IRC log of swd on 2008-09-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:11 [RRSAgent]
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14:55:11 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-irc
14:55:18 [Ralph]
Meeting: SemWeb Deployment WG
14:55:22 [Zakim]
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14:55:27 [Ralph]
zakim, this will be swd
14:55:27 [Zakim]
ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:55:29 [berrueta]
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14:55:35 [Ralph]
rrsagent, please make record public
14:55:50 [Ralph]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0049.html
14:55:55 [Ralph]
Chair: Guus
14:57:12 [TomB]
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14:57:18 [Ralph]
Regrets: Simone, Elisa, Daniel
14:57:26 [Ralph]
Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-swd-minutes.html
14:58:22 [Zakim]
SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started
14:58:29 [Zakim]
+??P18
14:58:35 [seanb]
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14:58:40 [TomB]
zakim, ??P18 is TomB
14:58:41 [Zakim]
+TomB; got it
14:58:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.252.aaaa
14:59:04 [edsu]
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14:59:17 [Ralph]
zakim, aaaa is Ralph
14:59:17 [Zakim]
+Ralph; got it
14:59:44 [Zakim]
+VeroniqueM
14:59:50 [JonP]
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15:00:07 [marghe]
marghe has joined #swd
15:00:12 [Guus]
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15:00:48 [Ralph]
zakim, veroniqueM is Guus
15:00:48 [Zakim]
+[CTIC]
15:00:50 [Zakim]
+Guus; got it
15:01:00 [Zakim]
+Jon_Phipps
15:01:00 [Ralph]
zakim, ctic is Diego
15:01:01 [berrueta]
zakim, [CTIC
15:01:03 [Zakim]
+Diego; got it
15:01:05 [Zakim]
I don't understand '[CTIC', berrueta
15:01:12 [Zakim]
+[LC]
15:01:13 [edsu]
zakim, LC is edsu
15:01:21 [Zakim]
+edsu; got it
15:01:27 [aliman]
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15:01:33 [JonP]
zakim, Jon_Phipps is me
15:01:33 [Zakim]
+JonP; got it
15:01:33 [Guus]
zakim, who is here?
15:01:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see TomB, Ralph, Guus, Diego, JonP, edsu
15:01:42 [Zakim]
On IRC I see aliman, Guus, marghe, JonP, edsu, seanb, TomB, berrueta, Zakim, RRSAgent, Ralph
15:02:04 [Zakim]
+??P20
15:02:19 [Ralph]
zakim, ??p20 is Margherita
15:02:19 [Zakim]
+Margherita; got it
15:02:44 [Zakim]
+??P36
15:02:53 [dlrubin]
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15:03:00 [Zakim]
+??P38
15:03:02 [Ralph]
zakim, ??p36 is Daniel
15:03:02 [Zakim]
+Daniel; got it
15:03:05 [Zakim]
+??P34
15:03:06 [Ralph]
regrets- Daniel
15:03:08 [seanb]
zakim, ??P38 is me
15:03:08 [Zakim]
+seanb; got it
15:03:22 [Ralph]
zakim, ??p34 is Alistair
15:03:22 [Zakim]
+Alistair; got it
15:03:33 [Guus]
zakim, who is here?
15:03:33 [Zakim]
On the phone I see TomB, Ralph, Guus, Diego, JonP, edsu, Margherita, Daniel, seanb, Alistair
15:03:35 [Zakim]
On IRC I see dlrubin, aliman, Guus, marghe, JonP, edsu, seanb, TomB, berrueta, Zakim, RRSAgent, Ralph
15:03:45 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Ralph
15:03:54 [Ralph]
scribe: Ralph
15:04:07 [edsu]
Zakim++
15:04:45 [Ralph]
Topic: Admin
15:04:52 [Ralph]
zakim, list participants
15:04:52 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been TomB, +1.617.252.aaaa, Ralph, Guus, Diego, edsu, JonP, Margherita, Daniel, seanb, Alistair
15:05:16 [Ralph]
Guus: schedule for future telecons?
15:05:24 [Ralph]
Tom: haven't created a proposal yet
15:05:40 [TomB]
+1 for 7 October next call
15:05:47 [Antoine]
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15:05:55 [Ralph]
RESOLVED: next telecon 7 October
15:06:05 [Ralph]
... Tom to chair
15:06:32 [Ralph]
Jon: I'm at risk for 7 Oct
15:06:40 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose seanb
15:07:04 [Zakim]
+??P5
15:07:08 [aliman]
/me would be happy to take it in turns with someone
15:07:18 [Ralph]
zakim, ??p5 is Antoine
15:07:18 [Zakim]
+Antoine; got it
15:07:45 [Ralph]
Ed: I will scribe on 7 Oct
15:08:04 [Ralph]
Antone: regrets for 7 Oct
15:08:14 [Zakim]
+Ben_Adida
15:08:18 [benadida]
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15:08:32 [Ralph]
PROPOSED: accept http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-swd-minutes.html as minutes of previous meeting
15:08:39 [Ralph]
Sean: I'd indicated my regrets
15:09:24 [Ralph]
RESOLVED: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-swd-minutes.html as minutes of previous meeting, amended to show Sean's regrets
15:09:33 [Ralph]
s/as min/accepted as min
15:09:49 [Ralph]
Topic: RDFa
15:10:21 [Ralph]
Ben: no specific update; we have to schedule the last step
15:10:30 [Ralph]
... only minor comments received during PR; some typos
15:10:38 [Ralph]
... I need to tweak the Primer
15:10:55 [Ralph]
... we've had positive comments on the Primer but some recent comments say there's not enough in it
15:11:08 [Ralph]
... we want to have an updated version to publish with the REC
15:12:51 [Ralph]
Ralph: It's important that WG members get their AC reps to respond to the Call for Reviwe
15:14:10 [Ralph]
ACTION: All to remind respective AC Reps to respond to RDFa Proposed Rec Call for Review
15:15:25 [Ralph]
Guus: schedule also says we'll publish RDFa Use Cases as WG Note
15:15:34 [Ralph]
Ben: yep, we should see if it needs any updates
15:15:51 [Ralph]
ACTION: Ben review RDFa Use Cases and propose transition to Group Note
15:16:02 [Ralph]
Topic: Recipes
15:16:07 [Ralph]
Guus: I think we're done here
15:16:25 [Ralph]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20]
15:16:35 [Ralph]
Topic: RDFa Metadata Note
15:16:47 [Ralph]
Guus: was this discussed at the previous telecon?
15:16:53 [Ralph]
Diego: there's a new version in the Wiki
15:17:06 [Ralph]
... but I haven't yet discussed this draft with Ed
15:17:24 [Ralph]
... hope to discuss with Ed in the next few days and then have a version for the WG
15:17:56 [Ralph]
ACTION: Diego updates "Minimum RDFa metadata set for WG deliverables" draft in the wiki
15:18:27 [Ralph]
Ed: I read the previous draft and found a few minor things, would like to talk about this in a telecon; in particular, talk about the various vocabularies to use
15:18:54 [Ralph]
Diego: I propose that Ed and I talk about it during the week and we put it on the agenda for 7 October
15:19:35 [Ralph]
Topic: CURIE
15:19:53 [Ralph]
[DONE] ACTION: Jeremy to send a review to XHTML2 with comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-swd-minutes.html#action06]
15:20:10 [Ralph]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0042.html "CURIE review from SWD WG" [Jeremy 2008-09-22]
15:20:26 [Ralph]
Topic: Vocabulary Management
15:20:31 [Ralph]
Guus: no status change
15:20:33 [Ralph]
Topic: SKOS
15:20:55 [Ralph]
Alistair: [reviews comments received]
15:21:30 [Ralph]
... comment about disjointness of ConceptScheme and Concept
15:21:52 [Ralph]
... hasTopConcept v. hasTopConceptOf
15:22:02 [Ralph]
... mappings
15:22:23 [aliman]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0014.html
15:22:36 [aliman]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0015.html
15:22:39 [Ralph]
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/129 Last Call Comment: S9 skos:ConceptScheme is disjoint with skos:Concept
15:22:55 [aliman]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0026.html
15:22:59 [Ralph]
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/130 Last Call Comment: skos:hasTopConcept and skos:topConceptOf
15:23:01 [aliman]
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/LastCall#preview
15:23:18 [Ralph]
Alistair: I've linked all these messages from LastCall#preview
15:23:30 [aliman]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0037.html
15:23:37 [Ralph]
... Quentin spotted an error in an example
15:23:48 [aliman]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0044.html
15:24:03 [JeremyCarroll]
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15:24:07 [aliman]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0055.html
15:24:09 [Ralph]
... several comments from Michael Schneider, I broke out into separate issues
15:24:33 [Ralph]
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/raised SKOS Issues Raised
15:24:42 [aliman]
5 external last call comments
15:24:46 [Ralph]
Sean: I expect a comment from Peter Patel-Schneider about some of the OWL
15:25:07 [Ralph]
Alistair++ for entering these into tracker
15:25:18 [Ralph]
Antoine: I found another, from 28 June
15:25:24 [Ralph]
... from Eric Enum
15:25:27 [Ralph]
... of IBM
15:25:45 [Ralph]
Alistair: I was wondering whether this should be entered as if it were a Last Call comment
15:26:05 [Ralph]
Ralph, Guus: yes, we should include Eric's message among Last Call comments
15:26:12 [Ralph]
Alistair: I'll generate issues for it
15:26:35 [Ralph]
Guus: I don't see many comments from the thesaurus or representation fields
15:27:17 [Ralph]
... should we extend Last Call to get more comments?
15:27:29 [Ralph]
Ralph: is the esw-thes list sufficiently represented? Could we get more expressions of support?
15:27:40 [Ralph]
Alistair: we could definitely get more expressions of support
15:27:45 [Ralph]
Ralph: that would be helpful
15:27:54 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.215.aabb
15:27:54 [Ralph]
Guus: do we have input on our features at risk?
15:28:03 [Ralph]
Alistair: yes, in particular from Kjetl
15:28:07 [Ralph]
zakim, aabb is Jeremy
15:28:07 [Zakim]
+Jeremy; got it
15:28:40 [Ralph]
ACTION: Alistair enter Last Call issues from Eric Enum's 28 June mail
15:29:09 [Ralph]
Sean: we've had no comments about the namespace
15:29:29 [Ralph]
s/Eric Enum/Erik Hennum/G
15:29:50 [Ralph]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jun/0103.html "SKOS comment" [Erik Hennum 2008-06-27]
15:30:15 [Ralph]
Margherita: I have not yet had time to update [my work] with the latest SKOS
15:30:30 [Ralph]
... I might ask folk in Sicily; they have a glossary and other resources
15:30:51 [Ralph]
s/Sicily/the Fisheries Department
15:31:15 [Ralph]
Guus: I'll ask some folk here to comment
15:31:52 [Ralph]
Ed: Clay and I are the primary Library of Congress folk working with SKOS right now
15:32:17 [Ralph]
... I might be able to get a general note of support but unlikely to get specific comments on the namespace
15:32:52 [Ralph]
Ralph: it would be good to get a consensus from esw-thes on the namespace question
15:33:08 [Ralph]
Alistair: I can ask that list explicitly; I've just sent a reminder
15:33:44 [TomB]
q+ to suggest to Ed that a note of support and interest from someone at LC, even just a one-liner, would be helpful
15:33:49 [Ralph]
Guus: I am worried that we don't have enough input on the features at risk
15:34:07 [Ralph]
Ralph: right, folks who like what we've proposed may feel they don't need to comment but the opposite is true
15:34:28 [Ralph]
Jon: Ed and I have presented SKOS at CAUSE conferences, including noting the features at risk
15:34:36 [Ralph]
... there have been no objections
15:34:45 [Ralph]
Guus: it would be helpful to send a mail with that
15:34:50 [Zakim]
TomB, you wanted to suggest to Ed that a note of support and interest from someone at LC, even just a one-liner, would be helpful
15:35:21 [Ralph]
Ed: ok, but not from me or Clay, right?
15:35:27 [Ralph]
Tom: right; better from Barbara
15:35:53 [Ralph]
Ed: dbpedia uses SKOS quite heavily in their datastore; has anyone approached them?
15:36:31 [Ralph]
ACTION: Ed ask dbpedia to send a message in support of SKOS
15:36:55 [Ralph]
Ed: I could also contact the Department of Agriculture Library
15:37:32 [Ralph]
Guus: should we formally extend Last Call or just accept comments until 14 October?
15:37:36 [Ralph]
Ralph: I'm happy either way
15:37:44 [Ralph]
Guus: most WGs accept comments even if they arrive late
15:37:54 [JeremyCarroll]
(There is no option to reject late comments .... but one can take the lateness into account)
15:38:33 [Ralph]
Guus: Alistair; what, in your opinion, are the major comments
15:38:59 [Ralph]
Alistair: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/129 issue 129 ConceptScheme and Concept
15:39:26 [Ralph]
Sean: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/135 issue 135; should the label properties be subClassOf rdfs:Label
15:40:18 [Ralph]
... Michael Schneider suggests that the label properties *not* be sub properties of rdfs:label
15:40:27 [Ralph]
... I recall a related comment from Bernard Vatant
15:40:42 [Ralph]
... some tools want the subPropertyOf so they can pull the labels out easily
15:40:51 [JeremyCarroll]
(as a tool builder I am keen for all label props to be subPropertyOf rdfs:Label)
15:41:08 [Ralph]
Guus: [my group] depends on subPropertyOf a lot; we don't have to adapt our software that looks for rdfs:label
15:41:54 [Ralph]
Alistair: there might be a different way to do this in OWL2 than what we currently use
15:43:08 [Ralph]
... Alan Ruttenburg sent mail recently that might be relevant
15:44:04 [aliman]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2008Sep/0024.html Alan Ruttenberg links to OWL 2 annotations proposal
15:45:10 [aliman]
-> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Syntax#Annotations OWL 2 Syntax -- Annotations
15:50:08 [JeremyCarroll]
q+
15:51:37 [JeremyCarroll]
ack
15:52:17 [JeremyCarroll]
q-
15:52:44 [dlrubin]
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15:53:56 [Ralph]
[DONE] ACTION: SKOS Reference editors to send mail asking for feedback from users [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-minutes.html#action06]
15:54:15 [Ralph]
[DONE] ACTION: Sean to add a request for implementations to the mail asking for feedback [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-minutes.html#action07]
15:54:35 [Ralph]
ACTION: Alistair to update the history page adding direct link to latest version of rdf triple [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-minutes.html#action01]
15:54:37 [Ralph]
-- continues
15:54:41 [aliman]
sorry for no progress on that
15:56:05 [Ralph]
Guus: it would be nice to show implementations
15:56:29 [Ralph]
... every vocabulary owner who uses SKOS to produce a compliant thesaurus should be considered an implementation
15:56:43 [Ralph]
... we should find some example thesaurii that use features from our spec
15:56:59 [Ralph]
... finding one or two such vocabularies for each feature would make a nice implementation report
15:57:45 [Ralph]
... showing some vocabularies that use the label features would be good
15:58:00 [Ralph]
Jon: what's the timeframe for implementation responses?
15:58:13 [Ralph]
Guus: during Candidate Rec phase, which is typically 4-6 weeks
15:58:42 [Zakim]
-Ben_Adida
15:59:12 [TomB]
Ralph: We can propose what our own Candidate Rec exit criteria are. Traditionally, two independent implementations. Traditionally, candidate rec lasts as long as it takes to get implementations.
16:00:04 [Ralph]
Jeremy: recently most groups have been very close to meeting their CR exit criteria before they enter CR
16:00:34 [TomB]
JonP: We have 100+ vocabularies in the registries. Have been avoiding switching over these vocabularies to new namespace because may be messy.
16:00:41 [Ralph]
Jon: I may be able to submit some examples but it will take a while
16:00:53 [Ralph]
Alistair: do the implementations have to be publicly available
16:01:14 [Ralph]
s/able/able?/
16:01:33 [aliman]
s/Alistair/Antoine/
16:01:40 [Ralph]
Ralph: we can accept an email message from an implementor describing their experiences, without making the code public
16:01:54 [Ralph]
Jeremy: that mail can even go to a Member- or Team-confidential list :)
16:02:11 [Ralph]
[adjourned]
16:02:14 [Zakim]
-Daniel
16:02:16 [Zakim]
-Jeremy
16:02:17 [Zakim]
-Diego
16:02:18 [Zakim]
-Guus
16:02:19 [seanb]
seanb has left #swd
16:02:21 [Zakim]
-Margherita
16:02:22 [Zakim]
-Alistair
16:02:25 [Zakim]
-JonP
16:02:27 [Zakim]
-Antoine
16:02:28 [Zakim]
-TomB
16:02:36 [Zakim]
-Ralph
16:02:38 [berrueta]
berrueta has left #swd
16:02:38 [Zakim]
-edsu
16:02:40 [Zakim]
-seanb
16:02:42 [Zakim]
SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
16:02:44 [Zakim]
Attendees were TomB, +1.617.252.aaaa, Ralph, Guus, Diego, edsu, JonP, Margherita, Daniel, seanb, Alistair, Antoine, Ben_Adida, +1.650.215.aabb, Jeremy
16:02:47 [Ralph]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:02:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-minutes.html Ralph
16:02:52 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #swd
16:02:56 [edsu]
edsu has left #swd
16:04:01 [Ralph]
rrsagent, bye
16:04:01 [RRSAgent]
I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-actions.rdf :
16:04:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: All to remind respective AC Reps to respond to RDFa Proposed Rec Call for Review [1]
16:04:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-irc#T15-14-10
16:04:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ben review RDFa Use Cases and propose transition to Group Note [2]
16:04:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-irc#T15-15-51
16:04:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Diego updates "Minimum RDFa metadata set for WG deliverables" draft in the wiki [3]
16:04:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-irc#T15-17-56
16:04:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alistair enter Last Call issues from Eric Enum's 28 June mail [4]
16:04:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-irc#T15-28-40
16:04:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ed ask dbpedia to send a message in support of SKOS [5]
16:04:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-irc#T15-36-31
16:04:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alistair to update the history page adding direct link to latest version of rdf triple [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-minutes.html#action01] [6]
16:04:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-irc#T15-54-35