IRC log of rif-prd on 2008-09-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:59:42 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif-prd
16:59:42 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-rif-prd-irc
16:59:53 [csma]
Meeting: RIF-PRD telecon Sept 16
17:00:13 [csma]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Sep/0110.html
17:00:51 [Zakim]
SW_RIF(PRD)1:00PM has now started
17:00:56 [Zakim]
+csma
17:00:57 [Zakim]
+[NRCC]
17:01:00 [Zakim]
-[NRCC]
17:01:49 [Zakim]
+[NRCC]
17:02:26 [GaryHallmark]
GaryHallmark has joined #rif-prd
17:02:50 [csma]
"/invite zakim #channel-name
17:03:12 [Zakim]
+ +1.503.533.aaaa - is perhaps GaryHallmark?
17:03:32 [Hassan]
Hassan has joined #rif-prd
17:03:34 [Harold]
zakim, [NRCC] is me
17:03:34 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
17:03:39 [GaryHallmark]
zakim, aaaa is me
17:03:39 [Zakim]
sorry, GaryHallmark, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
17:03:40 [csma]
"zakim, room for 5?
17:04:00 [GaryHallmark]
zakim, +1.503.533.aaaa is me
17:04:00 [Zakim]
sorry, GaryHallmark, I do not recognize a party named '+1.503.533.aaaa'
17:04:06 [Zakim]
+Hassan_Ait-Kaci
17:04:24 [Hassan]
zakim, mute me
17:04:24 [Zakim]
Hassan_Ait-Kaci should now be muted
17:05:13 [csma]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:05:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma, Harold, GaryHallmark?, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted)
17:06:45 [Hassan]
zakim, unmute me
17:06:45 [Zakim]
Hassan_Ait-Kaci should no longer be muted
17:09:22 [Hassan]
me zakim, unmute me
17:09:30 [Hassan]
yes
17:15:30 [GaryHallmark]
resolved: csma chairs, we take turns scribing
17:15:36 [GaryHallmark]
I'll scribe now
17:15:57 [GaryHallmark]
scribe: GaryHallmark
17:16:17 [GaryHallmark]
topic: Architectural Principles
17:16:42 [Hassan]
q+
17:16:52 [csma]
ack hassan
17:17:16 [GaryHallmark]
hassan: need a brainstorming kickoff to this taskforce
17:17:51 [GaryHallmark]
... e.g. why do we need (to start with) an xml schema?
17:18:34 [GaryHallmark]
csma: attendance is important!
17:19:05 [GaryHallmark]
... taskforce job is to make proposals, not to make decisions
17:20:27 [GaryHallmark]
csma: today we need to organize work for WD2 to have freeze before F2F
17:22:05 [GaryHallmark]
topic: WD2
17:22:40 [Hassan]
q+
17:23:14 [csma]
ack hassan
17:23:33 [GaryHallmark]
finish/polish the model-theory of conditions
17:23:55 [GaryHallmark]
hassan: semantics is hard to read
17:24:11 [GaryHallmark]
... (in latest wiki version)
17:24:36 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/PRD
17:25:15 [GaryHallmark]
... unclear what the semantic structures are there for (confusing mix of denotational and operational)
17:26:43 [GaryHallmark]
csma: 1st WD was all operational, but did not define "matching theory" -- no links to DTB
17:29:52 [GaryHallmark]
now, we want a model-theory for the conditions but not for the rules
17:32:19 [GaryHallmark]
hassan: there will be extra-BLD condition constructs, e.g. aggregate, that must be added
17:35:06 [GaryHallmark]
should ask Michael how to do aggregates in FLD
17:36:17 [Harold]
http://axel.deri.ie/~axepol/publications/poll-etal-2007.pdf
17:36:31 [GaryHallmark]
harold: aggregates could be added to DTB
17:37:29 [Harold]
I'd like to have a version of aggregates both in PRD and BLD, perhaps via DTB.
17:38:54 [Harold]
Aggregate can be semantically treated similarly to external builtins.
17:39:12 [GaryHallmark]
I believe that PRD and BLD conditions (not rules) agree on NAF
17:41:21 [GaryHallmark]
csma: will PRD and SWC fit?
17:41:41 [Harold]
I agree perhaps PRD could be considered a superset of BLD (with only Asserts in conclusions).
17:42:19 [Harold]
So RIF-SWC would agree on the BLD subset of PRD.
17:42:52 [GaryHallmark]
but BLD is not a subset of PRD - we are still searching for a non-empty CORE
17:43:46 [Harold]
Depends on how big PRD will ultimately be.
17:45:58 [GaryHallmark]
does current spec have model theory for NAF?
17:47:56 [Harold]
(Re aggregates, also see "Aggregate functions in DLV" http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.10.4418 and later DLV work).
17:49:45 [GaryHallmark]
csma: a bind or let construct makes it easier to specify no-repeat
17:51:28 [Harold]
"bind", "let", "where" are equivalent variable-scoping constructs similar to quantifiers.
17:52:08 [Harold]
They may also benefit an extension of BLD.
17:54:29 [Hassan]
On aggregates and comprehions: http://lambda.uta.edu/monoid.ps.gz
17:54:59 [Hassan]
s/comprehions/comprehensions/
17:56:37 [GaryHallmark]
I will add "assert new" and "object delete" to PRD
17:56:51 [csma]
rrsagent, make log public
17:57:09 [csma]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:57:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-rif-prd-minutes.html csma
17:57:29 [GaryHallmark]
add "assert new" and "object delete" to PRD
17:57:50 [GaryHallmark]
add "assert new" and "object delete" to PRD
17:58:19 [Zakim]
-Hassan_Ait-Kaci
17:58:21 [Zakim]
-csma
17:58:23 [Zakim]
-Harold
18:05:01 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, GaryHallmark?, in SW_RIF(PRD)1:00PM
18:05:04 [Zakim]
SW_RIF(PRD)1:00PM has ended
18:05:05 [Zakim]
Attendees were csma, +1.503.533.aaaa, Harold, Hassan_Ait-Kaci
19:49:42 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rif-prd