Announcements & Agenda Shaping

RM: move forward from where we were last week

RM: action item review from last week

<Roland> actions at: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/open

RM: tracker now looking after actions and issues now

GJR notes that one should be able to bookmark a "my tracker" link for bookmarking if don't have one already

RM: actions from last week didn't get into tracking system

<Roland> last weeks actions: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes#ActionSummary

RM: 1 to shane to reply to comments; created draft - i and steven replied

SM: no other replies received

GJR: plus 1 to reply

RM: send response

SM: will make SP's suggested change and send out

RM: media type heuristic samples from SP to Tina

TH: being integrated as we speak - hope to publish by friday, will let list know

RM: still have to deal with @target - TH, didn't you take action item on that?

TH: yes - assigned last week

<Tina> I have some thoughts on the topic, but will assemble them later.

RM: CURIE syntax -- should have something shortly from TAG

SM: didn't know there were 2 tag mailing lists, so didn't know was second list until recently
... providing us with language to make us happy, but misquoted the document by suggesting new wording for an issue that doesn't exist - misquote def of lexical space
... as long as it is not wrong, just do it

RM: team meeting on modularization this week

GJR: also @lang discussion

RM: in latest mime-type document

From the Back Burner to the Front

RM: hoped to get new XHTML2 draft out, but waiting on cleaning of other docs

SM: XML Events 2, and CURIEs and Access

RM: all others moving through system; XML Events 2 stalled on way to LC

SM: waiting on comments from forms group as i recall

RM: asked them a question?

SM: yes
... SP had action to convey to forms; can't remember action

RM: me neither
... change of names - "dispatch" and the like...
... SM do you have handle on issues

SM: no outstanding issues, except we asked XForms for one thing because we didn't know what to do?

RM: timing questions?

SM: when are you fed registers?

<Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jun/0094.html

RM: reply to SP's question on this
... question posed - wasn't it originally markB's question?
... question is: can we be specific - expect before document is ready?
... farther into events or can you specify before

SM: before what?

RM: don't know - just trying to interpret their message

SM: unfortunate that we have to come up with an answer -- it is a DOM issue

RM: what can we rely on - execution of script during loading process - will be available before any user interactions?
... inspired by XForms

SM: most UAs allow user interaction beforeDOMReady, so don't know if we can make such a statement

RM: that's my point and why have to defer to DOM -- if present events prior to DomReady, can't tell you about it until DOMReady
... should pose question to DOM3 guys - had joint call with them previously (month or so ago)
... call with Doug Schepers - take back to doug and DOM guys and say "interesting question: what do YOU suggest?"

SM: reasonable

<scribe> ACTION: Roland - write to DOM3 guys on when registration will occur and when events can be fired; coordinate deeper discussion [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1 - - write to DOM3 guys on when registration will occur and when events can be fired; coordinate deeper discussion [on Roland Merrick - due 2008-10-08].

RM: led to second question: should listeners be "live"?
... "should listeners react?"
... answer proposed interesting, but not sure that i agree with it
... what is point of addListener - after executed expect that listener to be working

SM: my view is that the various XML Events attributes are processed atomically at some point in initialization process, so think have to act as if all initialized at once

RM: if add to DOM via script, want it to run pre-DOMReady or while loads

SM: if i had a script which provided new content that included an addListener; as part of my inner HTML call, going to trigger DOM mutation event, so some handler could know that there had been a change to the DOM and go and process it, but if implemented XML Events handler in javascript (client-side thing not built into UA) don't know when going to get event or if get reliably; don't want to have to traverse entire tree
... mutation events ocur in nodes, could walk down them - ugly, but doable

RM: what author expects to happen

GJR: would be good for Assistive Tech being prepared to use expert handler

RM: answer to listener live: yes; ignore if DOM mutation adds addListener should be processed as happens

SM: similarly, if Listener elements are removed, then what

RM: when add and remove -- what is processing model for segment -- if remove listener, that is fine (presumably executed at right time)
... if remove second node, may not get there anyway by DOM because nodes wouldn't generate any events because no longer exist

SM: shoe-horning declarative event model; DOM Event collection (stack for every event, lists handlers in bubbling order) -- if removing or adding nodes to DOM could pose problems;
... think way UAs work today, if use script element with AddEvent call in it, would that get executed?
... pretty sure answer is no

RM: if in function, and that function invoked, then would get executed

SM: sure
... if, for example, you implement listener through XML Events 2 declarative statements, and then you register handler that uses the listener (this event will result in action x in listener) - if remove from DOM, what would happen? thing in the DOM is not the script but something that told XML engine how to create an listener - not bound to DOM node anymore
... how i envision this model

RM: need to explore and map out actions: notification of events, removal of listings, should describe these scenarios
... XHR inserts code into DOM, when register listener should be able to assert when -- will continue to explore possibilities and what happens with registration and deregistration of listeners at load time and at unload; use XML Events as alternate for script need to define these options

<scribe> ACTION: Roland - explore possibilities and what happens with registration and deregistration of listeners at load time and at unload [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2 - - explore possibilities and what happens with registration and deregistration of listeners at load time and at unload [on Roland Merrick - due 2008-10-08].

<Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0035

XForms Group Feedback

RM: may have investigated - use @target in other places for other things

<Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Sep/0029

RM: "dispatch element" in XForms, we have "dispatch event"
... minutes from february f2f to find how "dispatch event" got in

<scribe> ACTION: Roland - review XML Events 2 issues comprehensively; [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - - review XML Events 2 issues comprehensively; [on Roland Merrick - due 2008-10-08].

RM: may thrash out at face2face and break-outs - will try to get as much info to the WG before F2F

Role Module Status

RM: where are we with Role? waiting on CURIEs?

SM: had comments from XML CG - just responded to them and posted to list
... waiting for CURIE transition before advance Role and Access

RM: anything outstanding with Access?

SM: some editorial changes, mostly just waiting

RM: Steven made changes to vocabulary document - should cover response to CG
... ready to adjourn?

GJR: second the motion

SM: use balance of time to respond to simon about xhtml mime document

ADJOURNED

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
Found ScribeNick: oedipus
Default Present: Gregory_Rosmaita, Tina, Roland, ShaneM
Present: Gregory_Rosmaita Tina Roland ShaneM
Regrets: Mark_Birbeck
Got date from IRC log name: 01 Oct 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html
People with action items: - roland write

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