styling-inherit-03, media-video-215
10:57:03 [anthony]: DS: That will bring it down to 15
10:57:09 [anthony]: ED: udom-svg-224
10:57:18 [anthony]: ... and that test
10:57:25 [anthony]: ... is expecting the wrong exception type
10:57:50 [anthony]: ... the test seems to be expecting not supported error
10:58:10 [anthony]: ... the spec seems to need an update and it is also using invalid
10:59:11 [anthony]: ... I propose to change the spec
10:59:15 [anthony]: ... invalid access error
10:59:53 [anthony]: ... I'd be ok with having both in error and unsupported values covered (if error still exists)
11:00:00 [ed_]: http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/svgudom.html#svg__TraitAccess
11:00:20 [anthony]: ED: It's in the last sentence in that paragraph
11:00:28 [anthony]: CL: Sounds good to me
11:00:38 [anthony]: ... we generally got away from the idea of in error
11:00:51 [anthony]: ED: I also have all the changes to the tests ready to commit
11:00:57 [anthony]: ... it's mostly editorial
11:01:11 [anthony]: ... no changes that affect the tests
11:01:28 [anthony]: LM: You'll be changing the test criteria
11:01:36 [anthony]: ...?
11:01:47 [anthony]: ED: [goes through changes]
11:01:58 [anthony]: CL: Sounds good to me
11:02:09 [anthony]: ED: There is a test there called udom-svg-220
11:02:19 [anthony]: ... it's not at risk
11:02:27 [anthony]: ... but I'm not sure about it
11:03:18 [anthony]: LM: Concern about the change with udom-svg-224
11:03:29 [anthony]: ED: I think it's low risk for you, I don't think you'll fail it
11:03:48 [NH]: NH has joined #svg
11:04:47 [anthony]: AE: I'd say the we should be careful of the changes
11:05:04 [anthony]: ... we should probably go ahead with it
11:05:15 [anthony]: ED: I can do the changes and send the email out
11:05:20 [anthony]: ... to give people a chance to test
11:06:11 [anthony]: AE: I'd encourage implementations to test on as soon as possible
11:06:30 [anthony]: NH: I have a question about media-audio-215
11:06:37 [anthony]: ... it's about clamping audio level
11:06:44 [ed_]: ACTION: ed to update udom-svg-220 and 224 and the spec as indicated in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0116.html
11:06:44 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2292 - Update udom-svg-220 and 224 and the spec as indicated in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0116.html [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-21].
11:07:08 [anthony]: ... usually with clamping you clamp as late as possible
11:07:25 [anthony]: ... the test expects to clamp 2 and multiple by 0.5
11:07:29 [anthony]: ... which is 0.5
11:07:44 [anthony]: ... but we multiple 2 by 0.5 then clamp it
11:08:06 [anthony]: CL: If the clamping is done as a last step then it shouldn't matter the order the
11:08:15 [anthony]: ... terms are multiplied
11:08:26 [anthony]: NH: The test expects you clamp at each step
11:08:32 [anthony]: CL: What does the spec say/
11:08:44 [anthony]: NH: Doesn't say
11:09:03 [anthony]: CL: It seems to me that there would be a loss of functionality
11:09:32 [anthony]: ... so if you have a group around so you could only decrease
11:09:48 [anthony]: DS: If we change this would that make bitflash not pass?
11:10:04 [anthony]: NH: Maybe
11:10:16 [anthony]: ... We should clarify the spec
11:10:34 [anthony]: AG: We've done this already twice
11:11:01 [anthony]: AE: Niklas can you send an email to clarify your thoughts
11:11:24 [ChrisL]: it looks as if the spec isd not clear about early clamping for audio
11:11:44 [anthony]: CL: I'm about to edit that one as agreed
11:11:51 [anthony]: ... it currently has the direction property on it
11:11:55 [anthony]: ... so I'm taking it out again
11:12:16 [anthony]: ... having it there doesn't change anything
11:12:53 [anthony]: DS: Is that something Abbra is going to pass (text-align-202)?
11:13:59 [anthony]: ... media-audio-206 they could work on
11:14:03 [anthony]: ... and that would help
11:14:25 [anthony]: ... udom-209/215
11:15:50 [anthony]: AE: Do we have sufficient coverage?
11:16:07 [anthony]: ... for example constrained transforms may need some work
11:16:56 [anthony]: ACTION: Erik to Add constrained transform tests to the table
11:16:56 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2293 - Add constrained transform tests to the table [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-21].
11:17:32 [anthony]: AE: I guess I could go through the raw spreadsheet, but that was the only red flag holding us up
11:19:23 [anthony]: ... we may have interoperability problems if we let constrained transforms go
11:19:32 [anthony]: Topic: Last Call Comments
11:20:05 [aemmons]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/raised
11:20:26 [anthony]: Topic: ISSUE-2082
11:20:30 [anthony]: ISSUE-2082
11:20:33 [anthony]: ISSUE-2082?
11:20:33 [trackbot]: ISSUE-2082 -- attributeType auto -- RAISED
11:20:33 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2082
11:20:55 [anthony]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Oct/0111.html
11:22:15 [ChrisL]: zakim, mute me
11:22:15 [Zakim]: ChrisL should now be muted
11:22:20 [anthony]: DS: Can move to the next one this is pretty involved
11:22:43 [anthony]: Topic: ISSUE-2073
11:22:48 [anthony]: ISSUE-2073?
11:22:48 [trackbot]: ISSUE-2073 -- inverse and constrained transformations -- RAISED
11:22:48 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2073
11:23:27 [anthony]: AG: Got a response with better wording
11:23:32 [anthony]: DS: I think it's fine
11:28:11 [anthony]: Topic: ISSUE-2080
11:28:14 [anthony]: ISSUE-2080?
11:28:14 [trackbot]: ISSUE-2080 -- Clarify focusable=auto -- RAISED
11:28:14 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2080
11:28:21 [anthony]: ED: I added the text to the spec
11:28:26 [anthony]: ... just pending review form Ikivo
11:29:29 [ChrisL]: zakim, unmute me
11:29:29 [Zakim]: ChrisL should no longer be muted
11:30:27 [shepazu]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2093
11:30:37 [anthony]: Topic: ISSUE-2093
11:30:41 [anthony]: ISSUE-2093?
11:30:41 [trackbot]: ISSUE-2093 -- 16.2.9 by 'identity' -- RAISED
11:30:41 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2093
11:32:15 [anthony]: DS: It is a bit unclear what he is asking for
11:32:20 [anthony]: AG: I'm not sure
11:33:11 [anthony]: DS: I'm think he wants us to add what the identity value for types
11:33:17 [anthony]: CL: I think we did get around this
11:33:31 [anthony]: ... by saying the starting 0 is the one that has no effect
11:33:41 [anthony]: ... it's the value that doesn't do anything
11:34:02 [anthony]: ... if you multiply an RGB colour by 0 you get the same result
11:34:11 [anthony]: ... basically list all of them out
11:34:29 [anthony]: ... we could use identity and see what he says
11:34:59 [anthony]: ... he quotes the wording form the SMIL spec
11:35:06 [anthony]: ... we could stick that exact wording in there
11:35:20 [anthony]: ... and then quote the identity matrix
11:35:27 [anthony]: DS: We could stick in what he's got there
11:35:32 [anthony]: ... which gives examples
11:36:47 [anthony]: RESOLUTION: Clarify by values of 0
11:37:25 [anthony]: ACTION: Chris to Reply to Dr. Hoffmann regarding ISSUE-2093
11:37:25 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2296 - Reply to Dr. Hoffmann regarding ISSUE-2093 [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].
11:39:08 [shepazu]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2121
11:39:16 [anthony]: Topic: ISSUE-2121
11:40:10 [anthony]: DS: I seem to recall we decided to leave the reference to elliptical arcs in
11:40:28 [anthony]: CL: In this case I don't see a problem with removing this
11:40:32 [anthony]: ... because it doesn't add much
11:40:40 [anthony]: ... we could add an example
11:41:31 [anthony]: ... I think removing the parenthetical is ok
11:41:43 [anthony]: DS: Would we be removing too much information then?
11:42:02 [anthony]: ... we could just comment it out and say use this for full
11:42:15 [anthony]: CL: I've got the spec open and I can do it now
11:42:55 [anthony]: DS: Do you want to respond him
11:44:14 [anthony]: ACTION: Chris to Respond to Helder regarding the change on ISSUE-2121
11:44:14 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2297 - Respond to Helder regarding the change on ISSUE-2121 [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].
11:46:17 [shepazu]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2126
11:46:48 [anthony]: Topic: ISSUE-2126
11:47:15 [anthony]: DS: Easy to discuss, but lengthy to accomplish
11:49:03 [anthony]: ACTION: Emmons to Add lacuna wording for attribute definitions regarding ISSUE-2126
11:49:03 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2298 - Add lacuna wording for attribute definitions regarding ISSUE-2126 [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-10-21].
11:49:05 [ChrisL]: close action-2297
11:49:05 [trackbot]: ACTION-2297 Respond to Helder regarding the change on ISSUE-2121 closed
11:49:20 [shepazu]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2129
11:49:44 [anthony]: Topic: ISSUE-2129
11:50:01 [anthony]: DS: I think it might be worth splitting it out to the coords and viewBox chapter
11:50:11 [anthony]: ... and have a small definition
11:50:19 [anthony]: ... he explains what basically needs to be done
11:52:00 [aemmons]: aemmons has joined #svg
11:52:19 [anthony]: ACTION: Anthony to Make edits to split out bounding box definition regarding ISSUE-2129
11:52:19 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2299 - Make edits to split out bounding box definition regarding ISSUE-2129 [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-10-21].
11:52:26 [shepazu]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2130
11:52:37 [anthony]: Topic: ISSUE-2130
11:53:02 [anthony]: DS: Skip this one for now
11:53:19 [shepazu]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2131
11:53:42 [anthony]: Topic: ISSUE-2131
11:54:01 [anthony]: DS: Simple typo
11:54:17 [anthony]: ACTION: Anthony to Fix the typo in the spec regarding ISSUE-2131
11:54:17 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2300 - Fix the typo in the spec regarding ISSUE-2131 [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-10-21].
11:54:25 [anthony]: Topic: ISSUE-2130
11:54:32 [anthony]: CL: The first one
11:54:39 [anthony]: ... is to explain NC name
11:54:48 [anthony]: ... the second is simple and obvious
11:54:55 [anthony]: ... provide an example
11:55:00 [anthony]: ... the first two are trivial
11:55:27 [anthony]: ... it's not clear where we make the attribute table from
11:55:33 [anthony]: ED: Schema I think
11:55:58 [anthony]: DS: You mean the attribute table in the appendix?
11:56:13 [anthony]: CL: If you look at the master it's empty
11:56:31 [anthony]: ED: I know for a fact it pulls out things from the schema for animation
11:56:44 [anthony]: DS: There is an attribute table and an attribute table template
11:56:56 [ed_]: s/animation/whether attributes&props are animatable/
11:57:08 [anthony]: CL: I only see attribute table in published
11:57:15 [anthony]: DS: I see an attribute table in master
11:57:28 [anthony]: CL: Maybe created by a script?
11:57:54 [ed_]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/master/attributeTable-template.html
11:58:01 [shepazu]: http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/attributeTable.html
11:58:28 [shepazu]: <list-of-strings>
12:00:11 [shepazu]: <ListOfString>
12:00:15 [anthony]: CL: Could've lost a change
12:00:27 [anthony]: ED: If you changed the schema then it would be correct
12:01:18 [ChrisL]: list-of-string does not appear in tools/tables/makeTable.pl
12:01:34 [shepazu]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2125
12:01:43 [shepazu]: <ListOfStrings>
12:01:47 [shepazu]: <ListOfString>
12:02:03 [anthony]: DS: I found ListOfString
12:02:14 [ChrisL]: In the perl I see String => 'string'
12:02:31 [ChrisL]: wonder about adding Strings => 'list-ofstring'
12:02:52 [ChrisL]: wonder about adding Strings => 'list-ofstrings'
12:02:58 [ed_]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/master/relaxng/datatypes.rng.diff?r1=1.18&r2=1.19&f=h
12:03:19 [anthony]: CL: I wounder if that change will be ok
12:03:39 [anthony]: ... ok so it's in the RNG
12:04:05 [anthony]: DS: in the pros we call it list-of-strings
12:04:16 [ChrisL]: s/pros/prose/
12:04:36 [anthony]: DS: Wondering if was adding a temporary version
12:06:27 [anthony]: ACTION: Chris to Propose wording for ISSUE-2130
12:06:27 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2301 - Propose wording for ISSUE-2130 [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].
12:08:41 [Zakim]: -ed_
12:08:43 [Zakim]: -aemmons
12:08:44 [Zakim]: -NH
12:08:44 [Zakim]: -lmartine
12:08:45 [Zakim]: -Doug_Schepers
12:08:52 [Zakim]: -anthony
12:09:12 [ChrisL]: so in the end, was it ListOfStrings with an S that we wanted it to be?
12:09:46 [ed_]: list-of-strings in the attributetable I believe, but ListOfStrings in the schema?
12:10:10 [ChrisL]: ok. schema currently has ListOfString
12:10:19 [ChrisL]: I will change that (all occurences)
12:10:29 [anthony]: Zakim, bye
12:10:29 [Zakim]: leaving. As of this point the attendees were Doug_Schepers, aemmons, anthony, ed_, lmartine, NH, +95249aaaa, ChrisL
12:10:29 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #svg
12:10:49 [ChrisL]: rrsagent, make logs public
12:11:04 [ChrisL]: rrsagent, make minutes
12:11:04 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html ChrisL
13:43:49 [NH]: NH has joined #svg