11:03:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wam
11:03:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-wam-irc
11:04:05 <Zakim> +Josh_Soref
11:04:11 <ArtB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008JulSep/0670.html
11:04:14 <ArtB> Chair: Art
11:04:19 <ArtB> Scribe: Art
11:04:52 <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
11:05:20 <ArtB> Present: Art, Arve, Claudio, Richard_Tibbett(Orange), Josh
11:05:38 <ArtB> Meeting: 18 September 2008
11:05:44 <Zakim> + +44.777.183.aadd
11:05:48 <ArtB> Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference
11:05:55 <ArtB> Date: 18 September 2008
11:06:06 <ArtB> Present+ David_Rogers
11:06:17 <ArtB> zakim, aadd is David_Rogers
11:06:17 <Zakim> +David_Rogers; got it
11:07:07 <marcos> marcos has joined #wam
11:07:58 <ArtB> Topic: Agenda Review
11:08:09 <ArtB> AB: Agenda is: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008JulSep/0670.html
11:08:17 <ArtB> AB: any changes?
11:08:23 <ArtB> [None]
11:08:27 <Benoit> Benoit has joined #wam
11:08:32 <ArtB> Topic: Annoucements
11:08:39 <ArtB> Present+ Benoit
11:08:48 <Zakim> +??P14
11:09:19 <marcos> zakim, ??P14 is me
11:09:19 <Zakim> +Caroline
11:09:19 <Zakim> +marcos; got it
11:09:31 <ArtB> Present+ Marcos
11:10:34 <ArtB> DR: how to we proceed with OMTP's Dependency input?
11:11:05 <ArtB> AB: we can discuss that on the mail list since it is directed to the P&C spec
11:11:19 <ArtB> DR: I'm OK with using the mail list to discuss
11:11:27 <ArtB> RT: OK with me too
11:12:02 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #wam
11:12:07 <ArtB> s/Topic: Annoucements/Topic: OMTP Dependency/
11:12:33 <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
11:12:33 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
11:12:35 <Zakim> +Mike
11:13:33 <ArtB> MC: do you think the reqs are OK in this regard?
11:13:39 <ArtB> DR: yes
11:13:47 <MikeSmith> Zakim, drop Mike
11:13:47 <Zakim> Mike is being disconnected
11:13:49 <Zakim> -Mike
11:13:56 <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
11:13:56 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
11:13:58 <Zakim> +Mike
11:14:09 <ArtB> RT: can I start a discussion about Dependencies now on the mail list?
11:14:22 <ArtB> MC: yes; comments at any time on any spec are always welcome
11:14:32 <Zakim> - +44.797.352.aaaa
11:14:46 <ArtB> Topic: Annoucements
11:14:54 <MikeSmith> Zakim, drop Mike
11:14:54 <Zakim> Mike is being disconnected
11:14:55 <Zakim> -Mike
11:14:57 <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
11:14:57 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
11:14:59 <Zakim> +Mike
11:15:08 <ArtB> RT: he was OMTP's author for the dependency input
11:15:11 <drogersuk> drogersuk has joined #wam
11:15:14 <ArtB> ... he works at Orange
11:15:31 <Zakim> + +44.208.849.aaee
11:15:50 <ArtB> AB: can we get a short update of the BONDI highlights from last week's meeting?
11:16:03 <ArtB> DR: I can try to send something out by the end of the week
11:16:48 <ArtB> ... We need to update the BONDI doc to reflect the latest Widgets work that has been done
11:17:18 <ArtB> ... We will continue to work on the DigSig spec; mostly via Mark Priestly
11:17:40 <ArtB> ... If Marcos needs some help, please ask us
11:17:56 <ArtB> Present+ Mike
11:18:13 <ArtB> Topic: Requirement #1 LC
11:18:18 <drogersuk> OMTP are happy to offer assistance to webapps during the XML digital signature discussions
11:18:42 <ArtB> AB: what remains to be done to get the LC #1 DoC doc up-to-date
11:19:14 <ArtB> MC: I just need to align the document with the latest emails on the list
11:19:26 <ArtB> ... Still need to get some feedback from the MWBP
11:19:41 <ArtB> ... They haven't replied to my deadline with any objections
11:19:56 <ArtB> ... They can of course submit comments for LC #2
11:20:08 <ArtB> ... The DoC doc is 90% complete.
11:20:58 <ArtB> AB: I want to complete the DoC #1 doc before we start the LC #2 review period
11:21:16 <ArtB> Topic: Core API & Events Status
11:21:46 <ArtB> AB: during Turin we agreed to publish this doc in September
11:21:51 <ArtB> ... What's the status?
11:22:22 <ArtB> Arve: what remains to be done
11:22:29 <ArtB> ... the update event
11:23:02 <ArtB> and one of the features
11:23:39 <ArtB> AB: the latest ED is http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-api/
11:24:35 <Zakim> -Josh_Soref
11:24:54 <ArtB> MC: what do you need to define the states?
11:25:08 <ArtB> Arve: I'll need to check the P&C spec
11:25:11 <Zakim> +Josh_Soref
11:25:45 <ArtB> ... I think I have the info I need (from P&C)
11:26:28 <ArtB> AB: what about the Icons issue?
11:26:51 <ArtB> Arve: I'm not comfortable with our current level of support but we can live with this as an open issue for FPWD
11:27:02 <Zakim> -marcos
11:27:28 <ArtB> AB: what about the WindowWindow Interface issue?
11:27:31 <Zakim> +??P14
11:27:36 <ArtB> Arve: I talked to Cameron about this
11:27:42 <marcos> s/WindowWindow/WindowWidget
11:27:52 <timeless> zakim +??P14 is marcos
11:28:11 <ArtB> ... we may need to add some related text to the P&C spec
11:28:40 <ArtB> AB: do we need to make the link before FPWD?
11:28:45 <ArtB> MC: no, I don't think so
11:28:51 <ArtB> Arve: I agree with Marcos
11:29:56 <ArtB> AB: I think it would be good to provide a bit more detail about the Issues identified in the spec
11:30:31 <timeless> zakim, +??P14 is marcos
11:30:31 <Zakim> sorry, timeless, I do not recognize a party named '+??P14'
11:30:45 <ArtB> Arve: what is the process for agreeing on FPWD?
11:30:48 <timeless> zakim, ??P14 is marcos
11:30:48 <Zakim> +marcos; got it
11:31:42 <ArtB> AB: we need to record an agreement to publish 
11:32:00 <ArtB> AB: I propose we publish the API and Event Editor's Draft as a FPWD
11:32:06 <ArtB> AB: any objections?
11:32:10 <ArtB> [None]
11:33:03 <ArtB> CV: I'd like a clarification about message exchange between widgets
11:33:13 <ArtB> ... Is this related to the widget context?
11:33:22 <ArtB> ... Also is this related to HTML5 postMessage?
11:33:52 <ArtB> Arve: cross-widget communication is something that belongs in an Extended API
11:34:24 <ArtB> ... there are some security implications as well
11:34:41 <ArtB> ... UA should have some configuration mechanism about its usage (or not)
11:37:20 <ArtB> RESOLUTION: we will publish the API and Events Editor's Draft as a FPWD
11:38:10 <ArtB> ACTION: Arve notify Art when the API and Events API is ready for Publication
11:38:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-247 - Notify Art when the API and Events API is ready for Publication [on Arve Bersvendsen - due 2008-09-25].
11:38:52 <ArtB> Topic: Status of Automatic Updates spec
11:39:06 <ArtB> AB: would like a brief status
11:39:27 <ArtB> MC: I've had some other higher priority stuff come up
11:39:44 <ArtB> ... hope to have it ready by early next week
11:39:57 <ArtB> AB: are you blocked on anyone?
11:40:05 <ArtB> MC: no
11:40:17 <ArtB> ... Mark Baker's etag concerns could affect it
11:41:05 <ArtB> Topic: Proposal to Rename the Widget specs
11:41:31 <ArtB> AB: what is the motivation and rationale for a change?
11:41:48 <ArtB> MC: there is confusion about WebApps' widgets and "web widgets"
11:42:17 <ArtB> ... the new proposal will force the reader to seek clarity by reading the Abstract and/or Intro
11:42:35 <marcos> Widget Packages and User Agents 1.0:
11:42:36 <ArtB> ... it makes "Package" primary
11:43:04 <ArtB> AB: what do people think?
11:44:10 <ArtB> BS: some of the specs are not generic to the UA
11:44:50 <ArtB> CV: I share Benoit's concern
11:45:06 <Benoit> the user Agent defined  elements are only related to the packaging 
11:45:25 <ArtB> Arve: I'm not too fond of either of these proposals
11:45:26 <claudio> "Widget Packages 1.0 and User Agents conformance criteria: xxxx"
11:45:38 <ArtB> ... I'm afraid there could be confusion with those too
11:46:08 <ArtB> Arve: how about dropping Widgets altogether
11:46:21 <ArtB> BS: we need to keep Widgts
11:46:30 <ArtB> Arve: use Web Apps rather than Widgets
11:46:49 <ArtB> ... I understand the Marketing usefulness of Widgets
11:47:28 <ArtB> ... We are specifiying stuff for Web Apps that we call "widgets"
11:47:28 <Benoit> proposition: "User Agent Widget Pakaging format"
11:47:56 <ArtB> AB: any other opinions?
11:47:57 <marcos> Packages for Client-side Web Applications and User Agent Conforming Criteria
11:48:10 <ArtB> DR: we've had similar discussions in OMTP
11:48:10 <arve> (word bloat)
11:48:22 <ArtB> ... the point of agreement is that we are talking about Web Applications
11:48:27 <marcos> s/conforming/conformance
11:50:14 <ArtB> AB: without some compelling reasons I think we should stay with the names we already use
11:50:26 <ArtB> ... If we make a change, it would be the third name
11:50:43 <ArtB> ... We already have at least one doc in LC and it seems too late to make a change
11:50:53 <ArtB> Arve: I tend to agree with Art
11:51:05 <ArtB> ... We need to make our definition the mainstream name that is used
11:52:18 <ArtB> MC: OK, let's keep it as is
11:52:35 <ArtB> ... We need to keep educating people about our definition
11:52:57 <ArtB> ... I agree we can have the most authoritative definition in the industry
11:53:31 <ArtB> Arve: FWIW, Google already agrees with our definition
11:53:43 <ArtB> ... take a look at wikipedia
11:53:44 <Zakim> -Josh_Soref
11:54:07 <ArtB> AB: I propose we keep the names of our documents as is
11:54:12 <ArtB> AB: any objections?
11:54:15 <ArtB> [None]
11:54:21 <Zakim> +Josh_Soref
11:54:29 <ArtB> RESOLUTION: we will not change the names of our Widgets specs
11:54:49 <ArtB> Topic: Widgets V2/NextGen Feature List
11:55:15 <ArtB> AB: want to get consensus on how we move forward
11:55:59 <Zakim> -Josh_Soref
11:56:09 <ArtB> CV: there is some prelim work that needs to be done first
11:56:19 <ArtB> ... for example, need to get some type of scope around V2
11:56:32 <Zakim> +Josh_Soref
11:56:36 <Zakim> - +44.208.849.aaee
11:56:55 <timeless> the cell network here is giving me network busy and kicking me off
11:57:23 <ArtB> ... We may get lots of additional requirements
11:57:52 <ArtB> ... Regarding a doc or wiki, I think we need to know what we plan to add
11:58:39 <ArtB> ... Regarding V1.0 reqs, we didn't do a lot of Use Case work
11:58:50 <ArtB> ... We should probably do some UC work for v2.0
11:59:04 <ArtB> MC: I agree with Claudio re UCs for v2.0
11:59:27 <ArtB> AB: so you support doing some UC work for v2.0?
11:59:29 <ArtB> MC: yes
12:00:04 <ArtB> AB: any other comments?
12:00:13 <ArtB> AB: I support doing UC work for v2.0
12:00:45 <ArtB> ... My only concern is that it not take away time/resources from our 1.0 work
12:00:59 <ArtB> MC: agree on the resource issue
12:02:30 <ArtB> AB: seems like we should document the general ideas we have now for v2.0
12:02:43 <ArtB> ... but not do any detailed work until next year
12:03:05 <ArtB> ... Don't want to disrupt v1.0 spec work
12:04:30 <ArtB> AB: Claudio, Marcos - can we start using a wiki now?
12:04:51 <ArtB> ... And defer the question about using a document for a few months?
12:04:57 <ArtB> CV: that's OK with me
12:05:02 <ArtB> MC: yes, that's OK
12:05:14 <ArtB> ... and if Claudio wants to take the initial lead that's OK
12:05:52 <ArtB> MS: Claudio should be able to gain access without me getting involved
12:06:40 <ArtB> Topic: etag attr
12:06:52 <ArtB> AB: we don't have time to discuss this today
12:07:03 <ArtB> ... if you have any comments, send them to public-webapps
12:07:10 <ArtB> Topic: AOB
12:07:14 <ArtB> AB: any topics?
12:08:27 <Zakim> -David_Rogers
12:08:28 <Zakim> -marcos
12:08:29 <Zakim> -Josh_Soref
12:08:30 <Zakim> -Caroline
12:08:30 <Zakim> -arve
12:08:32 <Zakim> - +39.011.228.aacc
12:08:33 <MikeSmith> Zakim, drop Mike
12:08:33 <Zakim> Mike is being disconnected
12:08:35 <Zakim> -Mike
12:08:56 <drogersuk> drogersuk has left #wam
12:08:58 <ArtB> AB: regarding TAG joint meeting, Roy Fielding isn't a member of the TAG any more; Stuart Williams will not be in Mandelieu
12:09:17 <ArtB> ... that means it may be difficult to get some f2f time with at TAG member but I will try
12:09:23 <ArtB> AB: anything else?
12:09:26 <ArtB> [No]
12:09:32 <ArtB> AB: Meeting Adjourned
12:09:37 <arve> arve has left #wam
12:09:40 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make log public 
12:10:12 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
12:10:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-wam-minutes.html ArtB
12:11:30 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
12:11:31 <Zakim> IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM has ended
12:11:32 <Zakim> Attendees were +44.797.352.aaaa, Art_Barstow, +47.23.69.aabb, arve, +39.011.228.aacc, Josh_Soref, +44.777.183.aadd, David_Rogers, Caroline, marcos, Mike, +44.208.849.aaee
12:12:10 <ArtB> Regrets: Thomas
12:12:18 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
12:12:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-wam-minutes.html ArtB
12:13:51 <ArtB> zakim, bye
12:13:51 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wam
12:14:06 <ArtB> RRSAgent, bye
12:14:06 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-wam-actions.rdf :
12:14:06 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Arve notify Art when the API and Events API is ready for Publication [1]
12:14:06 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-wam-irc#T11-38-10