20:54:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediaann
20:54:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc
20:54:30 <fsasaki> meeting: Media Annotations WG
20:54:39 <fsasaki> chair: Felix
20:54:58 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0043.html
20:55:03 <fsasaki> rrsagent, make log public
20:56:09 <Zakim> IA_MAWG()5:00PM has now started
20:56:16 <Zakim> +Frank
20:56:44 <fsasaki> regrets: tobias, vassilis, davy
20:56:52 <Zakim> +Felix
20:57:57 <Zakim> +Davy
20:58:50 <VeroM> VeroM has joined #mediaann
21:00:11 <Zakim> +??P9
21:01:04 <fsasaki> present: Frank, Veronique, Frank, Raphael
21:01:40 <Zakim> +??P10
21:01:43 <Zakim> -Davy
21:01:43 <fsasaki> scribe: Veronique
21:02:07 <fsasaki> present+ Joakim
21:02:09 <Zakim> +Davy
21:03:33 <fsasaki> topic: Agenda review / approval of previous minutes
21:03:48 <cgi-irc> cgi-irc has joined #mediaann
21:03:50 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0043.html
21:03:57 <raphael> +1 for accepting the minutes
21:04:12 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-mediaann-minutes.html
21:04:12 <frank> +1
21:04:15 <cgi-irc> +1
21:04:19 <wbailer> +1
21:04:34 <fsasaki> previous minutes approved
21:04:38 <fsasaki> topic: Selection of scribe for next meeting
21:05:13 <VeroM> action: reminder to find scribe for next calls
21:05:13 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - reminder
21:05:17 <fsasaki> topic: Future telephone conferences and f2f meetings / call time
21:05:28 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_(DRAFT
21:05:59 <cgi-irc> zakim, ??P7 is Joakim"
21:05:59 <Zakim> I already had ??P7 as Felix, cgi-irc
21:06:13 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_(DRAFT)
21:06:40 <cgi-irc> zakim, who is here? 
21:06:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frank, Felix, Veronique, Joakim, Davy
21:06:41 <Zakim> Veronique has Raphael
21:06:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see cgi-irc, VeroM, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki, wbailer, frank, raphael, trackbot
21:07:54 <VeroM> action: all look at the draft of the planning for the f2f
21:07:54 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - all
21:08:05 <cgi-irc> zakim, what is [on] [the] agenda? 
21:08:05 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, cgi-irc.
21:08:12 <frank> The agenda sounds good to me. All depends what your idea is on 'discussion on use cases'.
21:08:14 <cgi-irc> zakim, what is agenda? 
21:08:14 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
21:09:54 <VeroM> Frank: later, we should discuss the use cases further
21:11:12 <VeroM> Felix: does someone want to present a specific format at the f2f?
21:11:49 <VeroM> Felix: any volunteer for IMM?
21:12:40 <raphael> I has a look at it today, I guess I could summarize the content
21:12:46 <VeroM> action: Felix to confirm that there should be a presentation about IMM
21:12:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-16 - Confirm that there should be a presentation about IMM [on Felix Sasaki - due 2008-10-21].
21:13:20 <fsasaki> topic: Action items
21:13:25 <raphael> For me, it could be presented together with the IPTC photo metadata standard since there is a lot of overlap between these 2
21:13:58 <frank> good idea
21:14:16 <cgi-irc> rrsagent, show actions 
21:14:16 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'show actions ', cgi-irc.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
21:14:28 <cgi-irc> rrsagent, show actions
21:14:28 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-actions.rdf :
21:14:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: reminder to find scribe for next calls [1]
21:14:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc#T21-05-13
21:14:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: all look at the draft of the planning for the f2f [2]
21:14:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc#T21-07-54
21:14:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Felix to confirm that there should be a presentation about IMM [3]
21:14:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc#T21-12-46
21:15:14 <raphael> I volunteer for nothing ... but can improvise something the D day :-)
21:15:19 <hmiao> hmiao has joined #mediaann
21:15:47 <Zakim> +??P11
21:16:05 <hmiao> hui
21:17:47 <VeroM> Felix: propses to close action number 6
21:17:48 <fsasaki> close ACTION-6
21:17:48 <trackbot> ACTION-6 Check WG participant mailing list subscription mechanism to make sure that new participants are subscribed automatically closed
21:18:05 <cgi-irc> zakim, what conference?
21:18:05 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, cgi-irc.
21:18:07 <fsasaki> close ACTION-14
21:18:07 <trackbot> ACTION-14 Add text on video uc closed
21:18:45 <fsasaki> close ACTION-15
21:18:45 <trackbot> ACTION-15 Elaborate on mobile uc closed
21:19:03 <raphael> q+
21:20:16 <raphael> zakim, ack me
21:20:16 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
21:20:32 <fsasaki> topic: Editing
21:20:56 <VeroM> Felix did drafts on the wiki
21:21:11 <VeroM> Felix: still looking for editors
21:21:30 <fsasaki> topic: Open issues
21:21:33 <VeroM> Felix: keep it in mind
21:22:23 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Main_Page#Use_Cases__and_Requirements
21:22:31 <VeroM> Felix: discuss what Frank and Raphael after the discussion of the existing use cases
21:22:42 <VeroM> Felix: if time
21:23:09 <VeroM> Felix: thanks to the contributors, are there any comments?
21:24:07 <VeroM> Felix: differ the discussion about the IMM to the tpac meeting
21:24:18 <fsasaki> s/differ/defer/
21:24:31 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0041.html
21:25:42 <VeroM> Felix: discussion about the tasks about which we can think of
21:26:01 <VeroM> Frank: very general tasks in some use cases
21:26:10 <VeroM> Frank: like search
21:26:45 <VeroM> Frank: but also particular tasks for particular contexts and media
21:26:59 <VeroM> Frank: which will not occur often
21:27:55 <VeroM> Frank: separate tasks from processes to define better what elementary tasks we should enable to describe
21:28:42 <VeroM> Frank: example of the mobile example
21:29:06 <VeroM> Frank: 1st part about geotagging, automatically done
21:29:24 <VeroM> Frank: do we describe the location or the geo tag?
21:29:54 <frank> Excellent idea - very much what I had in mind
21:30:16 <VeroM> ?? use the use case description as a general container, check box
21:31:41 <VeroM> ?? says that the general question is how far do we go in the description
21:31:54 <fsasaki> s/??/joakim/
21:32:18 <VeroM> ?? says that descriptions shouls enable us to make pocesses work
21:32:45 <raphael> s/shouls/should
21:32:54 <VeroM> Felix: bottom up vs top down approache
21:33:30 <VeroM> Felix: some people could try both appraches and see if we can meet in the middle
21:33:44 <frank> I like Felix idea of double direction approach
21:33:55 <VeroM> Felix: top down should lead to a minimal set of tasks
21:34:04 <hmiao> +1 to both
21:34:20 <VeroM> Felix: we can als start to work on the API
21:35:03 <VeroM> Felix: concrete effort related to the API could also bring a new view
21:35:23 <VeroM> Felix: developpers's need to search in video
21:35:54 <VeroM> ... is a point of view that could be taken into account
21:36:08 <wbailer> not sure if bottom up requires that we also start with the API - the basic methods are probably simple getter/setter for metadata elements available in many vocabularies
21:36:19 <js> js has joined #mediaann
21:36:44 <js> rrsagent, show actions 
21:36:44 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'show actions ', js.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
21:37:18 <js> zakim, who is here?
21:37:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frank, Felix, Veronique, Joakim, Davy, Hui
21:37:19 <Zakim> Veronique has Raphael
21:37:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see js, hmiao, cgi-irc, VeroM, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki, wbailer, frank, raphael, trackbot
21:38:06 <VeroM> Felix: what is your opinion about working on the api already?
21:38:32 <VeroM> Felix: in parallel to the ontology, top-down approach?
21:39:04 <raphael> I tend to think like Werner ... I think it is preferrable to start working on the API once a first draft of the ontoloy exists ... after TPAC
21:39:10 <raphael> ... but before the end of the year
21:39:12 <js> zakim, what is agenda? 
21:39:12 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
21:39:24 <VeroM> ?? says that we should first maybe collect more use cases to define the purpose of the API better
21:39:53 <frank> I am in favor of working on the API now - might help shaping the ongoing discussion due to its practicality
21:39:57 <hmiao> s/??/hui
21:40:05 <VeroM> Felix: starting from the API side gives a concrete application to the ontology to be developped
21:40:08 <raphael> The purpose of the API is pretty clear: provide a programmatic access to the metadata represented by the ontology
21:40:52 <js> zakim, what conference is this?
21:40:52 <Zakim> this is IA_MAWG()5:00PM conference code 6294
21:42:13 <raphael> being sexy to the developers world is an argument I can buy :-)
21:43:23 <js> zakim, who is on the phone?
21:43:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frank, Felix, Veronique, Joakim, Davy, Hui
21:43:24 <Zakim> Veronique has Raphael
21:43:26 <VeroM> Felix: starting early on the API work could makes our group more attractive for developpers/browsers 
21:43:56 <VeroM> Felix: looking for volunteers for defining what we want to achieve in a top-down view
21:44:11 <VeroM> ... could take Frank's email as bases
21:44:11 <frank> I can do that - elaborate more
21:44:39 <VeroM> I would also interested in contributing
21:44:48 <frank> I put that on the wicki before the F2F
21:44:50 <raphael> I think there are different engineering models we could follow to develop the API
21:45:04 <js> show actions 
21:45:08 <raphael> ... an interesting one is the OWL API model, following the 'visitor' pattern
21:45:23 <VeroM> action: Frank and Vero to elaborate on the top-down approach about use cases
21:45:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-17 - And Vero to elaborate on the top-down approach about use cases [on Frank Nack - due 2008-10-21].
21:46:04 <js> rrsagent, show actions
21:46:04 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-actions.rdf :
21:46:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: reminder to find scribe for next calls [1]
21:46:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc#T21-05-13
21:46:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: all look at the draft of the planning for the f2f [2]
21:46:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc#T21-07-54
21:46:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Felix to confirm that there should be a presentation about IMM [3]
21:46:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc#T21-12-46
21:46:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Frank and Vero to elaborate on the top-down approach about use cases [4]
21:46:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc#T21-45-23
21:46:05 <VeroM> Felix: can you elaborte on what you mean by visitor pattern?
21:46:15 <raphael> The paper I'm talking about: "Cooking the Semantic Web with the OWL API"
21:46:40 <raphael> http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/phillip.lord/download/publications/cooking03.pdf
21:47:05 <VeroM> Felix: Raphael, do you want to present tis paper at the tpac meeting?
21:47:14 <raphael> Yes
21:47:36 <raphael> who has already use the Manchester OWL API in this group?
21:47:51 <raphael> I can explain the principles and some basic code 
21:48:01 <Zakim> -Felix
21:48:09 <frank> I have not
21:48:16 <VeroM> Felix: stays on IRC and we are free to continue the discussion for the time remaining
21:48:36 <wbailer> frank, i've a meeting early afternoon, but after 15.30 it us possible
21:48:39 <VeroM> I did not use it either
21:49:02 <VeroM> the Manchester OWL api
21:49:22 <hmiao> me too
21:50:45 <frank> Sounds like a good idea if Raphael explains the most important aspects of the Man. Api
21:50:47 <Zakim> -Joakim
21:51:36 <raphael> Felix, can you include in the agenda a time slot (20') for that?
21:52:43 <raphael> Are we in the AOB topic ?
21:53:17 <raphael> topic: AOB
21:53:36 <raphael> is there any other business or can we adjourn the telecon?
21:54:11 <frank> adjourn seems to be it
21:54:19 <raphael> ok, thanks all
21:54:24 <raphael> [adjourn]
21:54:34 <raphael> rrsagent, draft minutes
21:54:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
21:54:37 <Zakim> -Veronique
21:54:41 <raphael> rrsagent, make logs public
21:55:08 <Zakim> -Frank
21:55:21 <Zakim> -Davy
21:57:34 <Zakim> -Hui
21:57:35 <Zakim> IA_MAWG()5:00PM has ended
21:57:36 <Zakim> Attendees were Frank, Felix, Davy, Raphael, Joakim, Hui
22:09:50 <fsasaki> present+ Felix
22:09:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
22:11:06 <fsasaki> present+ Davy
22:11:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
22:11:40 <fsasaki> present+ Werner
22:11:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
22:11:57 <fsasaki> present+ Hui
22:12:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
22:24:55 <fsasaki> action:  Frank and others to elaborate on the top-down approach about use case
22:24:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-18 - And others to elaborate on the top-down approach about use case [on Frank Nack - due 2008-10-21].
22:25:30 <fsasaki> close ACTION-17
22:25:30 <trackbot> ACTION-17 And Vero to elaborate on the top-down approach about use cases closed
22:26:08 <fsasaki> action: Felix and others to look on the draft agenda for the TPAC meeting
22:26:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-19 - And others to look on the draft agenda for the TPAC meeting [on Felix Sasaki - due 2008-10-21].