IRC log of rif-prd on 2008-09-16
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:59:42 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #rif-prd
- 16:59:42 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-rif-prd-irc
- 16:59:53 [csma]
- Meeting: RIF-PRD telecon Sept 16
- 17:00:13 [csma]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Sep/0110.html
- 17:00:51 [Zakim]
- SW_RIF(PRD)1:00PM has now started
- 17:00:56 [Zakim]
- +csma
- 17:00:57 [Zakim]
- +[NRCC]
- 17:01:00 [Zakim]
- -[NRCC]
- 17:01:49 [Zakim]
- +[NRCC]
- 17:02:26 [GaryHallmark]
- GaryHallmark has joined #rif-prd
- 17:02:50 [csma]
- "/invite zakim #channel-name
- 17:03:12 [Zakim]
- + +1.503.533.aaaa - is perhaps GaryHallmark?
- 17:03:32 [Hassan]
- Hassan has joined #rif-prd
- 17:03:34 [Harold]
- zakim, [NRCC] is me
- 17:03:34 [Zakim]
- +Harold; got it
- 17:03:39 [GaryHallmark]
- zakim, aaaa is me
- 17:03:39 [Zakim]
- sorry, GaryHallmark, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
- 17:03:40 [csma]
- "zakim, room for 5?
- 17:04:00 [GaryHallmark]
- zakim, +1.503.533.aaaa is me
- 17:04:00 [Zakim]
- sorry, GaryHallmark, I do not recognize a party named '+1.503.533.aaaa'
- 17:04:06 [Zakim]
- +Hassan_Ait-Kaci
- 17:04:24 [Hassan]
- zakim, mute me
- 17:04:24 [Zakim]
- Hassan_Ait-Kaci should now be muted
- 17:05:13 [csma]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 17:05:13 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see csma, Harold, GaryHallmark?, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted)
- 17:06:45 [Hassan]
- zakim, unmute me
- 17:06:45 [Zakim]
- Hassan_Ait-Kaci should no longer be muted
- 17:09:22 [Hassan]
- me zakim, unmute me
- 17:09:30 [Hassan]
- yes
- 17:15:30 [GaryHallmark]
- resolved: csma chairs, we take turns scribing
- 17:15:36 [GaryHallmark]
- I'll scribe now
- 17:15:57 [GaryHallmark]
- scribe: GaryHallmark
- 17:16:17 [GaryHallmark]
- topic: Architectural Principles
- 17:16:42 [Hassan]
- q+
- 17:16:52 [csma]
- ack hassan
- 17:17:16 [GaryHallmark]
- hassan: need a brainstorming kickoff to this taskforce
- 17:17:51 [GaryHallmark]
- ... e.g. why do we need (to start with) an xml schema?
- 17:18:34 [GaryHallmark]
- csma: attendance is important!
- 17:19:05 [GaryHallmark]
- ... taskforce job is to make proposals, not to make decisions
- 17:20:27 [GaryHallmark]
- csma: today we need to organize work for WD2 to have freeze before F2F
- 17:22:05 [GaryHallmark]
- topic: WD2
- 17:22:40 [Hassan]
- q+
- 17:23:14 [csma]
- ack hassan
- 17:23:33 [GaryHallmark]
- finish/polish the model-theory of conditions
- 17:23:55 [GaryHallmark]
- hassan: semantics is hard to read
- 17:24:11 [GaryHallmark]
- ... (in latest wiki version)
- 17:24:36 [csma]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/PRD
- 17:25:15 [GaryHallmark]
- ... unclear what the semantic structures are there for (confusing mix of denotational and operational)
- 17:26:43 [GaryHallmark]
- csma: 1st WD was all operational, but did not define "matching theory" -- no links to DTB
- 17:29:52 [GaryHallmark]
- now, we want a model-theory for the conditions but not for the rules
- 17:32:19 [GaryHallmark]
- hassan: there will be extra-BLD condition constructs, e.g. aggregate, that must be added
- 17:35:06 [GaryHallmark]
- should ask Michael how to do aggregates in FLD
- 17:36:17 [Harold]
- http://axel.deri.ie/~axepol/publications/poll-etal-2007.pdf
- 17:36:31 [GaryHallmark]
- harold: aggregates could be added to DTB
- 17:37:29 [Harold]
- I'd like to have a version of aggregates both in PRD and BLD, perhaps via DTB.
- 17:38:54 [Harold]
- Aggregate can be semantically treated similarly to external builtins.
- 17:39:12 [GaryHallmark]
- I believe that PRD and BLD conditions (not rules) agree on NAF
- 17:41:21 [GaryHallmark]
- csma: will PRD and SWC fit?
- 17:41:41 [Harold]
- I agree perhaps PRD could be considered a superset of BLD (with only Asserts in conclusions).
- 17:42:19 [Harold]
- So RIF-SWC would agree on the BLD subset of PRD.
- 17:42:52 [GaryHallmark]
- but BLD is not a subset of PRD - we are still searching for a non-empty CORE
- 17:43:46 [Harold]
- Depends on how big PRD will ultimately be.
- 17:45:58 [GaryHallmark]
- does current spec have model theory for NAF?
- 17:47:56 [Harold]
- (Re aggregates, also see "Aggregate functions in DLV" http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.10.4418 and later DLV work).
- 17:49:45 [GaryHallmark]
- csma: a bind or let construct makes it easier to specify no-repeat
- 17:51:28 [Harold]
- "bind", "let", "where" are equivalent variable-scoping constructs similar to quantifiers.
- 17:52:08 [Harold]
- They may also benefit an extension of BLD.
- 17:54:29 [Hassan]
- On aggregates and comprehions: http://lambda.uta.edu/monoid.ps.gz
- 17:54:59 [Hassan]
- s/comprehions/comprehensions/
- 17:56:37 [GaryHallmark]
- I will add "assert new" and "object delete" to PRD
- 17:56:51 [csma]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 17:57:09 [csma]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:57:09 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-rif-prd-minutes.html csma
- 17:57:29 [GaryHallmark]
- add "assert new" and "object delete" to PRD
- 17:57:50 [GaryHallmark]
- add "assert new" and "object delete" to PRD
- 17:58:19 [Zakim]
- -Hassan_Ait-Kaci
- 17:58:21 [Zakim]
- -csma
- 17:58:23 [Zakim]
- -Harold
- 18:05:01 [Zakim]
- disconnecting the lone participant, GaryHallmark?, in SW_RIF(PRD)1:00PM
- 18:05:04 [Zakim]
- SW_RIF(PRD)1:00PM has ended
- 18:05:05 [Zakim]
- Attendees were csma, +1.503.533.aaaa, Harold, Hassan_Ait-Kaci
- 19:49:42 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #rif-prd