IRC log of svgig on 2008-09-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:59:08 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #svgig

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-svgig-irc

14:59:10 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

14:59:12 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be SVGIG

14:59:13 [trackbot]

Meeting: SVG Interest Group Teleconference

14:59:13 [trackbot]

Date: 11 September 2008

14:59:13 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGIG()11:00AM already started

14:59:14 [Zakim]

+ +1.847.797.aabb

14:59:23 [shepazu]

Zakim, call shepazu

14:59:23 [Zakim]

ok, shepazu; the call is being made

14:59:23 [Zakim]

+Shepazu

15:01:37 [Bruce_]

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+ +1.519.968.aacc

15:02:20 [DavePorter]

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+ +1.720.855.aadd

15:02:29 [Zakim]

+Andreas_Neumann

15:02:41 [aneumann]

aneumann has joined #svgig

15:03:52 [shepazu]

Zakim, +1.519.968.aacc is Bruce_

15:03:52 [Zakim]

+Bruce_; got it

15:04:10 [shepazu]

Zakim, +1.720.855.aadd DavePorter

15:04:10 [Zakim]

I don't understand '+1.720.855.aadd DavePorter', shepazu

15:05:22 [shepazu]

Zakim, +1.720.855.aadd is Bruce_

15:05:22 [Zakim]

+Bruce_; got it

15:05:28 [JeffSchiller]

Zakim, +1.847.797.aabb is JeffSchiller

15:05:28 [Zakim]

+JeffSchiller; got it

15:05:57 [shepazu]

Zakim, +1.519.968.aacc is Rob_Russell

15:05:57 [Zakim]

sorry, shepazu, I do not recognize a party named '+1.519.968.aacc'

15:06:40 [Donald_Doherty]

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+Don_Doherty

15:07:46 [shepazu]

scribe: Doug

15:09:14 [shepazu]

scribe: Dave Porter

15:09:23 [JeffSchiller]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-ig/2008JulSep/0053.html

15:09:25 [shepazu]

scribeNick: DavePorter

15:09:33 [DavePorter]

Agenda

15:09:38 [shepazu]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-ig/2008JulSep/0053.html

15:09:58 [DavePorter]

Topic: Process

15:09:58 [shepazu]

Topic: Process

15:10:32 [DavePorter]

Jeff talking about process, new members Andreas,

15:10:55 [DavePorter]

Andreas: bio: Interactive Mapping GIS

15:11:04 [DavePorter]

First attended Open 2002 in Zurich

15:11:23 [DavePorter]

Telecon times didn't fit, so didn't participate immediately,

15:11:38 [shepazu]

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/track/

15:11:53 [shepazu]

Topic: Tracker

15:12:12 [shepazu]

http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/

15:12:25 [DavePorter]

Each w3 group can set up their instance.

15:12:52 [DavePorter]

Only tracks stuff for us

15:13:00 [DavePorter]

Web interface plus functionality for telecons.

15:13:12 [DavePorter]

Doug is demonstrating how to set up an action.

15:13:15 [shepazu]

Action: shepazu to explain Tracker

15:13:15 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1 - Explain Tracker [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].

15:13:59 [DavePorter]

Tracker probably needs to be synched with IRC nicknames, but it already knows about many of us

15:14:04 [shepazu]

Action: schiller to get the group moving

15:14:04 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2 - Get the group moving [on Jeff Schiller - due 2008-09-18].

15:14:42 [DavePorter]

Unambiguous string for name, plus assignments like "Action:" are recognized

15:15:10 [shepazu]

Issue: resolve accessibility issues

15:15:10 [trackbot]

Created ISSUE-1 - Resolve accessibility issues ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/track/issues/1/edit .

15:15:29 [shepazu]

http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc

15:16:25 [DavePorter]

Person can go to web interface, look at "their" assigns.

15:17:02 [DavePorter]

Haven't used it, but we'll see how we can use it, encourage members to view it.

15:17:11 [DavePorter]

Can use it to generate agendas

15:17:31 [shepazu]

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/track/actions/1/edit

15:18:05 [DavePorter]

In another group, we just go thru the actions to status them, and perhaps our products can be tracked this way.

15:18:38 [DavePorter]

E.g. diffusion curves, 2.5D

15:19:00 [DavePorter]

Issues vs. Actions

15:19:07 [DavePorter]

Issues are ongoing and may result in several different actions

15:19:28 [DavePorter]

Actions are things to do, having a clear closure\

15:19:52 [DavePorter]

Topic: New members

15:20:03 [DavePorter]

Is this still the right time for our conference call.

15:20:23 [DavePorter]

Andreas recommends a somewhat later time

15:20:33 [DavePorter]

Others are OK with the status quo

15:20:58 [Zakim]

+??P27

15:21:00 [DavePorter]

Doug will try to use a tool to discern a better time, has polling

15:21:07 [ed_work]

Zakim, ??P27 is me

15:21:07 [Zakim]

+ed_work; got it

15:21:16 [DavePorter]

Action: Doug to set up poll to set up telecon

15:21:17 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-3 - Set up poll to set up telecon [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].

15:21:43 [DavePorter]

Eric Dahlstrom joined

15:21:55 [DavePorter]

Eric will listen in, and multitask in the background

15:22:15 [DavePorter]

Which mobile version of Opera supports SVG?

15:22:24 [DavePorter]

9.5 does it as well

15:22:39 [DavePorter]

Previous Opera 8 had a plug-in based

15:23:16 [Donald_Doherty]

trackbot, status

15:23:28 [DavePorter]

Getting info out about what the real state of SVG is an important value of this IG.

15:23:55 [DavePorter]

E.g. editing the wiki about Opera, if someone has experience can do this, please do.

15:24:33 [DavePorter]

Doug: interesting to see how well and quickly the Iphone performs on SMIL, Javascript

15:24:56 [aneumann]

AN: currently the iPhone doesn't support SMIL

15:24:57 [ed_work]

opera mini 4 supports svg with limited interactivity (see http://my.opera.com/operamini/blog/show.dml/2163812)

15:25:09 [shepazu]

http://www.schepers.cc/svg/iphone/

15:25:15 [shepazu]

http://www.schepers.cc/svg/iphone/iScript.svg

15:25:48 [DavePorter]

Mouseover on the buttons changegs the icon color

15:26:00 [DavePorter]

Topic: SVG Open, Doug to introduce

15:26:15 [DavePorter]

Not that well attended, but was very productive &positive on the whole

15:26:23 [DavePorter]

Around 120 attendees

15:26:43 [DavePorter]

SVG IG including John Cruze who drives Inkscape

15:26:56 [stelt]

Cruz

15:26:58 [DavePorter]

about 20 went out for dinner, talked for 1.5 hours about SVG-IG

15:27:01 [aneumann]

= Jon Cruz

15:27:11 [DavePorter]

Much was about community site

15:27:32 [DavePorter]

Andreas: talking about 2009

15:27:41 [DavePorter]

Location will be CA USA

15:27:47 [JeffSchiller]

MountainView, CA

15:27:55 [DavePorter]

Not definite on location yet

15:28:22 [JeffSchiller]

Jon Ferraiolo

15:28:44 [JeffSchiller]

heading up OpenAjax Alliance, was author of earlier version of SVG spec, previous employee of Adobe

15:29:16 [DavePorter]

Mailing list is at yahoo group

15:29:29 [aneumann]

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/svgopen2009/

15:29:53 [DavePorter]

Send E-mail to Andreas if you'd like to be included int he SVG Open mailing list

15:30:20 [DavePorter]

Doug: suggest we should not be directly involved in facilitating the conference

15:30:35 [DavePorter]

A number of things are not appropriate for a public channel

15:31:55 [DavePorter]

Could we engage O'Reilly as a conference sponsor?

15:32:30 [DavePorter]

Doug thinks that could change the tone and attendees perhaps to a different focus

15:32:58 [DavePorter]

This would "send a message" that SVG is becoming more important

15:33:18 [DavePorter]

Tim Berners Lee, chastising Microsoft about non-support for SVG

15:33:27 [DavePorter]

It's on the wires, picked up by AP

15:34:11 [DavePorter]

Netscape, Mozilla, Opera, Nokia, SAP

15:34:23 [JeffSchiller]

no attendees from Microsoft, Google, Yahoo

15:34:34 [JeffSchiller]

(for 2008)

15:34:36 [DavePorter]

Visio team attended in 2002

15:34:52 [DavePorter]

Apple has never attended

15:35:50 [DavePorter]

Jonathan Watt, O'Callahan from Mozilla

15:36:38 [DavePorter]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080910/ap_on_hi_te/tec_techbit_web_browsers_2

15:36:47 [DavePorter]

That's the AP feed on Tim Berners-Lee

15:37:16 [DavePorter]

Google would be a great candidate sponsor for next year.

15:38:18 [DavePorter]

Jeff and Andreas in progress of contacting people in various companies and areas

15:38:41 [DavePorter]

Recommending Andreas to contact Wiley

15:39:09 [DavePorter]

Action: Andreas contact O'Reilly to gauge interest in sponsoring SVG Open 2009

15:39:09 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-4 - Contact O'Reilly to gauge interest in sponsoring SVG Open 2009 [on Andreas Neumann - due 2008-09-18].

15:39:16 [DavePorter]

Topic: SVG in IE

15:39:36 [DavePorter]

Lays out why we need a plug in ASAP, presents options

15:40:14 [DavePorter]

When Chrome was released, do they have a SVG logo, ended up having a discussion

15:40:30 [JeffSchiller]

Brad Neuberg

15:41:00 [DavePorter]

Got Jeff and Brad talking, his mission is to have some impact on the web in the next 6 months, for vector graphics on the web

15:41:10 [DavePorter]

Interest: some kind of shim to display in IE

15:41:19 [DavePorter]

FLEX SVG viewer that someone has open sourced

15:41:42 [DavePorter]

Brad has some intent to join our IG, at some point

15:42:24 [DavePorter]

Very much a work in progress from Brad's side, Jeff will keep us up to date.

15:43:01 [DavePorter]

Jeff says Google has experience doing some of these shims (e.g. FLEX)

15:44:01 [JeffSchiller]

Flex SVG Viewer: http://labs.zavoo.com/?cat=10

15:44:12 [DavePorter]

There is a plug in that runs Gecko in IE, Jonathan Watt

15:45:11 [aneumann]

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/wiki/SVG_Plugin_for_IE

15:45:44 [DavePorter]

Had a few concerns, but yet this is publicly distributable

15:45:53 [DavePorter]

Yes this is OK to redistribute

15:47:19 [DavePorter]

How well it's deployed, supported, known, trusted is a distinguishing characteristic of the options

15:48:49 [shepazu]

(btw, see http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/svgIgTelcon/ for telcon times)

15:49:49 [DavePorter]

Andreas: Relying on Flash is limiting, e.g. phones

15:50:26 [aneumann]

http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/webanalyse-technologien.html

15:51:08 [DavePorter]

Doug: we should be fine if we run over 60 minutes

15:51:22 [DavePorter]

This has been a great activity, thanks Andreas

15:51:29 [DavePorter]

Topic: Accessiblity

15:51:42 [DavePorter]

Title element within SVG spec

15:52:07 [DavePorter]

At the tools level, at the top of the chain, Rob and Jeff worked with Inkscape

15:52:19 [DavePorter]

Future version will support <Title> tag

15:52:34 [DavePorter]

Improve the vis and importance of metadata

15:52:53 [DavePorter]

6 of 6000 images, had doc level title elements

15:53:06 [DavePorter]

According to a search by Jonathan

15:53:40 [DavePorter]

Jeff did get commit access to the Inkscape repository, Jeff now has that avenue

15:54:16 [DavePorter]

Where all the browsers & plug ins are at

15:54:35 [DavePorter]

Doug: Opera and Batik both display tooltips on mousover

15:54:53 [DavePorter]

Batik shows both title and desc, while Opera shows only title

15:55:12 [DavePorter]

The other browsers will show them when xlink is present

15:57:25 [DavePorter]

Doug still working on the draft, but should be publishing in the next couple of days.

15:57:34 [DavePorter]

Doug working on clarity in the spec.

15:58:11 [DavePorter]

This could lead to generating bug reports so the browser / plug in vendors can conform.

15:58:33 [DavePorter]

Let Jeff know if you'd like to collaborate & help.

15:58:51 [DavePorter]

Topic: Community Building

15:59:02 [DavePorter]

Rob looking for ideas for designs.

15:59:06 [DavePorter]

Settle on a domain name.

15:59:33 [DavePorter]

Ruud sent out a good list of things to think about.

15:59:40 [shepazu]

scribe: Doug

15:59:43 [DavePorter]

Doug will take over scribing

15:59:47 [Zakim]

-Bruce_.a

15:59:51 [shepazu]

scribeNick: shepazu

15:59:53 [stelt]

Rob, read my thing on svg ig mail ?

16:00:02 [aneumann]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26646919/

16:01:24 [shepazu]

DS: will make a report on what was discussed at SVG Open later

16:01:26 [DavePorter]

'bye, everyone and thanks!

16:01:31 [Zakim]

- +1.253.924.aaaa

16:01:37 [shepazu]

JS: need domain name

16:01:43 [DavePorter]

DavePorter has left #svgig

16:02:00 [shepazu]

... but it could live on the domain name now, even in its current state

16:02:36 [JeffSchiller]

stelt: we have discussed it a little bit but we haven't had time to read your thoughts in detail

16:02:37 [shepazu]

RR: need content, need design

16:03:52 [JeffSchiller]

Action: Doug to contact Vodafone designers to see if they can work on the SVG Community site design

16:03:52 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-5 - Contact Vodafone designers to see if they can work on the SVG Community site design [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].

16:03:58 [shepazu]

DS: I think we should release early and not announce yet

16:04:31 [shepazu]

Action: shepazu to contact KDE and Inkscape people about site design

16:04:33 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-6 - Contact KDE and Inkscape people about site design [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].

16:04:53 [Donald_Doherty]

Got to go. Bye!

16:05:05 [JeffSchiller]

Action: Schiller to lay out tests and implementation matrix to describe state-of-the-art for title/desc

16:05:05 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-7 - Lay out tests and implementation matrix to describe state-of-the-art for title/desc [on Jeff Schiller - due 2008-09-18].

16:05:07 [Zakim]

-Don_Doherty

16:05:30 [shepazu]

RR: don't know exactly how to skin Drupal, but can learn if I have a template picture

16:08:43 [shepazu]

RR: shouldn't require SVG to use site (for theme)

16:10:23 [JeffSchiller]

JS: any thoughts on a permanent domain home?

16:10:42 [JeffSchiller]

JS: planetsvg.org = Shelley Powers, planetsvg.com = Doug

16:10:53 [JeffSchiller]

DS: I still would like to get svg.org

16:12:27 [JeffSchiller]

RR: what about svg.net or other top-level domains?

16:12:57 [stelt]

i prefer svg.org if we can get it

16:13:32 [stelt]

not only for the name, but also because of links out there

16:13:53 [stelt]

shepazu, you investigated the option of getting svg.org ?

16:14:05 [JeffSchiller]

Action: shepazu to contact Antoine Quint about svg.org

16:14:06 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-8 - Contact Antoine Quint about svg.org [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].

16:14:45 [JeffSchiller]

Action: Schiller to contact Sam Gladstone about svg.net

16:14:45 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-9 - Contact Sam Gladstone about svg.net [on Jeff Schiller - due 2008-09-18].

16:17:19 [JeffSchiller]

Action schepers find out if there are other international numbers for the telcon

16:17:19 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-10 - Find out if there are other international numbers for the telcon [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].

16:18:55 [Zakim]

-ed_work

16:18:57 [Zakim]

-Bruce_

16:18:58 [Zakim]

-JeffSchiller

16:18:58 [Zakim]

-Andreas_Neumann

16:19:08 [Zakim]

-Shepazu

16:19:09 [shepazu]

Zakim, bye

16:19:09 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #svgig

16:19:09 [Zakim]

GA_SVGIG()11:00AM has ended

16:19:10 [Zakim]

Attendees were +1.253.924.aaaa, Shepazu, Andreas_Neumann, Bruce_, JeffSchiller, Don_Doherty, ed_work

16:19:45 [shepazu]

RRSAgent, make minutes

16:19:45 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-svgig-minutes.html shepazu

16:20:26 [JeffSchiller]

aneumann: those are interesting stats, i wonder if there is something more recent (2008 data)

16:20:43 [JeffSchiller]

my biggest problem with a plugin is that it requires users to download and that's a big hurdle

16:20:54 [aneumann]

yes, exactly

16:21:10 [JeffSchiller]

so that's another reason why investigating using an already well-deployed plugin (Flash) might be feasible in the short term until Microsoft releases an IE supporting SVG

16:21:10 [aneumann]

I was looking for more websites on plugin statistics - but there is not too much out there

16:21:28 [aneumann]

Adobe claims that 99% of the browsers can display Flash, but that is clearly a lie

16:21:58 [JeffSchiller]

(I think Brad's idea is that by including a simple Google script it would automatically shove things into a Flash <object> or something - so for authors and users it could be nice

16:22:13 [JeffSchiller]

but again, this is all a work-in-progress and theoretical)

16:22:29 [JeffSchiller]

you should know that i'm not a fan of Flash myself :)

16:22:48 [aneumann]

it is certainly something worth looking into it, but I would prefer an open graphics plugin from Mozilla, Opera or Webkit - they could bundle SVG and Canvas support

16:23:21 [aneumann]

Jon Ferraiolo told me that chances are much better if we bundle SVG with other missing technologies not present in IE

16:23:46 [JeffSchiller]

yes, that is a good point

16:24:03 [JeffSchiller]

Vlad has already done work on 'native' support of canvas in IE - i'm sure you are aware of that

16:24:12 [JeffSchiller]

Mozilla Vlad

16:24:23 [aneumann]

yes, heard about it

16:24:24 [JeffSchiller]

http://blog.vlad1.com/2008/07/30/no-browser-left-behind/

16:24:46 [aneumann]

I also like the open ajax poll on the most important feature in future browsers:

16:24:47 [aneumann]

http://www.openajax.org/runtime/wiki/Summary_Report#The_Top_Requested_Features

16:25:03 [aneumann]

everyone except Microsoft voted for vector graphics support

16:25:19 [JeffSchiller]

yes, Brad told me that is the reason he is working on this

16:25:31 [JeffSchiller]

(so it definitely produced some good results to have that poll)

16:25:42 [JeffSchiller]

another quesiton for you andreas - what is the policy for keynote speakers at the SVG Open?

16:25:42 [aneumann]

yes

16:25:57 [aneumann]

gotta go now - need to go to the groceries ...

16:26:02 [JeffSchiller]

ok

16:26:03 [aneumann]

bye

16:26:06 [JeffSchiller]

thanks, bye

16:33:00 [JeffSchiller]

JeffSchiller has changed the topic to: Tracker: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/track/ || Wiki: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/wiki/Main_Page || MailingList: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-ig/

17:11:34 [stelt]

stelt has left #svgig