11:01:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wam
11:01:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-irc
11:01:28 <MikeSmith> trackbot, start meeting
11:01:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:01:29 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wam
11:01:31 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAPP
11:01:31 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
11:01:32 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
11:01:32 <trackbot> Date: 09 October 2008
11:01:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:01:38 <MikeSmith> WAPP?
11:01:40 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAPP
11:01:40 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
11:01:42 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
11:01:44 <trackbot> Date: 09 October 2008
11:01:51 <tlr> zakim, this will be wam
11:01:51 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, tlr
11:01:55 <tlr> zakim, show conferences
11:01:55 <Zakim> I don't understand 'show conferences', tlr
11:01:59 <tlr> zakim, list conferences
11:01:59 <Zakim> I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM, IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM active
11:02:01 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time is VB_SSML()7:00AM
11:02:07 <tlr> wtf
11:02:11 <MikeSmith> Zakim, list conferences
11:02:11 <Zakim> I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM, IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM active
11:02:13 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time is VB_SSML()7:00AM
11:02:35 <ArtB> zakim, this is widgets
11:02:35 <Zakim> ok, ArtB; that matches IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM
11:02:35 <tlr> gah,IA_WebApps(Widgets)
11:02:37 <tlr> zakim, this will be widgets
11:02:37 <Zakim> ok, tlr, I see IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM already started
11:02:39 <mpriestl> mpriestl has joined #wam
11:02:43 <tlr> zakim, call thomas-781
11:02:43 <Zakim> ok, tlr; the call is being made
11:02:45 <Zakim> +Thomas
11:02:57 <tlr> zakim, who is on the phone?
11:02:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see Caroline, Art_Barstow, Thomas
11:03:02 <ArtB> Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference
11:03:04 <tlr> ugh
11:03:05 <ArtB> Chair: Art
11:03:09 <ArtB> Scribe: Art
11:03:11 <Zakim> -Thomas
11:03:13 <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
11:03:13 <Zakim> +??P5
11:03:22 <marcos> zakin, ??P5 is I
11:03:22 <tlr> zakim, call thomas-skype
11:03:22 <Zakim> ok, tlr; the call is being made
11:03:23 <Zakim> +Thomas
11:03:39 <marcos> zakim, ??P5 is I
11:03:39 <Zakim> +marcos; got it
11:03:44 <ArtB> Regrets: DavidR
11:03:45 <arve> arve has joined #wam
11:03:47 <Zakim> + +39.011.228.aaaa
11:03:48 <tlr> zakim, I am thomas
11:03:48 <Zakim> ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas
11:03:49 <tlr> zakim, mute me
11:03:49 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
11:04:04 <Zakim> + +44.771.751.aabb
11:04:07 <Zakim> +??P8
11:04:08 <claudio> claudio has joined #wam
11:04:16 <ArtB> zakim, aabb is Mark
11:04:16 <Zakim> +Mark; got it
11:04:16 <arve> Zakim, PP8 is me
11:04:17 <Zakim> sorry, arve, I do not recognize a party named 'PP8'
11:04:19 <Zakim> -Caroline
11:04:24 <arve> Zakim, P8 is me
11:04:24 <Zakim> sorry, arve, I do not recognize a party named 'P8'
11:04:27 <arve> Zakim, ??P8 is me
11:04:27 <Zakim> +arve; got it
11:04:38 <arve> [I'll never get Zakim's syntax right]
11:04:43 <Zakim> +Caroline
11:05:01 <ArtB> Present: Art, Arve, Benoit, Mark, Marcos, Thomas, Claudio
11:05:32 <ArtB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0051.html
11:05:42 <ArtB> Topic: Agenda Tweaking
11:05:50 <ArtB> AB: any change requests for the agenda?
11:05:52 <ArtB> [None]
11:06:00 <ArtB> Topic: Annoucements
11:06:10 <ArtB> AB: any annoucements?
11:07:21 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
11:07:21 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
11:08:01 <ArtB> [None]
11:08:08 <ArtB> Topic: API and Events spec
11:08:14 <ArtB> AB: Arve, what's the status?
11:08:28 <ArtB> Arve: I think we are ready to publish
11:08:47 <ArtB> ... I haven't done much since last week except to remove prefs API
11:08:55 <ArtB> ... I need some help getting it "pub ready"
11:09:16 <ArtB> ACTION: Barstow talk to Mike about helping Arve getting the API and Events spec "pub ready"
11:09:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-254 - Talk to Mike about helping Arve getting the API and Events spec \"pub ready\" [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-10-16].
11:09:23 <MikeSmith> hai
11:09:34 <MikeSmith> I can deal with that of course
11:09:40 <ArtB> Arve: HTML5 defines a similar API
11:09:53 <ArtB> ... but the semantics and UCs are a bit diff
11:10:02 <ArtB> ... e.g. showNotification
11:10:45 <ArtB> ACTION: Barstow submit FPWD request for API and Events spec
11:10:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-255 - Submit FPWD request for API and Events spec [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-10-16].
11:11:04 <ArtB> Topic: DigSig spec
11:11:33 <ArtB> AB: what's the status Mark and Marcos?
11:11:42 <ArtB> MC: we haven't done any work in the last week
11:11:55 <ArtB> AB: where is this in your priorities Mark and Marcos?
11:12:00 <ArtB> MC: my priority is the P&C spec
11:12:06 <ArtB> ... but I can help Mark
11:12:27 <ArtB> MP: from the VF and BONDI point of view, we want to use the DigSig spec
11:12:34 <ArtB> ... it is important to progress it
11:12:48 <ArtB> ... I hope to do some work on it next week
11:13:05 <ArtB> ... it is a priority for us
11:13:30 <ArtB> MC: the P&C spec is being update to include multiple signatures
11:14:06 <ArtB> ... If Mark could start a dialog with XMLSec WG that could help
11:15:41 <ArtB> AB: it would be good to get more specific  on the agenda for our joint meeting
11:15:52 <ArtB> MC: I have some questions for them re our model
11:15:54 <tlr> zakim, mute me
11:15:54 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
11:17:04 <tlr> +1 to having specific issues. However, note that I won't have much bandwidth available between now and TPAC.
11:17:13 <ArtB> AB: I would like MC and MP to be prepared to drive the discussion with XML Sec WG 
11:17:23 <tlr> nope
11:17:32 <ArtB> ... we want specific questions, in advance if possible
11:18:05 <ArtB> AB: what is the status of the latest ED http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-digsig/ - says May 27
11:18:25 <ArtB> ... do you have a copy that reflects discussions in Turin
11:18:51 <tlr> s/nope//
11:19:05 <ArtB> MC: we have done some brainstorming but haven't put those ideas into CVS
11:19:31 <ArtB> AB: will there be an update before the f2f meeting?
11:19:41 <ArtB> MC: yes; at a min we will add some UC data
11:20:49 <ArtB> ... I will need Mark's help
11:21:39 <ArtB> Topic: I18N issue
11:21:49 <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, please make minutes
11:21:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-minutes.html MikeSmith
11:22:16 <ArtB> AB: have you Marcos and Felix converged on a solution?
11:22:52 <ArtB> MC: Felix provided some good feedback re ITS
11:23:04 <ArtB> ... I added optional support for ITS to the ED
11:23:14 <ArtB> ... Felix says my latest changes are OK
11:23:33 <ArtB> ... he recommended some minor changes in the Relax NG schema and I've added those
11:23:51 <ArtB> AB: can we now close this issue i.e. ISSUE #46?
11:24:14 <ArtB> ... http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/46
11:24:37 <ArtB> MC: no I don't think we can close this yet
11:24:48 <ArtB> ... want to make sure I18N WG is OK with our solution
11:25:19 <ArtB> Topic: widget URI scheme aka Issue #16
11:26:38 <ArtB> AB: we will meet with some TAG members on Monday Oct 20 14:00-15:00 to discuss this issue
11:26:53 <ArtB> MC: I have been responding to Mark Baker's comments
11:27:14 <marcos> widget-uri = "http://" widget-engine [":" instance-id] "/"package-name path-absolute ["#" fragment]
11:27:42 <mpriestl> mpriestl has joined #wam
11:27:44 <marcos> zakim, who is making noise?
11:27:50 <ArtB> Arve: this seems like a breakage with HTTP
11:27:55 <Zakim> marcos, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 7 (9%), +39.011.228.aaaa (38%), arve (51%)
11:28:06 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
11:28:06 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
11:28:06 <tlr> q+
11:28:14 <marcos> zakim, mute +39.011.228.aaaa
11:28:14 <Zakim> +39.011.228.aaaa should now be muted
11:28:28 <ArtB> ... I think using this is a locator issue
11:28:38 <ArtB> Arve: I think file: has lots of problems
11:28:47 <ArtB> ... e.g. not interoperable in current browsers
11:29:02 <ArtB> ... as well as no formal definition
11:29:23 <ArtB> ... it is also overloaded in Windows (e.g. file share)
11:29:35 <marcos> MC: your arguments are reflected here http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-hoffman-file-uri-03.txt
11:30:01 <ArtB> TR: http URI as posted by Marcos is broken
11:30:13 <ArtB> ... uses a domain-based authority
11:30:23 <ArtB> ... but it isn't domain-based
11:31:05 <arve> marcos: yes
11:31:25 <ArtB> TR: if the HTTP URI scheme could be used would facilitate Widgets and Gadgets
11:31:38 <ArtB> ... think we need to consider this more
11:31:41 <tlr> zakim, mute me
11:31:41 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
11:32:35 <tlr> ack me
11:32:39 <ArtB> MC: want to know if my example is broken or not
11:32:49 <ArtB> Arve: there are lots of servers that respond to localhost
11:33:44 <tlr> zakim, mute me
11:33:44 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
11:34:03 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
11:34:03 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
11:34:07 <ArtB> MC: the arch question - is what is the origin
11:34:36 <ArtB> TR: does a widget have a canonical location
11:34:49 <ArtB> ... are the pieces addressable on the web
11:35:06 <tlr> zakim, mute me
11:35:06 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
11:35:15 <ArtB> ... Could be useful to compare the various design options
11:35:18 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
11:35:18 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
11:35:31 <tlr> zakim, mute me
11:35:31 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
11:35:55 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
11:35:55 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
11:36:23 <ArtB> TR: is the widget addressable through http or not
11:36:40 <ArtB> Arve: some widgets may never be served over http
11:36:48 <ArtB> ... e.g. are installed on a device
11:37:03 <ArtB> TR: but that wouldn't preclude use of http uri
11:37:13 <ArtB> ... could still mint something
11:37:32 <ArtB> ... the configuration file could address the issue
11:37:55 <ArtB> ... It isn't so much about whether the widget is download-able from the Web
11:38:05 <ArtB> ... but more about identification via URIs
11:38:55 <tlr> zakim, mute me
11:38:55 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
11:39:23 <tlr> I don't think I have an answer, and I suspect it will be useful for Arve, MArcos and myself to sit down with a piece of paper or a whiteboard
11:40:44 <tlr> +1 to Art
11:41:03 <ArtB> AB: want to get a plan for using the time with the TAG wisely
11:41:23 <ArtB> ... seems like we need to start with a high level discussion of our UC and our Reqs
11:41:32 <ArtB> ... and then talk about different ways to address those reqs
11:42:13 <ArtB> AB: do we have a clear UC and Reqs?
11:42:52 <ArtB> MC: I think the reqs doc provides sufficient information
11:42:52 <marcos> http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-reqs/#r6.-addressing
11:43:44 <tlr> cid:
11:43:45 <tlr> http:
11:43:47 <tlr> file:
11:43:49 <ArtB> MC: I can present the various solutions
11:43:56 <ArtB> ... and explain why they don't work for us
11:45:05 <ArtB> AB: OK, that's the plan then
11:45:15 <ArtB> Topic: Widget Testing
11:45:53 <ArtB> AB: we have at least Carmelo and others from MWTS WG to join us
11:46:07 <ArtB> MC: do we need to create some reqs?
11:46:17 <ArtB> AB: what do people think?
11:46:33 <ArtB> ... I don't think that is a high priority
11:46:53 <ArtB> ... but that may be one of Carmelo's first questions to us
11:47:07 <ArtB> MC: thinking about things like automated harness, etc.
11:47:17 <ArtB> ... what methodology do we want to use?
11:47:25 <ArtB> ... CSS has a model we could use
11:47:47 <ArtB> ... Naming conventions, ...
11:47:57 <ArtB> ... I think we need some guidance 
11:48:53 <marcos> MC: will it be a web based thing? or just a bunch of files that can be downloaded? 
11:49:36 <ArtB> Topic: Requirement doc - Req #21 - New req "Feature Access Declarations"
11:50:12 <ArtB> AB: Marcos proposed this new req: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0053.html
11:50:18 <marcos> http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-reqs/#r21.-
11:50:43 <tlr> q+ to ask that Marcos present this at the December workshop
11:51:01 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
11:51:01 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
11:51:07 <ArtB> MC: the basic idea is to rationalize the <feature> element we've added to the P&C spec
11:51:15 <tlr> zakim, mute me
11:51:15 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
11:51:29 <mpriestl> q=
11:51:32 <ArtB> TR: please present this in the December secuity WS
11:51:37 <mpriestl> q+
11:51:49 <ArtB> AB: are you planning a PP for that WS Marcos?
11:51:50 <tlr> marcos++
11:51:52 <tlr> marcos++
11:51:54 <tlr> ;-)
11:51:58 <ArtB> MC: yes
11:53:17 <ArtB> MP: last call there was discussion about access element and feature element
11:53:41 <ArtB> ... we have had discussion about that in BONDI and VF and can share that during the upcoming f2f meeting
11:54:13 <ArtB> AB: send comments to the mail list; Marcos has already added this to the ED
11:54:34 <ArtB> Topic: Requirements LC #2
11:54:48 <ArtB> AB: deadline for comments is October 13
11:55:02 <ArtB> ... what is the rate of comments?
11:55:12 <ArtB> MC: only Krzy has responded
11:55:22 <ArtB> ... we could ping David Orchard
11:55:28 <ArtB> ... TR said it looks OK
11:56:08 <ArtB> ACTION: Barstow ask David Orchard (again) to review Requirement LC #2
11:56:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-256 - Ask David Orchard (again) to review Requirement LC #2 [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-10-16].
11:56:40 <ArtB> AB: what changes have you made?
11:56:49 <ArtB> MC: not too many
11:56:56 <ArtB> ... the only new req is #21
11:57:19 <ArtB> Topic: AOB
11:57:31 <tlr> ack tlr
11:57:36 <tlr> ack thomas
11:57:37 <Zakim> Thomas, you wanted to ask that Marcos present this at the December workshop
11:57:44 <ArtB> AB: any : any topics?
11:58:06 <ArtB> TR: please  drum up support from the WS
11:58:08 <tlr> zakim, mute me
11:58:08 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
11:58:19 <ArtB> ... not just from you and your company but otherss outside of W3C are welcome
11:58:37 <tlr> ack thomas
11:58:46 <ArtB> AB: what is the deadlien for PP?
11:58:49 <ArtB> TR: October 30
11:58:59 <tlr> zakim, mute me
11:58:59 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
11:59:05 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
11:59:05 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
11:59:36 <ArtB> TR: the level of interest has been rising
11:59:48 <ArtB> ... now have MS and Google on the Program Committee
11:59:57 <tlr> zakim, mute me
11:59:57 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
12:00:30 <ArtB> AB: meeting adjourned
12:00:33 <Zakim> -Caroline
12:00:34 <Zakim> -Mark
12:00:35 <Zakim> -arve
12:00:36 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
12:00:37 <Zakim> -Thomas
12:00:37 <Zakim> - +39.011.228.aaaa
12:00:56 <Zakim> -marcos
12:00:57 <Zakim> IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM has ended
12:00:58 <Zakim> Attendees were Caroline, Art_Barstow, Thomas, marcos, +39.011.228.aaaa, +44.771.751.aabb, Mark, arve
12:01:02 <ArtB> RRSAgent: make log public
12:01:22 <ArtB> rrsagent: make minutes
12:01:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-minutes.html ArtB
12:11:08 <arve> arve has left #wam
13:40:33 <ArtB> s/Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference/Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference/
13:40:43 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
13:40:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-minutes.html ArtB
14:04:02 <ArtB> rrsagent, bye
14:04:02 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-actions.rdf :
14:04:02 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Barstow talk to Mike about helping Arve getting the API and Events spec "pub ready" [1]
14:04:02 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-irc#T11-09-16
14:04:02 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Barstow submit FPWD request for API and Events spec [2]
14:04:02 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-irc#T11-10-45
14:04:02 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Barstow ask David Orchard (again) to review Requirement LC #2 [3]
14:04:02 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-irc#T11-56-08