IRC log of svgig on 2008-09-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:59:08 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svgig
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logging to
14:59:10 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:59:12 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be SVGIG
14:59:13 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Interest Group Teleconference
14:59:13 [trackbot]
Date: 11 September 2008
14:59:13 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGIG()11:00AM already started
14:59:14 [Zakim]
+ +1.847.797.aabb
14:59:23 [shepazu]
Zakim, call shepazu
14:59:23 [Zakim]
ok, shepazu; the call is being made
14:59:23 [Zakim]
15:01:37 [Bruce_]
Bruce_ has joined #svgig
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+ +1.519.968.aacc
15:02:20 [DavePorter]
DavePorter has joined #svgig
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+ +1.720.855.aadd
15:02:29 [Zakim]
15:02:41 [aneumann]
aneumann has joined #svgig
15:03:52 [shepazu]
Zakim, +1.519.968.aacc is Bruce_
15:03:52 [Zakim]
+Bruce_; got it
15:04:10 [shepazu]
Zakim, +1.720.855.aadd DavePorter
15:04:10 [Zakim]
I don't understand '+1.720.855.aadd DavePorter', shepazu
15:05:22 [shepazu]
Zakim, +1.720.855.aadd is Bruce_
15:05:22 [Zakim]
+Bruce_; got it
15:05:28 [JeffSchiller]
Zakim, +1.847.797.aabb is JeffSchiller
15:05:28 [Zakim]
+JeffSchiller; got it
15:05:57 [shepazu]
Zakim, +1.519.968.aacc is Rob_Russell
15:05:57 [Zakim]
sorry, shepazu, I do not recognize a party named '+1.519.968.aacc'
15:06:40 [Donald_Doherty]
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15:07:18 [Zakim]
15:07:46 [shepazu]
scribe: Doug
15:09:14 [shepazu]
scribe: Dave Porter
15:09:23 [JeffSchiller]
15:09:25 [shepazu]
scribeNick: DavePorter
15:09:33 [DavePorter]
15:09:38 [shepazu]
15:09:58 [DavePorter]
Topic: Process
15:09:58 [shepazu]
Topic: Process
15:10:32 [DavePorter]
Jeff talking about process, new members Andreas,
15:10:55 [DavePorter]
Andreas: bio: Interactive Mapping GIS
15:11:04 [DavePorter]
First attended Open 2002 in Zurich
15:11:23 [DavePorter]
Telecon times didn't fit, so didn't participate immediately,
15:11:38 [shepazu]
15:11:53 [shepazu]
Topic: Tracker
15:12:12 [shepazu]
15:12:25 [DavePorter]
Each w3 group can set up their instance.
15:12:52 [DavePorter]
Only tracks stuff for us
15:13:00 [DavePorter]
Web interface plus functionality for telecons.
15:13:12 [DavePorter]
Doug is demonstrating how to set up an action.
15:13:15 [shepazu]
Action: shepazu to explain Tracker
15:13:15 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1 - Explain Tracker [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].
15:13:59 [DavePorter]
Tracker probably needs to be synched with IRC nicknames, but it already knows about many of us
15:14:04 [shepazu]
Action: schiller to get the group moving
15:14:04 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2 - Get the group moving [on Jeff Schiller - due 2008-09-18].
15:14:42 [DavePorter]
Unambiguous string for name, plus assignments like "Action:" are recognized
15:15:10 [shepazu]
Issue: resolve accessibility issues
15:15:10 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-1 - Resolve accessibility issues ; please complete additional details at .
15:15:29 [shepazu]
15:16:25 [DavePorter]
Person can go to web interface, look at "their" assigns.
15:17:02 [DavePorter]
Haven't used it, but we'll see how we can use it, encourage members to view it.
15:17:11 [DavePorter]
Can use it to generate agendas
15:17:31 [shepazu]
15:18:05 [DavePorter]
In another group, we just go thru the actions to status them, and perhaps our products can be tracked this way.
15:18:38 [DavePorter]
E.g. diffusion curves, 2.5D
15:19:00 [DavePorter]
Issues vs. Actions
15:19:07 [DavePorter]
Issues are ongoing and may result in several different actions
15:19:28 [DavePorter]
Actions are things to do, having a clear closure\
15:19:52 [DavePorter]
Topic: New members
15:20:03 [DavePorter]
Is this still the right time for our conference call.
15:20:23 [DavePorter]
Andreas recommends a somewhat later time
15:20:33 [DavePorter]
Others are OK with the status quo
15:20:58 [Zakim]
15:21:00 [DavePorter]
Doug will try to use a tool to discern a better time, has polling
15:21:07 [ed_work]
Zakim, ??P27 is me
15:21:07 [Zakim]
+ed_work; got it
15:21:16 [DavePorter]
Action: Doug to set up poll to set up telecon
15:21:17 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-3 - Set up poll to set up telecon [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].
15:21:43 [DavePorter]
Eric Dahlstrom joined
15:21:55 [DavePorter]
Eric will listen in, and multitask in the background
15:22:15 [DavePorter]
Which mobile version of Opera supports SVG?
15:22:24 [DavePorter]
9.5 does it as well
15:22:39 [DavePorter]
Previous Opera 8 had a plug-in based
15:23:16 [Donald_Doherty]
trackbot, status
15:23:28 [DavePorter]
Getting info out about what the real state of SVG is an important value of this IG.
15:23:55 [DavePorter]
E.g. editing the wiki about Opera, if someone has experience can do this, please do.
15:24:33 [DavePorter]
Doug: interesting to see how well and quickly the Iphone performs on SMIL, Javascript
15:24:56 [aneumann]
AN: currently the iPhone doesn't support SMIL
15:24:57 [ed_work]
opera mini 4 supports svg with limited interactivity (see
15:25:09 [shepazu]
15:25:15 [shepazu]
15:25:48 [DavePorter]
Mouseover on the buttons changegs the icon color
15:26:00 [DavePorter]
Topic: SVG Open, Doug to introduce
15:26:15 [DavePorter]
Not that well attended, but was very productive &positive on the whole
15:26:23 [DavePorter]
Around 120 attendees
15:26:43 [DavePorter]
SVG IG including John Cruze who drives Inkscape
15:26:56 [stelt]
15:26:58 [DavePorter]
about 20 went out for dinner, talked for 1.5 hours about SVG-IG
15:27:01 [aneumann]
= Jon Cruz
15:27:11 [DavePorter]
Much was about community site
15:27:32 [DavePorter]
Andreas: talking about 2009
15:27:41 [DavePorter]
Location will be CA USA
15:27:47 [JeffSchiller]
MountainView, CA
15:27:55 [DavePorter]
Not definite on location yet
15:28:22 [JeffSchiller]
Jon Ferraiolo
15:28:44 [JeffSchiller]
heading up OpenAjax Alliance, was author of earlier version of SVG spec, previous employee of Adobe
15:29:16 [DavePorter]
Mailing list is at yahoo group
15:29:29 [aneumann]
15:29:53 [DavePorter]
Send E-mail to Andreas if you'd like to be included int he SVG Open mailing list
15:30:20 [DavePorter]
Doug: suggest we should not be directly involved in facilitating the conference
15:30:35 [DavePorter]
A number of things are not appropriate for a public channel
15:31:55 [DavePorter]
Could we engage O'Reilly as a conference sponsor?
15:32:30 [DavePorter]
Doug thinks that could change the tone and attendees perhaps to a different focus
15:32:58 [DavePorter]
This would "send a message" that SVG is becoming more important
15:33:18 [DavePorter]
Tim Berners Lee, chastising Microsoft about non-support for SVG
15:33:27 [DavePorter]
It's on the wires, picked up by AP
15:34:11 [DavePorter]
Netscape, Mozilla, Opera, Nokia, SAP
15:34:23 [JeffSchiller]
no attendees from Microsoft, Google, Yahoo
15:34:34 [JeffSchiller]
(for 2008)
15:34:36 [DavePorter]
Visio team attended in 2002
15:34:52 [DavePorter]
Apple has never attended
15:35:50 [DavePorter]
Jonathan Watt, O'Callahan from Mozilla
15:36:38 [DavePorter]
15:36:47 [DavePorter]
That's the AP feed on Tim Berners-Lee
15:37:16 [DavePorter]
Google would be a great candidate sponsor for next year.
15:38:18 [DavePorter]
Jeff and Andreas in progress of contacting people in various companies and areas
15:38:41 [DavePorter]
Recommending Andreas to contact Wiley
15:39:09 [DavePorter]
Action: Andreas contact O'Reilly to gauge interest in sponsoring SVG Open 2009
15:39:09 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-4 - Contact O'Reilly to gauge interest in sponsoring SVG Open 2009 [on Andreas Neumann - due 2008-09-18].
15:39:16 [DavePorter]
Topic: SVG in IE
15:39:36 [DavePorter]
Lays out why we need a plug in ASAP, presents options
15:40:14 [DavePorter]
When Chrome was released, do they have a SVG logo, ended up having a discussion
15:40:30 [JeffSchiller]
Brad Neuberg
15:41:00 [DavePorter]
Got Jeff and Brad talking, his mission is to have some impact on the web in the next 6 months, for vector graphics on the web
15:41:10 [DavePorter]
Interest: some kind of shim to display in IE
15:41:19 [DavePorter]
FLEX SVG viewer that someone has open sourced
15:41:42 [DavePorter]
Brad has some intent to join our IG, at some point
15:42:24 [DavePorter]
Very much a work in progress from Brad's side, Jeff will keep us up to date.
15:43:01 [DavePorter]
Jeff says Google has experience doing some of these shims (e.g. FLEX)
15:44:01 [JeffSchiller]
Flex SVG Viewer:
15:44:12 [DavePorter]
There is a plug in that runs Gecko in IE, Jonathan Watt
15:45:11 [aneumann]
15:45:44 [DavePorter]
Had a few concerns, but yet this is publicly distributable
15:45:53 [DavePorter]
Yes this is OK to redistribute
15:47:19 [DavePorter]
How well it's deployed, supported, known, trusted is a distinguishing characteristic of the options
15:48:49 [shepazu]
(btw, see for telcon times)
15:49:49 [DavePorter]
Andreas: Relying on Flash is limiting, e.g. phones
15:50:26 [aneumann]
15:51:08 [DavePorter]
Doug: we should be fine if we run over 60 minutes
15:51:22 [DavePorter]
This has been a great activity, thanks Andreas
15:51:29 [DavePorter]
Topic: Accessiblity
15:51:42 [DavePorter]
Title element within SVG spec
15:52:07 [DavePorter]
At the tools level, at the top of the chain, Rob and Jeff worked with Inkscape
15:52:19 [DavePorter]
Future version will support <Title> tag
15:52:34 [DavePorter]
Improve the vis and importance of metadata
15:52:53 [DavePorter]
6 of 6000 images, had doc level title elements
15:53:06 [DavePorter]
According to a search by Jonathan
15:53:40 [DavePorter]
Jeff did get commit access to the Inkscape repository, Jeff now has that avenue
15:54:16 [DavePorter]
Where all the browsers & plug ins are at
15:54:35 [DavePorter]
Doug: Opera and Batik both display tooltips on mousover
15:54:53 [DavePorter]
Batik shows both title and desc, while Opera shows only title
15:55:12 [DavePorter]
The other browsers will show them when xlink is present
15:57:25 [DavePorter]
Doug still working on the draft, but should be publishing in the next couple of days.
15:57:34 [DavePorter]
Doug working on clarity in the spec.
15:58:11 [DavePorter]
This could lead to generating bug reports so the browser / plug in vendors can conform.
15:58:33 [DavePorter]
Let Jeff know if you'd like to collaborate & help.
15:58:51 [DavePorter]
Topic: Community Building
15:59:02 [DavePorter]
Rob looking for ideas for designs.
15:59:06 [DavePorter]
Settle on a domain name.
15:59:33 [DavePorter]
Ruud sent out a good list of things to think about.
15:59:40 [shepazu]
scribe: Doug
15:59:43 [DavePorter]
Doug will take over scribing
15:59:47 [Zakim]
15:59:51 [shepazu]
scribeNick: shepazu
15:59:53 [stelt]
Rob, read my thing on svg ig mail ?
16:00:02 [aneumann]
16:01:24 [shepazu]
DS: will make a report on what was discussed at SVG Open later
16:01:26 [DavePorter]
'bye, everyone and thanks!
16:01:31 [Zakim]
- +1.253.924.aaaa
16:01:37 [shepazu]
JS: need domain name
16:01:43 [DavePorter]
DavePorter has left #svgig
16:02:00 [shepazu]
... but it could live on the domain name now, even in its current state
16:02:36 [JeffSchiller]
stelt: we have discussed it a little bit but we haven't had time to read your thoughts in detail
16:02:37 [shepazu]
RR: need content, need design
16:03:52 [JeffSchiller]
Action: Doug to contact Vodafone designers to see if they can work on the SVG Community site design
16:03:52 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-5 - Contact Vodafone designers to see if they can work on the SVG Community site design [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].
16:03:58 [shepazu]
DS: I think we should release early and not announce yet
16:04:31 [shepazu]
Action: shepazu to contact KDE and Inkscape people about site design
16:04:33 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-6 - Contact KDE and Inkscape people about site design [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].
16:04:53 [Donald_Doherty]
Got to go. Bye!
16:05:05 [JeffSchiller]
Action: Schiller to lay out tests and implementation matrix to describe state-of-the-art for title/desc
16:05:05 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-7 - Lay out tests and implementation matrix to describe state-of-the-art for title/desc [on Jeff Schiller - due 2008-09-18].
16:05:07 [Zakim]
16:05:30 [shepazu]
RR: don't know exactly how to skin Drupal, but can learn if I have a template picture
16:08:43 [shepazu]
RR: shouldn't require SVG to use site (for theme)
16:10:23 [JeffSchiller]
JS: any thoughts on a permanent domain home?
16:10:42 [JeffSchiller]
JS: = Shelley Powers, = Doug
16:10:53 [JeffSchiller]
DS: I still would like to get
16:12:27 [JeffSchiller]
RR: what about or other top-level domains?
16:12:57 [stelt]
i prefer if we can get it
16:13:32 [stelt]
not only for the name, but also because of links out there
16:13:53 [stelt]
shepazu, you investigated the option of getting ?
16:14:05 [JeffSchiller]
Action: shepazu to contact Antoine Quint about
16:14:06 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-8 - Contact Antoine Quint about [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].
16:14:45 [JeffSchiller]
Action: Schiller to contact Sam Gladstone about
16:14:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-9 - Contact Sam Gladstone about [on Jeff Schiller - due 2008-09-18].
16:17:19 [JeffSchiller]
Action schepers find out if there are other international numbers for the telcon
16:17:19 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-10 - Find out if there are other international numbers for the telcon [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].
16:18:55 [Zakim]
16:18:57 [Zakim]
16:18:58 [Zakim]
16:18:58 [Zakim]
16:19:08 [Zakim]
16:19:09 [shepazu]
Zakim, bye
16:19:09 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #svgig
16:19:09 [Zakim]
GA_SVGIG()11:00AM has ended
16:19:10 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.253.924.aaaa, Shepazu, Andreas_Neumann, Bruce_, JeffSchiller, Don_Doherty, ed_work
16:19:45 [shepazu]
RRSAgent, make minutes
16:19:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate shepazu
16:20:26 [JeffSchiller]
aneumann: those are interesting stats, i wonder if there is something more recent (2008 data)
16:20:43 [JeffSchiller]
my biggest problem with a plugin is that it requires users to download and that's a big hurdle
16:20:54 [aneumann]
yes, exactly
16:21:10 [JeffSchiller]
so that's another reason why investigating using an already well-deployed plugin (Flash) might be feasible in the short term until Microsoft releases an IE supporting SVG
16:21:10 [aneumann]
I was looking for more websites on plugin statistics - but there is not too much out there
16:21:28 [aneumann]
Adobe claims that 99% of the browsers can display Flash, but that is clearly a lie
16:21:58 [JeffSchiller]
(I think Brad's idea is that by including a simple Google script it would automatically shove things into a Flash <object> or something - so for authors and users it could be nice
16:22:13 [JeffSchiller]
but again, this is all a work-in-progress and theoretical)
16:22:29 [JeffSchiller]
you should know that i'm not a fan of Flash myself :)
16:22:48 [aneumann]
it is certainly something worth looking into it, but I would prefer an open graphics plugin from Mozilla, Opera or Webkit - they could bundle SVG and Canvas support
16:23:21 [aneumann]
Jon Ferraiolo told me that chances are much better if we bundle SVG with other missing technologies not present in IE
16:23:46 [JeffSchiller]
yes, that is a good point
16:24:03 [JeffSchiller]
Vlad has already done work on 'native' support of canvas in IE - i'm sure you are aware of that
16:24:12 [JeffSchiller]
Mozilla Vlad
16:24:23 [aneumann]
yes, heard about it
16:24:24 [JeffSchiller]
16:24:46 [aneumann]
I also like the open ajax poll on the most important feature in future browsers:
16:24:47 [aneumann]
16:25:03 [aneumann]
everyone except Microsoft voted for vector graphics support
16:25:19 [JeffSchiller]
yes, Brad told me that is the reason he is working on this
16:25:31 [JeffSchiller]
(so it definitely produced some good results to have that poll)
16:25:42 [JeffSchiller]
another quesiton for you andreas - what is the policy for keynote speakers at the SVG Open?
16:25:42 [aneumann]
16:25:57 [aneumann]
gotta go now - need to go to the groceries ...
16:26:02 [JeffSchiller]
16:26:03 [aneumann]
16:26:06 [JeffSchiller]
thanks, bye
16:33:00 [JeffSchiller]
JeffSchiller has changed the topic to: Tracker: || Wiki: || MailingList:
17:11:34 [stelt]
stelt has left #svgig