IRC log of rdfa on 2008-09-11
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:46:14 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
- 14:46:14 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc
- 14:46:25 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #rdfa
- 14:46:28 [msporny]
- zakim, this will be rdfa
- 14:46:44 [Zakim]
- ok, msporny; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
- 14:46:55 [msporny]
- wow, nice 30 second delay there, zakim.
- 14:47:06 [msporny]
- Scribe: Manu_Sporny
- 14:47:13 [msporny]
- ScribeNick: msporny
- 14:47:26 [msporny]
- Meeting: RDF in XHTML Task Force
- 14:47:34 [msporny]
- Chair: Ben_Adida
- 14:48:50 [msporny]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0030.html
- 14:49:06 [msporny]
- Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-rdfa-minutes.html
- 14:49:35 [msporny]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 14:49:41 [msporny]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:49:41 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
- 14:50:26 [msporny]
- Regrets: Mark_Birbeck, Michael_Hausenblas
- 14:50:49 [msporny]
- Present: Ben_Adida, Manu_Sporny, Steven_Pemberton
- 14:50:56 [msporny]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:50:56 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
- 14:51:56 [ShaneM1]
- ShaneM1 has joined #rdfa
- 14:54:10 [msporny]
- Present+ Shane_McCarron
- 15:01:13 [Zakim]
- SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
- 15:01:16 [Zakim]
- +??P3
- 15:01:20 [Zakim]
- +ShaneM
- 15:01:23 [Steven]
- zakim, dial steven-617
- 15:01:23 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; the call is being made
- 15:01:24 [Zakim]
- +Steven
- 15:01:26 [msporny]
- zakim, I am ??P3
- 15:01:26 [Zakim]
- +msporny; got it
- 15:02:53 [benadida]
- benadida has joined #rdfa
- 15:03:07 [Zakim]
- +Ben_Adida
- 15:05:59 [msporny]
- prefix [ : [ resource] ]
- 15:06:33 [msporny]
- [ prefix [ : ] ] resource <--- this is what we have right now.
- 15:07:30 [msporny]
- prefix="hcard=http://microformats.org/vocab#hcard"
- 15:07:44 [msporny]
- <div typeof="hcard">...</div>
- 15:09:26 [msporny]
- benadida: Don't know if I like that.
- 15:09:36 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: Me neither.
- 15:09:51 [Steven]
- Wellm i think it is quite clever. I like it, it solves a problem in a neat way
- 15:09:58 [msporny]
- benadida: This is the hGRDDL approach that we talked about some time ago - we shouldn't stuff it into the prefix mapping.
- 15:10:19 [msporny]
- Steven: I think it's clever. We do something special already with a CURIE that doesn't have a value without a prefix.
- 15:14:37 [msporny]
- Manu: I think the approach could work if we merge it with the @profile approach.
- 15:14:47 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: It's inconsistent with the definition of CURIE in the spec.
- 15:15:52 [msporny]
- benadida: Mark's saying that we flip it around, but why isn't there a way to create a auto-prefix, like Pascal "with" statement.
- 15:16:11 [msporny]
- Steven: That is another solution.
- 15:16:23 [msporny]
- Steven: The thing with Mark's solution is that you don't need more syntax.
- 15:16:39 [msporny]
- Steven: There is a problem to be solved, and I thought that Mark's solution, while it's too late, is a neat one.
- 15:16:59 [msporny]
- benadida: Forget that it might be too late, it's still important, but it requires that we define a whole bunch of prefixes.
- 15:18:29 [ShaneM1]
- prefix extension proposal is at http://www.rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Vocabularies
- 15:20:49 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: This proposal stands whether you use @profile or @prefix.
- 15:20:52 [Steven]
- s/Wellm i/Well, I/
- 15:25:45 [msporny]
- benadida: You're building a DTD for HTML4?
- 15:25:48 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: That's done.
- 15:25:53 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: We need to separate the discussions.
- 15:26:06 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: How do we generate documents that support HTML4 is one discussion.
- 15:26:20 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: How do we support Microformats-like approaches, is the other.
- 15:26:30 [ShaneM1]
- http://www.rdfa.info/wiki/RDFainHTML4
- 15:26:45 [msporny]
- benadida: What do we do with HTML4? How do you validate? Do we want to make it more official?
- 15:27:16 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: We're producing a member submission, which is a profile of RDFa for HTML4.
- 15:27:23 [msporny]
- benadida: Creative Commons would be happy to support as a member.
- 15:29:47 [msporny]
- benadida: This is a great approach - we should move faster on it.
- 15:30:56 [msporny]
- benadida: We're doing this to allow people that want validation in HTML4 and want to use RDFa.
- 15:38:38 [msporny]
- Topic: Action Items
- 15:38:45 [msporny]
- ACTION: Ben ask SWD to approve publication of an updated RDFa Primer
- 15:38:50 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:38:53 [msporny]
- -- done
- 15:39:09 [msporny]
- ACTION: Jeremy review and consider expanding the description of TopBraid in the RDFa wiki
- 15:39:17 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:39:22 [msporny]
- ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up.
- 15:39:24 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:39:33 [msporny]
- ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece
- 15:39:35 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:39:39 [msporny]
- ACTION: Manu talk with Michael Smethurst at BBC about RDFa
- 15:39:45 [msporny]
- -- done
- 15:40:20 [msporny]
- ACTION: Manu to create test cases for testing relative URI resolution (href/CURIEs/etc).
- 15:40:22 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:40:28 [msporny]
- ACTION: Manu to upload test harness source code to W3C CVS.
- 15:40:32 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:40:42 [msporny]
- ACTION: Manu to work with Microformats community to address RDFa as unified markup for uFs.
- 15:42:24 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:43:03 [Steven]
- "Note. For versions of HTTP that define a Link header, user agents should handle these headers exactly as LINK elements in the document. HTTP 1.1 as defined by [RFC2616] does not include a Link header field (refer to section 19.6.3)."
- 15:43:09 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/links.html#h-12.4.1
- 15:43:13 [msporny]
- ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan.
- 15:43:16 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:43:42 [msporny]
- ACTION: Manu write a pending test case for literal property and no child nodes.
- 15:43:47 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:43:57 [msporny]
- ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot.
- 15:44:01 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:44:25 [msporny]
- ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning
- 15:44:28 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:44:34 [msporny]
- ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki
- 15:44:36 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:44:40 [msporny]
- ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki
- 15:44:42 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:44:47 [msporny]
- ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa
- 15:44:48 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:44:55 [msporny]
- ACTION: Ralph to make http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt happen
- 15:44:57 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:45:05 [msporny]
- ACTION: Shane to update XHTML ns document to point to new XSLT URI
- 15:45:07 [msporny]
- -- continues
- 15:45:40 [msporny]
- Topic: TAG finding (NoahM)
- 15:45:54 [msporny]
- benadida: This is just to make sure we're in sync with TAG, great response to Noah, Steven.
- 15:46:06 [msporny]
- Steven: I don't quite grasp the issue he is having.
- 15:46:34 [msporny]
- benadida: It's critical - if TAG finding notes that we're not compliant, even if we are, it would be bad.
- 15:46:39 [msporny]
- benadida: I don't think there is an issue.
- 15:47:18 [msporny]
- benadida: Noah is asking, how do you follow your nose.
- 15:47:32 [msporny]
- benadida: We declare @version at the top of the document.
- 15:47:47 [msporny]
- benadida: I think we said that we're modifying the XHTML namespace?
- 15:47:57 [msporny]
- benadida: It's been agreed upon that it will be done.
- 15:48:13 [msporny]
- benadida: That's how we follow our nose, right? We go to the namespace document and we're done, right?
- 15:48:27 [msporny]
- Steven: Is this machine follow your nose, or human follow your nose?
- 15:48:31 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: Machine.
- 15:48:58 [msporny]
- Steven: The namespace document is pure english at the moment, it's not yet RDFa annotated, but it will be.
- 15:49:38 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: nope. The change to the XHTML document is a GRDDL-compliant @profile addition - that's the machine part of this.
- 15:49:52 [msporny]
- benadida: It is follow-your-nose in-so-far as GRDDL is follow-your-nose.
- 15:50:03 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: That's what TimBL told us to do.
- 15:50:35 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: It doesn't point to RDFa, it points to XSLT transformation.
- 15:50:58 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: Tim's declaration is that everything with an xmlns declaration is RDF.
- 15:51:24 [msporny]
- benadida: is there another path to the RDFa specification.
- 15:51:31 [msporny]
- benadida: There is @version.
- 15:51:37 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: There is a doctype declaration.
- 15:51:41 [msporny]
- benadida: What's the normative one?
- 15:51:54 [msporny]
- benadida: The canonical one is the XHTML namespace.
- 15:52:20 [msporny]
- benadida: I'll follow it up, but we want to make sure that they know it is follow-your-nose compliant.
- 15:52:52 [msporny]
- benadida: I believe that we use version="XHTML+RDFa1.0"
- 15:53:16 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: I think Noah's argument is more arcane. His reading of the RFC is that it doesn't permit the interpretation of documents of that media type as containing RDF.
- 15:53:39 [msporny]
- benadida: If that's the case, GRDDL is broken, because GRDDL is supposed to apply to XHTML.
- 15:53:50 [msporny]
- benadida: What we're doing with the namespace document is 100% GRDDL compliant.
- 15:54:12 [msporny]
- benadida: GRDDL is REC and we're GRDDL compliant.
- 15:54:20 [msporny]
- benadida: If GRDDL is okay, why is RDFa not okay?
- 15:55:06 [msporny]
- benadida: @profile says this is GRDDL, rel="transformation" states that is how you extract triples.
- 15:56:42 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: There is no normative Schema document for XHTML 1.0
- 15:56:49 [msporny]
- benadida: Then it's not the same thing as the namespace document.
- 15:57:12 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: The namespace document is the thing at the end of @xmlns
- 15:57:44 [benadida]
- ACTION: Ben to figure out *how* to do the namespace-doc GRDDL thing
- 15:57:46 [ShaneM1]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl/#ns-bind
- 16:01:36 [msporny]
- benadida: I will continue TAG discussion.
- 16:02:10 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: RFC alludes to modularization, but doesn't point to it.
- 16:02:16 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: Modularization doesn't point to RDFa.
- 16:02:25 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: I think that is Noah's argument.
- 16:02:32 [msporny]
- benadida: Yes, but GRDDL.
- 16:03:03 [msporny]
- ShaneM1: He hasn't incorporated GRDDL into his thinking.
- 16:04:17 [msporny]
- benadida: We'll talk about Danny's comment later.
- 16:04:22 [Zakim]
- -Steven
- 16:04:24 [Zakim]
- -ShaneM
- 16:04:25 [Steven]
- (Good call)
- 16:04:25 [Zakim]
- -Ben_Adida
- 16:04:45 [msporny]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:04:45 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
- 16:05:28 [msporny]
- Regrets+ Ralph_Swick
- 16:06:42 [msporny]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:06:42 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
- 16:07:51 [Zakim]
- -msporny
- 16:07:52 [Zakim]
- SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
- 16:07:53 [Zakim]
- Attendees were ShaneM, Steven, msporny, Ben_Adida
- 16:08:07 [msporny]
- zakim, bye
- 16:08:07 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #rdfa
- 16:08:12 [msporny]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 16:08:18 [msporny]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:08:18 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html msporny
- 16:08:34 [msporny]
- rrsagent, bye
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- I see 18 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-actions.rdf :
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Ben ask SWD to approve publication of an updated RDFa Primer [1]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-38-45
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Jeremy review and consider expanding the description of TopBraid in the RDFa wiki [2]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-39-09
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [3]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-39-22
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [4]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-39-33
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Manu talk with Michael Smethurst at BBC about RDFa [5]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-39-39
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Manu to create test cases for testing relative URI resolution (href/CURIEs/etc). [6]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-40-20
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Manu to upload test harness source code to W3C CVS. [7]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-40-28
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Manu to work with Microformats community to address RDFa as unified markup for uFs. [8]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-40-42
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [9]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-43-13
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Manu write a pending test case for literal property and no child nodes. [10]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-43-42
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [11]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-43-57
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [12]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-44-25
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [13]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-44-34
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [14]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-44-40
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [15]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-44-47
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Ralph to make http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt happen [16]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-44-55
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Shane to update XHTML ns document to point to new XSLT URI [17]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-45-05
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Ben to figure out *how* to do the namespace-doc GRDDL thing [18]
- 16:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-irc#T15-57-44