16:59:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif-prd
16:59:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-rif-prd-irc
16:59:53 <csma> Meeting: RIF-PRD telecon Sept 16
17:00:13 <csma> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Sep/0110.html
17:00:51 <Zakim> SW_RIF(PRD)1:00PM has now started
17:00:56 <Zakim> +csma
17:00:57 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
17:01:00 <Zakim> -[NRCC]
17:01:49 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
17:02:26 <GaryHallmark> GaryHallmark has joined #rif-prd
17:02:50 <csma> "/invite zakim #channel-name
17:03:12 <Zakim> + +1.503.533.aaaa - is perhaps GaryHallmark?
17:03:32 <Hassan> Hassan has joined #rif-prd
17:03:34 <Harold> zakim, [NRCC] is me
17:03:34 <Zakim> +Harold; got it
17:03:39 <GaryHallmark> zakim, aaaa is me
17:03:39 <Zakim> sorry, GaryHallmark, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
17:03:40 <csma> "zakim, room for 5?
17:04:00 <GaryHallmark> zakim, +1.503.533.aaaa is me
17:04:00 <Zakim> sorry, GaryHallmark, I do not recognize a party named '+1.503.533.aaaa'
17:04:06 <Zakim> +Hassan_Ait-Kaci
17:04:24 <Hassan> zakim, mute me
17:04:24 <Zakim> Hassan_Ait-Kaci should now be muted
17:05:13 <csma> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:05:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see csma, Harold, GaryHallmark?, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted)
17:06:45 <Hassan> zakim, unmute me
17:06:45 <Zakim> Hassan_Ait-Kaci should no longer be muted
17:09:22 <Hassan> me zakim, unmute me
17:09:30 <Hassan> yes
17:15:30 <GaryHallmark> resolved: csma chairs, we take turns scribing
17:15:36 <GaryHallmark> I'll scribe now
17:15:57 <GaryHallmark> scribe: GaryHallmark
17:16:17 <GaryHallmark> topic: Architectural Principles
17:16:42 <Hassan> q+
17:16:52 <csma> ack hassan
17:17:16 <GaryHallmark> hassan: need a brainstorming kickoff to this taskforce
17:17:51 <GaryHallmark> ... e.g. why do we need (to start with) an xml schema?
17:18:34 <GaryHallmark> csma: attendance is important!
17:19:05 <GaryHallmark> ... taskforce job is to make proposals, not to make decisions
17:20:27 <GaryHallmark> csma: today we need to organize work for WD2 to have freeze before F2F
17:22:05 <GaryHallmark> topic: WD2
17:22:40 <Hassan> q+
17:23:14 <csma> ack hassan
17:23:33 <GaryHallmark> finish/polish the model-theory of conditions
17:23:55 <GaryHallmark> hassan: semantics is hard to read
17:24:11 <GaryHallmark> ... (in latest wiki version)
17:24:36 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/PRD
17:25:15 <GaryHallmark> ... unclear what the semantic structures are there for (confusing mix of denotational and operational)
17:26:43 <GaryHallmark> csma: 1st WD was all operational, but did not define "matching theory" -- no links to DTB
17:29:52 <GaryHallmark> now, we want a model-theory for the conditions but not for the rules
17:32:19 <GaryHallmark> hassan: there will be extra-BLD condition constructs, e.g. aggregate, that must be added
17:35:06 <GaryHallmark> should ask Michael how to do aggregates in FLD
17:36:17 <Harold> http://axel.deri.ie/~axepol/publications/poll-etal-2007.pdf
17:36:31 <GaryHallmark> harold: aggregates could be added to DTB
17:37:29 <Harold> I'd like to have a version of aggregates both in PRD and BLD, perhaps via DTB.
17:38:54 <Harold> Aggregate can be semantically treated similarly to external builtins.
17:39:12 <GaryHallmark> I believe that PRD and BLD conditions (not rules) agree on NAF
17:41:21 <GaryHallmark> csma: will PRD and SWC fit?
17:41:41 <Harold> I agree perhaps PRD could be considered a superset of BLD (with only Asserts in conclusions).
17:42:19 <Harold> So RIF-SWC would agree on the BLD subset of PRD.
17:42:52 <GaryHallmark> but BLD is not a subset of PRD - we are still searching for a non-empty CORE
17:43:46 <Harold> Depends on how big PRD will ultimately be.
17:45:58 <GaryHallmark> does current spec have model theory for NAF?
17:47:56 <Harold> (Re aggregates, also see "Aggregate functions in DLV" http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.10.4418 and later DLV work).
17:49:45 <GaryHallmark> csma: a bind or let construct makes it easier to specify no-repeat
17:51:28 <Harold> "bind", "let", "where" are equivalent variable-scoping constructs similar to quantifiers.
17:52:08 <Harold> They may also benefit an extension of BLD.
17:54:29 <Hassan> On aggregates and comprehions: http://lambda.uta.edu/monoid.ps.gz 
17:54:59 <Hassan> s/comprehions/comprehensions/
17:56:37 <GaryHallmark> I will add "assert new" and "object delete" to PRD
17:56:51 <csma> rrsagent, make log public
17:57:09 <csma> rrsagent, make minutes
17:57:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-rif-prd-minutes.html csma
17:57:29 <GaryHallmark> add "assert new" and "object delete" to PRD
17:57:50 <GaryHallmark> add "assert new" and "object delete" to PRD
17:58:19 <Zakim> -Hassan_Ait-Kaci
17:58:21 <Zakim> -csma
17:58:23 <Zakim> -Harold
18:05:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, GaryHallmark?, in SW_RIF(PRD)1:00PM
18:05:04 <Zakim> SW_RIF(PRD)1:00PM has ended
18:05:05 <Zakim> Attendees were csma, +1.503.533.aaaa, Harold, Hassan_Ait-Kaci
19:49:42 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rif-prd