10:30:04 RRSAgent has joined #svg 10:30:04 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-irc 10:30:06 RRSAgent, make logs public 10:30:08 Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG 10:30:08 ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM scheduled to start now 10:30:09 Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference 10:30:09 Date: 16 September 2008 10:30:28 GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has now started 10:30:35 +[IPcaller] 10:30:42 zakim, [IPcaller] is me 10:30:42 +aemmons; got it 10:31:49 +Andrew_Sledd 10:31:58 +??P2 10:32:14 Zakim, ??P2 is me 10:32:14 +anthony; got it 10:32:51 ed has joined #svg 10:34:16 +[IPcaller] 10:34:33 Zakim, [IPcaller] is me 10:34:33 +ed; got it 10:37:45 Zakim, call Doug 10:37:45 I am sorry, anthony; I do not know a number for Doug 10:37:48 +Doug_Schepers 10:38:05 Zakim, who's here? 10:38:05 On the phone I see aemmons, Andrew_Sledd, anthony, ed, Doug_Schepers 10:38:06 On IRC I see ed, Zakim, RRSAgent, NH, aemmons, ed_, ed_home, shepazu, anthony, trackbot 10:38:25 scribe: erik 10:38:28 scribeNick: ed 10:38:32 chair: AE 10:38:47 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0304.html 10:39:02 Topic: LC comments 10:39:51 AE: as of right now, there are no comments 10:40:02 ...DS you'll be tracking them as they come in? 10:40:11 DS: yes, I'll put them in the LC tracking tool 10:40:24 Topic: Test fest update 10:40:33 AE: it's up in two weeks time 10:40:42 ...not many responders 10:40:47 ...three people coming 10:40:55 ...want to remind everyone to respond 10:42:50 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/OttawaF2F2008 10:42:50 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/svgOttawaTestFest2008/ 10:43:03 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings 10:43:09 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/svgOttawaTestFest2008/ 10:43:49 AE: still negotiation to be able to go, but I think bitflash are sending someone 10:44:06 ...do we have implementations to test except for the people that are coming? 10:44:21 DS: there's abbra, and I think chris contacted some people too 10:44:44 AE: so, at least one impl to gather results for there 10:44:55 ...and julian from spinetix 10:45:23 ...we want to have good coverage, but we need to have enough people to do the testing 10:45:39 DS: the more people we have the better 10:46:30 AE: bitflash said they could send additional people if we need more impls tested 10:46:48 ...will send out an email about the testfest 10:47:11 ...need to decide exactly where the meeting will be and so on 10:47:53 ACTION: AE to move the ottawa testfest f2f page from the private to the public wiki, and add the location etc 10:47:53 Created ACTION-2192 - Move the ottawa testfest f2f page from the private to the public wiki, and add the location etc [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-09-23]. 10:48:30 Topic: values of requiredExtensions to use XHTML/MathML 10:48:30 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0291.html 10:49:53 AE: so in LC are we allowed to make any changes? 10:50:22 DS: got different answers 10:50:45 ...the general consensus seem to be that it's ok to make changes in LC 10:51:10 ...any change that affects an implementation that makes us reevaluate our test coverage isn't necessarily very good 10:52:02 AE: in this particular case, is this for SVG 1.1? 10:52:10 DS: i think it's for svg in general 10:52:23 AE: CL says adding an example might be a way forward 10:52:34 DS: i'm sceptical, it'd be non-normative 10:52:49 ...we're making a spec for implementors 10:53:14 ...we have an example that has xhtml in it, and it's using some bogus requiredExtension string 10:53:28 ...it's a good idea to change the example, but I don't think it's enough 10:53:39 AE: should be raise it as an issue? 10:53:56 ...and discuss it over the course of our last call, to wait for further feedback 10:54:08 DS: we've already got feedback 10:54:52 ...question is if this is useful or if it harms anything 10:55:07 AE: what does everyone think of it? 10:55:56 ED: I'd be happy adding it 10:56:06 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0299.html 10:57:49 ED: proposed wording looks ok 10:58:02 AE: makes sense to make it generic like that 10:58:16 http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/struct.html#ExternalResourcesRequiredAttribute 10:58:44 ...my only hesitation is to be careful with making changes to the spec 10:59:47 DS: we'd need to make tests for it too 11:00:07 http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/struct.html#RequiredExtensionsAttribute 11:00:24 ...how would you test it? 11:00:36 ...abbra supports XHTML in foreignObject 11:00:51 AE: careful wording in the pass criteria would probably work 11:01:52 RESOLUTION: we'll clarify the wording in requiredextensions, adding the proposed wording from DS for XHTML and MathML 11:02:05 DS: do we want an errata item for 1.1 too? 11:04:07 ACTION: DS to implement the resolution "we'll clarify the wording in requiredextensions, adding the proposed wording from DS for XHTML and MathML" and add a corresponding errata item for SVG 1.1 11:04:07 Created ACTION-2193 - Implement the resolution \"we'll clarify the wording in requiredextensions, adding the proposed wording from DS for XHTML and MathML\" and add a corresponding errata item for SVG 1.1 [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-23]. 11:04:57 RATIONALE: it's a proven interop issue, and the wording is ambigous, and we want interop 11:05:22 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0296.html 11:05:28 Topic: Fixing the Test Suite 11:05:54 AE: CL said he fixed the second part already 11:06:14 ...in the online version (so, for the next version) 11:06:30 ...should we update the released package? 11:06:46 DS: I'd rather wait until we have new content 11:06:53 AE/NH/ED: agree 11:07:09 AE: the first part, is that something that could be changed in the script 11:08:11 AG: file permissions don't get stored with the file do they? 11:08:21 DS: follow up with doh? 11:08:43 ACTION: AG to follow up with DOH on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0296.html regarding the first point 11:08:43 Created ACTION-2194 - Follow up with DOH on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0296.html regarding the first point [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-09-23]. 11:09:16 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0298.html 11:09:16 Topic: Review of struct-discard-208-t.svg test 11:10:08 AG: tests a specific part of discard 11:10:21 ...the original tests didn't quite test it properly 11:10:43 AE: we shouldn't approve any new tests until the f2f 11:11:10 ...but assigning a reviewer is ok of course 11:11:14 ...I'll review it 11:12:08 ACTION: AE to review struct-discard-208-t.svg 11:12:08 Created ACTION-2195 - Review struct-discard-208-t.svg [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-09-23]. 11:12:18 AG: opera passes 11:12:22 NH: ikivo passes 11:15:01 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0305.html 11:15:15 Topic: SVG clip-path, mask and filter for non-SVG content 11:15:49 AG: quick question: are we still going to work on the testsuite after 1.2T goes to rec? 11:15:52 DS: yes 11:16:15 AE: agree, it'll probably be more tests added 11:16:56 DS: to push us over 500 approved tests, would be nice 11:17:23 AE: ok, back to the clip-paths 11:18:11 ED: haven't had time to look at the proposal in detail yet 11:18:30 DS: was trimmed down from what he had before 11:18:50 http://people.mozilla.com/~roc/SVG-CSS-Effects-Draft.html 11:18:51 http://people.mozilla.com/~roc/SVG-CSS-Effects-Draft.html 11:21:14 http://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-view/#elementview-getboundingclientrect 11:21:36 ED: would have to look at the CSS box model to see if that's the most appropriate way of defining exactly what's the size of the svg 11:21:49 ...concerned about borders, margin, padding 11:23:36 DS: any objections to taking this on? 11:23:42 AE: it sounds very powerful 11:24:10 RESOLUTION: we'll take on this work, and liaison with the CSS WG to make sure this is ok 11:24:20 DS: what spec would it go in? 11:24:25 ...filters? compositing? 11:24:38 ...clipping and masking? 11:25:10 AE: do we want to raise an issue for this then? 11:25:20 DS: I'll add to tracker 11:26:00 DS: we could originate it in its own spec, like an svg-css spec 11:26:09 ...might be more work though 11:26:42 AE: still some work to analyze this 11:26:52 DS: would prefer to put it in a spec now 11:27:29 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/ 11:28:34 AE: this is similar to the enableBackground (where wording is different in two modules) 11:29:01 AG: problem is that we'll have to push changes to everywhere 11:29:19 AE: we could have the spec scripts pull changes from a central location 11:29:29 ...we need to solve how this is handled though 11:29:46 AG: yes, that's one way, I don't really mind how we solve this 11:30:44 ...the other option is to make a small spec for things that overlap, and include that in the modules 11:31:02 AE: problem with that is if you need one little bit only 11:31:25 ...and it's own testsuite etc 11:32:16 AE: 1) pull in wording for e.g enable-background from some central place for every module 11:32:35 ... 2) have a small common module 11:32:45 DS: or 3) to have duplicated wording in each module 11:32:56 ...problem is maintainability 11:33:07 ...the second way is the profile way 11:33:51 ...sounds like it would be better if it was specced out in one spec first, and then pulled into core 11:34:10 AE: but do we want everything in core? 11:34:21 ...for the common things 11:34:54 ...because when you look at this it'd be a collection of stuff that has little relation (except in context with the depending specs) 11:36:42 DS: so I think it makes sense to add roc's wording to the filters spec, even the clipping case 11:37:19 AE: so with enable-background, does it need to say anything about filters or clipping or can it be generic? 11:38:09 ED: it's pretty specific in filters, showing the algortihm for the background-image generation 11:38:20 ...not sure how it looks like in clipping/compositing 11:39:19 AG: the way i've used in compositing is different from the filters spec 11:39:30 ...describing attributes etc 11:39:58 ...so if you want to pull in things how do we handle the fact that specs are written in different style? 11:40:08 AE/DS: we should strive to have the same style 11:40:33 AE: we might change the filters spec to be the same style 11:40:58 ...how do we merge things between modules? and how do we make sure style is consistent? 11:42:27 ACTION: ed to work with AG on integrating ROC's proposal into the filters spec 11:42:27 Created ACTION-2196 - Work with AG on integrating ROC's proposal into the filters spec [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-09-23]. 11:43:02 ACTION: AG to work with ED on integrating ROC's proposal into the compositing/clipping&masking spec 11:43:02 Created ACTION-2197 - Work with ED on integrating ROC's proposal into the compositing/clipping&masking spec [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-09-23]. 11:44:15 RESOLUTION: we'll fold the clipping&masking into the compositing module 11:44:29 Rationale: the fewer modules, the easier the integration of features 11:44:51 q+ 11:46:36 AE: so how do we merge common elements and attributes in modules, and the stylistic things 11:47:11 ACTION: AG to fold in the clipping&masking chapter into the compositing module 11:47:11 Created ACTION-2198 - Fold in the clipping&masking chapter into the compositing module [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-09-23]. 11:49:17 DS: do we want to assign editors for the new modules? 11:49:40 AE: maybe we should first decide the priorities? 11:50:25 ...need to keep focused, and we need to have the style ready first 11:50:38 AG: yes, we need to do that first 11:50:51 ...so we don't waste time later on 11:51:59 Zakim, who is noisy 11:51:59 I don't understand 'who is noisy', anthony 11:52:30 DS: so with vector-effects, I'd just pull in the 1.2Full draft into the module 11:52:34 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/template/ 11:52:55 ...we should probably reexamine this 11:53:03 ...if this is the right approach 11:53:09 ...for vector-effects 11:53:22 AG: yeah, there are a lot of problems with it as it stands 11:53:28 DS: ok 11:53:59 AE: so is there anywhere in the wiki we could have for stylistic rules, like what should go in the primer etc 11:54:07 AG: that'd be helpful 11:54:14 AE: maybe we could all work on that 11:54:30 DS: AE do you want to start it up? 11:54:43 AE: I was thinking AG 11:55:32 AG: one example is in print, all requirements are highlighted in red boxes 11:55:57 ED: i think i have an action to add that to filters too, but haven't had time to do it yet 11:56:33 AE: it makes sense to have that on the wiki 11:57:01 ACTION: AG to add a wikipage for new modules, describing common styling etc 11:57:01 Created ACTION-2199 - Add a wikipage for new modules, describing common styling etc [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-09-23]. 11:57:39 Topic: priorities 11:58:46 DS: my wishlist: vector-effects (cool, but will take awhile before implemented), the features that bitflash put in (the z-index) and the 2.5D stuff 11:59:47 AE: yes, we want to have the 2.5D soon to see what people have done so far 12:00:06 ...and also from a market POV 12:01:21 DS: SCXML 12:06:41 -Andrew_Sledd 12:06:42 -anthony 12:06:42 -ed 12:06:43 -Doug_Schepers 12:06:44 -aemmons 12:06:44 GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has ended 12:06:45 Attendees were aemmons, Andrew_Sledd, anthony, ed, Doug_Schepers 12:07:08 Zakim, bye 12:07:08 Zakim has left #svg 12:07:17 RRSAgent, make minutes 12:07:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html ed 12:15:38 NH has joined #SVG 12:51:18 ChrisL has joined #svg