IRC log of rdfa on 2008-10-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:57:10 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:57:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:57:15 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rdfa
14:57:19 [Ralph]
zakim, this will be rdfa
14:57:19 [Zakim]
ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:25 [Ralph]
Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML Task Force
14:58:05 [Ralph]
14:58:38 [Ralph]
Regrets: Michael, Shane
14:58:48 [Ralph]
rrsagent, please make record public
14:59:41 [Ralph]
-> previous 2008-09-04
14:59:52 [Ralph]
-> previous 2008-09-04
15:00:20 [Ralph]
-> previous 2008-09-11
15:00:44 [Ralph]
-> previous 2008-09-18
15:00:56 [Zakim]
SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
15:01:06 [Zakim]
15:01:08 [JeremyCarroll]
JeremyCarroll has joined #rdfa
15:02:24 [Zakim]
15:03:00 [Zakim]
15:03:28 [benadida]
benadida has joined #rdfa
15:03:53 [benadida]
zakim, who is on the call?
15:03:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jeremy, Ralph, Ben_Adida
15:06:04 [markbirbeck]
previous call is overrunning. will be a couple of minutes
15:08:08 [Ralph]
-> "xmlse:foo slightly substantive comment on CURIEs (both in stand alone document, and in RDFa PR)" [Jeremy 2008-09-12]
15:09:32 [Ralph]
Chair: Ben
15:09:35 [Ralph]
Scribe: Ralph
15:11:55 [Ralph]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben to close loop with Danny. [recorded in]
15:11:57 [benadida]
15:12:15 [Ralph]
Ben: wrote to Danny, don't have a response
15:12:41 [Ralph]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben to determine how to highlight RDFa at TPAC [recorded in]
15:12:58 [Ralph]
Ralph: 2 opportunities
15:13:37 [Ralph]
-> TP Agenda
15:13:59 [Ralph]
... 2 lightning talk session
15:14:13 [Ralph]
... also a "Semantic Web Demo" session
15:14:26 [markbirbeck]
zakim, code?
15:14:26 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
15:14:56 [Zakim]
15:16:09 [Ralph]
Jeremy, Mark: we'll be at TP
15:16:54 [Ralph]
Ben: showing the Drupal work, or SearchMonkey, or Ubiquity w/RDFa would be good
15:17:00 [Ralph]
... we have more showy stuff than last year
15:17:17 [Ralph]
Ralph: let Ivan know if you have a brief demo you could offer
15:19:17 [Ralph]
Jeremy: I might offer a demo
15:23:04 [Ralph]
15:23:22 [Ralph]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben to log Danny's issue to tracker. [recorded in]
15:23:35 [Ralph]
-> issue 128
15:23:50 [Ralph]
s/ 128/ 128; PR Comment: Default Graph
15:23:58 [Ralph]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in]
15:25:02 [Ralph]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in]
15:25:25 [Ralph]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben to figure out *how* to do the namespace-doc GRDDL thing [recorded in]
15:25:35 [Ralph]
Ben: Ralph went ahead and did it
15:26:14 [Ralph]
[DROPPED] ACTION: Jeremy review and consider expanding the description of TopBraid in the RDFa wiki [recorded in]
15:26:30 [Ralph]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in]
15:28:35 [Ralph]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [recorded in]
15:28:47 [Ralph]
[DONE] ACTION: Manu to upload test harness source code to W3C CVS. [recorded in]
15:28:52 [Ralph]
-> @@ Manu's mail
15:29:02 [Ralph]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in]
15:29:13 [Ralph]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded in]
15:29:28 [Ralph]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in]
15:29:44 [Ralph]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in]
15:30:00 [Ralph]
[DONE] ACTION: Ralph to make happen [recorded in]
15:30:08 [Ralph]
[DONE] ACTION: Shane to update XHTML ns document to point to new XSLT URI [recorded in]
15:30:29 [Ralph]
i/Scribe: Ralph/Topic: Action Review
15:31:51 [Ralph]
Topic: Publishing Moratorium
15:32:01 [Ralph]
Ralph: last day to request publication is 13 October
15:32:10 [Ralph]
... last pubs will be 16 Oct
15:32:13 [Ralph]
... before TPAC
15:33:12 [Ralph]
s/Publishing Moratorium/Primer
15:33:26 [Ralph]
Ben: we've had a couple of negative comments about the Primer
15:33:34 [Ralph]
... I wish folk would send us pointers to their blogs
15:33:50 [Ralph]
... do we _need_ to beef it up?
15:34:03 [Ralph]
Mark: I haven't looked at it in a while but I do remember having some thoughts
15:34:29 [benadida]
15:35:18 [Ralph]
-> "RDFa Trials and Travails ..." [Michael 2008-09-25]
15:35:33 [Ralph]
Ben: do we _want_ to be telling people how to define vocabularies in this document?
15:35:50 [Ralph]
Mark: we'd talked before about the purpose of the Primer
15:36:15 [Ralph]
... probably don't want to get into explaining custom vocabularies
15:36:26 [Ralph]
... but if we don't then perhaps we shouldn't mention them at all
15:36:52 [Ralph]
... we have a powerful system in RDFa but what really makes it useful to Joe Public is when we drop namespace prefixes and make it look more like microformats
15:37:18 [Ralph]
[I disagree on Mark's last point but won't go into it in this telecon]
15:37:43 [Ralph]
Mark: maybe we just accept that our audience is folk who are somewhat familiar with Semantic Web concepts
15:38:42 [Ralph]
Ben: I propose that to submit editorial changes only to the Working Group next week and publish just small changes on 13 October
15:38:50 [Ralph]
s/that to/to
15:39:08 [Ralph]
... just enough modification to the Primer to address the comments a little bit
15:41:29 [Ralph]
Ralph: are there enough updates to be worth pushing for 13 Oct or should the Primer just wait a bit longer?
15:41:34 [Ralph]
Jeremy: delay REC?
15:41:40 [Ralph]
Ralph: no, let's not delay REC
15:42:04 [Ralph]
Ben: there's other introductory material as well, e.g. in the Wiki
15:43:20 [Ralph]
Mark: but I do see the argument in favor of removing the section on custom vocabularies
15:44:35 [Ralph]
Ralph: there _are_ related documents out there; e.g. the Best Practice Recipes
15:45:30 [Ralph]
Mark: but where are the limits on what we do?
15:47:34 [Ralph]
Ralph: one of the things that distinguishes RDFa from microformats is that you _can_ define your own vocabulary when you decide that there's nothing existing that meets your needs
15:47:49 [Ralph]
... so I wouldn't want to drop this entirely from the Primer
15:48:10 [Ralph]
... it's not clear whether that commentor tried to follow the URIs
15:48:35 [Ralph]
... the early Web was built on cloning pages; the same works for these examples
15:50:44 [Ralph]
ACTION: Ben ask Shane to produce an updated Syntax with editorial changes for the WG to review next week
15:51:08 [Ralph]
-> Jeremy's editorial suggestion
15:52:27 [benadida]
Note: A CURIE prefix value may case-insensitively begin in the string "xml", but then it is not permitted to be used as a prefix in an xmlns declaration in an XML document.
15:52:37 [Ralph]
Jeremy: we should align the RDFa Syntax document and the CURIE spec as to whether a prefix can start with 'xml'
15:53:57 [JeremyCarroll]
See the text:
15:53:57 [JeremyCarroll]
15:53:57 [JeremyCarroll]
prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the 'xmlns:' syntax specified in [XMLNAMES].
15:53:57 [JeremyCarroll]
15:55:13 [markbirbeck]
"When CURIES are used in an XML-based host language, prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the 'xmlns:' syntax specified in [XMLNAMES]. Such host languages MAY also provide additional prefix mapping definition mechanisms.
15:55:14 [markbirbeck]
When CURIES are used in a non-XML host language, the host language MUST provide a mechanism for defining the mapping from the prefix to an IRI."
15:55:32 [Ralph]
Ralph: perhaps the 'xml' restriction is a Host Language restriction and not an RDFa or CURIE restriction
15:56:47 [Ralph]
... so RDFa and CURIE should remain silent on this point and leave it to the Host Language specs to declare any further restrictions
15:57:33 [Ralph]
Mark: when I added that sentence I was thinking of prefixes such as '123abc'
15:57:47 [Ralph]
... it wouldn't hurt to add to CURIE the 'xml*' restriction
15:58:06 [Ralph]
... I think this would be a useful addition
15:58:54 [Ralph]
Ralph: I'd make it an editorial Note: comment rather than make it appearing to be normative about CURIEs
16:00:32 [Ralph]
Mark: I agree that the normative constraint is already covered by the "prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the 'xmlns:' syntax specified in [XMLNAMES]" language
16:00:44 [Ralph]
... I'm suggesting adding the comment as assistance to readers
16:00:52 [Ralph]
Jeremy: an example would be informative
16:01:17 [Ralph]
... I'm happy with no change to RDFa Syntax
16:02:04 [benadida]
PROPOSE no modification to the RDFa Syntax document based on Jeremy's xmlse:foo comment
16:02:14 [Ralph]
RESOLVED: no modification to the RDFa Syntax document based on Jeremy's xmlse:foo comment
16:02:40 [JeremyCarroll]
accepted as commentator
16:02:43 [Ralph]
16:02:43 [Zakim]
16:02:44 [Zakim]
16:02:49 [Zakim]
16:02:49 [Zakim]
SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
16:02:50 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jeremy, Ralph, Ben_Adida, markbirbeck
16:02:56 [Ralph]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:02:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Ralph
16:03:38 [Ralph]
zakim, bye
16:03:38 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rdfa
16:03:39 [Ralph]
rrsagent, bye
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in :
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ben ask Shane to produce an updated Syntax with editorial changes for the WG to review next week [1]
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in