IRC log of wam on 2008-10-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:01:27 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wam
11:01:27 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-irc
11:01:28 [MikeSmith]
trackbot, start meeting
11:01:29 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
11:01:29 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #wam
11:01:31 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAPP
11:01:31 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
11:01:32 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
11:01:32 [trackbot]
Date: 09 October 2008
11:01:36 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
11:01:38 [MikeSmith]
WAPP?
11:01:40 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAPP
11:01:40 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
11:01:42 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
11:01:44 [trackbot]
Date: 09 October 2008
11:01:51 [tlr]
zakim, this will be wam
11:01:51 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, tlr
11:01:55 [tlr]
zakim, show conferences
11:01:55 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'show conferences', tlr
11:01:59 [tlr]
zakim, list conferences
11:01:59 [Zakim]
I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM, IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM active
11:02:01 [Zakim]
also scheduled at this time is VB_SSML()7:00AM
11:02:07 [tlr]
wtf
11:02:11 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, list conferences
11:02:11 [Zakim]
I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM, IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM active
11:02:13 [Zakim]
also scheduled at this time is VB_SSML()7:00AM
11:02:35 [ArtB]
zakim, this is widgets
11:02:35 [Zakim]
ok, ArtB; that matches IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM
11:02:35 [tlr]
gah,IA_WebApps(Widgets)
11:02:37 [tlr]
zakim, this will be widgets
11:02:37 [Zakim]
ok, tlr, I see IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM already started
11:02:39 [mpriestl]
mpriestl has joined #wam
11:02:43 [tlr]
zakim, call thomas-781
11:02:43 [Zakim]
ok, tlr; the call is being made
11:02:45 [Zakim]
+Thomas
11:02:57 [tlr]
zakim, who is on the phone?
11:02:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Caroline, Art_Barstow, Thomas
11:03:02 [ArtB]
Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference
11:03:04 [tlr]
ugh
11:03:05 [ArtB]
Chair: Art
11:03:09 [ArtB]
Scribe: Art
11:03:11 [Zakim]
-Thomas
11:03:13 [ArtB]
ScribeNick: ArtB
11:03:13 [Zakim]
+??P5
11:03:22 [marcos]
zakin, ??P5 is I
11:03:22 [tlr]
zakim, call thomas-skype
11:03:22 [Zakim]
ok, tlr; the call is being made
11:03:23 [Zakim]
+Thomas
11:03:39 [marcos]
zakim, ??P5 is I
11:03:39 [Zakim]
+marcos; got it
11:03:44 [ArtB]
Regrets: DavidR
11:03:45 [arve]
arve has joined #wam
11:03:47 [Zakim]
+ +39.011.228.aaaa
11:03:48 [tlr]
zakim, I am thomas
11:03:48 [Zakim]
ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas
11:03:49 [tlr]
zakim, mute me
11:03:49 [Zakim]
Thomas should now be muted
11:04:04 [Zakim]
+ +44.771.751.aabb
11:04:07 [Zakim]
+??P8
11:04:08 [claudio]
claudio has joined #wam
11:04:16 [ArtB]
zakim, aabb is Mark
11:04:16 [Zakim]
+Mark; got it
11:04:16 [arve]
Zakim, PP8 is me
11:04:17 [Zakim]
sorry, arve, I do not recognize a party named 'PP8'
11:04:19 [Zakim]
-Caroline
11:04:24 [arve]
Zakim, P8 is me
11:04:24 [Zakim]
sorry, arve, I do not recognize a party named 'P8'
11:04:27 [arve]
Zakim, ??P8 is me
11:04:27 [Zakim]
+arve; got it
11:04:38 [arve]
[I'll never get Zakim's syntax right]
11:04:43 [Zakim]
+Caroline
11:05:01 [ArtB]
Present: Art, Arve, Benoit, Mark, Marcos, Thomas, Claudio
11:05:32 [ArtB]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0051.html
11:05:42 [ArtB]
Topic: Agenda Tweaking
11:05:50 [ArtB]
AB: any change requests for the agenda?
11:05:52 [ArtB]
[None]
11:06:00 [ArtB]
Topic: Annoucements
11:06:10 [ArtB]
AB: any annoucements?
11:07:21 [tlr]
zakim, unmute me
11:07:21 [Zakim]
Thomas should no longer be muted
11:08:01 [ArtB]
[None]
11:08:08 [ArtB]
Topic: API and Events spec
11:08:14 [ArtB]
AB: Arve, what's the status?
11:08:28 [ArtB]
Arve: I think we are ready to publish
11:08:47 [ArtB]
... I haven't done much since last week except to remove prefs API
11:08:55 [ArtB]
... I need some help getting it "pub ready"
11:09:16 [ArtB]
ACTION: Barstow talk to Mike about helping Arve getting the API and Events spec "pub ready"
11:09:17 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-254 - Talk to Mike about helping Arve getting the API and Events spec \"pub ready\" [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-10-16].
11:09:23 [MikeSmith]
hai
11:09:34 [MikeSmith]
I can deal with that of course
11:09:40 [ArtB]
Arve: HTML5 defines a similar API
11:09:53 [ArtB]
... but the semantics and UCs are a bit diff
11:10:02 [ArtB]
... e.g. showNotification
11:10:45 [ArtB]
ACTION: Barstow submit FPWD request for API and Events spec
11:10:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-255 - Submit FPWD request for API and Events spec [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-10-16].
11:11:04 [ArtB]
Topic: DigSig spec
11:11:33 [ArtB]
AB: what's the status Mark and Marcos?
11:11:42 [ArtB]
MC: we haven't done any work in the last week
11:11:55 [ArtB]
AB: where is this in your priorities Mark and Marcos?
11:12:00 [ArtB]
MC: my priority is the P&C spec
11:12:06 [ArtB]
... but I can help Mark
11:12:27 [ArtB]
MP: from the VF and BONDI point of view, we want to use the DigSig spec
11:12:34 [ArtB]
... it is important to progress it
11:12:48 [ArtB]
... I hope to do some work on it next week
11:13:05 [ArtB]
... it is a priority for us
11:13:30 [ArtB]
MC: the P&C spec is being update to include multiple signatures
11:14:06 [ArtB]
... If Mark could start a dialog with XMLSec WG that could help
11:15:41 [ArtB]
AB: it would be good to get more specific on the agenda for our joint meeting
11:15:52 [ArtB]
MC: I have some questions for them re our model
11:15:54 [tlr]
zakim, mute me
11:15:54 [Zakim]
Thomas should now be muted
11:17:04 [tlr]
+1 to having specific issues. However, note that I won't have much bandwidth available between now and TPAC.
11:17:13 [ArtB]
AB: I would like MC and MP to be prepared to drive the discussion with XML Sec WG
11:17:23 [tlr]
nope
11:17:32 [ArtB]
... we want specific questions, in advance if possible
11:18:05 [ArtB]
AB: what is the status of the latest ED http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-digsig/ - says May 27
11:18:25 [ArtB]
... do you have a copy that reflects discussions in Turin
11:18:51 [tlr]
s/nope//
11:19:05 [ArtB]
MC: we have done some brainstorming but haven't put those ideas into CVS
11:19:31 [ArtB]
AB: will there be an update before the f2f meeting?
11:19:41 [ArtB]
MC: yes; at a min we will add some UC data
11:20:49 [ArtB]
... I will need Mark's help
11:21:39 [ArtB]
Topic: I18N issue
11:21:49 [MikeSmith]
RRSAgent, please make minutes
11:21:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-minutes.html MikeSmith
11:22:16 [ArtB]
AB: have you Marcos and Felix converged on a solution?
11:22:52 [ArtB]
MC: Felix provided some good feedback re ITS
11:23:04 [ArtB]
... I added optional support for ITS to the ED
11:23:14 [ArtB]
... Felix says my latest changes are OK
11:23:33 [ArtB]
... he recommended some minor changes in the Relax NG schema and I've added those
11:23:51 [ArtB]
AB: can we now close this issue i.e. ISSUE #46?
11:24:14 [ArtB]
... http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/46
11:24:37 [ArtB]
MC: no I don't think we can close this yet
11:24:48 [ArtB]
... want to make sure I18N WG is OK with our solution
11:25:19 [ArtB]
Topic: widget URI scheme aka Issue #16
11:26:38 [ArtB]
AB: we will meet with some TAG members on Monday Oct 20 14:00-15:00 to discuss this issue
11:26:53 [ArtB]
MC: I have been responding to Mark Baker's comments
11:27:14 [marcos]
widget-uri = "http://" widget-engine [":" instance-id] "/"package-name path-absolute ["#" fragment]
11:27:42 [mpriestl]
mpriestl has joined #wam
11:27:44 [marcos]
zakim, who is making noise?
11:27:50 [ArtB]
Arve: this seems like a breakage with HTTP
11:27:55 [Zakim]
marcos, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 7 (9%), +39.011.228.aaaa (38%), arve (51%)
11:28:06 [tlr]
zakim, unmute me
11:28:06 [Zakim]
Thomas should no longer be muted
11:28:06 [tlr]
q+
11:28:14 [marcos]
zakim, mute +39.011.228.aaaa
11:28:14 [Zakim]
+39.011.228.aaaa should now be muted
11:28:28 [ArtB]
... I think using this is a locator issue
11:28:38 [ArtB]
Arve: I think file: has lots of problems
11:28:47 [ArtB]
... e.g. not interoperable in current browsers
11:29:02 [ArtB]
... as well as no formal definition
11:29:23 [ArtB]
... it is also overloaded in Windows (e.g. file share)
11:29:35 [marcos]
MC: your arguments are reflected here http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-hoffman-file-uri-03.txt
11:30:01 [ArtB]
TR: http URI as posted by Marcos is broken
11:30:13 [ArtB]
... uses a domain-based authority
11:30:23 [ArtB]
... but it isn't domain-based
11:31:05 [arve]
marcos: yes
11:31:25 [ArtB]
TR: if the HTTP URI scheme could be used would facilitate Widgets and Gadgets
11:31:38 [ArtB]
... think we need to consider this more
11:31:41 [tlr]
zakim, mute me
11:31:41 [Zakim]
Thomas should now be muted
11:32:35 [tlr]
ack me
11:32:39 [ArtB]
MC: want to know if my example is broken or not
11:32:49 [ArtB]
Arve: there are lots of servers that respond to localhost
11:33:44 [tlr]
zakim, mute me
11:33:44 [Zakim]
Thomas should now be muted
11:34:03 [tlr]
zakim, unmute me
11:34:03 [Zakim]
Thomas should no longer be muted
11:34:07 [ArtB]
MC: the arch question - is what is the origin
11:34:49 [ArtB]
... are the pieces addressable on the web
11:35:06 [tlr]
zakim, mute me
11:35:06 [Zakim]
Thomas should now be muted
11:35:15 [ArtB]
... Could be useful to compare the various design options
11:35:18 [tlr]
zakim, unmute me
11:35:18 [Zakim]
Thomas should no longer be muted
11:35:31 [tlr]
zakim, mute me
11:35:31 [Zakim]
Thomas should now be muted
11:35:55 [tlr]
zakim, unmute me
11:35:55 [Zakim]
Thomas should no longer be muted
11:36:23 [ArtB]
TR: is the widget addressable through http or not
11:36:40 [ArtB]
Arve: some widgets may never be served over http
11:36:48 [ArtB]
... e.g. are installed on a device
11:37:03 [ArtB]
TR: but that wouldn't preclude use of http uri
11:37:13 [ArtB]
... could still mint something
11:37:32 [ArtB]
... the configuration file could address the issue
11:37:55 [ArtB]
... It isn't so much about whether the widget is download-able from the Web
11:38:05 [ArtB]
... but more about identification via URIs
11:38:55 [tlr]
zakim, mute me
11:38:55 [Zakim]
Thomas should now be muted
11:39:23 [tlr]
I don't think I have an answer, and I suspect it will be useful for Arve, MArcos and myself to sit down with a piece of paper or a whiteboard
11:40:44 [tlr]
+1 to Art
11:41:03 [ArtB]
AB: want to get a plan for using the time with the TAG wisely
11:41:23 [ArtB]
... seems like we need to start with a high level discussion of our UC and our Reqs
11:41:32 [ArtB]
... and then talk about different ways to address those reqs
11:42:13 [ArtB]
AB: do we have a clear UC and Reqs?
11:42:52 [ArtB]
MC: I think the reqs doc provides sufficient information
11:42:52 [marcos]
http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-reqs/#r6.-addressing
11:43:44 [tlr]
cid:
11:43:45 [tlr]
http:
11:43:47 [tlr]
file:
11:43:49 [ArtB]
MC: I can present the various solutions
11:43:56 [ArtB]
... and explain why they don't work for us
11:45:05 [ArtB]
AB: OK, that's the plan then
11:45:15 [ArtB]
Topic: Widget Testing
11:45:53 [ArtB]
AB: we have at least Carmelo and others from MWTS WG to join us
11:46:07 [ArtB]
MC: do we need to create some reqs?
11:46:17 [ArtB]
AB: what do people think?
11:46:33 [ArtB]
... I don't think that is a high priority
11:46:53 [ArtB]
... but that may be one of Carmelo's first questions to us
11:47:07 [ArtB]
MC: thinking about things like automated harness, etc.
11:47:17 [ArtB]
... what methodology do we want to use?
11:47:25 [ArtB]
... CSS has a model we could use
11:47:47 [ArtB]
... Naming conventions, ...
11:47:57 [ArtB]
... I think we need some guidance
11:48:53 [marcos]
MC: will it be a web based thing? or just a bunch of files that can be downloaded?
11:49:36 [ArtB]
Topic: Requirement doc - Req #21 - New req "Feature Access Declarations"
11:50:12 [ArtB]
AB: Marcos proposed this new req: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0053.html
11:50:18 [marcos]
http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-reqs/#r21.-
11:50:43 [tlr]
q+ to ask that Marcos present this at the December workshop
11:51:01 [tlr]
zakim, unmute me
11:51:01 [Zakim]
Thomas should no longer be muted
11:51:07 [ArtB]
MC: the basic idea is to rationalize the <feature> element we've added to the P&C spec
11:51:15 [tlr]
zakim, mute me
11:51:15 [Zakim]
Thomas should now be muted
11:51:29 [mpriestl]
q=
11:51:32 [ArtB]
TR: please present this in the December secuity WS
11:51:37 [mpriestl]
q+
11:51:49 [ArtB]
AB: are you planning a PP for that WS Marcos?
11:51:50 [tlr]
marcos++
11:51:52 [tlr]
marcos++
11:51:54 [tlr]
;-)
11:51:58 [ArtB]
MC: yes
11:53:17 [ArtB]
MP: last call there was discussion about access element and feature element
11:53:41 [ArtB]
... we have had discussion about that in BONDI and VF and can share that during the upcoming f2f meeting
11:54:13 [ArtB]
AB: send comments to the mail list; Marcos has already added this to the ED
11:54:34 [ArtB]
Topic: Requirements LC #2
11:54:48 [ArtB]
AB: deadline for comments is October 13
11:55:02 [ArtB]
... what is the rate of comments?
11:55:12 [ArtB]
MC: only Krzy has responded
11:55:22 [ArtB]
... we could ping David Orchard
11:55:28 [ArtB]
... TR said it looks OK
11:56:08 [ArtB]
ACTION: Barstow ask David Orchard (again) to review Requirement LC #2
11:56:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-256 - Ask David Orchard (again) to review Requirement LC #2 [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-10-16].
11:56:40 [ArtB]
AB: what changes have you made?
11:56:49 [ArtB]
MC: not too many
11:56:56 [ArtB]
... the only new req is #21
11:57:19 [ArtB]
Topic: AOB
11:57:31 [tlr]
ack tlr
11:57:36 [tlr]
ack thomas
11:57:37 [Zakim]
Thomas, you wanted to ask that Marcos present this at the December workshop
11:57:44 [ArtB]
AB: any : any topics?
11:58:06 [ArtB]
TR: please drum up support from the WS
11:58:08 [tlr]
zakim, mute me
11:58:08 [Zakim]
Thomas should now be muted
11:58:19 [ArtB]
... not just from you and your company but otherss outside of W3C are welcome
11:58:37 [tlr]
ack thomas
11:58:46 [ArtB]
AB: what is the deadlien for PP?
11:58:49 [ArtB]
TR: October 30
11:58:59 [tlr]
zakim, mute me
11:58:59 [Zakim]
Thomas should now be muted
11:59:05 [tlr]
zakim, unmute me
11:59:05 [Zakim]
Thomas should no longer be muted
11:59:36 [ArtB]
TR: the level of interest has been rising
11:59:48 [ArtB]
... now have MS and Google on the Program Committee
11:59:57 [tlr]
zakim, mute me
11:59:57 [Zakim]
Thomas should now be muted
12:00:30 [ArtB]
AB: meeting adjourned
12:00:33 [Zakim]
-Caroline
12:00:34 [Zakim]
-Mark
12:00:35 [Zakim]
-arve
12:00:36 [Zakim]
-Art_Barstow
12:00:37 [Zakim]
-Thomas
12:00:37 [Zakim]
- +39.011.228.aaaa
12:00:56 [Zakim]
-marcos
12:00:57 [Zakim]
IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM has ended
12:00:58 [Zakim]
Attendees were Caroline, Art_Barstow, Thomas, marcos, +39.011.228.aaaa, +44.771.751.aabb, Mark, arve
12:01:02 [ArtB]
RRSAgent: make log public
12:01:22 [ArtB]
rrsagent: make minutes
12:01:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-minutes.html ArtB
12:11:08 [arve]
arve has left #wam
13:40:33 [ArtB]
s/Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference/Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference/
13:40:43 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
13:40:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-minutes.html ArtB
14:04:02 [ArtB]
rrsagent, bye
14:04:02 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-actions.rdf :
14:04:02 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Barstow talk to Mike about helping Arve getting the API and Events spec "pub ready" [1]
14:04:02 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-irc#T11-09-16
14:04:02 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Barstow submit FPWD request for API and Events spec [2]
14:04:02 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-irc#T11-10-45
14:04:02 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Barstow ask David Orchard (again) to review Requirement LC #2 [3]
14:04:02 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-irc#T11-56-08