14:59:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svgig
14:59:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-svgig-irc
14:59:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:59:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SVGIG
14:59:13 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Interest Group Teleconference
14:59:13 <trackbot> Date: 11 September 2008
14:59:13 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGIG()11:00AM already started
14:59:14 <Zakim> + +1.847.797.aabb
14:59:23 <shepazu> Zakim, call shepazu 
14:59:23 <Zakim> ok, shepazu; the call is being made
14:59:23 <Zakim> +Shepazu
15:01:37 <Bruce_> Bruce_ has joined #svgig
15:01:59 <Zakim> + +1.519.968.aacc
15:02:20 <DavePorter> DavePorter has joined #svgig
15:02:25 <Zakim> + +1.720.855.aadd
15:02:29 <Zakim> +Andreas_Neumann
15:02:41 <aneumann> aneumann has joined #svgig
15:03:52 <shepazu> Zakim, +1.519.968.aacc is Bruce_ 
15:03:52 <Zakim> +Bruce_; got it
15:04:10 <shepazu> Zakim, +1.720.855.aadd DavePorter 
15:04:10 <Zakim> I don't understand '+1.720.855.aadd DavePorter', shepazu
15:05:22 <shepazu> Zakim, +1.720.855.aadd is Bruce_ 
15:05:22 <Zakim> +Bruce_; got it
15:05:28 <JeffSchiller> Zakim, +1.847.797.aabb is JeffSchiller
15:05:28 <Zakim> +JeffSchiller; got it
15:05:57 <shepazu> Zakim, +1.519.968.aacc is Rob_Russell 
15:05:57 <Zakim> sorry, shepazu, I do not recognize a party named '+1.519.968.aacc'
15:06:40 <Donald_Doherty> Donald_Doherty has joined #svgig
15:07:18 <Zakim> +Don_Doherty
15:07:46 <shepazu> scribe: Doug
15:09:14 <shepazu> scribe: Dave Porter 
15:09:23 <JeffSchiller> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-ig/2008JulSep/0053.html
15:09:25 <shepazu> scribeNick: DavePorter 
15:09:33 <DavePorter> Agenda
15:09:38 <shepazu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-ig/2008JulSep/0053.html
15:09:58 <DavePorter> Topic: Process
15:09:58 <shepazu> Topic: Process
15:10:32 <DavePorter> Jeff talking about process, new members Andreas, 
15:10:55 <DavePorter> Andreas: bio: Interactive Mapping GIS
15:11:04 <DavePorter> First attended Open 2002 in Zurich
15:11:23 <DavePorter> Telecon times didn't fit, so didn't participate immediately,
15:11:38 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/track/
15:11:53 <shepazu> Topic: Tracker
15:12:12 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/
15:12:25 <DavePorter> Each w3 group can set up their instance. 
15:12:52 <DavePorter> Only tracks stuff for us
15:13:00 <DavePorter> Web interface plus functionality for telecons.
15:13:12 <DavePorter> Doug is demonstrating how to set up an action.
15:13:15 <shepazu> Action: shepazu to explain Tracker
15:13:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1 - Explain Tracker [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].
15:13:59 <DavePorter> Tracker probably needs to be synched with IRC nicknames, but it already knows about many of us
15:14:04 <shepazu> Action: schiller to get the group moving
15:14:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2 - Get the group moving [on Jeff Schiller - due 2008-09-18].
15:14:42 <DavePorter> Unambiguous string for name, plus assignments like "Action:" are recognized
15:15:10 <shepazu> Issue: resolve accessibility issues
15:15:10 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-1 - Resolve accessibility issues ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/track/issues/1/edit .
15:15:29 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
15:16:25 <DavePorter> Person can go to web interface, look at "their" assigns.
15:17:02 <DavePorter> Haven't used it, but we'll see how we can use it, encourage members to view it.
15:17:11 <DavePorter> Can use it to generate agendas
15:17:31 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/track/actions/1/edit
15:18:05 <DavePorter> In another group, we just go thru the actions to status them, and perhaps our products can be tracked this way.
15:18:38 <DavePorter> E.g. diffusion curves, 2.5D
15:19:00 <DavePorter> Issues vs. Actions
15:19:07 <DavePorter> Issues are ongoing and may result in several different actions
15:19:28 <DavePorter> Actions are things to do, having a clear closure\
15:19:52 <DavePorter> Topic: New members
15:20:03 <DavePorter> Is this still the right time for our conference call.
15:20:23 <DavePorter> Andreas recommends a somewhat later time
15:20:33 <DavePorter> Others are OK with the status quo
15:20:58 <Zakim> +??P27
15:21:00 <DavePorter> Doug will try to use a tool to discern a better time, has polling
15:21:07 <ed_work> Zakim, ??P27 is me
15:21:07 <Zakim> +ed_work; got it
15:21:16 <DavePorter> Action: Doug to set up poll to set up telecon
15:21:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Set up poll to set up telecon [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].
15:21:43 <DavePorter> Eric Dahlstrom joined
15:21:55 <DavePorter> Eric will listen in, and multitask in the background
15:22:15 <DavePorter> Which mobile version of Opera supports SVG?
15:22:24 <DavePorter> 9.5 does it as well
15:22:39 <DavePorter> Previous Opera 8 had a plug-in based
15:23:16 <Donald_Doherty> trackbot, status
15:23:28 <DavePorter> Getting info out about what the real state of SVG is an important value of this IG.
15:23:55 <DavePorter> E.g. editing the wiki about Opera, if someone has experience can do this, please do.
15:24:33 <DavePorter> Doug: interesting to see how well and quickly the Iphone performs on SMIL, Javascript
15:24:56 <aneumann> AN: currently the iPhone doesn't support SMIL
15:24:57 <ed_work> opera mini 4 supports svg with limited interactivity (see http://my.opera.com/operamini/blog/show.dml/2163812)
15:25:09 <shepazu> http://www.schepers.cc/svg/iphone/
15:25:15 <shepazu> http://www.schepers.cc/svg/iphone/iScript.svg
15:25:48 <DavePorter> Mouseover on the buttons changegs the icon color
15:26:00 <DavePorter> Topic: SVG Open, Doug to introduce
15:26:15 <DavePorter> Not that well attended, but was very productive &positive on the whole
15:26:23 <DavePorter> Around 120 attendees
15:26:43 <DavePorter> SVG IG including John Cruze who drives Inkscape
15:26:56 <stelt> Cruz
15:26:58 <DavePorter> about 20 went out for dinner, talked for 1.5 hours about SVG-IG
15:27:01 <aneumann> = Jon Cruz
15:27:11 <DavePorter> Much was about community site
15:27:32 <DavePorter> Andreas: talking about 2009
15:27:41 <DavePorter> Location will be CA USA
15:27:47 <JeffSchiller> MountainView, CA
15:27:55 <DavePorter> Not definite on location yet
15:28:22 <JeffSchiller> Jon Ferraiolo 
15:28:44 <JeffSchiller> heading up OpenAjax Alliance, was author of earlier version of SVG spec, previous employee of Adobe
15:29:16 <DavePorter> Mailing list is at yahoo group
15:29:29 <aneumann> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/svgopen2009/
15:29:53 <DavePorter> Send E-mail to Andreas if you'd like to be included int he SVG Open mailing list
15:30:20 <DavePorter> Doug: suggest we should not be directly involved in facilitating the conference
15:30:35 <DavePorter> A number of things are not appropriate for a public channel
15:31:55 <DavePorter> Could we engage O'Reilly as a conference sponsor?
15:32:30 <DavePorter> Doug thinks that could change the tone and attendees perhaps to a different focus
15:32:58 <DavePorter> This would "send a message" that SVG is becoming more important
15:33:18 <DavePorter> Tim Berners Lee, chastising Microsoft about non-support for SVG
15:33:27 <DavePorter> It's on the wires, picked up by AP
15:34:11 <DavePorter> Netscape, Mozilla, Opera, Nokia, SAP
15:34:23 <JeffSchiller> no attendees from Microsoft, Google, Yahoo
15:34:34 <JeffSchiller> (for 2008)
15:34:36 <DavePorter> Visio team attended in 2002
15:34:52 <DavePorter> Apple has never attended
15:35:50 <DavePorter> Jonathan Watt, O'Callahan from Mozilla
15:36:38 <DavePorter> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080910/ap_on_hi_te/tec_techbit_web_browsers_2
15:36:47 <DavePorter> That's the AP feed on Tim Berners-Lee
15:37:16 <DavePorter> Google would be a great candidate sponsor for next year.
15:38:18 <DavePorter> Jeff and Andreas in progress of contacting people in various companies and areas 
15:38:41 <DavePorter> Recommending Andreas to contact Wiley
15:39:09 <DavePorter> Action: Andreas contact O'Reilly to gauge interest in sponsoring SVG Open 2009
15:39:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-4 - Contact O'Reilly to gauge interest in sponsoring SVG Open 2009 [on Andreas Neumann - due 2008-09-18].
15:39:16 <DavePorter> Topic: SVG in IE
15:39:36 <DavePorter> Lays out why we need a plug in ASAP, presents options
15:40:14 <DavePorter> When Chrome was released, do they have a SVG logo, ended up having a discussion
15:40:30 <JeffSchiller> Brad Neuberg
15:41:00 <DavePorter> Got Jeff and Brad talking, his mission is to have some impact on the web in the next 6 months, for vector graphics on the web
15:41:10 <DavePorter> Interest: some kind of shim to display in IE
15:41:19 <DavePorter> FLEX SVG viewer that someone has open sourced
15:41:42 <DavePorter> Brad has some intent to join our IG, at some point
15:42:24 <DavePorter> Very much a work in progress from Brad's side, Jeff will keep us up to date.
15:43:01 <DavePorter> Jeff says Google has experience doing some of these shims (e.g. FLEX)
15:44:01 <JeffSchiller> Flex SVG Viewer: http://labs.zavoo.com/?cat=10
15:44:12 <DavePorter> There is a plug in that runs Gecko in IE, Jonathan Watt
15:45:11 <aneumann> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/wiki/SVG_Plugin_for_IE
15:45:44 <DavePorter> Had a few concerns, but yet this is publicly distributable
15:45:53 <DavePorter> Yes this is OK to redistribute
15:47:19 <DavePorter> How well it's deployed, supported, known, trusted is a distinguishing characteristic of the options
15:48:49 <shepazu> (btw, see http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/svgIgTelcon/ for telcon times)
15:49:49 <DavePorter> Andreas: Relying on Flash is limiting, e.g. phones
15:50:26 <aneumann> http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/webanalyse-technologien.html
15:51:08 <DavePorter> Doug: we should be fine if we run over 60 minutes
15:51:22 <DavePorter> This has been a great activity, thanks Andreas
15:51:29 <DavePorter> Topic: Accessiblity
15:51:42 <DavePorter> Title element within SVG spec
15:52:07 <DavePorter> At the tools level, at the top of the chain, Rob and Jeff worked with Inkscape
15:52:19 <DavePorter> Future version will support <Title> tag
15:52:34 <DavePorter> Improve the vis and importance of metadata
15:52:53 <DavePorter> 6 of 6000 images, had doc level title elements
15:53:06 <DavePorter> According to a search by Jonathan
15:53:40 <DavePorter> Jeff did get commit access to the Inkscape repository, Jeff now has that avenue
15:54:16 <DavePorter> Where all the browsers & plug ins are at
15:54:35 <DavePorter> Doug: Opera and Batik both display tooltips on mousover
15:54:53 <DavePorter> Batik shows both title and desc, while Opera shows only title
15:55:12 <DavePorter> The other browsers will show them when xlink is present
15:57:25 <DavePorter> Doug still working on the draft, but should be publishing in the next couple of days.  
15:57:34 <DavePorter> Doug working on clarity in the spec.
15:58:11 <DavePorter> This could lead to generating bug reports so the browser / plug in vendors can conform.
15:58:33 <DavePorter> Let Jeff know if you'd like to collaborate & help.
15:58:51 <DavePorter> Topic: Community Building
15:59:02 <DavePorter> Rob looking for ideas for designs.
15:59:06 <DavePorter> Settle on a domain name.
15:59:33 <DavePorter> Ruud sent out a good list of things to think about.
15:59:40 <shepazu> scribe: Doug 
15:59:43 <DavePorter> Doug will take over scribing
15:59:47 <Zakim> -Bruce_.a
15:59:51 <shepazu> scribeNick: shepazu 
15:59:53 <stelt> Rob, read my thing on svg ig mail ?
16:00:02 <aneumann> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26646919/
16:01:24 <shepazu> DS: will make a report on what was discussed at SVG Open later
16:01:26 <DavePorter> 'bye, everyone and thanks!
16:01:31 <Zakim> - +1.253.924.aaaa
16:01:37 <shepazu> JS: need domain name
16:01:43 <DavePorter> DavePorter has left #svgig
16:02:00 <shepazu> ... but it could live on the domain name now, even in its current state
16:02:36 <JeffSchiller> stelt: we have discussed it a little bit but we haven't had time to read your thoughts in detail
16:02:37 <shepazu> RR: need content, need design
16:03:52 <JeffSchiller> Action: Doug to contact Vodafone designers to see if they can work on the SVG Community site design
16:03:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - Contact Vodafone designers to see if they can work on the SVG Community site design [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].
16:03:58 <shepazu> DS: I think we should release early and not announce yet
16:04:31 <shepazu> Action: shepazu to contact KDE and Inkscape people about site design
16:04:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - Contact KDE and Inkscape people about site design [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].
16:04:53 <Donald_Doherty> Got to go. Bye!
16:05:05 <JeffSchiller> Action: Schiller to lay out tests and implementation matrix to describe state-of-the-art for title/desc
16:05:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-7 - Lay out tests and implementation matrix to describe state-of-the-art for title/desc [on Jeff Schiller - due 2008-09-18].
16:05:07 <Zakim> -Don_Doherty
16:05:30 <shepazu> RR: don't know exactly how to skin Drupal, but can learn if I have a template picture
16:08:43 <shepazu> RR: shouldn't require SVG to use site (for theme)
16:10:23 <JeffSchiller> JS: any thoughts on a permanent domain home?
16:10:42 <JeffSchiller> JS: planetsvg.org = Shelley Powers, planetsvg.com = Doug
16:10:53 <JeffSchiller> DS: I still would like to get svg.org
16:12:27 <JeffSchiller> RR: what about svg.net or other top-level domains?
16:12:57 <stelt> i prefer svg.org if we can get it
16:13:32 <stelt> not only for the name, but also because of links out there
16:13:53 <stelt> shepazu, you investigated the option of getting svg.org ?
16:14:05 <JeffSchiller> Action: shepazu to contact Antoine Quint about svg.org
16:14:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-8 - Contact Antoine Quint about svg.org [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].
16:14:45 <JeffSchiller> Action: Schiller to contact Sam Gladstone about svg.net
16:14:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-9 - Contact Sam Gladstone about svg.net [on Jeff Schiller - due 2008-09-18].
16:17:19 <JeffSchiller> Action schepers find out if there are other international numbers for the telcon 
16:17:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-10 - Find out if there are other international numbers for the telcon  [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-18].
16:18:55 <Zakim> -ed_work
16:18:57 <Zakim> -Bruce_
16:18:58 <Zakim> -JeffSchiller
16:18:58 <Zakim> -Andreas_Neumann
16:19:08 <Zakim> -Shepazu
16:19:09 <shepazu> Zakim, bye
16:19:09 <Zakim> Zakim has left #svgig
16:19:09 <Zakim> GA_SVGIG()11:00AM has ended
16:19:10 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.253.924.aaaa, Shepazu, Andreas_Neumann, Bruce_, JeffSchiller, Don_Doherty, ed_work
16:19:45 <shepazu> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:19:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-svgig-minutes.html shepazu
16:20:26 <JeffSchiller> aneumann: those are interesting stats, i wonder if there is something more recent (2008 data)
16:20:43 <JeffSchiller> my biggest problem with a plugin is that it requires users to download and that's a big hurdle
16:20:54 <aneumann> yes, exactly
16:21:10 <JeffSchiller> so that's another reason why investigating using an already well-deployed plugin (Flash) might be feasible in the short term until Microsoft releases an IE supporting SVG
16:21:10 <aneumann> I was looking for more websites on plugin statistics - but there is not too much out there
16:21:28 <aneumann> Adobe claims that 99% of the browsers can display Flash, but that is clearly a lie
16:21:58 <JeffSchiller> (I think Brad's idea is that by including a simple Google script it would automatically shove things into a Flash <object> or something - so for authors and users it could be nice
16:22:13 <JeffSchiller> but again, this is all a work-in-progress and theoretical)
16:22:29 <JeffSchiller> you should know that i'm not a fan of Flash myself :)
16:22:48 <aneumann> it is certainly something worth looking into it, but I would prefer an open graphics plugin from Mozilla, Opera or Webkit - they could bundle SVG and Canvas support
16:23:21 <aneumann> Jon Ferraiolo told me that chances are much better if we bundle SVG with other missing technologies not present in IE
16:23:46 <JeffSchiller> yes, that is a good point
16:24:03 <JeffSchiller> Vlad has already done work on 'native' support of canvas in IE - i'm sure you are aware of that
16:24:12 <JeffSchiller> Mozilla Vlad
16:24:23 <aneumann> yes, heard about it
16:24:24 <JeffSchiller> http://blog.vlad1.com/2008/07/30/no-browser-left-behind/
16:24:46 <aneumann> I also like the open ajax poll on the most important feature in future browsers:
16:24:47 <aneumann> http://www.openajax.org/runtime/wiki/Summary_Report#The_Top_Requested_Features
16:25:03 <aneumann> everyone except Microsoft voted for vector graphics support
16:25:19 <JeffSchiller> yes, Brad told me that is the reason he is working on this
16:25:31 <JeffSchiller> (so it definitely produced some good results to have that poll)
16:25:42 <JeffSchiller> another quesiton for you andreas - what is the policy for keynote speakers at the SVG Open?
16:25:42 <aneumann> yes
16:25:57 <aneumann> gotta go now - need to go to the groceries ...
16:26:02 <JeffSchiller> ok
16:26:03 <aneumann> bye
16:26:06 <JeffSchiller> thanks, bye
16:33:00 <JeffSchiller> JeffSchiller has changed the topic to: Tracker: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/track/ || Wiki: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/wiki/Main_Page || MailingList: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-ig/
17:11:34 <stelt> stelt has left #svgig