14:57:10 RRSAgent has joined #rdfa 14:57:10 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-irc 14:57:15 Zakim has joined #rdfa 14:57:19 zakim, this will be rdfa 14:57:19 ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes 14:57:25 Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML Task Force 14:58:05 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0008.html 14:58:38 Regrets: Michael, Shane 14:58:48 rrsagent, please make record public 14:59:41 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0018.html previous 2008-09-04 14:59:52 -> http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2008-09-04 15:00:20 -> http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2008-09-11 15:00:44 -> http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2008-09-18 15:00:56 SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started 15:01:06 +Jeremy 15:01:08 JeremyCarroll has joined #rdfa 15:02:24 +Ralph 15:03:00 +Ben_Adida 15:03:28 benadida has joined #rdfa 15:03:53 zakim, who is on the call? 15:03:53 On the phone I see Jeremy, Ralph, Ben_Adida 15:06:04 previous call is overrunning. will be a couple of minutes 15:08:08 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0041 "xmlse:foo slightly substantive comment on CURIEs (both in stand alone document, and in RDFa PR)" [Jeremy 2008-09-12] 15:09:32 Chair: Ben 15:09:35 Scribe: Ralph 15:11:55 [CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben to close loop with Danny. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action19] 15:11:57 --> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0122.html 15:12:15 Ben: wrote to Danny, don't have a response 15:12:41 [CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben to determine how to highlight RDFa at TPAC [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action17] 15:12:58 Ralph: 2 opportunities 15:13:37 -> http://www.w3.org/2008/10/TPAC/TPDay-Agenda.html TP Agenda 15:13:59 ... 2 lightning talk session 15:14:13 ... also a "Semantic Web Demo" session 15:14:26 zakim, code? 15:14:26 the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck 15:14:56 +markbirbeck 15:16:09 Jeremy, Mark: we'll be at TP 15:16:54 Ben: showing the Drupal work, or SearchMonkey, or Ubiquity w/RDFa would be good 15:17:00 ... we have more showy stuff than last year 15:17:17 Ralph: let Ivan know if you have a brief demo you could offer 15:19:17 Jeremy: I might offer a demo 15:23:04 s/[CONTINUES/[DONE 15:23:22 [DONE] ACTION: Ben to log Danny's issue to tracker. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action18] 15:23:35 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/128 issue 128 15:23:50 s/ 128/ 128; PR Comment: Default Graph 15:23:58 [CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12] 15:25:02 [CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13] 15:25:25 [DONE] ACTION: Ben to figure out *how* to do the namespace-doc GRDDL thing [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action18] 15:25:35 Ben: Ralph went ahead and did it 15:26:14 [DROPPED] ACTION: Jeremy review and consider expanding the description of TopBraid in the RDFa wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] 15:26:30 [CONTINUES] ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03] 15:28:35 [CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04] 15:28:47 [DONE] ACTION: Manu to upload test harness source code to W3C CVS. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] 15:28:52 -> @@ Manu's mail 15:29:02 [CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] 15:29:13 [CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11] 15:29:28 [CONTINUES] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14] 15:29:44 [CONTINUES] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15] 15:30:00 [DONE] ACTION: Ralph to make http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt happen [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action16] 15:30:08 [DONE] ACTION: Shane to update XHTML ns document to point to new XSLT URI [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action17] 15:30:29 i/Scribe: Ralph/Topic: Action Review 15:31:51 Topic: Publishing Moratorium 15:32:01 Ralph: last day to request publication is 13 October 15:32:10 ... last pubs will be 16 Oct 15:32:13 ... before TPAC 15:33:12 s/Publishing Moratorium/Primer 15:33:26 Ben: we've had a couple of negative comments about the Primer 15:33:34 ... I wish folk would send us pointers to their blogs 15:33:50 ... do we _need_ to beef it up? 15:34:03 Mark: I haven't looked at it in a while but I do remember having some thoughts 15:34:29 --> http://playtheweb.org/2008/09/24/rdfa-trials-and-travails/ 15:35:18 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0129.html "RDFa Trials and Travails ..." [Michael 2008-09-25] 15:35:33 Ben: do we _want_ to be telling people how to define vocabularies in this document? 15:35:50 Mark: we'd talked before about the purpose of the Primer 15:36:15 ... probably don't want to get into explaining custom vocabularies 15:36:26 ... but if we don't then perhaps we shouldn't mention them at all 15:36:52 ... we have a powerful system in RDFa but what really makes it useful to Joe Public is when we drop namespace prefixes and make it look more like microformats 15:37:18 [I disagree on Mark's last point but won't go into it in this telecon] 15:37:43 Mark: maybe we just accept that our audience is folk who are somewhat familiar with Semantic Web concepts 15:38:42 Ben: I propose that to submit editorial changes only to the Working Group next week and publish just small changes on 13 October 15:38:50 s/that to/to 15:39:08 ... just enough modification to the Primer to address the comments a little bit 15:41:29 Ralph: are there enough updates to be worth pushing for 13 Oct or should the Primer just wait a bit longer? 15:41:34 Jeremy: delay REC? 15:41:40 Ralph: no, let's not delay REC 15:42:04 Ben: there's other introductory material as well, e.g. in the Wiki 15:43:20 Mark: but I do see the argument in favor of removing the section on custom vocabularies 15:44:35 Ralph: there _are_ related documents out there; e.g. the Best Practice Recipes 15:45:30 Mark: but where are the limits on what we do? 15:47:34 Ralph: one of the things that distinguishes RDFa from microformats is that you _can_ define your own vocabulary when you decide that there's nothing existing that meets your needs 15:47:49 ... so I wouldn't want to drop this entirely from the Primer 15:48:10 ... it's not clear whether that commentor tried to follow the URIs 15:48:35 ... the early Web was built on cloning pages; the same works for these examples 15:50:44 ACTION: Ben ask Shane to produce an updated Syntax with editorial changes for the WG to review next week 15:51:08 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0041.html Jeremy's editorial suggestion 15:52:27 Note: A CURIE prefix value may case-insensitively begin in the string "xml", but then it is not permitted to be used as a prefix in an xmlns declaration in an XML document. 15:52:37 Jeremy: we should align the RDFa Syntax document and the CURIE spec as to whether a prefix can start with 'xml' 15:53:57 See the text: 15:53:57 [[ 15:53:57 prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the 'xmlns:' syntax specified in [XMLNAMES]. 15:53:57 ]] 15:55:13 "When CURIES are used in an XML-based host language, prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the 'xmlns:' syntax specified in [XMLNAMES]. Such host languages MAY also provide additional prefix mapping definition mechanisms. 15:55:14 When CURIES are used in a non-XML host language, the host language MUST provide a mechanism for defining the mapping from the prefix to an IRI." 15:55:32 Ralph: perhaps the 'xml' restriction is a Host Language restriction and not an RDFa or CURIE restriction 15:56:47 ... so RDFa and CURIE should remain silent on this point and leave it to the Host Language specs to declare any further restrictions 15:57:33 Mark: when I added that sentence I was thinking of prefixes such as '123abc' 15:57:47 ... it wouldn't hurt to add to CURIE the 'xml*' restriction 15:58:06 ... I think this would be a useful addition 15:58:54 Ralph: I'd make it an editorial Note: comment rather than make it appearing to be normative about CURIEs 16:00:32 Mark: I agree that the normative constraint is already covered by the "prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the 'xmlns:' syntax specified in [XMLNAMES]" language 16:00:44 ... I'm suggesting adding the comment as assistance to readers 16:00:52 Jeremy: an example would be informative 16:01:17 ... I'm happy with no change to RDFa Syntax 16:02:04 PROPOSE no modification to the RDFa Syntax document based on Jeremy's xmlse:foo comment 16:02:14 RESOLVED: no modification to the RDFa Syntax document based on Jeremy's xmlse:foo comment 16:02:40 accepted as commentator 16:02:43 [adjourned] 16:02:43 -markbirbeck 16:02:44 -Ben_Adida 16:02:49 -Ralph 16:02:49 SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended 16:02:50 Attendees were Jeremy, Ralph, Ben_Adida, markbirbeck 16:02:56 rrsagent, please draft minutes 16:02:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph 16:03:38 zakim, bye 16:03:38 Zakim has left #rdfa 16:03:39 rrsagent, bye 16:03:39 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-actions.rdf : 16:03:39 ACTION: Ben ask Shane to produce an updated Syntax with editorial changes for the WG to review next week [1] 16:03:39 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-irc#T15-50-44