IRC log of mediaann on 2008-10-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:54:18 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mediaann
20:54:18 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc
20:54:30 [fsasaki]
meeting: Media Annotations WG
20:54:39 [fsasaki]
chair: Felix
20:54:58 [fsasaki]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0043.html
20:55:03 [fsasaki]
rrsagent, make log public
20:56:09 [Zakim]
IA_MAWG()5:00PM has now started
20:56:16 [Zakim]
+Frank
20:56:44 [fsasaki]
regrets: tobias, vassilis, davy
20:56:52 [Zakim]
+Felix
20:57:57 [Zakim]
+Davy
20:58:50 [VeroM]
VeroM has joined #mediaann
21:00:11 [Zakim]
+??P9
21:01:04 [fsasaki]
present: Frank, Veronique, Frank, Raphael
21:01:40 [Zakim]
+??P10
21:01:43 [Zakim]
-Davy
21:01:43 [fsasaki]
scribe: Veronique
21:02:07 [fsasaki]
present+ Joakim
21:02:09 [Zakim]
+Davy
21:03:33 [fsasaki]
topic: Agenda review / approval of previous minutes
21:03:48 [cgi-irc]
cgi-irc has joined #mediaann
21:03:50 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0043.html
21:03:57 [raphael]
+1 for accepting the minutes
21:04:12 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-mediaann-minutes.html
21:04:12 [frank]
+1
21:04:15 [cgi-irc]
+1
21:04:19 [wbailer]
+1
21:04:34 [fsasaki]
previous minutes approved
21:04:38 [fsasaki]
topic: Selection of scribe for next meeting
21:05:13 [VeroM]
action: reminder to find scribe for next calls
21:05:13 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - reminder
21:05:17 [fsasaki]
topic: Future telephone conferences and f2f meetings / call time
21:05:28 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_(DRAFT
21:05:59 [cgi-irc]
zakim, ??P7 is Joakim"
21:05:59 [Zakim]
I already had ??P7 as Felix, cgi-irc
21:06:13 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_(DRAFT)
21:06:40 [cgi-irc]
zakim, who is here?
21:06:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Frank, Felix, Veronique, Joakim, Davy
21:06:41 [Zakim]
Veronique has Raphael
21:06:43 [Zakim]
On IRC I see cgi-irc, VeroM, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki, wbailer, frank, raphael, trackbot
21:07:54 [VeroM]
action: all look at the draft of the planning for the f2f
21:07:54 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - all
21:08:05 [cgi-irc]
zakim, what is [on] [the] agenda?
21:08:05 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, cgi-irc.
21:08:12 [frank]
The agenda sounds good to me. All depends what your idea is on 'discussion on use cases'.
21:08:14 [cgi-irc]
zakim, what is agenda?
21:08:14 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
21:09:54 [VeroM]
Frank: later, we should discuss the use cases further
21:11:12 [VeroM]
Felix: does someone want to present a specific format at the f2f?
21:11:49 [VeroM]
Felix: any volunteer for IMM?
21:12:40 [raphael]
I has a look at it today, I guess I could summarize the content
21:12:46 [VeroM]
action: Felix to confirm that there should be a presentation about IMM
21:12:47 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-16 - Confirm that there should be a presentation about IMM [on Felix Sasaki - due 2008-10-21].
21:13:20 [fsasaki]
topic: Action items
21:13:25 [raphael]
For me, it could be presented together with the IPTC photo metadata standard since there is a lot of overlap between these 2
21:13:58 [frank]
good idea
21:14:16 [cgi-irc]
rrsagent, show actions
21:14:16 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'show actions ', cgi-irc. Try /msg RRSAgent help
21:14:28 [cgi-irc]
rrsagent, show actions
21:14:28 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-actions.rdf :
21:14:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: reminder to find scribe for next calls [1]
21:14:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc#T21-05-13
21:14:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: all look at the draft of the planning for the f2f [2]
21:14:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc#T21-07-54
21:14:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Felix to confirm that there should be a presentation about IMM [3]
21:14:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc#T21-12-46
21:15:14 [raphael]
I volunteer for nothing ... but can improvise something the D day :-)
21:15:19 [hmiao]
hmiao has joined #mediaann
21:15:47 [Zakim]
+??P11
21:16:05 [hmiao]
hui
21:17:47 [VeroM]
Felix: propses to close action number 6
21:17:48 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-6
21:17:48 [trackbot]
ACTION-6 Check WG participant mailing list subscription mechanism to make sure that new participants are subscribed automatically closed
21:18:05 [cgi-irc]
zakim, what conference?
21:18:05 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, cgi-irc.
21:18:07 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-14
21:18:07 [trackbot]
ACTION-14 Add text on video uc closed
21:18:45 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-15
21:18:45 [trackbot]
ACTION-15 Elaborate on mobile uc closed
21:19:03 [raphael]
q+
21:20:16 [raphael]
zakim, ack me
21:20:16 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
21:20:32 [fsasaki]
topic: Editing
21:20:56 [VeroM]
Felix did drafts on the wiki
21:21:11 [VeroM]
Felix: still looking for editors
21:21:30 [fsasaki]
topic: Open issues
21:21:33 [VeroM]
Felix: keep it in mind
21:22:23 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Main_Page#Use_Cases__and_Requirements
21:22:31 [VeroM]
Felix: discuss what Frank and Raphael after the discussion of the existing use cases
21:22:42 [VeroM]
Felix: if time
21:23:09 [VeroM]
Felix: thanks to the contributors, are there any comments?
21:24:07 [VeroM]
Felix: differ the discussion about the IMM to the tpac meeting
21:24:18 [fsasaki]
s/differ/defer/
21:24:31 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0041.html
21:25:42 [VeroM]
Felix: discussion about the tasks about which we can think of
21:26:01 [VeroM]
Frank: very general tasks in some use cases
21:26:10 [VeroM]
Frank: like search
21:26:45 [VeroM]
Frank: but also particular tasks for particular contexts and media
21:26:59 [VeroM]
Frank: which will not occur often
21:27:55 [VeroM]
Frank: separate tasks from processes to define better what elementary tasks we should enable to describe
21:28:42 [VeroM]
Frank: example of the mobile example
21:29:06 [VeroM]
Frank: 1st part about geotagging, automatically done
21:29:24 [VeroM]
Frank: do we describe the location or the geo tag?
21:29:54 [frank]
Excellent idea - very much what I had in mind
21:30:16 [VeroM]
?? use the use case description as a general container, check box
21:31:41 [VeroM]
?? says that the general question is how far do we go in the description
21:31:54 [fsasaki]
s/??/joakim/
21:32:18 [VeroM]
?? says that descriptions shouls enable us to make pocesses work
21:32:45 [raphael]
s/shouls/should
21:32:54 [VeroM]
Felix: bottom up vs top down approache
21:33:30 [VeroM]
Felix: some people could try both appraches and see if we can meet in the middle
21:33:44 [frank]
I like Felix idea of double direction approach
21:33:55 [VeroM]
Felix: top down should lead to a minimal set of tasks
21:34:04 [hmiao]
+1 to both
21:34:20 [VeroM]
Felix: we can als start to work on the API
21:35:03 [VeroM]
Felix: concrete effort related to the API could also bring a new view
21:35:23 [VeroM]
Felix: developpers's need to search in video
21:35:54 [VeroM]
... is a point of view that could be taken into account
21:36:08 [wbailer]
not sure if bottom up requires that we also start with the API - the basic methods are probably simple getter/setter for metadata elements available in many vocabularies
21:36:19 [js]
js has joined #mediaann
21:36:44 [js]
rrsagent, show actions
21:36:44 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'show actions ', js. Try /msg RRSAgent help
21:37:18 [js]
zakim, who is here?
21:37:18 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Frank, Felix, Veronique, Joakim, Davy, Hui
21:37:19 [Zakim]
Veronique has Raphael
21:37:21 [Zakim]
On IRC I see js, hmiao, cgi-irc, VeroM, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki, wbailer, frank, raphael, trackbot
21:38:06 [VeroM]
Felix: what is your opinion about working on the api already?
21:38:32 [VeroM]
Felix: in parallel to the ontology, top-down approach?
21:39:04 [raphael]
I tend to think like Werner ... I think it is preferrable to start working on the API once a first draft of the ontoloy exists ... after TPAC
21:39:10 [raphael]
... but before the end of the year
21:39:12 [js]
zakim, what is agenda?
21:39:12 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
21:39:24 [VeroM]
?? says that we should first maybe collect more use cases to define the purpose of the API better
21:39:53 [frank]
I am in favor of working on the API now - might help shaping the ongoing discussion due to its practicality
21:39:57 [hmiao]
s/??/hui
21:40:05 [VeroM]
Felix: starting from the API side gives a concrete application to the ontology to be developped
21:40:08 [raphael]
The purpose of the API is pretty clear: provide a programmatic access to the metadata represented by the ontology
21:40:52 [js]
zakim, what conference is this?
21:40:52 [Zakim]
this is IA_MAWG()5:00PM conference code 6294
21:42:13 [raphael]
being sexy to the developers world is an argument I can buy :-)
21:43:23 [js]
zakim, who is on the phone?
21:43:23 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Frank, Felix, Veronique, Joakim, Davy, Hui
21:43:24 [Zakim]
Veronique has Raphael
21:43:26 [VeroM]
Felix: starting early on the API work could makes our group more attractive for developpers/browsers
21:43:56 [VeroM]
Felix: looking for volunteers for defining what we want to achieve in a top-down view
21:44:11 [VeroM]
... could take Frank's email as bases
21:44:11 [frank]
I can do that - elaborate more
21:44:39 [VeroM]
I would also interested in contributing
21:44:48 [frank]
I put that on the wicki before the F2F
21:44:50 [raphael]
I think there are different engineering models we could follow to develop the API
21:45:04 [js]
show actions
21:45:08 [raphael]
... an interesting one is the OWL API model, following the 'visitor' pattern
21:45:23 [VeroM]
action: Frank and Vero to elaborate on the top-down approach about use cases
21:45:23 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-17 - And Vero to elaborate on the top-down approach about use cases [on Frank Nack - due 2008-10-21].
21:46:04 [js]
rrsagent, show actions
21:46:04 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-actions.rdf :
21:46:04 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: reminder to find scribe for next calls [1]
21:46:04 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc#T21-05-13
21:46:04 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: all look at the draft of the planning for the f2f [2]
21:46:04 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc#T21-07-54
21:46:04 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Felix to confirm that there should be a presentation about IMM [3]
21:46:04 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc#T21-12-46
21:46:04 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Frank and Vero to elaborate on the top-down approach about use cases [4]
21:46:04 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-irc#T21-45-23
21:46:05 [VeroM]
Felix: can you elaborte on what you mean by visitor pattern?
21:46:15 [raphael]
The paper I'm talking about: "Cooking the Semantic Web with the OWL API"
21:46:40 [raphael]
http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/phillip.lord/download/publications/cooking03.pdf
21:47:05 [VeroM]
Felix: Raphael, do you want to present tis paper at the tpac meeting?
21:47:14 [raphael]
Yes
21:47:36 [raphael]
who has already use the Manchester OWL API in this group?
21:47:51 [raphael]
I can explain the principles and some basic code
21:48:01 [Zakim]
-Felix
21:48:09 [frank]
I have not
21:48:16 [VeroM]
Felix: stays on IRC and we are free to continue the discussion for the time remaining
21:48:36 [wbailer]
frank, i've a meeting early afternoon, but after 15.30 it us possible
21:48:39 [VeroM]
I did not use it either
21:49:02 [VeroM]
the Manchester OWL api
21:49:22 [hmiao]
me too
21:50:45 [frank]
Sounds like a good idea if Raphael explains the most important aspects of the Man. Api
21:50:47 [Zakim]
-Joakim
21:51:36 [raphael]
Felix, can you include in the agenda a time slot (20') for that?
21:52:43 [raphael]
Are we in the AOB topic ?
21:53:17 [raphael]
topic: AOB
21:54:11 [frank]
adjourn seems to be it
21:54:19 [raphael]
ok, thanks all
21:54:24 [raphael]
[adjourn]
21:54:34 [raphael]
rrsagent, draft minutes
21:54:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
21:54:37 [Zakim]
-Veronique
21:54:41 [raphael]
rrsagent, make logs public
21:55:08 [Zakim]
-Frank
21:55:21 [Zakim]
-Davy
21:57:34 [Zakim]
-Hui
21:57:35 [Zakim]
IA_MAWG()5:00PM has ended
21:57:36 [Zakim]
Attendees were Frank, Felix, Davy, Raphael, Joakim, Hui
22:09:50 [fsasaki]
present+ Felix
22:09:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
22:11:06 [fsasaki]
present+ Davy
22:11:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
22:11:40 [fsasaki]
present+ Werner
22:11:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
22:11:57 [fsasaki]
present+ Hui
22:12:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
22:24:55 [fsasaki]
action: Frank and others to elaborate on the top-down approach about use case
22:24:55 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-18 - And others to elaborate on the top-down approach about use case [on Frank Nack - due 2008-10-21].
22:25:30 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-17
22:25:30 [trackbot]
ACTION-17 And Vero to elaborate on the top-down approach about use cases closed
22:26:08 [fsasaki]
action: Felix and others to look on the draft agenda for the TPAC meeting
22:26:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-19 - And others to look on the draft agenda for the TPAC meeting [on Felix Sasaki - due 2008-10-21].