IRC log of mediaann on 2008-09-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:59:06 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/23-mediaann-irc

12:59:11 [fsasaki]

meeting: MAGW

12:59:14 [fsasaki]

chair: Daniel

12:59:33 [fsasaki]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Sep/0041.html

12:59:36 [wbailer]

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12:59:38 [fsasaki]

rrsagent, make log public

12:59:54 [Zakim]

+Felix

13:00:07 [VeroniqueM]

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13:00:18 [tobiasbuerger]

Zakim, aabb is me

13:00:18 [Zakim]

+tobiasbuerger; got it

13:00:28 [raphael]

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13:01:36 [Zakim]

+[VrijeUni]

13:01:44 [fsasaki]

present+ tobias, davy, raphael(IRC), felix

13:01:58 [fsasaki]

present+ Véronique

13:02:05 [Zakim]

+??P2

13:02:17 [VeroniqueM]

zakim, [VrijeUni] is me

13:02:17 [Zakim]

+VeroniqueM; got it

13:02:33 [Zakim]

+ +43.699.187.6aadd

13:02:35 [fsasaki]

scribe: Felix

13:02:41 [fsasaki]

scribeNick: fsasaki

13:02:55 [wbailer]

?aadd is wbailer

13:03:32 [fsasaki]

present+ Daniel, Werner

13:03:56 [fsasaki]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Sep/att-0041/00-part

13:04:23 [fsasaki]

topic: agenda review

13:04:31 [fsasaki]

Daniel reviews the agenda

13:05:31 [fsasaki]

daniel: no need to go through all open issue, we can go through them briefly and continue discussion via mail

13:05:46 [fsasaki]

topic: Agenda review / approval of previous minutes

13:05:54 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/2008/09/09-mediaann-minutes.html

13:06:30 [fsasaki]

RESOLUTION: minutes approved

13:06:47 [fsasaki]

topic: Selection of scribe for next meeting

13:07:12 [fsasaki]

next scribe will be Hui

13:07:18 [hmiao]

yep. : 0

13:07:22 [hmiao]

: )

13:07:26 [hmiao]

i'll do it from next time

13:07:28 [fsasaki]

present+ Hui

13:07:41 [hmiao]

my pleasure

13:08:29 [fsasaki]

topic: Future telephone conferences and f2f meetings / call time

13:09:30 [fsasaki]

Daniel: we will have an alternating schedule, see upcoming calls at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/admin

13:10:11 [fsasaki]

.. at TPAC, we will have a joint meeting with PLING IG

13:10:28 [fsasaki]

.. in Belgium we will have a joint meeting with media fragment WG

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13:10:38 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/23-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki

13:11:07 [fsasaki]

present+ Erik

13:11:16 [fsasaki]

topic: Call for co-chair

13:11:49 [fsasaki]

no update for now

13:12:04 [fsasaki]

topic: Action items

13:12:11 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/open

13:12:43 [fsasaki]

close ACTION-1

13:12:43 [trackbot]

ACTION-1 Book the bridge for the weekly telecon closed

13:12:44 [fsasaki]

close ACTION-2

13:12:44 [trackbot]

ACTION-2 Give a cvs access to Daniel and to the editors closed

13:12:46 [fsasaki]

close ACTION-3

13:12:46 [trackbot]

ACTION-3 Prepare the editing environment including templates, directories, etc. closed

13:14:37 [fsasaki]

close ACTION-4

13:14:37 [trackbot]

ACTION-4 Pull out requirements of one standard (to be decided which), AI also for Erik closed

13:15:35 [fsasaki]

Veronique had sent information on IPTC, and we will not keep this general action item

13:15:50 [fsasaki]

topic: Editing

13:16:51 [VeroniqueM]

I could also participate in editing, but I have very few experience with this...

13:17:16 [fsasaki]

tobias: I can edit later

13:17:21 [fsasaki]

daniel: we will be a team

13:17:48 [fsasaki]

felix: every editor will edit each deliverable

13:17:55 [hmiao]

i would like to join editing, though i've little experience.

13:18:01 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/2008/01/media-annotations-wg.html

13:18:04 [spark3]

Hui and tobias are volunteers for editing team as of today

13:18:04 [Zakim]

+ +31.20.525.aaee

13:19:10 [fsasaki]

present+ Frank

13:19:20 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/23-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki

13:19:47 [fsasaki]

topic: Open issues

13:21:05 [raphael]

q+

13:21:36 [raphael]

There is an open questionnaire regarding the formats in scope and out of scope, could we keep it open one more week ?

13:21:54 [raphael]

zakim, ack me

13:21:54 [Zakim]

I see no one on the speaker queue

13:22:14 [hmiao]

anyone mension the youtube like video yet ?

13:22:28 [hmiao]

it'll be an important format for our application

13:26:20 [fsasaki]

daniel: propose that we go through the issues until next teleconference via mail, and try to wrap them up during that call, and work on the editors draft just after that

13:26:41 [VeroniqueM]

would it make sense to link the use cases with requirements lists more specifically?

13:26:43 [spark3]

Raphael, yes, we will open for all of open issue until next telecon

13:26:45 [fsasaki]

action: Felix to extend "formats ... scope" for one more week

13:26:45 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-5 - Extend \"formats ... scope\" for one more week [on Felix Sasaki - due 2008-09-30].

13:26:57 [VeroniqueM]

this might hep us getting a list of requirements?

13:28:30 [VeroniqueM]

maybe we can make a short list of the use cases, just by their names?

13:30:23 [fsasaki]

Use case "Services by using an unified media annotation"

13:30:34 [VeroniqueM]

yes

13:30:39 [wbailer]

yes

13:30:55 [davy]

yes

13:30:58 [erik]

yes

13:31:29 [fsasaki]

Use case "Video on IPTV" - should that be merged into another use case?

13:31:46 [VeroniqueM]

yes

13:31:53 [spark3]

yes

13:32:00 [davy]

yes

13:32:02 [wbailer]

yes, merge with services

13:32:02 [erik]

yes

13:32:15 [tobiasbuerger]

yes

13:32:42 [fsasaki]

Requirement "Covering variations across locales"

13:33:26 [spark3]

it's requirements, yes

13:33:40 [wbailer]

yes, it's maybe related to adaptation use case?

13:33:56 [VeroniqueM]

or to interoperability?

13:34:23 [fsasaki]

Use case "Audiovisual archive as a Cultural Heritage institution"

13:34:35 [spark3]

yes

13:35:08 [wbailer]

yes, as mentioned on the list it might be broad and could be more concrete

13:35:28 [wbailer]

agree

13:35:44 [fsasaki]

veronique: well, it was more a general view than a specific usecase, but can be splitted into searching and interoperability

13:36:20 [spark3]

agree

13:36:42 [davy]

yes

13:36:56 [tobiasbuerger]

yes

13:37:07 [fsasaki]

Use case "Metadata to help promoting safe environments"

13:37:07 [erik]

yes

13:37:20 [VeroniqueM]

yes

13:37:32 [fsasaki]

s/Use case "Metadata to help promoting safe environments"//

13:37:35 [fsasaki]

Use case "Metadata to help promoting safe environments"

13:37:36 [VeroniqueM]

can be related to personalisation, to some extent?

13:38:17 [fsasaki]

Felix: should it be a separate use case? Or

13:38:23 [wbailer]

agree to relate it to other uc

13:38:25 [fsasaki]

... be related to something else

13:38:33 [tobiasbuerger]

we could also merge it with the services use case...

13:38:39 [erik]

agree to relate it

13:38:56 [fsasaki]

Use case "Multi media and semantic web technologies"

13:39:14 [tobiasbuerger]

This is too broad I guess and not meant as a use case. Yes - please drop it

13:39:14 [fsasaki]

drop this since it is too broad?

13:39:19 [davy]

agree

13:39:23 [VeroniqueM]

agreed

13:39:25 [wbailer]

agree

13:39:27 [spark3]

agree

13:39:30 [erik]

agree

13:39:36 [raphael]

agree

13:39:51 [fsasaki]

Use case "Photo" - should we take this into account?

13:40:17 [raphael]

Does the charter talk only about videos ?

13:40:22 [VeroniqueM]

has this not be covered by the XG?

13:40:31 [spark3]

isn't it related to Multimedia Annotation XG ?

13:40:36 [VeroniqueM]

Image annotation I mean

13:40:47 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/2008/01/media-annotations-wg.html

13:40:50 [raphael]

No, the role of the XG was not to promote a particular schema or ontology for describing media

13:40:59 [wbailer]

yes, but somehow it'orthogonal: media types vs application like searc etc

13:41:02 [fsasaki]

"This Group is chartered to provide a simple ontology to support cross-community data integration of information related to media objects on the Web, as well as an API to access the information."

13:41:08 [fsasaki]

(from the charter)

13:41:19 [raphael]

... but rather to investigate how SW technologies help to build bridges between exixting formats and standards

13:41:59 [fsasaki]

daniel: our homepage talks about video, audio and images

13:42:00 [spark3]

Video/Audio/Images

13:42:00 [raphael]

... so my conclusion is, there is still a lot to do to make the DC for photos, or videos

13:42:18 [tobiasbuerger]

+1, Raphael. Agree.

13:42:25 [erik]

+1

13:42:51 [fsasaki]

Use case "music" - should we take this into account?

13:43:30 [fsasaki]

daniel: not sure

13:43:37 [raphael]

Same conclusion, the pseudo-formalization of the ID3 tags using the Music Ontology is interesting and might be a good start up

13:43:57 [fsasaki]

raphael: "same conclusion" means: valid use case?

13:44:02 [VeroniqueM]

not sure either, lots of very specific issues would then be taken into account

13:44:27 [VeroniqueM]

ok to Raphael

13:44:29 [wbailer]

but music ontology is quite specific, we should stay on a more generic level

13:44:40 [raphael]

Yes, valid use case, I think ... in the sense that your title property would be likely to be used for a title of a movie or a song

13:44:50 [raphael]

... and a link to the ID3 title is a good thing, etc.

13:45:12 [raphael]

agree for the music ontology, I'm talking about reusing some elements ... and link to some others

13:45:17 [fsasaki]

Felix: sounds like a valid use case but on a very general level

13:45:23 [wbailer]

providing means for linking seems to be a good idea

13:45:42 [fsasaki]

Use case "News"

13:45:48 [erik]

yes

13:45:54 [tobiasbuerger]

yes

13:46:07 [raphael]

I see the outcome of this group as a core schema, with a lot of open windows to standards, with explicit semantics

13:46:13 [VeroniqueM]

that's a very complex and very interesting use case! Vote for yes

13:46:28 [raphael]

News: not in the state that it is described in the XG document .. but yet in the general sense

13:46:41 [raphael]

s/yet/yes

13:46:41 [wbailer]

yes, i see the same thing as for music: avoid getting too specific

13:46:53 [spark3]

yes

13:47:11 [fsasaki]

Use case "Tagging"

13:47:35 [VeroniqueM]

in what sense?

13:47:41 [spark3]

tagging for what ?

13:47:49 [VeroniqueM]

as values for a schema?

13:47:57 [VeroniqueM]

or instead of it?

13:48:03 [tobiasbuerger]

what it was about: "The tagging use case which tackles the problem of interoperability and portability of tagging systems and personal tags."

13:48:05 [raphael]

Goal of the XG was to allow reusing a personomy between various platforms

13:48:20 [raphael]

... example: you use the same flickr tags on delicious

13:48:33 [wbailer]

merge it with interop?

13:48:36 [raphael]

... you own your tags, defined in SKOS, and you can search cross-platform

13:48:55 [VeroniqueM]

in that case, makes sense

13:49:01 [VeroniqueM]

if you define them

13:49:03 [raphael]

... each tags has a global URI and is formally defined

13:50:56 [fsasaki]

Felix: maybe we will not be able to solve that interoperabiltiy problem, only on a very high level of the ontology, and leave the rest to other fora

13:51:08 [fsasaki]

Use case "semantic media analysis"

13:51:19 [fsasaki]

Felix: too general - close that?

13:51:38 [raphael]

agree

13:51:39 [spark3]

agree

13:51:43 [davy]

agree

13:51:47 [tobiasbuerger]

I guess we should take some aspects into accout...

13:51:53 [wbailer]

agree, analysis is done for search, adaptation ,...

13:51:54 [tobiasbuerger]

...like links between modalities

13:52:34 [VeroniqueM]

like semiotic relations between speech and image in a video?

13:52:41 [fsasaki]

tobias: how text can support the analsys of media. This use case is about references between text and parts of the image

13:53:11 [fsasaki]

felix: do you think the relations should be typed and part of the ontology?

13:53:24 [fsasaki]

tobias: yes

13:53:41 [fsasaki]

felix: let's discuss this via mail

13:53:53 [fsasaki]

Use case "algorithm representation"

13:54:06 [wbailer]

drop

13:54:08 [tobiasbuerger]

drop

13:54:09 [fsasaki]

felix: out of scope - drop it?

13:54:13 [VeroniqueM]

yes

13:54:15 [davy]

yes

13:54:18 [raphael]

agree to drop it

13:54:28 [erik]

yes

13:56:09 [fsasaki]

topic: wrap up

13:56:25 [fsasaki]

Daniel: please check http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=Media+Annotations+WG&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailtype1

13:56:27 [fsasaki]

=substring&email1=&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0= for new use cases

13:56:45 [fsasaki]

daniel: and make discussion on the list

13:57:18 [raphael]

q+

13:57:25 [fsasaki]

ack ra

13:57:33 [spark3]

please raphael

13:57:35 [raphael]

is next week telecon changing hour ?

13:57:55 [fsasaki]

yes, see schedule at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/admin

13:57:58 [tobiasbuerger]

q+

13:58:04 [raphael]

ok, it has been approved ?

13:58:04 [fsasaki]

ack to

13:58:04 [spark3]

21 UTC

13:58:14 [raphael]

ok, thanks, I can make it :-)

13:58:53 [fsasaki]

topic: AOB

13:59:07 [fsasaki]

raphael: can I participate in TPAC f2f via phone?

13:59:09 [spark3]

any issues today ?

13:59:16 [fsasaki]

Felix: yes, we have a bridge for both days

13:59:29 [raphael]

s/raphael/tobias

14:00:03 [spark3]

Raphael, is that ok for you ? we will adjourn today call

14:00:09 [raphael]

yes, thanks !

14:00:37 [Zakim]

-Felix

14:00:39 [Zakim]

-Davy

14:00:43 [Zakim]

-Daniel

14:00:45 [Zakim]

-Frank

14:00:47 [fsasaki]

many thanks, spark3!

14:00:49 [Zakim]

-wbailer

14:00:51 [Zakim]

-VeroniqueM

14:00:53 [Zakim]

-tobiasbuerger

14:00:55 [Zakim]

IA_MAWG()9:00AM has ended

14:00:56 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/23-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki

14:00:59 [Zakim]

Attendees were +329331aaaa, +49.861.209.aabb, +329331aacc, Felix, tobiasbuerger, Davy, VeroniqueM, Daniel, +43.699.187.6aadd, wbailer, +31.20.525.aaee, Frank

14:06:58 [davy]

davy has left #mediaann

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14:15:17 [fsasaki]

rrsagent, bye

14:15:17 [RRSAgent]

I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/23-mediaann-actions.rdf :

14:15:17 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Felix to extend "formats ... scope" for one more week [1]

14:15:17 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/23-mediaann-irc#T13-26-45

14:15:20 [fsasaki]

zakim, bye

14:15:20 [Zakim]

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