10:25:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
10:25:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-irc
10:25:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
10:25:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
10:25:19 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
10:25:20 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
10:25:20 <trackbot> Date: 14 October 2008
10:25:35 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has now started
10:25:42 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
10:25:50 <Zakim> +??P1
10:26:01 <aemmons> zakim, ??p1 is me
10:26:01 <Zakim> +aemmons; got it
10:29:39 <Zakim> +??P2
10:29:48 <lmartine> lmartine has joined #svg
10:29:50 <anthony> Zakim, ??P2 is me
10:29:50 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
10:30:41 <Zakim> +??P3
10:30:47 <ed_> Zakim, ??P3 is me
10:30:47 <Zakim> +ed_; got it
10:31:57 <Zakim> +lmartine
10:33:17 <Zakim> +Andrew_Sledd
10:33:48 <NH> NH has joined #svg
10:35:32 <shepazu> Zakim, +Andrew_Sledd is NH
10:35:32 <Zakim> sorry, shepazu, I do not recognize a party named '+Andrew_Sledd'
10:35:44 <shepazu> Zakim, Andrew_Sledd is NH
10:35:44 <Zakim> +NH; got it
10:36:25 <anthony> Chair: Andrew Emmons
10:36:33 <anthony> scribe: anthony
10:36:33 <ChrisL> just coming, finishing up discussion with r12a
10:37:23 <aemmons> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0105.html
10:37:42 <aemmons> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0104.html
10:37:42 <anthony> Topic: Marathon Telephone Conferences
10:37:46 <Zakim> + +95249aaaa
10:38:02 <anthony> AE: There was a request for Marathon Telephone Conferences
10:38:53 <ChrisL> zakim, +95 is me
10:38:53 <Zakim> +ChrisL; got it
10:41:14 <anthony> DS: What about tomorrow night?
10:41:18 <anthony> AG: I'll probably be a bit late
10:41:52 <anthony> NH: I'll probably be late as well
10:41:58 <anthony> DS: What about Thursday?
10:42:11 <anthony> CL: Can't really make Thursday
10:42:20 <anthony> DS: We can do multiple ones
10:42:25 <anthony> CL: Yes why don't we do that
10:42:37 <ChrisL> Can make some of Thusday but has a lot of conflicts
10:42:47 <anthony> CL: I can sign on for Wed
10:42:49 <ChrisL> I can sign on for weds all day
10:43:13 <anthony> NH: Can make tomorrow afternoon
10:43:45 <anthony> CL: 10 - 6 Europe time
10:44:13 <anthony> DS: Why don't we schedule tomorrow
10:44:17 <anthony> ... and see how we go
10:44:28 <anthony> ... if not we can go again Thursday
10:44:59 <anthony> AE: Someone will need to email with the details
10:45:21 <anthony> CL: So it will be 4am to 1pm Eastern
10:45:32 <anthony> DS: I doubt I'll be able to make it that early
10:45:52 <ChrisL> Its fine, you can join later i have to leave early thursday
10:46:00 <ChrisL> 10am to 18:00 europe
10:46:21 <ChrisL> 4 to 12 EST
10:46:59 <ChrisL> 7pm to 3am for Sydney :(
10:47:22 <anthony> Topic: Implementation Progress
10:47:43 <ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0042.html
10:47:43 <shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFestOttawa.html
10:48:12 <anthony> DS: Ed and I agreed it would be best to do the table
10:48:18 <ed_> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFestTPAC-atrisk-verify.html
10:48:22 <anthony> ED: I checked in a separate file with all the at risk test cases
10:48:30 <anthony> ... and that's the table I've been updateing
10:48:41 <anthony> s/updateing/updating/
10:48:51 <anthony> ED: I'll probably be making more changes to the table
10:48:56 <anthony> ... but we need to discuss test first
10:49:12 <anthony> ... blue on the table means that someone was given an action to implement
10:49:37 <anthony> ... the ones that are marked in Grey are not at risk anymore
10:50:07 <ChrisL> text-align-202-t.svg
10:50:18 <anthony> CL: I can discuss text-align-202-t.svg
10:50:29 <anthony> ... I had an action to remove the direction attribute
10:50:57 <anthony> ... It was raised on SVG 1.1 it had to be set on every element
10:51:14 <anthony> ... so if you have Arabic you could set it an off you go
10:51:30 <anthony> ... I still do have to update the RelaxNG
10:51:55 <anthony> ED: It's inherited so it's not a problem for us
10:52:01 <ChrisL> will add to svg and g elements as well as text elements
10:52:07 <anthony> DS: As an author I do that sort of thing all the time
10:52:12 <ChrisL> so do I
10:52:29 <anthony> ... I'll typically put the font-family on a root knowing it only applies to certain ones
10:53:01 <shepazu> s/certain ones/text elements and not shapes/
10:53:07 <ChrisL> Abbra expects to have the unicode bidi done in time
10:53:17 <anthony> ACTION: Chris to Add direction to the RelaxNG
10:53:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2291 - Add direction to the RelaxNG [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].
10:53:39 <ChrisL> Opera just added it
10:53:42 <ChrisL> Inkscape passes
10:53:42 <anthony> CL: Inkscape passes it
10:54:08 <anthony> DS: Should talk to Motorola for some of these
10:54:20 <anthony> ED: So far there hasn't been any updates to the table
10:54:24 <anthony> ... still haven't seen any
10:54:31 <anthony> NH: Haven't done anything yet
10:54:37 <ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFestTPAC-atrisk-verify.html shows no updates yet
10:55:12 <anthony> LM: I can send an email with the updates
10:55:41 <anthony> ED: I have one test that I'd like to discuss
10:55:54 <ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0116.html
10:56:55 <anthony> LM: We'll pass linking-frag-203, styling-inherit-03, media-video-215
10:57:03 <anthony> DS: That will bring it down to 15
10:57:09 <anthony> ED: udom-svg-224
10:57:18 <anthony> ... and that test
10:57:25 <anthony> ... is expecting the wrong exception type
10:57:50 <anthony> ... the test seems to be expecting not supported error
10:58:10 <anthony> ... the spec seems to need an update and it is also using invalid
10:59:11 <anthony> ... I propose to change the spec
10:59:15 <anthony> ... invalid access error
10:59:53 <anthony> ... I'd be ok with having both in error and unsupported values covered (if error still exists)
11:00:00 <ed_> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/svgudom.html#svg__TraitAccess
11:00:20 <anthony> ED: It's in the last sentence in that paragraph
11:00:28 <anthony> CL: Sounds good to me
11:00:38 <anthony> ... we generally got away from the idea of in error
11:00:51 <anthony> ED: I also have all the changes to the tests ready to commit
11:00:57 <anthony> ... it's mostly editorial
11:01:11 <anthony> ... no changes that affect the tests
11:01:28 <anthony> LM: You'll be changing the test criteria
11:01:36 <anthony> ...?
11:01:47 <anthony> ED: [goes through changes]
11:01:58 <anthony> CL: Sounds good to me
11:02:09 <anthony> ED: There is a test there called udom-svg-220
11:02:19 <anthony> ... it's not at risk
11:02:27 <anthony> ... but I'm not sure about it
11:03:18 <anthony> LM: Concern about the change with udom-svg-224
11:03:29 <anthony> ED: I think it's low risk for you, I don't think you'll fail it
11:03:48 <NH> NH has joined #svg
11:04:47 <anthony> AE: I'd say the we should be careful of the changes
11:05:04 <anthony> ... we should probably go ahead with it
11:05:15 <anthony> ED: I can do the changes and send the email out
11:05:20 <anthony> ... to give people a chance to test
11:06:11 <anthony> AE: I'd encourage implementations to test on as soon as possible
11:06:30 <anthony> NH: I have a question about media-audio-215
11:06:37 <anthony> ... it's about clamping audio level
11:06:44 <ed_> ACTION: ed to update udom-svg-220 and 224 and the spec as indicated in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0116.html 
11:06:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2292 - Update udom-svg-220 and 224 and the spec as indicated in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0116.html  [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-21].
11:07:08 <anthony> ... usually with clamping you clamp as late as possible
11:07:25 <anthony> ... the test expects to clamp 2 and multiple by 0.5
11:07:29 <anthony> ... which is 0.5
11:07:44 <anthony> ... but we multiple 2 by 0.5 then clamp it
11:08:06 <anthony> CL: If the clamping is done as a last step then it shouldn't matter the order the
11:08:15 <anthony> ... terms are multiplied
11:08:26 <anthony> NH: The test expects you clamp at each step
11:08:32 <anthony> CL: What does the spec say/
11:08:44 <anthony> NH: Doesn't say
11:09:03 <anthony> CL: It seems to me that there would be a loss of functionality
11:09:32 <anthony> ... so if you have a group around so you could only decrease
11:09:48 <anthony> DS: If we change this would that make bitflash not pass?
11:10:04 <anthony> NH: Maybe
11:10:16 <anthony> ... We should clarify the spec
11:10:34 <anthony> AG: We've done this already twice
11:11:01 <anthony> AE: Niklas can you send an email to clarify your thoughts
11:11:24 <ChrisL> it looks as if the spec isd not clear about early clamping for audio
11:11:44 <anthony> CL: I'm about to edit that one as agreed
11:11:51 <anthony> ... it currently has the direction property on it
11:11:55 <anthony> ... so I'm taking it out again
11:12:16 <anthony> ... having it there doesn't change anything
11:12:53 <anthony> DS: Is that something Abbra is going to pass (text-align-202)?
11:13:59 <anthony> ... media-audio-206 they could work on
11:14:03 <anthony> ... and that would help
11:14:25 <anthony> ... udom-209/215
11:15:50 <anthony> AE: Do we have sufficient coverage?
11:16:07 <anthony> ... for example constrained transforms may need some work
11:16:56 <anthony> ACTION: Erik to Add constrained transform tests to the table
11:16:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2293 - Add constrained transform tests to the table [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-21].
11:17:32 <anthony> AE: I guess I could go through the raw spreadsheet, but that was the only red flag holding us up
11:19:23 <anthony> ... we may have interoperability problems if we let constrained transforms go
11:19:32 <anthony> Topic: Last Call Comments
11:20:05 <aemmons> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/raised
11:20:26 <anthony> Topic: ISSUE-2082
11:20:30 <anthony> ISSUE-2082
11:20:33 <anthony> ISSUE-2082?
11:20:33 <trackbot> ISSUE-2082 -- attributeType auto -- RAISED
11:20:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2082
11:20:55 <anthony> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Oct/0111.html
11:22:15 <ChrisL> zakim, mute me
11:22:15 <Zakim> ChrisL should now be muted
11:22:20 <anthony> DS: Can move to the next one this is pretty involved
11:22:43 <anthony> Topic: ISSUE-2073
11:22:48 <anthony> ISSUE-2073?
11:22:48 <trackbot> ISSUE-2073 -- inverse and constrained transformations -- RAISED
11:22:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2073
11:23:27 <anthony> AG: Got a response with better wording
11:23:32 <anthony> DS: I think it's fine
11:28:11 <anthony> Topic: ISSUE-2080
11:28:14 <anthony> ISSUE-2080?
11:28:14 <trackbot> ISSUE-2080 -- Clarify focusable=auto -- RAISED
11:28:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2080
11:28:21 <anthony> ED: I added the text to the spec
11:28:26 <anthony> ... just pending review form Ikivo
11:29:29 <ChrisL> zakim, unmute me
11:29:29 <Zakim> ChrisL should no longer be muted
11:30:27 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2093
11:30:37 <anthony> Topic: ISSUE-2093
11:30:41 <anthony> ISSUE-2093?
11:30:41 <trackbot> ISSUE-2093 -- 16.2.9 by 'identity' -- RAISED
11:30:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2093
11:32:15 <anthony> DS: It is a bit unclear what he is asking for
11:32:20 <anthony> AG: I'm not sure
11:33:11 <anthony> DS: I'm think he wants us to add what the identity value for types
11:33:17 <anthony> CL: I think we did get around this
11:33:31 <anthony> ... by saying the starting 0 is the one that has no effect
11:33:41 <anthony> ... it's the value that doesn't do anything
11:34:02 <anthony> ... if you multiply an RGB colour by 0 you get the same result
11:34:11 <anthony> ... basically list all of them out
11:34:29 <anthony> ... we could use identity and see what he says
11:34:59 <anthony> ... he quotes the wording form the SMIL spec
11:35:06 <anthony> ... we could stick that exact wording in there
11:35:20 <anthony> ... and then quote the identity matrix
11:35:27 <anthony> DS: We could stick in what he's got there
11:35:32 <anthony> ... which gives examples
11:36:47 <anthony> RESOLUTION: Clarify by values of 0
11:37:25 <anthony> ACTION: Chris to Reply to Dr. Hoffmann regarding ISSUE-2093
11:37:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2296 - Reply to Dr. Hoffmann regarding ISSUE-2093 [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].
11:39:08 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2121
11:39:16 <anthony> Topic: ISSUE-2121
11:40:10 <anthony> DS: I seem to recall we decided to leave the reference to elliptical arcs in
11:40:28 <anthony> CL: In this case I don't see a problem with removing this
11:40:32 <anthony> ... because it doesn't add much
11:40:40 <anthony> ... we could add an example
11:41:31 <anthony> ... I think removing the parenthetical is ok
11:41:43 <anthony> DS: Would we be removing too much information then?
11:42:02 <anthony> ... we could just comment it out and say use this for full
11:42:15 <anthony> CL: I've got the spec open and I can do it now
11:42:55 <anthony> DS: Do you want to respond him
11:44:14 <anthony> ACTION: Chris to Respond to Helder regarding the change on ISSUE-2121
11:44:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2297 - Respond to Helder regarding the change on ISSUE-2121 [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].
11:46:17 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2126
11:46:48 <anthony> Topic: ISSUE-2126
11:47:15 <anthony> DS: Easy to discuss, but lengthy to accomplish
11:49:03 <anthony> ACTION: Emmons to Add lacuna wording for attribute definitions regarding ISSUE-2126
11:49:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2298 - Add lacuna wording for attribute definitions regarding ISSUE-2126 [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-10-21].
11:49:05 <ChrisL> close action-2297
11:49:05 <trackbot> ACTION-2297 Respond to Helder regarding the change on ISSUE-2121 closed
11:49:20 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2129
11:49:44 <anthony> Topic: ISSUE-2129
11:50:01 <anthony> DS: I think it might be worth splitting it out to the coords and viewBox chapter
11:50:11 <anthony> ... and have a small definition
11:50:19 <anthony> ... he explains what basically needs to be done
11:52:00 <aemmons> aemmons has joined #svg
11:52:19 <anthony> ACTION: Anthony to Make edits to split out bounding box definition regarding ISSUE-2129
11:52:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2299 - Make edits to split out bounding box definition regarding ISSUE-2129 [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-10-21].
11:52:26 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2130
11:52:37 <anthony> Topic: ISSUE-2130
11:53:02 <anthony> DS: Skip this one for now
11:53:19 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2131
11:53:42 <anthony> Topic: ISSUE-2131
11:54:01 <anthony> DS: Simple typo
11:54:17 <anthony> ACTION: Anthony to Fix the typo in the spec regarding ISSUE-2131
11:54:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2300 - Fix the typo in the spec regarding ISSUE-2131 [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-10-21].
11:54:25 <anthony> Topic: ISSUE-2130
11:54:32 <anthony> CL: The first one
11:54:39 <anthony> ... is to explain NC name
11:54:48 <anthony> ... the second is simple and obvious
11:54:55 <anthony> ... provide an example
11:55:00 <anthony> ... the first two are trivial
11:55:27 <anthony> ... it's not clear where we make the attribute table from
11:55:33 <anthony> ED: Schema I think
11:55:58 <anthony> DS: You  mean the attribute table in the appendix?
11:56:13 <anthony> CL: If you look at the master it's empty
11:56:31 <anthony> ED: I know for a fact it pulls out things from the schema for animation
11:56:44 <anthony> DS: There is an attribute table and an attribute table template
11:56:56 <ed_> s/animation/whether attributes&props are animatable/
11:57:08 <anthony> CL: I only see attribute table in published
11:57:15 <anthony> DS: I see an attribute table in master
11:57:28 <anthony> CL: Maybe created by a script?
11:57:54 <ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/master/attributeTable-template.html
11:58:01 <shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/attributeTable.html
11:58:28 <shepazu> <list-of-strings>
12:00:11 <shepazu> <ListOfString>
12:00:15 <anthony> CL: Could've lost a change
12:00:27 <anthony> ED: If you changed the schema then it would be correct
12:01:18 <ChrisL> list-of-string does not appear in tools/tables/makeTable.pl
12:01:34 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2125
12:01:43 <shepazu> <ListOfStrings>
12:01:47 <shepazu> <ListOfString>
12:02:03 <anthony> DS: I found ListOfString
12:02:14 <ChrisL> In the perl I see String              => 'string'
12:02:31 <ChrisL> wonder about adding Strings              => 'list-ofstring'
12:02:52 <ChrisL> wonder about adding Strings              => 'list-ofstrings'
12:02:58 <ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/master/relaxng/datatypes.rng.diff?r1=1.18&r2=1.19&f=h
12:03:19 <anthony> CL: I wounder if that change will be ok
12:03:39 <anthony> ... ok so it's in the RNG
12:04:05 <anthony> DS: in the pros we call it list-of-strings
12:04:16 <ChrisL> s/pros/prose/
12:04:36 <anthony> DS: Wondering if was adding a temporary version
12:06:27 <anthony> ACTION: Chris to Propose wording for ISSUE-2130
12:06:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2301 - Propose wording for ISSUE-2130 [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].
12:08:41 <Zakim> -ed_
12:08:43 <Zakim> -aemmons
12:08:44 <Zakim> -NH
12:08:44 <Zakim> -lmartine
12:08:45 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
12:08:52 <Zakim> -anthony
12:09:12 <ChrisL> so in the end, was it ListOfStrings with an S that we wanted it to be?
12:09:46 <ed_> list-of-strings in the attributetable I believe, but ListOfStrings in the schema?
12:10:10 <ChrisL> ok. schema currently has ListOfString
12:10:19 <ChrisL> I will change that (all occurences)
12:10:29 <anthony> Zakim, bye
12:10:29 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Doug_Schepers, aemmons, anthony, ed_, lmartine, NH, +95249aaaa, ChrisL
12:10:29 <Zakim> Zakim has left #svg
12:10:49 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make logs public
12:11:04 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
12:11:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html ChrisL
13:43:49 <NH> NH has joined #svg