10:29:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
10:29:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-irc
10:29:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
10:29:16 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
10:29:18 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
10:29:18 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
10:29:19 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
10:29:19 <trackbot> Date: 07 October 2008
10:29:52 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has now started
10:29:58 <Zakim> +??P3
10:30:05 <ed> Zakim, ? is me
10:30:05 <Zakim> +ed; got it
10:30:56 <Zakim> + +1.613.445.aaaa
10:31:43 <ed> Zakim, +1 is lee
10:31:43 <Zakim> +lee; got it
10:33:15 <lmartine> lmartine has joined #svg
10:35:57 <lmartine> lmartine has joined #svg
10:36:52 <lmartine> lmartine has joined #svg
10:39:42 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #svg
10:40:23 <Zakim> +??P7
10:40:35 <ChrisL> zakim, ??P7 is me
10:40:35 <Zakim> +ChrisL; got it
10:40:55 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
10:40:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see ed, lee, ChrisL
10:40:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisL, lmartine, Zakim, RRSAgent, ed, shepazu, anthony, ed_work, trackbot
10:41:51 <ChrisL> zakim, call doug
10:41:52 <Zakim> I am sorry, ChrisL; I do not know a number for doug
10:41:57 <ChrisL> zakim, call schepers
10:41:57 <Zakim> I am sorry, ChrisL; I do not know a number for schepers
10:42:04 <ChrisL> zakim, call schepers-work
10:42:04 <Zakim> I am sorry, ChrisL; I do not know a number for schepers-work
10:42:11 <ChrisL> zakim, call doug-work
10:42:11 <Zakim> ok, ChrisL; the call is being made
10:42:12 <Zakim> +Doug
10:43:06 <ChrisL> Scribe: Chris
10:43:09 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/11
10:43:15 <ChrisL> Scribenick: ChrisL
10:43:20 <ChrisL> Chair: Erik
10:43:33 <ChrisL> Topic: Last Call Comments
10:45:00 <ChrisL> ED: Some of these may be covered by other actions
10:45:09 <ChrisL> ISSEU-2056?
10:45:15 <ChrisL> ISSUE-2056?
10:45:15 <trackbot> ISSUE-2056 -- Consider referring to Instead of linking to CSS2.1 instead of CSS2 -- RAISED
10:45:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2056
10:45:45 <ChrisL> ACTION: Chris respond to commentor on ISSUE-2056 explaining projected Rec date of CSS 2.1
10:45:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2273 - Respond to commentor on ISSUE-2056 explaining projected Rec date of CSS 2.1 [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-14].
10:46:00 <ChrisL> Close ISSUE-2056
10:46:12 <ChrisL> Trackbot, Close ISSUE-2056
10:46:12 <trackbot> Sorry, ChrisL, I don't understand 'Trackbot, Close ISSUE-2056'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
10:47:24 <ChrisL> CL: How is the DoC document being made?
10:47:50 <ChrisL> DS: The issues will be imported into the LC tracker, but this tracker is better for actions etc
10:47:57 <ChrisL> Topic: Issue 2055
10:48:03 <ChrisL> Issue-2055?
10:48:03 <trackbot> ISSUE-2055 -- Define 'evt'/'event' relationship more formally -- RAISED
10:48:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2055
10:48:21 <ChrisL> ED: Some discussion from Cameron
10:49:22 <ChrisL> ACTION Erik follow up with Cameron and commentor on ISSUE-2055
10:49:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2274 - Follow up with Cameron and commentor on ISSUE-2055 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-14].
10:50:01 <ChrisL> Topic: Issue 2057
10:50:09 <ChrisL> Issue-2057?
10:50:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-2057 -- text-align incompatible with CSS -- OPEN
10:50:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2057
10:50:27 <ChrisL> ED: There is an action pending review
10:52:16 <ChrisL> CL: If a property has different v alue sets in different specifications (eg in CSS1 and CSS2) then clearly there are unsupported values
10:53:22 <ChrisL> DS: UA can be conforming if it does these values, but content is not conforming vcontent if it has those values. But what the UA did would be unspecified
10:54:12 <ChrisL> CL: aybe we could finesses 'unsupported' to allow for supersets in general
10:55:48 <ChrisL> ... but need to be careful to constrain superset values, not allow anything
10:57:08 <ChrisL> ED: No official reply on list to last message
10:57:44 <ChrisL> DS: So both Chris and I are saying such content would not conform to the specification
10:59:04 <ChrisL> ... spec was changed to say "not supported by the user agent" so puts it on UA not spec.
11:00:10 <ChrisL> CL: So if it is supported then it does not have to be ignored
11:00:52 <ChrisL> CL: I didn't suggest exact wording, but to ask first if that would satisfy
11:01:20 <ChrisL> ACTION: Chris discuss ISSUE-2057 with Fantasai
11:01:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2275 - Discuss ISSUE-2057 with Fantasai [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-14].
11:02:30 <ChrisL> DS; Second part is solved by reintroduction of direction etc
11:02:43 <ChrisL> DS: Third part was clarified by 'not in Tiny'
11:04:30 <ChrisL> CL: So no response to dougs eail of 18 Sept?
11:04:57 <ChrisL> DS: She contacted me on IRC. Asked that she follow up in email, for tracking. Not done so yet
11:05:13 <ChrisL> ... on IRC she was not satisfied
11:05:31 <ChrisL> .. on the first issue. Others were not mentioned
11:05:41 <ChrisL> CL; What did she say exactly?
11:05:48 <ChrisL> DS: Will look in IRC logs
11:06:21 <ChrisL> Topic; ISSUE-2058
11:06:28 <ChrisL> ISSUE-2058?
11:06:28 <trackbot> ISSUE-2058 -- Lack of BIDI 'direction' -- RAISED
11:06:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2058
11:07:05 <ChrisL> ED; Fantasai says direction needs unicode-bidi as well, which we added
11:10:12 <ChrisL> ACTION: Chris to respond to Fantasia on ISSUE-2058 saying we added direction, unicode-bidi and a test
11:10:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2276 - Respond to Fantasia on ISSUE-2058 saying we added direction, unicode-bidi and a test [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-14].
11:11:08 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/text-align-202-t.svg
11:11:13 <ChrisL> ED; Shoudl the other alignment test have unicode-bidi?
11:11:23 <ChrisL> CL: Its not ipening an embedding context
11:12:52 <ChrisL> CL; Should not have been added in that case, since its a block level and does not set a new embedding level
11:12:58 <ChrisL> ... why does opera fail here?
11:13:25 <ChrisL> ED; Because we are not treating start as right, here. In 1.1 the text was wrong
11:13:33 <ChrisL> CL: We fixed that in an erratum
11:13:46 <ChrisL> ED: Not updated to impleent that erratum yet
11:14:33 <ChrisL> CL; Should actually remove direction from text-align-202
11:17:25 <ChrisL> ED: Check there is no leading witespace, then remove it
11:18:16 <ChrisL> ACTION: Chris to remove direction from text-align-202 as it uses the initial value and does nothing n this test
11:18:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2277 - Remove direction from text-align-202 as it uses the initial value and does nothing n this test [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-14].
11:18:41 <ChrisL> Topic: Issue-2061
11:18:47 <ChrisL> Issue-2061?
11:18:47 <trackbot> ISSUE-2061 -- play, stop, pause, resume on video -- OPEN
11:18:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2061
11:20:02 <ChrisL> CL: So he is asking for editorial clarifications and more linkingbetween the two interfaces
11:20:35 <ChrisL> DS: Wants it to be clearer. no functional changes. Example would be good. Explain how to start, stop, pause, resue. Simple
11:20:40 <ChrisL> ED: Informative note
11:22:57 <ChrisL> DS: So we should say yes, we will link these two interfaces and explain them 2 outcomes: one we merge the interfaces, the other that we cross reference between them.
11:24:52 <ChrisL> CL; Good to have pointed out that SVG does what SMIL does, while HTML5 does the same thing in a different way
11:25:42 <ChrisL> DS: HTML% interface for this all in one place. It does some things we dont. We do some things they dont/ SMIL interface structure is confusing. PLH was confused and he is an experienced DOM author
11:26:36 <ChrisL> ED: In SVG 1.1 you can pause and unpause on SVG root element and its named differently. PauseAnimations vs PauseElement
11:26:44 <ChrisL> DS; Its a timeline
11:27:05 <ChrisL> ... need to add the explanation to the spec
11:29:29 <ChrisL> CL; Explanation needs to use the term TimeContainer
11:30:11 <ChrisL> CL: Would existing code change if it moved interfaces?
11:30:16 <ChrisL> DS: probably
11:30:56 <ChrisL> ED: EleentTimeControl is available on the SVG root element as well
11:31:09 <ChrisL> s/Eleen/Elem/
11:31:59 <ChrisL> DS; The interfaces can't be unified because what would play do on the svg root element. 'play' does not have meaning there
11:32:34 <ChrisL> CL: Would play mean 'restart'? 
11:32:56 <ChrisL> DS; Not really
11:34:00 <ChrisL> ED: beginElement is already there as well as pause
11:34:20 <ChrisL> DS; So if we do the basic fix of linking between the interfaces
11:34:33 <ChrisL> ... then revisit in the larger picture
11:35:25 <ChrisL> CL; Sugest an excampl and rtext saying 'to pause a video do this ... to start a video when a button is pressed do like this example"
11:37:43 <ChrisL> ACTION: Doug to clarify the spec - link SVGTimedElement and SMIL::ElenentTimeControl and checkthat PLH is satisfied
11:37:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2278 - Clarify the spec - link SVGTimedElement and SMIL::ElenentTimeControl and checkthat PLH is satisfied [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-10-14].
11:37:56 <ChrisL> s/Elen/Elem/
11:39:01 <ChrisL> Topic: ISSUE-2062
11:39:08 <ChrisL> ISSUE-2062?
11:39:08 <trackbot> ISSUE-2062 -- foreignObject content and referenced resource -- RAISED
11:39:08 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2062
11:39:59 <ChrisL> ED: xlink:href reference restrictions are not listed
11:41:38 <ChrisL> CL: So any reference restrictions should be mentioned. Simplest to restrict to a different doc, not the same one. 
11:42:30 <ChrisL> CL: Fragments or not?
11:42:42 <ChrisL> ED: Like linking to an ID?
11:43:02 <ChrisL> DS; Maybe covered in CDF
11:45:11 <ChrisL> CL: Useful to display the whole document and allow moving to a given point, so we dont want to dissalow fragments
11:45:19 <ChrisL> ED: Agreed, allow fragments
11:45:37 <ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/linking.html#ReferenceRestrictions
11:47:39 <ChrisL> CL: Looking at http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/linking.html#ReferenceRestrictions
11:47:50 <ChrisL> it has five things labelled A... E
11:48:09 <ChrisL> A is not allowed. B is allowed. C we justsaid was not allowed
11:48:47 <ChrisL> ... C is covered by th e animation element
11:49:13 <ChrisL> D is allowed
11:49:25 <ChrisL> E is allowed too
11:51:04 <ChrisL> foreignObject is in that table and says yes everywhere
11:51:43 <ChrisL> ACTION: Chris to update table of ref restrictions in linking.thml to make foreignObject do what these minutes say
11:51:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2279 - Update table of ref restrictions in linking.thml to make foreignObject do what these minutes say [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-14].
11:51:50 <shepazu> shepazu has joined #svg
11:52:41 <ChrisL> he says we don't mention displaying the contents
11:53:16 <ChrisL> We say "The rendered content of a foreignObject must be treated as atomic from the point of view of SVG compositing and transformation, as if it was a single replaced element."
11:53:35 <ChrisL> we dont say it should be rendered but we say what to do with the rendered result
11:54:42 <ChrisL> Suggest "If the foreign format is supported by the UA and can be rendered, then it shoudl be rendered into the viewport defined by the element" before the sentence just quoted
11:56:07 <ChrisL> CL; Suggest moving the last three paras of 19.2 into 19.2.1
11:56:19 <ChrisL> ED: Yes
11:56:47 <ChrisL> ACTION: Chris to move the last three paras of 19.2 into 19.2.1 (the ones that discuss foreignObject)
11:56:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2280 - Move the last three paras of 19.2 into 19.2.1 (the ones that discuss foreignObject) [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-14].
11:57:21 <ChrisL> ED: Need to continue on this issue next time
11:57:41 <ChrisL> DS; ooks like we need an extra or longe rtelcon
11:59:05 <ChrisL> ... we need resolutions and agreement quickly
12:05:03 <ChrisL> (brief discussion of ISSUE-2076)
12:05:44 <ChrisL> DS: Extra-long telcon toorrow? 
12:05:46 <ChrisL> ED: Or shared time on IRC
12:06:01 <ChrisL> DS: More time, and also email discussion
12:07:42 <ChrisL> DS: Extra telcons better next week
12:09:29 <ChrisL> DS will send email to the list asking about extra telcons
12:18:11 <ChrisL> ACTION: Doug to explain that aria- or aria: would be in later specs with real examples, based on tpac discussions
12:18:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2281 - Explain that aria- or aria: would be in later specs with real examples, based on tpac discussions [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-10-14].
12:21:02 <Zakim> -ed
12:21:04 <Zakim> -ChrisL
12:21:06 <Zakim> -lee
12:21:09 <ChrisL> zakim, list attendees
12:21:09 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ed, +1.613.445.aaaa, lee, ChrisL, Doug
12:21:12 <Zakim> -Doug
12:21:13 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has ended
12:21:14 <Zakim> Attendees were ed, +1.613.445.aaaa, lee, ChrisL, Doug
12:21:26 <ChrisL> Regrets: Cameron, Andrew Emmons, Anthony
12:21:34 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make longs public
12:21:34 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make longs public', ChrisL.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
12:21:50 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
12:21:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html ChrisL
13:17:09 <shepazu> shepazu has joined #svg
13:35:34 <ed_work> shepazu: did you add julien reichel's traitaccess comment to the tracker or should I do it?
13:36:01 <shepazu> ed_work: I'm adding a bunch now, his is one of them
13:36:13 <ed_work> ...and did you check your account balance to see if Brookstreet charged you for my room?
13:37:06 <ed_work> it wasn't on either of my creditcards, but I didn't check it carefully enough that morning
13:39:51 <shepazu> ed_work: I'll look... what can we do about it if they did make the mistake?
13:40:15 <shepazu> should we get them to change the charge, or settle it between us?
13:57:33 <shepazu> ed_work: I added julien's comment
13:57:44 <ed_work> i don't know which is easier, what do you think?
13:58:25 <shepazu> ed_work: I am not seeing the charge from brookstreet, but I'm also not seeing it from the bill I paid either, so they may not have processed it yet
14:02:06 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #svg
14:21:45 <Zakim> Zakim has left #svg
14:59:19 <ddepasqu> ddepasqu has joined #svg
14:59:30 <ed_work> trackbot, close ACTION-2257
14:59:31 <trackbot> ACTION-2257 Make an imagepatch for text-tselect-03-t to show the selection closed
15:22:31 <ed_work> hmm...for ACTION-2213 I wonder one thing...how do I make the attribute appendix show 'type' being animatable in some cases only?
15:28:34 <ed_work> ah, ok...maybe by changing the relaxng
15:29:12 <ed_work> in that case I'd like to split it into two...
15:33:09 <ed_work> ok, let's see how this goes...I might revert this if it fails
15:36:22 <ed> ed has joined #svg
15:40:05 <ed_work> cool, that actually worked :)
15:43:48 <ed_work> trackbot, close ACTION-2213
15:43:48 <trackbot> ACTION-2213 Make the type attribute animatable for types closed
15:44:57 <ed_work> shepazu: ACTION-2213 was related to some LC comment that you said you'd respond to after I completed the action
15:46:33 <ed_work> trackbot, close ACTION-2250
15:46:33 <trackbot> ACTION-2250 Clarify the focusable="auto" with eventListener and handlers closed
16:06:15 <shepazu> ed_work: ok, I'll respond now