IRC log of rdfa on 2008-10-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:57:10 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #rdfa

14:57:10 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-irc

14:57:15 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #rdfa

14:57:19 [Ralph]

zakim, this will be rdfa

14:57:19 [Zakim]

ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

14:57:25 [Ralph]

Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML Task Force

14:58:05 [Ralph]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0008.html

14:58:38 [Ralph]

Regrets: Michael, Shane

14:58:48 [Ralph]

rrsagent, please make record public

14:59:41 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0018.html previous 2008-09-04

14:59:52 [Ralph]

-> http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2008-09-04

15:00:20 [Ralph]

-> http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2008-09-11

15:00:44 [Ralph]

-> http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2008-09-18

15:00:56 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

15:01:06 [Zakim]

+Jeremy

15:01:08 [JeremyCarroll]

JeremyCarroll has joined #rdfa

15:02:24 [Zakim]

+Ralph

15:03:00 [Zakim]

+Ben_Adida

15:03:28 [benadida]

benadida has joined #rdfa

15:03:53 [benadida]

zakim, who is on the call?

15:03:53 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Jeremy, Ralph, Ben_Adida

15:06:04 [markbirbeck]

previous call is overrunning. will be a couple of minutes

15:08:08 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0041 "xmlse:foo slightly substantive comment on CURIEs (both in stand alone document, and in RDFa PR)" [Jeremy 2008-09-12]

15:09:32 [Ralph]

Chair: Ben

15:09:35 [Ralph]

Scribe: Ralph

15:11:55 [Ralph]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben to close loop with Danny. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action19]

15:11:57 [benadida]

--> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0122.html

15:12:15 [Ralph]

Ben: wrote to Danny, don't have a response

15:12:41 [Ralph]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben to determine how to highlight RDFa at TPAC [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action17]

15:12:58 [Ralph]

Ralph: 2 opportunities

15:13:37 [Ralph]

-> http://www.w3.org/2008/10/TPAC/TPDay-Agenda.html TP Agenda

15:13:59 [Ralph]

... 2 lightning talk session

15:14:13 [Ralph]

... also a "Semantic Web Demo" session

15:14:26 [markbirbeck]

zakim, code?

15:14:26 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

15:14:56 [Zakim]

+markbirbeck

15:16:09 [Ralph]

Jeremy, Mark: we'll be at TP

15:16:54 [Ralph]

Ben: showing the Drupal work, or SearchMonkey, or Ubiquity w/RDFa would be good

15:17:00 [Ralph]

... we have more showy stuff than last year

15:17:17 [Ralph]

Ralph: let Ivan know if you have a brief demo you could offer

15:19:17 [Ralph]

Jeremy: I might offer a demo

15:23:04 [Ralph]

s/[CONTINUES/[DONE

15:23:22 [Ralph]

[DONE] ACTION: Ben to log Danny's issue to tracker. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action18]

15:23:35 [Ralph]

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/128 issue 128

15:23:50 [Ralph]

s/ 128/ 128; PR Comment: Default Graph

15:23:58 [Ralph]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

15:25:02 [Ralph]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]

15:25:25 [Ralph]

[DONE] ACTION: Ben to figure out *how* to do the namespace-doc GRDDL thing [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action18]

15:25:35 [Ralph]

Ben: Ralph went ahead and did it

15:26:14 [Ralph]

[DROPPED] ACTION: Jeremy review and consider expanding the description of TopBraid in the RDFa wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]

15:26:30 [Ralph]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

15:28:35 [Ralph]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]

15:28:47 [Ralph]

[DONE] ACTION: Manu to upload test harness source code to W3C CVS. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

15:28:52 [Ralph]

-> @@ Manu's mail

15:29:02 [Ralph]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

15:29:13 [Ralph]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

15:29:28 [Ralph]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]

15:29:44 [Ralph]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]

15:30:00 [Ralph]

[DONE] ACTION: Ralph to make http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt happen [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action16]

15:30:08 [Ralph]

[DONE] ACTION: Shane to update XHTML ns document to point to new XSLT URI [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action17]

15:30:29 [Ralph]

i/Scribe: Ralph/Topic: Action Review

15:31:51 [Ralph]

Topic: Publishing Moratorium

15:32:01 [Ralph]

Ralph: last day to request publication is 13 October

15:32:10 [Ralph]

... last pubs will be 16 Oct

15:32:13 [Ralph]

... before TPAC

15:33:12 [Ralph]

s/Publishing Moratorium/Primer

15:33:26 [Ralph]

Ben: we've had a couple of negative comments about the Primer

15:33:34 [Ralph]

... I wish folk would send us pointers to their blogs

15:33:50 [Ralph]

... do we _need_ to beef it up?

15:34:03 [Ralph]

Mark: I haven't looked at it in a while but I do remember having some thoughts

15:34:29 [benadida]

--> http://playtheweb.org/2008/09/24/rdfa-trials-and-travails/

15:35:18 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0129.html "RDFa Trials and Travails ..." [Michael 2008-09-25]

15:35:33 [Ralph]

Ben: do we _want_ to be telling people how to define vocabularies in this document?

15:35:50 [Ralph]

Mark: we'd talked before about the purpose of the Primer

15:36:15 [Ralph]

... probably don't want to get into explaining custom vocabularies

15:36:26 [Ralph]

... but if we don't then perhaps we shouldn't mention them at all

15:36:52 [Ralph]

... we have a powerful system in RDFa but what really makes it useful to Joe Public is when we drop namespace prefixes and make it look more like microformats

15:37:18 [Ralph]

[I disagree on Mark's last point but won't go into it in this telecon]

15:37:43 [Ralph]

Mark: maybe we just accept that our audience is folk who are somewhat familiar with Semantic Web concepts

15:38:42 [Ralph]

Ben: I propose that to submit editorial changes only to the Working Group next week and publish just small changes on 13 October

15:38:50 [Ralph]

s/that to/to

15:39:08 [Ralph]

... just enough modification to the Primer to address the comments a little bit

15:41:29 [Ralph]

Ralph: are there enough updates to be worth pushing for 13 Oct or should the Primer just wait a bit longer?

15:41:34 [Ralph]

Jeremy: delay REC?

15:41:40 [Ralph]

Ralph: no, let's not delay REC

15:42:04 [Ralph]

Ben: there's other introductory material as well, e.g. in the Wiki

15:43:20 [Ralph]

Mark: but I do see the argument in favor of removing the section on custom vocabularies

15:44:35 [Ralph]

Ralph: there _are_ related documents out there; e.g. the Best Practice Recipes

15:45:30 [Ralph]

Mark: but where are the limits on what we do?

15:47:34 [Ralph]

Ralph: one of the things that distinguishes RDFa from microformats is that you _can_ define your own vocabulary when you decide that there's nothing existing that meets your needs

15:47:49 [Ralph]

... so I wouldn't want to drop this entirely from the Primer

15:48:10 [Ralph]

... it's not clear whether that commentor tried to follow the URIs

15:48:35 [Ralph]

... the early Web was built on cloning pages; the same works for these examples

15:50:44 [Ralph]

ACTION: Ben ask Shane to produce an updated Syntax with editorial changes for the WG to review next week

15:51:08 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0041.html Jeremy's editorial suggestion

15:52:27 [benadida]

Note: A CURIE prefix value may case-insensitively begin in the string "xml", but then it is not permitted to be used as a prefix in an xmlns declaration in an XML document.

15:52:37 [Ralph]

Jeremy: we should align the RDFa Syntax document and the CURIE spec as to whether a prefix can start with 'xml'

15:53:57 [JeremyCarroll]

See the text:

15:53:57 [JeremyCarroll]

[[

15:53:57 [JeremyCarroll]

prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the 'xmlns:' syntax specified in [XMLNAMES].

15:53:57 [JeremyCarroll]

]]

15:55:13 [markbirbeck]

"When CURIES are used in an XML-based host language, prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the 'xmlns:' syntax specified in [XMLNAMES]. Such host languages MAY also provide additional prefix mapping definition mechanisms.

15:55:14 [markbirbeck]

When CURIES are used in a non-XML host language, the host language MUST provide a mechanism for defining the mapping from the prefix to an IRI."

15:55:32 [Ralph]

Ralph: perhaps the 'xml' restriction is a Host Language restriction and not an RDFa or CURIE restriction

15:56:47 [Ralph]

... so RDFa and CURIE should remain silent on this point and leave it to the Host Language specs to declare any further restrictions

15:57:33 [Ralph]

Mark: when I added that sentence I was thinking of prefixes such as '123abc'

15:57:47 [Ralph]

... it wouldn't hurt to add to CURIE the 'xml*' restriction

15:58:06 [Ralph]

... I think this would be a useful addition

15:58:54 [Ralph]

Ralph: I'd make it an editorial Note: comment rather than make it appearing to be normative about CURIEs

16:00:32 [Ralph]

Mark: I agree that the normative constraint is already covered by the "prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the 'xmlns:' syntax specified in [XMLNAMES]" language

16:00:44 [Ralph]

... I'm suggesting adding the comment as assistance to readers

16:00:52 [Ralph]

Jeremy: an example would be informative

16:01:17 [Ralph]

... I'm happy with no change to RDFa Syntax

16:02:04 [benadida]

PROPOSE no modification to the RDFa Syntax document based on Jeremy's xmlse:foo comment

16:02:14 [Ralph]

RESOLVED: no modification to the RDFa Syntax document based on Jeremy's xmlse:foo comment

16:02:40 [JeremyCarroll]

accepted as commentator

16:02:43 [Ralph]

[adjourned]

16:02:43 [Zakim]

-markbirbeck

16:02:44 [Zakim]

-Ben_Adida

16:02:49 [Zakim]

-Ralph

16:02:49 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

16:02:50 [Zakim]

Attendees were Jeremy, Ralph, Ben_Adida, markbirbeck

16:02:56 [Ralph]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

16:02:56 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

16:03:38 [Ralph]

zakim, bye

16:03:38 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #rdfa

16:03:39 [Ralph]

rrsagent, bye

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-actions.rdf :

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben ask Shane to produce an updated Syntax with editorial changes for the WG to review next week [1]

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-irc#T15-50-44