IRC log of css on 2008-10-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:50:56 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #css
15:50:56 [RRSAgent]
logging to
15:51:03 [glazou]
Zakim, this will be Style
15:51:03 [Zakim]
ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
15:58:27 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:58:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.324.aaaa
15:58:51 [glazou]
This will be my 4th conf call in a row, please excuse if some of my neurones fused...
15:59:16 [Zakim]
15:59:30 [Zakim]
+ +95089aabb
15:59:37 [glazou]
Zakim, +95089aabb is me
15:59:37 [Zakim]
+glazou; got it
16:00:11 [sylvaing]
sylvaing has joined #css
16:01:17 [jason_cranfordtea]
jason_cranfordtea has joined #css
16:01:30 [glazou]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:01:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.206.324.aaaa, plinss, glazou
16:01:47 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.533.aacc
16:01:58 [glazou]
Zakim, +1.206.324.aaaa is sylvaing
16:01:58 [Zakim]
+sylvaing; got it
16:02:26 [Zakim]
16:02:37 [dbaron]
Zakim, [Mozilla] has David_Baron
16:02:37 [Zakim]
+David_Baron; got it
16:02:46 [dbaron]
Zakim, who is noisy?
16:02:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.265.aadd
16:02:52 [glazou]
regrets from molly and jeffrey
16:02:57 [Zakim]
dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (66%), ??P22 (38%)
16:03:20 [glazou]
Zakim, +1.703.265.aadd is jason_cranfordtea
16:03:20 [Zakim]
+jason_cranfordtea; got it
16:03:25 [Zakim]
16:03:39 [dbaron]
yeah, the tapping noise was glazou
16:03:53 [Zakim]
16:04:09 [Zakim]
16:04:13 [Zakim]
16:04:23 [glazou]
Zakim, +??P31 is fantasai
16:04:23 [Zakim]
sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named '+??P31'
16:04:30 [glazou]
Zakim, ??P31 is fantasai
16:04:30 [Zakim]
+fantasai; got it
16:04:39 [arronei]
I'm only on IRC today.
16:04:40 [Zakim]
16:05:31 [fantasai_]
fantasai_ has joined #css
16:05:42 [glazou]
hi arronei, np
16:06:26 [fantasai_]
ScribeNick: fantasai_
16:06:26 [arronei]
Hi, its my birthday today so I am trying to take it easy.
16:06:34 [fantasai_]
Happy Birthday :)
16:06:35 [glazou]
happy birthday arronei!!!!!
16:06:45 [Bert]
16:06:46 [glazou]
what are doing here then ?
16:06:54 [glazou]
16:06:56 [SaloniR]
SaloniR has joined #css
16:06:56 [arronei]
I still love CSS.
16:07:07 [glazou]
16:07:08 [Bert]
16:07:10 [sylvaing]
...against all odds...
16:07:12 [jason_cranfordtea]
well why don't you marry it then
16:07:19 [Bert]
16:07:22 [glazou]
16:07:26 [plinss]
zakim, +1.425.533 is SaloniR
16:07:26 [Zakim]
+SaloniR; got it
16:07:32 [arronei]
no marriage is a bit too far for me right now
16:08:15 [fantasai_]
Daniel: Any other items for agenda?
16:08:41 [fantasai_]
Daniel: I tried to get agenda items from both mailing lists, let me know if I missed any
16:08:45 [fantasai_]
Topic: Charter
16:08:55 [fantasai_]
Daniel: Charter was sent by IJ to list of AC reps for approval and vote
16:09:14 [fantasai_]
Daniel: In case they missed it, I suggest you ping your AC reps to let them know that the charter is up for approval
16:09:26 [fantasai_]
Daniel: In the voter form, the AC rep needs to indicate intent or not to join WG
16:09:32 [fantasai_]
Daniel: It's important, please don't miss it
16:09:45 [fantasai_]
Topic: CSS3 Marquee
16:09:51 [glazou]
16:10:14 [fantasai_]
Daniel: First issue is about potential change in 'direction' of marquee
16:10:48 [glazou]
Note that the 'direction' property is often set by rules
16:10:49 [glazou]
in the UA style sheet based on mark-up in the document, as
16:10:49 [glazou]
recommended in CSS 2.1 [CSS21] section 9.10 ("Text direction:
16:10:49 [glazou]
the 'direction' and 'unicode-bidi' properties").
16:12:31 [fantasai]
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16:12:42 [fantasai_]
fantasai: works for me, I think we should add it
16:13:01 [fantasai_]
RESOLVED: Accepted to add Bert's note
16:13:29 [fantasai_]
Daniel: Question is shall we publish css3-marquee as CR.
16:13:41 [fantasai_]
Daniel: Got 2 comments from i18n, above and one other, both are resolved.
16:13:52 [fantasai_]
Daniel: Any objections to moving to CR?
16:14:15 [fantasai_]
RESOLVED: Publish CSS3 Marquee as CR
16:14:38 [fantasai_]
ACTION: Bert publish CSS3 Marquee as CR
16:14:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-109 - Publish CSS3 Marquee as CR [on Bert Bos - due 2008-10-08].
16:14:47 [fantasai_]
ScribeNick: fantasai
16:15:00 [fantasai]
Topic: CSS2.1
16:15:14 [fantasai]
Daniel: Many recent comments about spec, mostly from Saloni
16:15:16 [fantasai]
Daniel: First one
16:15:17 [glazou]
16:15:43 [fantasai]
16:15:50 [fantasai]
16:15:50 [Bert]
(Publishing moratorium is 13 Oct - 27 Oct)
16:16:01 [fantasai]
Peter: The more I think about it, the more I think we should not allow comments in URLs
16:16:16 [fantasai]
Peter: comment delimiters are valid URL syntax, and URLs have a special tokenization
16:16:25 [fantasai]
Peter: you're not in normal CSS rules
16:16:39 [fantasai]
Peter: There are places where you can determine whether it's a comment or part of URL
16:16:46 [fantasai]
Peter: other places where you can't
16:17:05 [fantasai]
dbaron: Are there any browsers that don't do what you think we should do?
16:17:19 [fantasai]
Peter: I talked with zweinberg
16:17:38 [fantasai]
Peter: Opera does not allow comments within parentheses
16:17:44 [fantasai]
dbaron: I'm ok with the proposal given that
16:18:06 [fantasai]
Jason: I did a quick search, don't see anyone using it as a hack either
16:18:13 [dbaron]
I agree with Peter about how it should work.
16:18:13 [fantasai]
dbaron: IE7 and Gecko allow comments
16:18:22 [dbaron]
16:18:53 [fantasai]
Daniel: So if proposal is accepted, there's no change for Opera, slight change for Mozilla and IE
16:18:59 [fantasai]
Daniel: David is ok with it
16:19:03 [fantasai]
Daniel: What about MS?
16:19:22 [fantasai]
dsinger: Anyone know about webkit?
16:19:25 [Bert]
Konqueror seems not to allow comments.
16:19:50 [fantasai]
ACTION: Saloni return to WG with response about whether proposal is accepted
16:19:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-110 - Return to WG with response about whether proposal is accepted [on Saloni Mira Rai - due 2008-10-08].
16:20:01 [Bert]
Webkit seems the same as Konqueror.
16:20:01 [fantasai]
dbaron: So my understanding is no change to the spec
16:20:10 [fantasai]
Daniel: We might need a note saying that it's explicitly forbidden
16:20:30 [fantasai]
Peter: There are various bits of text in the spec that talk about comments
16:20:36 [fantasai]
Peter: Saying that they're allowed between any tokens
16:20:57 [fantasai]
Peter: and URL is one token
16:21:27 [fantasai]
ACTION: Peter create note about how URL has its own syntax and parsing rules
16:21:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-111 - Create note about how URL has its own syntax and parsing rules [on Peter Linss - due 2008-10-08].
16:21:42 [fantasai]
Peter: I also noticed that the grammar for URL leaves out a-z and 0-9
16:21:52 [fantasai]
dbaron: There might be a range in there that doesn't look like a range
16:22:01 [fantasai]
Peter: I didn't see one
16:22:12 [fantasai]
dbaron: *-~ is a range, and includes everything you mentioned
16:22:29 [glazou]
16:23:46 [fantasai]
fantasai: I am strongly in agreement with the proposal
16:25:22 [MoZ]
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16:25:25 [fantasai]
16:25:29 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: Accepted
16:25:30 [glazou]
16:25:58 [dsinger]
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16:25:59 [fantasai]
Saloni: With fixed table layout in CSS, if a row has more columns than the first row
16:26:14 [fantasai]
Saloni: The spec says you shouldn't render those columns, but the browsers actually do render those cells
16:26:28 [fantasai]
Saloni: I understand the value of fixed layout, I think it's important
16:26:42 [glazou]
np Moz
16:26:56 [fantasai]
Saloni: So I propose relaxing the requirement in CSS2.1, and then clarify in CSS3 what exactly should happen
16:27:06 [glazou]
regrets now: molly, jeffrey, mohamed
16:28:06 [fantasai]
dbaron: That would leave internal contradictions in the spec
16:28:16 [fantasai]
fantasai: we could say that if there are extra cells, rendering is undefined
16:28:40 [fantasai]
fantasai: or at least the widths of columns and the table are undefined
16:29:11 [sylvaing]
agrees with Elika+Saloni
16:29:16 [fantasai]
Saloni: So we'd be saying if you have fixed table layout, and extra cells, the layout is undefined
16:31:36 [fantasai]
ACTION: Saloni propose text for CSS2.1 Issue 75
16:31:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-112 - Propose text for CSS2.1 Issue 75 [on Saloni Mira Rai - due 2008-10-08].
16:31:38 [glazou]
16:32:02 [Zakim]
16:32:09 [fantasai]
Saloni: That's resolved, we got an explanation of why this rule is in place
16:32:12 [glazou]
16:32:59 [Zakim]
16:33:58 [fantasai]
16:34:39 [Zakim]
16:35:29 [dsinger]
at&t signal trouble, sorry
16:35:36 [glazou]
np dsinger
16:35:38 [Zakim]
16:36:01 [dsinger]
no, the apple call is not jcraig but dsinger
16:36:08 [anne]
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16:37:03 [fantasai]
When formatting content in the page model, some content may end up outside the *current* page box. For example, an element whose 'white-space' property has the value 'pre' may generate a box that is wider than the page box. Also, when boxes are positioned absolutely *or relatively*, they may end up in "inconvenient" locations. For example, images may be placed on the edge of the page box or 100,000 meters below the page box.
16:38:24 [fantasai]
Daniel: Change "Also" to "As another example"
16:38:53 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: Accepted above proposal
16:38:56 [glazou]
16:40:48 [fantasai]
Daniel: "Parts of the fixed position box that are not visible in the initial containing block will not print"
16:41:24 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: Proposal accepted with above change.
16:41:39 [glazou]
16:42:09 [anne]
anne has left #css
16:42:28 [fantasai]
16:43:43 [glazou]
plinss, can you take the floor for a minute please ?
16:44:35 [glazou]
or Bert ?
16:46:29 [fantasai]
Added to agenda for TPAC
16:46:30 [fantasai]
16:48:38 [fantasai]
fantasai: Jason, I think we'll want your feedback on this issue
16:51:34 [Bert]
(Prince shows a third option: the box is 500px high on *both* pages. I don't particularly like that solution.)
16:51:47 [Bert]
16:52:30 [fantasai]
fantasai: So I think the distance between the bottom of the last content on the page that fit and the bottom of the page should not count as part of the used height
16:52:43 [fantasai]
fantasai: So in this case you would still have used height left over that you use on the next page
16:52:52 [fantasai]
fantasai: Whether the background prints in that space is a separate issue
16:54:26 [fantasai]
Jason: I should be able to be online 9-5 EST during TPAC
16:54:34 [fantasai]
Daniel: Postponed to TPAC
16:55:01 [fantasai]
Topic: Media Queries
16:55:07 [glazou]
16:55:11 [fantasai]
dbaron: Given that anne isn't here, we should postpone that one
16:56:23 [Zakim]
16:56:24 [Zakim]
16:56:25 [Zakim]
16:56:26 [Zakim]
16:56:26 [Zakim]
16:56:27 [Zakim]
16:56:27 [Zakim]
16:56:29 [Zakim]
16:56:30 [glazou]
plinss: ping
16:56:33 [Zakim]
16:56:35 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
16:56:35 [plinss]
16:56:36 [Zakim]
Attendees were plinss, glazou, +1.425.533.aacc, sylvaing, David_Baron, jason_cranfordtea, DaveS, fantasai, Bert, SaloniR, jcraig
16:56:41 [dbaron]
Oh, the TPAC is a week further away than I was thinking it was.
16:56:49 [dsinger]
jcraig was an illusion
16:56:56 [dsinger]
that was me
16:57:27 [glazou]
dsinger: tss tss :-)
16:59:03 [dsinger]
I don't know how to tell Zakim that that is the apple corporate line (I re-dialed from my desk)
17:10:43 [dbaron]
I emailed dsinger with the URL
17:37:57 [fantasai]
RRSAgent: make logs public
17:59:54 [fantasai]
Bert, let me know when you get around to making all the outstanding CSS2.1 edits
18:06:44 [fantasai]
RRSAgent: make minutes
18:06:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fantasai
18:19:14 [Zakim]
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19:08:58 [nickshanks]
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19:54:28 [anne]
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19:55:38 [anne]
my apologies, I was at the Ajax Experience