10:31:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
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10:31:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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10:31:05 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
10:31:05 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM already started
10:31:06 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
10:31:06 <trackbot> Date: 09 October 2008
10:31:11 <ed> zakim, who's here?
10:31:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller]
10:31:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, lmartine, ed, ed_, shepazu, anthony, trackbot
10:31:20 <ed> Zakim, [IP is me
10:31:20 <Zakim> +ed; got it
10:31:21 <Zakim> +lee
10:32:23 <Zakim> +??P2
10:32:39 <anthony> Zakim, ??P2 is me
10:32:39 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
10:36:08 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/
10:41:18 <ed> Zakim, call shepazu
10:41:18 <Zakim> ok, ed; the call is being made
10:41:20 <Zakim> +Shepazu
10:42:32 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0028.html
10:42:37 <ed> scribe: erik
10:42:41 <ed> scribeNick: ed
10:42:51 <ed> Topic: Tests that depend on NOT_SUPPORTED_ERR exceptions from TraitAccess
10:43:54 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0016.html
10:44:25 <ed> ED: future specs may allow it
10:44:41 <anthony> scribe: anthony
10:44:50 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2094
10:45:14 <anthony> ED: This issue is related for trait access on animation elements
10:45:20 <anthony> ... is this something we should allow?
10:45:46 <anthony> ... would it give any effect if you didn't throw an exception?
10:45:49 <anthony> LM: Not sure
10:46:33 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Oct/0028.html
10:46:45 <anthony> ED: [Explains Opera behavior]
10:46:49 <anthony> ... the above link is somewhat related
10:46:57 <anthony> ... not sure on the best way to solve this
10:47:23 <anthony> AG: What's he recommending?
10:47:35 <anthony> ED: He suggests that set trait should not throw
10:47:56 <anthony> ... but no indication as to what to change the behavior to
10:48:10 <anthony> ... would be good to have a clear resolution that addresses this comment
10:49:07 <anthony> LM: How many sub-cases involved?
10:49:16 <anthony> ED: 3 or 4 tests
10:49:29 <anthony> ... I think 1 or 2 of those are just because of this requirement
10:49:50 <anthony> ... what I could do is go through and review those tests
10:51:15 <anthony> ... I'd like to remove the tests that rely on the exceptions
10:51:21 <anthony> ... and wait for feedback
10:51:30 <anthony> ... if there is no feedback we can wait for the next version
10:51:33 <anthony> LM: Fine with me
10:52:45 <anthony> ACTION: Erik to Remove the sub tests from the trait tests that relies on not supported error to be thrown
10:52:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2282 - Remove the sub tests from the trait tests that relies on not supported error to be thrown [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-16].
10:53:50 <anthony> Topic: Implementation report
10:54:19 <anthony> ED: We have a report in CVS
10:58:51 <ed> bitflash now passes styling_inherit_03, linking-frag-203 
10:59:01 <ed> opera now passes udom-glob-203 and 204
10:59:31 <ed> and by changing udom-glob-202 to use new Location syntax three implementations pass (firefox, opera, safari)
10:59:55 <anthony> ED: When do we expect to make the final report?
11:00:00 <anthony> DS: We are doing that at TPAC
11:00:33 <anthony> ED: We have a few tests at risk but much less than before
11:01:16 <anthony> ... did we want to postpone verification at TPAC?
11:02:46 <anthony> ... it would probably be a good idea to keep this updated
11:03:31 <anthony> ACTION: Doug to convert the Xls spread sheet into HTML
11:03:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2283 - Convert the Xls spread sheet into HTML [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-10-16].
11:04:43 <anthony> DS: We can update the chart then verify at TPAC
11:05:03 <anthony> Topic: Last Call Comments
11:05:10 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/11
11:05:45 <anthony> ISSUE-2064?
11:05:45 <trackbot> ISSUE-2064 -- type or typeof? -- OPEN
11:05:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2064
11:06:10 <anthony> ED: I completed an action to make type animatable for image, audio and video
11:06:14 <anthony> ... that's committed and done
11:06:21 <anthony> ... not sure if that address all of his comment
11:06:36 <anthony> DS: Didn't I have an action to respond once that was done?
11:06:50 <anthony> ED: Ok, can move on then
11:06:58 <anthony> ISSUE-2066?
11:06:58 <trackbot> ISSUE-2066 -- datatype (5.10.1) -- RAISED
11:06:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2066
11:09:00 <anthony> DS: I think I did resolve this
11:09:10 <anthony> ISSUE-2068?
11:09:10 <trackbot> ISSUE-2068 -- focusHighlight must be inheritable -- RAISED
11:09:10 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2068
11:09:18 <anthony> DS: I have an action about this
11:09:25 <anthony> ... and we decided not to change it
11:09:29 <anthony> ISSUE-2073?
11:09:32 <trackbot> ISSUE-2073 -- inverse and constrained transformations -- RAISED
11:09:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2073
11:10:58 <anthony> ED: He's asking what happens with animation if you get a non-invertable matrix
11:11:23 <anthony> ... I guess it is possible animating between values
11:13:23 <anthony> AG: Not sure
11:13:40 <anthony> ED: Would somehow have to get a rounding value that works
11:13:50 <anthony> DS: Does have a suggestion about what we should do
11:14:03 <anthony> ED: From what I read he's suggesting to test it first
11:14:41 <anthony> AG: Wouldn't that slow you down for a large animation
11:15:19 <anthony> ED: Might be a good idea to ask for examples or tests
11:16:16 <anthony> ... if you have a non-scaling stroke you might see this
11:16:22 <anthony> ... I think he's right about that
11:17:35 <anthony> AG: We could put a warning in
11:17:49 <anthony> ED: He has suggested to put a warning in for authors
11:18:03 <anthony> DS: I'd suggest we put a warning in
11:18:55 <anthony> ACTION: Anthony to Put a warning in the spec regarding non-invertable matrices when animating transforms. Email back Dr Hoffmann
11:18:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2284 - Put a warning in the spec regarding non-invertable matrices when animating transforms. Email back Dr Hoffmann [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-10-16].
11:19:22 <anthony> ISSUE-2062?
11:19:22 <trackbot> ISSUE-2062 -- foreignObject content and referenced resource -- RAISED
11:19:22 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2062
11:19:46 <anthony> ED: His second and third points are left to discuss
11:21:04 <anthony> ... I agree fully with the 2nd point there
11:21:14 <anthony> ... the spec has no description on this
11:21:46 <anthony> ... I think that if you have xlink:href then you render that
11:22:12 <anthony> ... then if you don't render child content
11:22:23 <anthony> ... I think Chris has an action to address the first point and part of the 2nd
11:22:45 <anthony> DS: It's completely unspecified what happens
11:22:56 <anthony> ... we're essentially adding functionality here
11:23:01 <anthony> ... seems unreasonable to me
11:23:09 <anthony> ED: It's not really testable though
11:23:17 <anthony> ... can't really rely on it being handled
11:23:32 <anthony> ... I'd probably prefer it to be defined rather than undefined
11:23:47 <anthony> DS: I'm not sure it was a good idea to add the xlink:href attribute
11:24:09 <anthony> AG: Not sure if we can remove it
11:25:11 <anthony> ACTION: Erik to Clarify the second point of Issue-2062
11:25:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2285 - Clarify the second point of Issue-2062 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-16].
11:25:56 <anthony> ED: The third part is about how it doesn't create it's own viewPort
11:26:04 <anthony> ... I'm not sure really what to do there
11:26:18 <anthony> ... was this something we decided a long time ago?
11:26:24 <anthony> DS: No idea
11:26:30 <anthony> ... but it seems to me it should
11:26:33 <anthony> ED: I agree
11:26:56 <anthony> AG: Is that a new feature then?
11:27:19 <anthony> DS: We could say it's not for Tiny because we don't let things establish new viewPorts in Tiny
11:28:00 <anthony> ED: Chris had an action about restricting foreignObject
11:28:44 <anthony> ... I'd prefer to align with 1.1
11:29:13 <anthony> DS: Are you saying it should establish it's own viewPort in Tiny?
11:29:18 <anthony> ED: I think it should
11:29:36 <anthony> ... but how it is used by the foreign content is up to the foreign content
11:29:56 <anthony> ... it'd be kind of strange if foreignObject could be drawn anywhere without any defined area
11:30:19 <anthony> DS: Yes it would be strange - but do we have anything else that defines its own viewPort in Tiny?
11:30:23 <anthony> ED: We have animation
11:30:32 <anthony> DS: Are we going to need to make tests for this?
11:30:51 <anthony> ED: Quite difficult because it's foreign content
11:31:04 <anthony> DS: My concern is passing implementations for this
11:31:14 <anthony> LM: We do do foreignObject handling
11:31:29 <anthony> ... not sure what our status is about viewPort though
11:31:37 <anthony> ... we do handle it to some degree
11:31:48 <anthony> ED: So Opera does handling
11:31:58 <anthony> ... there is handling in FF
11:32:04 <anthony> ... but not with the xlink:href
11:32:23 <anthony> LM: I think we'd have to create a test to find out what everyones status is
11:33:31 <anthony> ISSUE-2074?
11:33:31 <trackbot> ISSUE-2074 -- WAI-ARIA use of @role as discussed under 'extensible metadata attributes' -- RAISED
11:33:31 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2074
11:34:16 <anthony> DS: I've replied to Al
11:34:43 <anthony> ... I've changed the spec to use the modified version of his wording
11:34:55 <anthony> ... hopefully we'll get a reply back
11:35:01 <anthony> ISSUE-2076?
11:35:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-2076 -- should @role in SVG be animatable? -- RAISED
11:35:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2076
11:35:10 <anthony> DS: I've replied to Al
11:35:27 <anthony> ... I explained why I think it should be animatable
11:35:36 <anthony> ... not sure if this is a satisfactory answer to him
11:35:48 <anthony> ISSUE-2077?
11:35:48 <trackbot> ISSUE-2077 -- font-variant not animatable -- RAISED
11:35:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2077
11:36:08 <anthony> ED: This is pretty simple
11:36:40 <anthony> ACTION: Erik to Change font-variant so that it is animatable and send a reply email
11:36:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2286 - Change font-variant so that it is animatable and send a reply email [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-16].
11:38:05 <anthony> ISSUE-2079?
11:38:05 <trackbot> ISSUE-2079 -- Better specify the effects of audio and rendering -- RAISED
11:38:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2079
11:38:14 <anthony> DS: I have an action I haven't completed on this yet
11:38:55 <anthony> ED: It's pending review
11:39:03 <anthony> ... is it completed?
11:39:11 <anthony> DS: No will be finished today
11:39:54 <anthony> ISSUE-2080?
11:39:54 <trackbot> ISSUE-2080 -- Clarify focusable=auto -- RAISED
11:39:54 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2080
11:40:14 <anthony> ED: This comment was raised in the Test Fest
11:40:21 <anthony> ... I did make changes to clarify the behavior
11:41:12 <anthony> ... I think Niklas raised the issue
11:41:22 <anthony> ... I can mail the list and check if my change is ok
11:41:33 <anthony> ISSUE-2081?
11:41:33 <trackbot> ISSUE-2081 -- target element for an animation -- RAISED
11:41:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2081
11:42:16 <anthony> DS: He does make a suggestion about what to do
11:42:58 <anthony> ... we should hold off until tomorrow and everyone should read his issues before then
11:43:47 <anthony> ISSUE-2087?
11:43:47 <trackbot> ISSUE-2087 -- Replace gotoLocation with a subset of Window.location -- RAISED
11:43:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2087
11:44:03 <anthony> ED: I raised
11:44:14 <anthony> ... I have committed the proposed changes to the spec
11:44:25 <anthony> ... and got feedback from Cameron and made fixes
11:44:49 <anthony> ... All I need is feedback to say this is ok and to commit test chagnes
11:45:28 <ed> ACTION: ed to change udom-glob-202 to use Location.assign instead of gotoLocation
11:45:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2287 - Change udom-glob-202 to use Location.assign instead of gotoLocation [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-16].
11:45:30 <anthony> ... If there are no objections now, I will close the issue and change the tests
11:46:14 <anthony> ISSUE-2090?
11:46:14 <trackbot> ISSUE-2090 -- @aria-foo atributes: un-prefixed, forbidden? -- RAISED
11:46:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2090
11:46:25 <anthony> DS: I responded to Al
11:46:35 <anthony> ... haven't heard back
11:47:43 <anthony> ISSUE-2081?
11:47:44 <trackbot> ISSUE-2081 -- target element for an animation -- RAISED
11:47:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2081
11:47:53 <shepazu> s/haven't heard/waiting to hear/
11:48:26 <anthony> ED: He has a suggestion
11:48:37 <anthony> ... I'd be fine with the first suggestion
11:49:05 <Zakim> -Shepazu
11:49:37 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
11:49:44 <anthony> ... I'd be ok with the second one as well
11:51:08 <anthony> ... He raises a last question what would the applicable target element would be
11:51:21 <anthony> ... Doing the changes would be pretty simple
11:52:02 <anthony> ACTION: Anthony to Make changes as per the suggestions by Dr Hoffmann regarding ISSUE-2081 and send a reply email
11:52:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2288 - Make changes as per the suggestions by Dr Hoffmann regarding ISSUE-2081 and send a reply email [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-10-16].
11:53:08 <anthony> ISSUE-2082?
11:55:36 <Zakim> -lee
11:55:37 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
11:55:38 <Zakim> -ed
11:55:39 <Zakim> -anthony
11:55:40 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has ended
11:55:41 <Zakim> Attendees were [IPcaller], ed, lee, anthony, Shepazu, Doug_Schepers
11:56:05 <anthony> Zakim, bye
11:56:05 <Zakim> Zakim has left #svg
11:56:13 <anthony> RSSAgent, make minutes
11:56:28 <anthony> RRSAgent, make minutes
11:56:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html anthony
13:59:43 <ed_> trackbot, close ACTION-2287
13:59:43 <trackbot> ACTION-2287 Change udom-glob-202 to use Location.assign instead of gotoLocation closed