15:55:16 RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
15:55:16 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/25-html-wg-irc
15:55:23 Zakim, this will be html
15:55:23 ok, ChrisWilson; I see HTML_WG()12:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
15:55:33 agenda?
15:55:35 I think someone request an update on @headers but that should've happened anyway since action-72 is on the "agenda items due next week"
15:55:41 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2008JulSep/ has the suggestions
15:55:43 Title: public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2008: by date (at lists.w3.org)
15:55:53 "
15:55:54 An update on the status of the @headers issue would be good."
15:56:05 and "Maybe we should shortly discuss the issue of "rel" attribute ownership."
15:56:23 Laura has joined #html-wg
15:56:34 (yes, I found them immediately, Anne - I just hadn't been drinking from that firehose yet this morning. :)
15:56:35 HTML_WG()12:00PM has now started
15:56:40 it has?
15:56:43 + +49.251.280.aaaa
15:56:59 + +1.425.646.aabb
15:57:04 Zakim, +49.251.280.aaaa is me
15:57:04 +Julian; got it
15:57:10 Zakim, +1.425.646.aabb is me
15:57:11 +smedero; got it
15:57:14 ChrisWilson, neh, public-html-wg-announce is a quite place :)
15:57:14 +[Microsoft]
15:57:20 zakim, Microsoft is me
15:57:26 +ChrisWilson; got it
15:57:34 quiet, even :/
15:57:55 oh, I thought you meant it was quite a place, in which case I was going to agree. :)
15:58:03 :p
15:58:06 agenda+ review tracker
15:58:21 Zakim, passcode?
15:58:23 the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), anne
15:58:31 agenda+ update on status of @headers (should be covered)
15:58:46 +??P3
15:58:56 Zakim, ??P3 is me
15:58:56 +anne; got it
15:58:58 agenda+ discuss the issue of "rel" attribute ownership (@Julian)
15:59:08 Joshue has joined #html-wg
16:00:21 + +1.218.349.aacc
16:00:29 + +1.408.398.aadd
16:00:55 zakim, code?
16:00:55 the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Joshue
16:01:06 +??P8
16:01:16 zakim, ?P8 is Joshue
16:01:16 sorry, Joshue, I do not recognize a party named '?P8'
16:01:40 Zakim, ??P8 is Joshue
16:01:40 +Joshue; got it
16:01:47 thanks annes
16:01:55 okay, let's get started
16:01:58 Zakim, who's here?
16:01:58 On the phone I see Julian, smedero, ChrisWilson, anne, +1.218.349.aacc, +1.408.398.aadd, Joshue
16:02:00 On IRC I see Joshue, Laura, RRSAgent, Zakim, ChrisWilson, aaronlev, Julian, billmason, tH, smedero, aroben, maddiin, myakura, Sander, marcos, anne, gavin_, ROBOd, tlr, heycam,
16:02:05 ... gsnedders, hsivonen, mjs, sryo, jgraham, Hixie, xover, jmb, timelyx, Yudai, gavin, inimino, pimpbot, Shunsuke, Philip, krijnh, matt, Dashiva, deltab, takkaria, beowulf, drry,
16:02:07 scribe?
16:02:07 ... shepazu, trackbot
16:02:21 Any volunteers?
16:02:39 zakim, passcode?
16:02:39 the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), marcos
16:02:43 scribenik: Joshue
16:02:46 scribenick: Joshue
16:03:15 Zakim, 218.349 is Laura
16:03:15 sorry, ChrisWilson, I do not recognize a party named '218.349'
16:03:21 Zakim, 218.349.aacc is Laura
16:03:21 sorry, ChrisWilson, I do not recognize a party named '218.349.aacc'
16:03:28 Zakim, +1.218.349.aacc is Laura
16:03:28 +Laura; got it
16:03:30 +??P1
16:03:49 zakim, is me
16:03:49 I don't understand 'is me', marcos
16:04:02 zaki, ??P1 is me
16:04:03 Zakim, +1.408.398.aadd is David Singer
16:04:03 I don't understand '+1.408.398.aadd is David Singer', ChrisWilson
16:04:18 zakim, ??P1 is me
16:04:18 +marcos; got it
16:04:25 Zakim, aadd is DaveS
16:04:25 +DaveS; got it
16:04:28 zakim, take up item 1
16:04:28 agendum 1. "review tracker" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
16:04:30 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda
16:04:31 Title: Input for Agenda Planning for the HTML Issue Tracking - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:04:42 does anyone LIKE pimpbot?
16:05:04 hmm. OK, then I won't kick it.
16:05:15 first item - action-38
16:05:30 remand to next week, since Mike isn't here
16:06:00 Zakim, call shepazu
16:06:00 ok, shepazu; the call is being made
16:06:01 +Shepazu
16:06:04 action-66
16:06:12 Next item, ACTION-66
16:06:36 ACTION 66 is pretty much done. http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/66
16:06:36 Sorry, couldn't find user - 66
16:06:37 Title: ACTION-66 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:06:50 Quick review of wiki page...
16:07:16 http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE
16:07:18 Title: HTML/SummaryForTABLE - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
16:07:29 http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE
16:07:33 Title: HTML/SummaryForTABLE - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
16:07:39 Thats fine.
16:08:03 Laura: What is the next step then on Action 66?
16:08:19 CW: Have the editor review it or put it out for the group to vote on.
16:08:45 CW: Any suggestion on which route to go on?
16:08:52 asks Laura.
16:09:15 Laura: The editor has already said what he wanted to do, he wants to leave it out.
16:09:29 asks if we would be in deadlock situation?
16:09:35 CW: No, we put it to a poll.
16:09:48 CW: Look to see if there is consensus.
16:09:49 -Shepazu
16:09:58 Josh: Thats fine with me.
16:10:09 Laura: Is that what you would advise?
16:10:10 +[Oracle]
16:10:36 ROBOd has left #html-wg
16:10:51 CW: We should ask Ian to read the summary. He should review and see if there are any omissions. Poll is best way.
16:10:55 Laura: Ok
16:11:03 -marcos
16:11:37 action: DanC to create poll on issue-32, based on Joshue's page from action-66
16:11:37 Created ACTION-76 - Create poll on issue-32, based on Joshue's page from action-66 [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-10-02].
16:12:02 -anne
16:12:06 CW: I will raise this issue with Dan.
16:12:10 action-75?
16:12:10 ACTION-75 -- Michael(tm) Smith to raise question to group about Yes, leave @profile out, No, re-add it -- and cite Hixie's summary of the discussion -- due 2008-08-28 -- OPEN
16:12:10 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/75
16:12:11 Title: ACTION-75 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:12:28 +Gregory_Rosmaita
16:12:46 CW: I don't think Mike has done anything about this issue.
16:13:33 CW: Moving @profile to next week.
16:14:13 anne has joined #html-wg
16:15:04 CW: It looks like there is a wiki page for ARIA test cases.
16:15:10 Zakim, passcode?
16:15:10 the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), anne
16:15:39 +??P3
16:15:44 Zakim, ??P3 is me
16:15:44 +anne; got it
16:15:45 GJR: There is a wiki at wiki.codetalks.org and the Free ARIA group
16:15:52 CW: Looks like I can close this action item
16:15:56 GJR: Yes.
16:16:04 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/23
16:16:05 CW: Am closing it.
16:16:05 Title: ACTION-23 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:16:10 GJR: Ok
16:16:23 action-54
16:16:25 action-54?
16:16:25 ACTION-54 -- Chris Wilson to ask PF WG to look at drafted text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements -- due 2008-09-26 -- OPEN
16:16:25 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54
16:16:26 Title: ACTION-54 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:16:30 CW: I have two action items that I haven't done yet.
16:16:51 We are waiting PF input on our March 25 and April 15 requests for guidance. We are also waiting the outcome of Al's June 13 "CfP process proposal for a special meeting or meetings for fact-finding on issues related to @alt in HTML5".
16:16:51 http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/HTMLRequestsPFresponse#head-99ed9f857ba8b7e74e3791d3ff86af0279039495
16:16:53 Title: HTML/HTMLRequestsPFresponse - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
16:17:01 agenda?
16:17:04 After that we should be able to finish our action item 72 to draft text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements.
16:17:05 First Draft:
16:17:05 http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/Action54AltAttribute
16:17:05 Second Draft:
16:17:05 http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/Action54AltAttributeSecondDraft
16:17:05 Third Draft:
16:17:08 http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/Action54AltAttributeThirdDraft
16:17:09 Title: HTML/Action54AltAttribute - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
16:17:10 Title: HTML/Action54AltAttributeSecondDraft - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
16:17:12 Title: HTML/Action54AltAttributeThirdDraft - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
16:17:14 CW: PF to look at @alt (that has been done).
16:17:36 CW: The PF has looked at @alt.
16:19:11 GJR: Tomorrow PF has its meeting and we can discuss it there and I will then feedback to the HTML 5 group.
16:19:54 Dave: People are not happy with the curly braces, no breakthough yet.
16:20:06 action: Gregory to come back to with info from PF meeting on alt
16:20:06 Sorry, couldn't find user - Gregory
16:20:16 action: GregoryRosmaita to come back to with info from PF meeting on alt
16:20:16 Sorry, couldn't find user - GregoryRosmaita
16:20:28 Anne: There are no curly braces in the draft at all.
16:20:44 Anne: The draft has changed.
16:20:49 The draft is a moving target
16:20:58 it's a draft :)
16:21:04 GJR: I will post to PF today in advance of discussion.
16:21:17 Draft doesn't need to = erratic moving target, though. :)
16:21:21 (no curly braces with regard to alt, that is)
16:21:41 action-72?
16:21:41 ACTION-72 -- Chris Wilson to rewrite spec to reinstate id/headers AND their functionality by specifically stating that headers are allowed to reference a td. Reword the current definition of the headers attribute so that each of the space separated tokens must have the value of the ID value of a th or td element. -- due 2008-09-26 -- OPEN
16:21:41 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/72
16:21:42 Title: ACTION-72 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:22:23 CW: Lets move to new action, @headers. I have not managed to catch up with it. Am happy to hand it over to someone else. I don't have a strong opinion. It is divisive.
16:22:50 ChrisWilson: I think that would be http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueTableHeaders
16:22:52 Title: HTML/IssueTableHeaders - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
16:22:54 CW: We need the same write up as we had for tables.
16:22:56 +q
16:23:11 Laura: We have a wiki.
16:23:23 CW: I don't know if it covers all perspectives.
16:23:38 was just going to mention wiki
16:23:42 ack Joshue?
16:23:50 the wiki seems heavily biased
16:24:02 e.g. " It is an attempt to circumvent the issue not solve it."
16:24:03 :/
16:24:39 suggests updating the wiki to ensure it does cover all issues.
16:24:51 CW: The wiki seems biased.
16:24:59 Laura: Members can edit it.
16:25:14 Anne: I am not interested in getting involved.
16:25:32 CW: I would like someone to represent the other view
16:25:55 Anne: It seems that James et al are actively involved.
16:26:10 CW: Should I ask James and Henri to distill their view in wiki?
16:26:36 CW: Maybe model a new wiki on the @summary issue.
16:26:44 CW: With the pros and cons.
16:26:54 +q
16:27:07 ack joshue
16:27:12 CW: I would like this not to be biased as much as possible.
16:28:46 Smart headers are a good idea, but they're not going to solve relationships to headers with compound data. From what I can make out, to make it work in the inspector, they've turned off smart headers for cells in the middle of the table, as it's not applying the headers to either the row or the column in the example.
16:29:52 dsinger has joined #html-wg
16:30:03 CW: I will follow this up. Get the issues into the wiki and continue discussion until there is a consensus. If opinion is very entrenched then we will have a poll.
16:30:43 issue-28?
16:30:43 ISSUE-28 -- Content type rules in HTML 5 overlaps with the HTTP specification? -- RAISED
16:30:43 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/28
16:30:44 Title: ISSUE-28 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:31:10 Laura, I thought jgraham said he updated the inspector to fix that bug?
16:31:55 not sure
16:31:59 close issue-28
16:32:11 issue-32?
16:32:11 ISSUE-32 -- how to provide a summary of a table, e.g. for unsighted navigation? -- RAISED
16:32:11 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/32
16:32:12 Title: ISSUE-32 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:32:13 CW: Dans comment is that the design seems stable. We have not seen new info.
16:32:37 anne, not last time I checked it.
16:33:09 Laura, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Sep/0465.html
16:33:10 Title: Re: function and impacts (was: scope and headers reform) from James Graham on 2008-09-25 (public-html@w3.org from September 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
16:33:19 issue-52?
16:33:19 ISSUE-52 -- Resolve XHTML2 WG objections to language in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 -- RAISED
16:33:19 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/52
16:33:20 Title: ISSUE-52 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:33:38 re issue-28: I think we'll have to re-open it when it a client that follows RFC2616 becomes non-compliant
16:33:43 will have to check that
16:33:56 fair enough
16:34:15 CW: Resolving XHMLT 2 WG objections
16:34:23 Anne: Still awaiting reply
16:34:54 MikeSmith responded to XHTML2 WG: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jun/0067.html
16:34:55 Title: Re: changes in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 from Michael(tm) Smith on 2008-06-20 (public-xhtml2@w3.org from June 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
16:34:57 Anne: Mike Smith emailed them I believe.
16:35:16 Anne: There is no link but am sure mail was sent.
16:35:32 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0036.html
16:35:33 Title: Re: changes in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 from Michael(tm) Smith on 2008-07-31 (public-xhtml2@w3.org from July 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
16:35:46 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0037.html
16:35:48 Title: Re: changes in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 from Roland Merrick on 2008-07-31 (public-xhtml2@w3.org from July 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
16:36:15 Anne: There was reply from Stephen Pemberton. Ball in their court.
16:36:17 agenda?
16:36:27 zakim, close item 1
16:36:27 agendum 1, review tracker, closed
16:36:28 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:36:29 2. update on status of @headers (should be covered) [from ChrisWilson]
16:36:35 anne: I can do that
16:36:40 (update the issue)
16:37:12 anne: It looks like it was on the XHTML2 WG's agenda yesterday to discuss that language: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Sep/0017.html
16:37:13 Title: [XHTML] Agenda 2008-09-24 from Roland Merrick on 2008-09-24 (public-xhtml2@w3.org from September 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
16:37:30 zakim, take up item 3
16:37:30 agendum 3. "discuss the issue of "rel" attribute ownership (@Julian)" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
16:37:37 zakim, close item 2
16:37:37 agendum 2, update on status of @headers (should be covered), closed
16:37:38 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:37:39 3. discuss the issue of "rel" attribute ownership (@Julian) [from ChrisWilson]
16:38:48 Julian, are you here?
16:38:49