14:56:10 RRSAgent has joined #xproc 14:56:10 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/25-xproc-irc 14:56:15 Zakim, this will be xproc 14:56:15 ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 14:58:30 Vojtech has joined #xproc 14:58:32 Meeting: XML Processing Model WG 14:58:32 Date: 25 Sep 2008 14:58:32 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/09/25-agenda 14:58:32 Meeting: 126 14:58:32 Chair: Norm 14:58:33 Scribe: Norm 14:58:35 ScribeNick: Norm 14:58:37 Regrets: Henry, Mohamed, Michael 14:59:23 XML_PMWG()11:00AM has now started 14:59:31 +Jeroen 14:59:44 zakim, Jeroen is Vojtech 14:59:44 +Vojtech; got it 15:00:13 +Norm 15:00:25 Zakim, who's on the phone? 15:00:33 On the phone I see Vojtech, Norm 15:02:14 alexmilowski has joined #xproc 15:02:16 Ok, thanks for letting me know, Paul 15:02:45 richard has joined #xproc 15:02:58 Uhm. Only if there's one of the open issues you feel a burning need to disagree with the editor over :-) 15:03:01 +Alex_Milowski 15:03:16 AndrewF has joined #xproc 15:03:18 +??P31 15:03:19 zakim, ? is me 15:03:19 +richard; got it 15:03:50 Hmmm. Is anyone talking? 15:04:04 You can't here *me* 15:04:39 + +1.734.352.aaaa 15:04:40 Zakim, who's on the phone? 15:04:40 On the phone I see Vojtech, Norm, Alex_Milowski, richard, +1.734.352.aaaa 15:04:41 s/here/hear/ 15:04:49 zakim, aaaa is Andrew 15:04:49 +Andrew; got it 15:05:02 Present: Vojtech, Norm, Alex, Richard, Andrew 15:05:23 Topic: Accept this agenda? 15:05:23 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/09/25-agenda 15:05:27 Accepted. 15:05:33 Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting? 15:05:33 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/09/11-minutes 15:05:40 Accepted. 15:05:47 Our Last Call period ends tomorrow! 15:06:03 Next meeting: 2 Oct 2008 15:06:25 Vojtech gives regrets; Norm at risk, but Henry will chair in his absence. 15:06:50 Topic: Open actions 15:07:05 Revisit after looking at the issues. 15:07:14 Topic: Review of last call comments 15:07:19 Topic: 016 15:07:39 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/08/lastcall/comments.html 15:08:03 Norm asked us to review the kinds of nodes that can go through select/match patterns on steps 15:08:29 See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Sep/0049.html 15:09:05 Norm's proposed changes to p:replace 15:09:06 Accepted. 15:10:42 Norm's proposed changes to p:wrap 15:10:59 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Sep/0045.html 15:11:36 Richard: I don't have a strong objection, but I'm a bit dubious about having what nodes are ignorable depend on what's on either end. 15:12:10 Vojtech: Can it happen that you have a match that matches an element or a text node. 15:13:03 Richard: What about two text nodes with a comment between them? You might want to group those. 15:13:27 Norm: I see, that would work according to the old rules. 15:13:58 Rejected, stick with the status quo. 15:14:36 Norm: Then Mohamed and I had a short discussion about p:insert, ending with: 15:14:37 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Sep/0053.html 15:15:20 Norm's proposed changes to p:insert 15:16:19 Accepted. 15:16:47 Richard: Just a moment. Suppose the match pattern matches a PI before the document element. 15:17:33 Norm: Then we could just let the natural failure mode handle that. 15:18:57 Richard: If we have an error for producing a document that's not well formed, then we could remove that case--we don't need a special error for it. 15:19:08 ...Then we could use error 25 for just the case that doesn't make any sense. 15:19:36 Norm: I'm happy with that. 15:20:16 Proposal: Adopt Norm's proposal with Richard's change to error 25. 15:20:29 Accepted. 15:20:37 Topic: 020 15:20:59 Vojtech: In p:replace, we say that we can only replace elements. 15:21:34 ...Isn't that like p:insert? 15:21:35 PGrosso has joined #xproc 15:21:41 Norm: Yes, I must have overlooked that one. 15:22:22 +[ArborText] 15:22:59 Norm: So, we should allow match on p:replace to match elements, comments, PIs, and text nodes? 15:24:03 Proposal: Change p:replace as suggested 15:24:22 Accepted. 15:24:26 Now on to issue 20 15:24:56 Norm: I misunderstood issue 020 last time we talked about it. I thought it was about XML encryption/decryption, effectively a dup of the other one. 15:25:09 ...But in fact, it's about text-encrypt, a la gnupg. 15:25:21 ...I dont' think we ahve a use case for that, so I'm inclined to reject it. 15:26:12 Norm: If we did add it, it would be a little complicated because it would need to be a wrapper. 15:27:17 Richard: Henry suggested we should allow the relevant WGs to invent their own libraries. 15:27:29 Alex: Right. We let users create new steps, so they can do it. 15:27:37 ...We'll revisit in 1.1 or 2.0 or something. 15:28:07 Norm: Yes, but we have an encyption/decryption use case in our requirements document, so I'm a little worried. 15:28:33 Richard: Presumably we aren't required to do it if we have a good explanation. Not having the expertise seems like a good reason. 15:29:52 Norm: I'm content to leave the *XML* encryption/decryption case open until after we've been able to speak with the XML Security WG. 15:29:57 ...This issue is about text encryption. 15:30:18 Proposal: Reject this issue. 15:30:46 Accepted, no new steps for text encryption/decryption 15:31:13 Topic: 022 15:31:39 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-comments/2008Sep/0029.html 15:31:43 Norm summarizes 15:32:31 Norm: I've done my best, does anyone have any other or better suggestions? 15:32:50 Norm: Ok, then I'd like to close the issue. 15:33:02 Accepted. 15:33:14 Topic: 024 15:34:26 Norm: I addressed this by changing the definintion in-scope variables in 2.6.2.1. 15:34:44 ACTION: Norm to make the parallel change in 2.6.1.1 15:36:31 Norm summarizes the changes: defining in-scope variables as being the "specified options" and adding a note about unspecified options. 15:36:49 Norm: Does anyone think that that fails to adequately resolve the issue? 15:37:19 Proposal: That resolves the issue. 15:37:27 Accepted. 15:37:50 Topic: 027 15:38:05 Norm: The change here is wrt the type of options, variables, and parameters 15:40:14 Norm: I've changed the introductory sections to say that the values "MUST be a string or xs:untypedAtomic" where they used to say "MUST be a string". 15:40:26 ...I felt that was necessary for consistency with the actual definitions later on. 15:40:31 Norm: Does anyone have reservations about that chagne? 15:40:35 s/chagne/change/ 15:40:55 Proposal: That's fine. 15:41:55 Accepted. 15:42:16 Topic: 030 15:42:29 Norm: Let's go through this one. 15:43:06 Norm: I'm inclined to agree with point 1. 15:44:07 No objections. 15:47:33 Richard: It's ok as long as none of *our* steps have any implementation-defined ones. 15:48:46 Richard: Do they want XProc implementations to be allowed to have extra pre-defined namespaces, or whether they merely want it to be possible for certain steps to have certain pre-defined namespaces. 15:49:18 ACTION: Norm to follow-up with the XQuery/XSL WGs on this point. 15:50:46 Norm: The only other non-editorial comment is about the XQuery step. I'm inclined to accept comments from the XQuery WG about the p:xquery step. 15:51:58 Sounds ok. 15:52:13 Norm: I'll try to address these in the next draft and bring back any issues that I see. 15:52:43 Topic: 031 15:53:15 Norm: I'm inclned to make no change. 15:53:46 Proposal: Stick with the status quo 15:54:03 Accepted. 15:54:22 Topic: Any other business? 15:54:56 Vojtech: Someone asked on xproc-dev what the definition of the XSLT match pattern is; is there a clear definition? We should try to clarify that. 15:57:06 Norm: I'm happy to point a little more explicitly to the respective definitions of Pattern in XSLT 1.0 and 2.0. 15:57:16 ACTION: Norm to make the XSLTMatchPattern reference a little more explciit 15:57:22 s/ciit/cit/ 15:57:35 Adjourned. 15:57:51 -PGrosso 15:57:52 -richard 15:57:55 -Vojtech 15:57:56 -Norm 15:57:59 -Andrew 15:58:02 RRSAgent, set logs world-isible 15:58:04 RRSAgent, set logs world-visible 15:58:08 RRSAgent, draft minutes 15:58:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/25-xproc-minutes.html Norm 15:58:41 PGrosso has left #xproc 16:05:01 disconnecting the lone participant, Alex_Milowski, in XML_PMWG()11:00AM 16:05:05 XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended 16:05:06 Attendees were Vojtech, Norm, Alex_Milowski, richard, +1.734.352.aaaa, Andrew, PGrosso 16:06:01 alexmilowski has joined #xproc 17:35:54 Zakim has left #xproc 18:51:48 MSM has joined #xproc 19:04:25 Norm? 19:04:32 Yes? 19:30:42 Norm, I've fixed www-tag (you could have too, you had subscribed via the normal opt-in route for that public list, but it was easy) 19:31:40 It appears that TAG members were at some point automagically added to ac-forum, and I haven't yet figured out what to do about that 19:34:51 ok, thanks 19:35:20 I don't believe I double-subscribed. I expect that some automated process did it for some reason 19:35:43 ht, wrt ac-forum, I expect that when I became the AC rep, I got automagically subscribed via my mark logic address 19:35:55 I expect I had previously been subscribed at my personal address 19:36:03 via the TAG, I mean 19:38:28 ted has joined #xproc 19:38:31 hi norm 19:38:42 Ted is the Man 19:38:47 Hi ted 19:38:59 you ok with your tag profile being your marklogic one? 19:39:16 i think that will keep you from getting two copies of w3c-ac-forum to your two aliases 19:39:39 I have a marginal perference for using the nwalsh.com address because of the vagaries of how I read my mail, but if that's the easieast answer, then go for it. 19:41:08 This page: http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/participants?org=28578 suggests that things wrt Norm are still. . .less than clean 19:41:24 The two personnae are hopelessly overlapped 19:41:27 :-( 19:42:02 Norm (Mark Logic) is AC, Core, XProc and Chairs 19:42:41 two personnas ok. norm, another alternative would be to filter the w3c-ac lists to /dev/null at nwalsh.com :) 19:42:47 Norman (nwalsh.com) is TAG, Core, XML CG, AWWSW and chairs 19:43:09 Yes, I suppose I could engage in more aggressive filtering 19:43:20 Making nwalsh.com my address on AC Core XProc and chairs is impractical? 19:43:27 Two personnae OK unless they overlap, I would have thought. . . Having both Norm and Norman on XML Core is surely a confusion 19:43:28 I'm not trying to be a PITA, honest ! 19:44:01 it's understandable, those ac lists can get noisy 19:44:14 Ted, I realise you have work to do and this was supposed to be a short interrupt -- cut this short anytime you need to! 19:44:19 And now that I *am* an AC rep, I feel more obligation to read it ;-) 19:46:54 btw you, msm and i should talk catalogs sometime, i saw awhile back tag discussed and okayed us publishing catalog. i'll probably take a pass at some point of our more popular ones 19:52:47 Sure, ted, anytime 19:54:21 I don't see ndw@nwalsh.com on w3c-ac-forum dist, only norman.walsh@marklogic.com 19:54:49 so you really getting copies in both places? i don't doubt you but gerald doesn't see how. you are allowed to post to w3c-ac-forum 19:55:07 admittedly our ac lists are our most complicated so there may be an indirect route 19:57:41 gerald has joined #xproc 19:58:27 I bet I'm subscribed to tag via nwalsh.com, and tag is subscribed to ac-forum 19:58:52 I was just going to check that... that's right 19:59:50 you can opt out of w3c-ac-forum mail in your AC rep role, if you like 19:59:56 accept3 threw me 20:00:38 Ok. Maybe I'll try that. I'm sorry, I didn't expect to drag you all into this, I was just hoping ht could quietly fix it. 20:01:29 oops. wrong window. 20:01:46 Just leaving my remote presence at TAG to join another telcon. 20:14:03 norm, I can opt your marklogic persona out of ac-forum if you like... I'm pretty sure there's a page where you could do it but I don't know where it is (I would do it on http://www.w3.org/Systems/db/contract?contract=733 ) 20:14:28 http://www.w3.org/Systems/db/viewMembership is the one norm can opt out from 20:14:37 Thanks, ted! 20:15:04 aha, thx 20:16:34 I'll just have to remember to re-enable it if I don't run or get re-elected to the TAG next year :-) 20:19:20 bah, humbug. Now I have to find the credentials for my marklogic address. 20:19:26 Is there a form where I can reset those by myself? 20:20:00 hey 20:20:44 yeah http://www.w3.org/Help/Account/MailPassword/ 20:20:54 get your account info mailed back to you 20:22:04 Norm: This URI doesn't resolve, somewhat surprisingly: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/docs/langspec.html#p.declare-step 20:27:11 In fact, starting at 4.6.1 in the ToC, the ToC links don't work ??? 20:28:38 FOrget it, some bug in my browser, aborted loading silently :-( 20:28:57 ht: sure it does 20:29:13 I just clicked on it and it worked fine for me 20:35:50 OK, this is a real bug, I hope: par1, par1b etc. examples use p:pipe step="main", but there is no step called "main" 20:36:14 I've been trying to find the place where we say that name defaults to type on p:pipeline/declare-step, but maybe we took that out? 20:36:39 where are par1, par1b? 20:37:01 Nevermind, found those 20:38:14 yes, we took the name defaulting stuff out 20:38:16 I believe. 20:45:26 So, I have just posted the message I've been meaning to for some time, which is the beginning or a sort of signpost for implementing NVDL in XProc 20:53:53 ted has left #xproc 20:57:30 gerald has left #xproc 21:22:13 RRSAgent, bye 21:22:13 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/25-xproc-actions.rdf : 21:22:13 ACTION: Norm to make the parallel change in 2.6.1.1 [1] 21:22:13 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/25-xproc-irc#T15-34-44 21:22:13 ACTION: Norm to follow-up with the XQuery/XSL WGs on this point. [2] 21:22:13 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/25-xproc-irc#T15-49-18 21:22:13 ACTION: Norm to make the XSLTMatchPattern reference a little more explciit [3] 21:22:13 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/25-xproc-irc#T15-57-16