14:46:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:46:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc
14:46:25 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdfa
14:46:28 <msporny> zakim, this will be rdfa
14:46:44 <Zakim> ok, msporny; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
14:46:55 <msporny> wow, nice 30 second delay there, zakim.
14:47:06 <msporny> Scribe: Manu_Sporny
14:47:13 <msporny> ScribeNick: msporny
14:47:26 <msporny> Meeting: RDF in XHTML Task Force
14:47:34 <msporny> Chair: Ben_Adida
14:48:50 <msporny> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0030.html
14:49:06 <msporny> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-rdfa-minutes.html
14:49:35 <msporny> rrsagent, make log public
14:49:41 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:49:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
14:50:26 <msporny> Regrets: Mark_Birbeck, Michael_Hausenblas
14:50:49 <msporny> Present: Ben_Adida, Manu_Sporny, Steven_Pemberton
14:50:56 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:50:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
14:51:56 <ShaneM1> ShaneM1 has joined #rdfa
14:54:10 <msporny> Present+ Shane_McCarron
15:01:13 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
15:01:16 <Zakim> +??P3
15:01:20 <Zakim> +ShaneM
15:01:23 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
15:01:23 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:01:24 <Zakim> +Steven
15:01:26 <msporny> zakim, I am ??P3
15:01:26 <Zakim> +msporny; got it
15:02:53 <benadida> benadida has joined #rdfa
15:03:07 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
15:05:59 <msporny> prefix [ : [ resource] ]
15:06:33 <msporny> [ prefix [ : ] ] resource <--- this is what we have right now.
15:07:30 <msporny> prefix="hcard=http://microformats.org/vocab#hcard"
15:07:44 <msporny> <div typeof="hcard">...</div>
15:09:26 <msporny> benadida: Don't know if I like that.
15:09:36 <msporny> ShaneM1: Me neither.
15:09:51 <Steven> Wellm i think it is quite clever. I like it, it solves a problem in a neat way
15:09:58 <msporny> benadida: This is the hGRDDL approach that we talked about some time ago - we shouldn't stuff it into the prefix mapping.
15:10:19 <msporny> Steven: I think it's clever. We do something special already with a CURIE that doesn't have a value without a prefix.
15:14:37 <msporny> Manu: I think the approach could work if we merge it with the @profile approach.
15:14:47 <msporny> ShaneM1: It's inconsistent with the definition of CURIE in the spec.
15:15:52 <msporny> benadida: Mark's saying that we flip it around, but why isn't there a way to create a auto-prefix, like Pascal "with" statement.
15:16:11 <msporny> Steven: That is another solution.
15:16:23 <msporny> Steven: The thing with Mark's solution is that you don't need more syntax.
15:16:39 <msporny> Steven: There is a problem to be solved, and I thought that Mark's solution, while it's too late, is a neat one.
15:16:59 <msporny> benadida: Forget that it might be too late, it's still important, but it requires that we define a whole bunch of prefixes.
15:18:29 <ShaneM1> prefix extension proposal is at http://www.rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Vocabularies
15:20:49 <msporny> ShaneM1: This proposal stands whether you use @profile or @prefix.
15:20:52 <Steven> s/Wellm i/Well, I/
15:25:45 <msporny> benadida: You're building a DTD for HTML4?
15:25:48 <msporny> ShaneM1: That's done.
15:25:53 <msporny> ShaneM1: We need to separate the discussions.
15:26:06 <msporny> ShaneM1: How do we generate documents that support HTML4 is one discussion.
15:26:20 <msporny> ShaneM1: How do we support Microformats-like approaches, is the other.
15:26:30 <ShaneM1> http://www.rdfa.info/wiki/RDFainHTML4
15:26:45 <msporny> benadida: What do we do with HTML4? How do you validate? Do we want to make it more official?
15:27:16 <msporny> ShaneM1: We're producing a member submission, which is a profile of RDFa for HTML4.
15:27:23 <msporny> benadida: Creative Commons would be happy to support as a member.
15:29:47 <msporny> benadida: This is a great approach - we should move faster on it.
15:30:56 <msporny> benadida: We're doing this to allow people that want validation in HTML4 and want to use RDFa.
15:38:38 <msporny> Topic: Action Items
15:38:45 <msporny> ACTION: Ben ask SWD to approve publication of an updated RDFa Primer
15:38:50 <msporny> -- continues
15:38:53 <msporny> -- done
15:39:09 <msporny> ACTION: Jeremy review and consider expanding the description of TopBraid in the RDFa wiki
15:39:17 <msporny> -- continues
15:39:22 <msporny> ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up.
15:39:24 <msporny> -- continues
15:39:33 <msporny> ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece
15:39:35 <msporny> -- continues
15:39:39 <msporny> ACTION: Manu talk with Michael Smethurst at BBC about RDFa
15:39:45 <msporny> -- done
15:40:20 <msporny> ACTION: Manu to create test cases for testing relative URI resolution (href/CURIEs/etc).
15:40:22 <msporny> -- continues
15:40:28 <msporny> ACTION: Manu to upload test harness source code to W3C CVS.
15:40:32 <msporny> -- continues
15:40:42 <msporny> ACTION: Manu to work with Microformats community to address RDFa as unified markup for uFs.
15:42:24 <msporny> -- continues
15:43:03 <Steven> "Note. For versions of HTTP that define a Link header, user agents should handle these headers exactly as LINK elements in the document. HTTP 1.1 as defined by [RFC2616] does not include a Link header field (refer to section 19.6.3)."
15:43:09 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/links.html#h-12.4.1
15:43:13 <msporny> ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan.
15:43:16 <msporny> -- continues
15:43:42 <msporny> ACTION: Manu write a pending test case for literal property and no child nodes.
15:43:47 <msporny> -- continues
15:43:57 <msporny> ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot.
15:44:01 <msporny> -- continues
15:44:25 <msporny> ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning
15:44:28 <msporny> -- continues
15:44:34 <msporny> ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki 
15:44:36 <msporny> -- continues
15:44:40 <msporny> ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki
15:44:42 <msporny> -- continues
15:44:47 <msporny> ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa
15:44:48 <msporny> -- continues
15:44:55 <msporny> ACTION: Ralph to make http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt happen
15:44:57 <msporny> -- continues
15:45:05 <msporny> ACTION: Shane to update XHTML ns document to point to new XSLT URI
15:45:07 <msporny> -- continues
15:45:40 <msporny> Topic: TAG finding (NoahM)
15:45:54 <msporny> benadida: This is just to make sure we're in sync with TAG, great response to Noah, Steven.
15:46:06 <msporny> Steven: I don't quite grasp the issue he is having.
15:46:34 <msporny> benadida: It's critical - if TAG finding notes that we're not compliant, even if we are, it would be bad.
15:46:39 <msporny> benadida: I don't think there is an issue.
15:47:18 <msporny> benadida: Noah is asking, how do you follow your nose.
15:47:32 <msporny> benadida: We declare @version at the top of the document.
15:47:47 <msporny> benadida: I think we said that we're modifying the XHTML namespace?
15:47:57 <msporny> benadida: It's been agreed upon that it will be done.
15:48:13 <msporny> benadida: That's how we follow our nose, right? We go to the namespace document and we're done, right?
15:48:27 <msporny> Steven: Is this machine follow your nose, or human follow your nose?
15:48:31 <msporny> ShaneM1: Machine.
15:48:58 <msporny> Steven: The namespace document is pure english at the moment, it's not yet RDFa annotated, but it will be.
15:49:38 <msporny> ShaneM1: nope. The change to the XHTML document is a GRDDL-compliant @profile addition - that's the machine part of this.
15:49:52 <msporny> benadida: It is follow-your-nose in-so-far as GRDDL is follow-your-nose.
15:50:03 <msporny> ShaneM1: That's what TimBL told us to do.
15:50:35 <msporny> ShaneM1: It doesn't point to RDFa, it points to XSLT transformation.
15:50:58 <msporny> ShaneM1: Tim's declaration is that everything with an xmlns declaration is RDF.
15:51:24 <msporny> benadida: is there another path to the RDFa specification.
15:51:31 <msporny> benadida: There is @version.
15:51:37 <msporny> ShaneM1: There is a doctype declaration.
15:51:41 <msporny> benadida: What's the normative one?
15:51:54 <msporny> benadida: The canonical one is the XHTML namespace.
15:52:20 <msporny> benadida: I'll follow it up, but we want to make sure that they know it is follow-your-nose compliant.
15:52:52 <msporny> benadida: I believe that we use version="XHTML+RDFa1.0"
15:53:16 <msporny> ShaneM1: I think Noah's argument is more arcane. His reading of the RFC is that it doesn't permit the interpretation of documents of that media type as containing RDF.
15:53:39 <msporny> benadida: If that's the case, GRDDL is broken, because GRDDL is supposed to apply to XHTML.
15:53:50 <msporny> benadida: What we're doing with the namespace document is 100% GRDDL compliant.
15:54:12 <msporny> benadida: GRDDL is REC and we're GRDDL compliant.
15:54:20 <msporny> benadida: If GRDDL is okay, why is RDFa not okay?
15:55:06 <msporny> benadida: @profile says this is GRDDL, rel="transformation" states that is how you extract triples.
15:56:42 <msporny> ShaneM1: There is no normative Schema document for XHTML 1.0
15:56:49 <msporny> benadida: Then it's not the same thing as the namespace document.
15:57:12 <msporny> ShaneM1: The namespace document is the thing at the end of @xmlns 
15:57:44 <benadida> ACTION: Ben to figure out *how* to do the namespace-doc GRDDL thing
15:57:46 <ShaneM1> http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl/#ns-bind
16:01:36 <msporny> benadida: I will continue TAG discussion.
16:02:10 <msporny> ShaneM1: RFC alludes to modularization, but doesn't point to it.
16:02:16 <msporny> ShaneM1: Modularization doesn't point to RDFa.
16:02:25 <msporny> ShaneM1: I think that is Noah's argument.
16:02:32 <msporny> benadida: Yes, but GRDDL.
16:03:03 <msporny> ShaneM1: He hasn't incorporated GRDDL into his thinking.
16:04:17 <msporny> benadida: We'll talk about Danny's comment later.
16:04:22 <Zakim> -Steven
16:04:24 <Zakim> -ShaneM
16:04:25 <Steven> (Good call)
16:04:25 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
16:04:45 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:04:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
16:05:28 <msporny> Regrets+ Ralph_Swick
16:06:42 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:06:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
16:07:51 <Zakim> -msporny
16:07:52 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
16:07:53 <Zakim> Attendees were ShaneM, Steven, msporny, Ben_Adida
16:08:07 <msporny> zakim, bye
16:08:07 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdfa
16:08:12 <msporny> rrsagent, make log public
16:08:18 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:08:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
16:08:34 <msporny> rrsagent, bye
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> I see 18 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-actions.rdf :
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben ask SWD to approve publication of an updated RDFa Primer [1]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-38-45
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeremy review and consider expanding the description of TopBraid in the RDFa wiki [2]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-39-09
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [3]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-39-22
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [4]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-39-33
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu talk with Michael Smethurst at BBC about RDFa [5]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-39-39
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to create test cases for testing relative URI resolution (href/CURIEs/etc). [6]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-40-20
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to upload test harness source code to W3C CVS. [7]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-40-28
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to work with Microformats community to address RDFa as unified markup for uFs. [8]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-40-42
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [9]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-43-13
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu write a pending test case for literal property and no child nodes. [10]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-43-42
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [11]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-43-57
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [12]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-44-25
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki  [13]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-44-34
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [14]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-44-40
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [15]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-44-47
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph to make http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt happen [16]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-44-55
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane to update XHTML ns document to point to new XSLT URI [17]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-45-05
16:08:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to figure out *how* to do the namespace-doc GRDDL thing [18]
16:08:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-57-44