15:50:15 RRSAgent has joined #soap-jms 15:50:15 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-soap-jms-irc 15:50:17 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:50:17 Zakim has joined #soap-jms 15:50:19 Zakim, this will be SJMS 15:50:19 ok, trackbot; I see WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM scheduled to start in 10 minutes 15:50:20 Meeting: SOAP-JMS Binding Working Group Teleconference 15:50:20 Date: 30 September 2008 15:55:19 alewis has joined #soap-jms 15:58:59 peaston has joined #soap-jms 15:59:42 WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM has now started 15:59:43 + +0196270aaaa 15:59:59 Derek has joined #soap-jms 16:00:36 zakim, aaaa is markphillips 16:00:36 +markphillips; got it 16:00:42 + +1.708.246.aabb 16:00:56 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-soap-jms/2008Sep/0036.html 16:01:07 +Peter_Easton 16:01:53 Zakim, aabb is Derek 16:01:53 +Derek; got it 16:02:18 +[IBM] 16:02:18 -[IBM] 16:02:18 +[IBM] 16:02:25 Regrets: Roland 16:02:39 Phil has joined #soap-jms 16:02:44 Zakim IBM is Phil 16:03:00 Zakim, IBM is Phil 16:03:01 +Phil; got it 16:03:40 +Yves 16:03:59 + +1.919.742.aacc 16:05:05 eric has joined #soap-jms 16:06:17 +[TIBCO] 16:07:08 Scribe: Eric 16:07:18 Chair: markphillips 16:07:51 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-soap-jms/2008Sep/0035.html 16:07:59 Topic: Use of TextMessage 16:08:16 mark: phil please talk us through text message. 16:08:50 phil: Agreeing with Eric that we don't need to explicitly say in the SOAP/JMS binding spec how a client would be told to use a bytes message or a text message. 16:09:04 ... instead we can be vague and leave it up to the vendor runtime to determine that. 16:10:09 ... also no changes needed in the URI scheme for the purposes of text messages. 16:10:35 ... If we're going to leave it up to the vendors, then it doesn't make sense to change the URI scheme - at least nothing additional in the spec. 16:11:10 ... suggested changes are in the email linked to above. 16:15:37 mark: we should get agreement on the call today, and then check with people who are not here. 16:16:59 Amy: no objections 16:17:12 Derek: no objections so far. Want to read it over again. 16:17:21 eric: no objections 16:17:31 mark: mark no objections 16:17:38 peter: objections 16:17:42 phil: no objections 16:17:55 Yves: as long as we achieve interoperability. 16:18:27 action Mark to send out a note to confirm that Glen, Bhakti, Roland have no objections. 16:18:27 Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Mark 16:18:27 Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. mhapner, mphillip) 16:18:38 action markphillips to send out a note to confirm that Glen, Bhakti, Roland have no objections. 16:18:38 Sorry, couldn't find user - markphillips 16:21:26 action mphillips to send out a note to confirm that Glen, Bhakti, Roland have no objections. 16:21:26 Sorry, couldn't find user - mphillips 16:21:51 eric: Do need to clarify some of the details of the use of text message. 16:22:23 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-soap-jms/2008Sep/0036.html 16:22:40 action eric to write up details around the use of text message, specifically addressing the "encoding" element in XML, the increased size as a consequence of base64 encoding. 16:22:40 Created ACTION-36 - Write up details around the use of text message, specifically addressing the \"encoding\" element in XML, the increased size as a consequence of base64 encoding. [on Eric Johnson - due 2008-10-07]. 16:23:37 action mphillip to send out a note to confirm that Glen, Bhakti, Roland have no objections. 16:24:47 action "Mark Phillips" to send out a note to confirm that Glen, Bhakti, Roland have no objections. 16:25:39 peter: think we perhaps should standardize the flagging of which message type to use in the WSDL, it would increase interoperability. 16:27:56 phil: Not sure why we wouldn't go to also carry the details in the URI. 16:28:44 eric: Yes, but JMS URI is used in non SOAP-JMS cases, and if we added messagetype to URI in its full generality, there are a lot of message types we need to cover for which we don't have use cases. 16:29:11 phil: we don't require the use of WSDL, doesn't that make it compelling to put it in both places. 16:29:30 peter: Yes, but we're not just talking about programmatic use, even inspection by humans has value. 16:30:24 mark: don't we have properties that are not in the URI spec, but that are in the SOAP binding spec as details to be carried in the URI. 16:34:40 phil: OK with not specifying it in either place. 16:36:46 eric: Note that specifying the message type does not have any affect on the quality of service 16:36:52 is the API abe to use _transfer encoding_ at the HTTP level? (at the application level, it should be transparent), so I guess the discussion is more on the possible encodings returned in Content-Encoding 16:37:34 mark: I guess we did already specify that a server must respond in kind to text/bytes message. 16:40:06 phil: If we're going to put a binary message in a string, then we have to do base-64 encoding, don't we. 16:40:49 Yves: yes - if it is a JPEG, then you would have to use base64.... 16:41:56 q+ 16:42:41 Phil: we don't want to have to use base64, but if that is what the user requests, then that's what we should deliver. 16:43:05 Zakim, list 16:43:05 I see WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM active 16:43:06 also scheduled at this time are Team_(foo)16:33Z, SW_HCLS(Chairs)12:00PM, SW_RIF()11:00AM, XML_ET-TF()11:00AM, SYMM_WG()12:00PM 16:44:40 Amy: base64 is remarkably inefficient in UTF-16 - and the JMS API uses String.... 16:45:09 ... also note that there is a security issue here that this could consume large amounts of memory.... 16:45:34 mark: eric should include the discussion here into writeup on TextMessage. 16:46:38 phil: incumbent on runtime vendors to document how to use TextMessage, and why to avoid it.... Need to give the customers the tools to decide. 16:47:19 Amy: incumbent upon us note in the specification that the bloat may disappear on the network, but will still have it in memory. 16:47:26 phil: not sure about the security implications. 16:47:48 amy: enormous leverage for denial of service - memory is a constrained resource in comparison to network bandwidth. 16:49:30 eric: I can do a write-up on the discussion around text message, and then responses to that... 16:50:07 phil: can live with putting indicator in WSDL for text message as documentation. 16:50:19 action peaston to write up how to indicate use of text message in WSDL. 16:50:19 Created ACTION-37 - Write up how to indicate use of text message in WSDL. [on Peter Easton - due 2008-10-07]. 16:50:41 Topic: Is WSDL portion of specification normative? 16:50:55 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-soap-jms/2008Sep/0039.html 16:51:45 peaston: His take is that the WSDL section is not normative. 16:53:47 eric: do you care if it is normative? 16:53:59 ... my point is that I interpreted it as optional, but normative. 16:54:22 +1 16:54:53 peaston: making it non-normative would be somewhat redundant - probably shouldn't allow "cafeteria style" approach to WSDL portion of specification. 16:58:06 phil: what is "normative"? 16:58:25 alewis: the informative sections of the specification are always trumped by the "normative" sections. 16:58:48 ... making certain that what you write in the normative sections must be both implementable and unambiguous. 17:00:46 ... what we've got is much more like a "profile". What we've got are four profiles: SOAP, SOAP + WSDL 1.1, SOAP + WSDL 2.0, SOAP + WSDL 1.1 & 2.0 17:01:10 ... if you're claiming conformance - the WSDL 1.1 & 2.0 sections are normative. 17:01:39 -[TIBCO] 17:01:40 -Derek 17:01:40 -alewis 17:01:42 -Phil 17:01:44 -Yves 17:01:50 -Peter_Easton 17:01:50 rrsagent, generate minutes 17:01:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-soap-jms-minutes.html markphillips 17:01:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-soap-jms-minutes.html Yves 17:01:56 -markphillips 17:01:57 WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM has ended 17:01:59 Attendees were +0196270aaaa, markphillips, +1.708.246.aabb, Peter_Easton, Derek, Phil, Yves, +1.919.742.aacc, alewis, [TIBCO] 17:09:07 mphillip has joined #soap-jms 17:09:43 mphillip has joined #soap-jms 19:00:18 Zakim has left #soap-jms