10:30:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
10:30:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-svg-irc
10:30:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
10:30:34 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
10:30:36 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
10:30:36 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM scheduled to start now
10:30:37 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
10:30:37 <trackbot> Date: 04 September 2008
10:30:58 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has now started
10:31:05 <Zakim> +??P0
10:31:15 <ed> Zakim, ??P0 is me
10:31:15 <Zakim> +ed; got it
10:32:33 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
10:33:00 <anthony> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
10:33:00 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
10:33:21 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
10:33:24 <nhagelro> nhagelro has joined #SVG
10:34:04 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0210.html
10:34:21 <Zakim> +Andrew_Sledd
10:34:47 <Zakim> +??P4
10:34:49 <heycam> Zakim, ??P4 is me
10:34:49 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
10:35:46 <anthony> scribe: anthony
10:35:54 <anthony> scribeNick: anthony
10:35:59 <anthony> chair: Erik
10:36:35 <anthony> Topic: Action Update
10:36:51 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/2
10:36:55 <anthony> Zakim, Andrew_Sledd is nhagelro
10:36:56 <Zakim> +nhagelro; got it
10:37:08 <anthony> ED: We can see all the open actions we have
10:37:14 <anthony> ... not all of these are vital to fix
10:37:23 <Zakim> +??P5
10:37:29 <aemmons> zakim, ??p5 is me
10:37:29 <Zakim> +aemmons; got it
10:37:32 <anthony> ACTION-2024
10:37:47 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2024
10:37:48 <heycam> ACTION-2024?
10:37:48 <trackbot> ACTION-2024 -- Doug Schepers to add wording to the specification that content with circular references is not conformant -- due 2008-05-27 -- OPEN
10:37:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2024
10:37:52 <anthony> ED: Action-2024 might be important
10:38:03 <anthony> DS: I think I may have already done that
10:38:09 <anthony> ... if not I know what needs to be done
10:38:14 <anthony> ... I'll be closing that this week
10:38:24 <anthony> CM: When I was working on the refs section this week
10:38:33 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #svg
10:38:34 <anthony> ... what was it about?
10:38:42 <anthony> DS: It was about content
10:38:50 <anthony> ... to say authors shouldn't do that
10:39:05 <anthony> ... it was specified for implementations
10:39:21 <anthony> ACTION-2063?
10:39:21 <trackbot> ACTION-2063 -- Cameron McCormack to fix the spec by aligning the script element behavior with HTMLs script element behavior -- due 2008-06-19 -- OPEN
10:39:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2063
10:39:37 <anthony> CM: I just came up with something this afternoon
10:39:47 <anthony> ... that is pretty much what we discussed
10:39:50 <Zakim> +??P6
10:40:00 <anthony> ... and what Maciej said
10:40:17 <anthony> ED: Do you have a link for the proposed text?
10:40:20 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0213.html
10:40:52 <anthony> ED: I haven't had time to read I through
10:40:56 <anthony> ... perhaps we should wait
10:41:03 <anthony> ... that's pending for now
10:41:26 <anthony> ACTION-2014?
10:41:26 <trackbot> ACTION-2014 -- Chris Lilley to review font-family selection e-mail, bring issues back to the group for discussion -- due 2008-05-20 -- OPEN
10:41:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2014
10:41:39 <anthony> CL: I've looked at that
10:41:46 <anthony> ... don't think there will be any changes to the spec
10:42:16 <anthony> ... I think it's just an explanation required
10:42:30 <anthony> ED: Is the schema something we need to do before we publish?
10:42:39 <anthony> DS: Something we can do while we are in last call
10:42:45 <ChrisL> Just explaining why we can't assume that there is a font with a glyph for 'a' on the system 9even though there almost always is)
10:43:03 <anthony> ACTION-2107?
10:43:03 <trackbot> ACTION-2107 -- Cameron McCormack to update the 1.2T spec with the reworded section on progressive rendering and tree construction -- due 2008-07-29 -- OPEN
10:43:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2107
10:43:17 <anthony> CM: Was about when nodes get inserted into the tree
10:43:21 <anthony> ... when parsing
10:43:29 <ChrisL> zakim, ??P6 is me
10:43:29 <Zakim> +ChrisL; got it
10:43:41 <anthony> ED: Well if you know what needs to be done
10:43:46 <anthony> ... then we can continue
10:43:54 <anthony> ACTION-2131?
10:43:54 <trackbot> ACTION-2131 -- Cameron McCormack to propose text regarding issue-274 (when animations can be interpolated) -- due 2008-08-21 -- OPEN
10:43:54 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2131
10:44:07 <anthony> CM: This one I thought we postponed
10:44:17 <anthony> ... I must no have changed the product
10:44:28 <anthony> ED: I'll change it now
10:44:41 <anthony> ACTION-2132?
10:44:41 <trackbot> ACTION-2132 -- Doug Schepers to propose text for UA indication in case a link is in scope -- due 2008-08-21 -- OPEN
10:44:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2132
10:44:52 <anthony> DS: Pretty minor, will be doing that today
10:45:03 <anthony> ... the same for 2133
10:45:08 <anthony> ACTION-2148?
10:45:08 <trackbot> ACTION-2148 -- Doug Schepers to take up ISSUE-2031 with the HTML WG -- due 2008-08-28 -- OPEN
10:45:08 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2148
10:45:15 <anthony> DS: I did send something to them
10:45:22 <anthony> ... but there hasn't been a reply
10:45:35 <anthony> ... I'll also ask Ian
10:45:51 <anthony> ACTION-2155?
10:45:52 <trackbot> ACTION-2155 -- Doug Schepers to add the keyboard events from DOM 3 Events to an SVGT12 appendix -- due 2008-08-29 -- OPEN
10:45:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2155
10:46:00 <anthony> ED: About adding keyboard events
10:46:05 <anthony> DS: I've started doing that
10:46:12 <anthony> ... I noticed that we already have the stuff in there
10:46:29 <anthony> ... but we also refer to DOM 3 Events
10:46:48 <anthony> ... We said we were sub-setting things from DOM 3 Events
10:46:57 <anthony> ... I may or may not keep the sub-setting part
10:47:01 <anthony> ... I'll have that done this week
10:47:58 <anthony> ACTION-2156?
10:47:59 <trackbot> ACTION-2156 -- Cameron McCormack to fix transition from DOM 3 Events to DOM 2 Events and uDOM, and to fix testsuite -- due 2008-08-29 -- OPEN
10:47:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2156
10:48:21 <anthony> CM: This one which is changing the rest of the spec to refer to DOM 2
10:48:27 <anthony> ... and remove DOM 3 refs
10:48:32 <anthony> ... I was waiting for Doug to be done
10:48:44 <anthony> CL: DOM 3 Events is not in the refs section
10:48:49 <anthony> ... and neither is DOM 2
10:49:00 <anthony> ... I was editing the references today
10:49:16 <anthony> ... Element traversal is a working progress
10:49:22 <anthony> ... what's happening with it?
10:49:25 <anthony> DS: In CR
10:49:30 <anthony> ... multiple implementations
10:49:41 <anthony> ... just need to create a test suite
10:50:10 <anthony> CL: That's the only one that says working progress in our normative refs
10:50:20 <anthony> ED: What's the status of the test suite?
10:50:25 <anthony> DS: There is none
10:50:34 <anthony> ... once I finish my SVG edit actions
10:50:36 <anthony> ... I'll make one
10:50:44 <anthony> ED: Ok
10:51:06 <anthony> ACTION-2159?
10:51:06 <trackbot> ACTION-2159 -- Erik Dahlström to do progress event name change to Tiny 1.2 -- due 2008-08-28 -- OPEN
10:51:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2159
10:51:12 <anthony> ED: I committed the event name changes
10:51:20 <anthony> ... for SVGKeyLoad and SVGProgress
10:51:53 <ed> s/SVGKeyLoad/SVGPreLoad
10:51:58 <anthony> ... I have to ask Charles to see if we can get a common name for SVGPostLoad
10:52:09 <anthony> ... so I guess that's the only thing left
10:52:23 <anthony> ... I'd prefer if the event names were in some form of alignment
10:52:35 <anthony> ... I think it would be useful to have it in the progress events spec as well
10:52:55 <anthony> ... I'll be asking Charles because he's the editor of the progress events spec
10:53:03 <anthony> ACTION-2164?
10:53:03 <trackbot> ACTION-2164 -- Doug Schepers to add 'role' attribute (and informative reference to XHTML Role attribute module) and to change the content model of the title and desc elements to be text -- due 2008-08-30 -- OPEN
10:53:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2164
10:53:15 <anthony> DS: I have added role and title
10:53:19 <anthony> ... I've done this
10:53:23 <anthony> ... but waiting for feedback
10:53:28 <anthony> ... on title
10:53:39 <anthony> ... from Dr Olaf and Jeff
10:53:49 <anthony> ACTION-2174?
10:53:50 <trackbot> ACTION-2174 -- Erik Dahlström to remove the 'this' keyword binding in the 'handler' element, and investigate if the execution of the handler content is actually like a Function object or if the contents are put in the global scope -- due 2008-08-31 -- OPEN
10:53:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2174
10:54:03 <anthony> ED: I had a look at what Opera is doing for this one
10:54:12 <anthony> ... and I'm wondering if this is a good action
10:54:44 <anthony> ... Opera treats the element handler sort of like script element
10:54:49 <anthony> ... but we don't bind this
10:54:53 <anthony> ... or the arguments
10:55:03 <anthony> ... it's not really like a function in Opera
10:55:33 <anthony> ... if you define a variable in the handler it won't be defined anywhere else
10:55:43 <anthony> CM: That's different to what Batik does
10:55:52 <anthony> ED: I can see the point to having it as it is
10:56:04 <anthony> ... although that's not what Opera is doing currently
10:56:10 <anthony> ... it could be changed
10:56:24 <anthony> ... but I don't know when I'll get time
10:56:36 <anthony> CM: Would be nice to see what other players do
10:56:38 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/script-handler-201-t.svg
10:56:52 <anthony> ED: So it's testing the keywords
10:56:58 <anthony> ... and scoping and so on
10:57:26 <anthony> CM: That test the arguments?
10:57:29 <anthony> ED: I think that was 202
10:58:29 <anthony> ... I would prefer if more implementers have more comments on this?
10:58:37 <anthony> NH: We fail the first
10:58:49 <anthony> ... it's not equal to document
10:59:05 <anthony> ... I'm not really sure I'll have to investigate this
10:59:11 <anthony> ED: I guess I can postpone this
10:59:19 <anthony> ... and wait for feedback on the public list
10:59:26 <anthony> NH: Both tests?
10:59:28 <anthony> ED: Yes both
10:59:48 <anthony> ACTION-2176?
10:59:48 <trackbot> ACTION-2176 -- Cameron McCormack to replace Global with Abstract View and add the reference -- due 2008-08-31 -- OPEN
10:59:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2176
11:00:09 <anthony> AG: You sent an email about this?
11:00:18 <anthony> CM: I did haven't had any replies about it
11:00:41 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/mid/20080903060135.GD21745@arc.mcc.id.au
11:00:53 <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0206.html
11:01:26 <anthony> DS: The last wording there
11:01:37 <anthony> ... that's pretty much derived from HTML5 right?
11:01:45 <anthony> CM: Yes same sort of thing
11:02:04 <anthony> ... I guess it's not really necessary for us to go into the Window object
11:02:20 <anthony> ED: What exactly is your suggestion?
11:02:40 <anthony> NH: Your last sentence in the email
11:02:50 <anthony> ... we can leave but shouldn't be SVGGlobal
11:02:58 <anthony> ... necessary for us to keep
11:03:04 <anthony> ... current content will not work
11:03:18 <anthony> CM: So they are saying gobal.document.parsexml
11:03:26 <anthony> NH: We do that
11:03:34 <anthony> CM: Could be left in without any problem
11:03:44 <anthony> ... if you leave that in then you don't need default view
11:03:53 <anthony> ... maybe we could subset DOM 2 Views a bit
11:04:19 <anthony> ED: I guess sub-setting would be cleaner
11:04:39 <anthony> NH: what would SVGGlobal inherit from?
11:04:48 <anthony> CM: I'd think I'd prefer it not to inherit
11:05:08 <anthony> ED: In that case is that enough information to go doing this action?
11:05:24 <anthony> CM: That was not what the original action was to do
11:05:49 <anthony> ... it was just to replace Global with Abstract View
11:06:02 <anthony> ED: Would referring to DOM 2 Views be ok
11:06:12 <anthony> ... subset that
11:06:22 <anthony> CM: I has no impact on what properties are around
11:06:28 <anthony> ... just the structure
11:06:39 <anthony> NH: I think I'm fine with that
11:06:54 <anthony> ... can you send an email with what you're going to introduce?
11:07:04 <anthony> DS: Might be easier to make the change and send the link
11:07:13 <anthony> CL: As long as it doesn't effect content
11:08:06 <heycam> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0206.html
11:08:25 <anthony> NH: You're going to remove parent?
11:08:30 <anthony> CM: No moving it
11:08:40 <anthony> DS: Will this still satisfy the browser vendors?
11:08:55 <anthony> CM: Don't know, but it will satisfy them more than before
11:09:11 <anthony> ... I could ask see what they think
11:09:59 <anthony> RESOLUTION: Do what it says in the email sent Cameron regarding removal of SVGGlobal::parent, except don't add Default View and leave the Global attribute
11:10:18 <anthony> CM: I can just continue my current action
11:10:34 <anthony> ACTION-2179?
11:10:34 <trackbot> ACTION-2179 -- Cameron McCormack to move timer from Global to the SVG Module and remove the Global Module -- due 2008-08-31 -- OPEN
11:10:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2179
11:10:43 <anthony> CM: I did this one
11:10:54 <anthony> ... but I left it open because of the question about SVTimer
11:11:02 <anthony> s/SVTimer/SVGTimer/
11:11:22 <anthony> ED: If we are keeping it I'd prefer it to be moved to SVGTimer
11:11:48 <anthony> CM: The name change the content
11:12:07 <anthony> s/change/ does not change/
11:12:17 <anthony> AG: Is that ok?
11:12:23 <anthony> NH: I'm happy with that
11:12:39 <anthony> CM: What's the name of the event?
11:12:52 <anthony> ... SVGTimer is the event type
11:13:15 <anthony> ED: That's the last of the open actions set for Tiny
11:13:28 <anthony> ... I guess we should try to decide a deadline date for edits
11:13:47 <anthony> ... Doug you'll probably know the publication schedule
11:13:54 <anthony> ... is next Friday ok?
11:23:49 <anthony> DS: Shooting for publication date of next Friday
11:24:24 <anthony> ... needs to be done well before then, 2 or 3 days before then
11:24:40 <anthony> ... everyone should have action items done before the 11th
11:25:32 <ChrisL> publication moratorium for tpac
11:25:34 <ChrisL>   13 October, 12pm ET: Deadline for publication requests
11:25:34 <ChrisL>                        before moratorium
11:25:34 <ChrisL>   16 October:      Last publications before moratorium
11:25:34 <ChrisL>   17 - 26 October: No publications
11:25:34 <ChrisL>   27 October:      Publications resume
11:28:31 <anthony> Topic: Test Suite
11:29:06 <anthony> CL: I sent an email before about XMLRI
11:29:16 <anthony> ... I've finished that now
11:29:35 <anthony> DS: Fantastic
11:29:46 <anthony> ED: We need to make a publication of the test suite
11:30:04 <anthony> ... need to make sure the reference images are correct
11:30:12 <anthony> ... we didn't make any in the last f2f
11:30:17 <anthony> ... still a bit of work there
11:30:43 <anthony> AE: Do we still rely on Batik to make some of the automatic reference images?
11:30:46 <anthony> ED: I think so
11:30:52 <anthony> ... but you can drop any other binary in there
11:31:02 <anthony> ... as long as the syntax is correct
11:31:19 <anthony> ... we could use Inkscape but it wont work on any scripting ones
11:31:30 <anthony> AE: Do we have an idea of how Batik goes on some of the new tests?
11:31:36 <anthony> CM: Not very well
11:31:57 <anthony> AE: We'll probably need some patch images made
11:32:35 <anthony> ... it looks like Anthony and I to do the test suite stuff
11:32:46 <heycam> trackbot, close ACTION-2179
11:32:46 <trackbot> ACTION-2179 Move timer from Global to the SVG Module and remove the Global Module closed
11:33:41 <anthony> AG: I can generate a new version of the test suite and create the images
11:33:59 <anthony> ED: So this has to be done when?
11:34:04 <anthony> ... same time as the spec?
11:34:18 <anthony> DS: I'd prefer it be done before?
11:36:26 <anthony> ED: I think we do have a bunch of actions left on the test suite
11:36:35 <anthony> ... but we still need to publish on a regular basis
11:36:51 <anthony> ... even if we still haven't finished all the actions we should still go ahead
11:37:09 <anthony> AE: I think turning the crank on this
11:41:24 <anthony> DS: Monday or Tuesday we should have the test suite ready
11:42:12 <ed> Topic: Removing Document::Implementation http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0204.html
11:42:41 <anthony> ED: If we have some empty interfaces I don't see any reason to keep them around
11:42:55 <anthony> ... unless I hear something about keeping them around
11:43:04 <anthony> ... Cameron you can go ahead and remove them
11:43:35 <anthony> CM: It's a pretty useless thing to have if there is nothing on the interfaces
11:44:05 <anthony> AG: I'm ok with it
11:44:19 <anthony> NH: I'm fine with it
11:44:24 <anthony> DS: I'm fine with it
11:45:19 <anthony> ACTION: Cameron to remove Document:Implementation from the interface and the DOM implementation interface
11:45:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2182 - Remove Document:Implementation from the interface and the DOM implementation interface [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-09-11].
11:45:45 <ed> Topic: Pragmas and extended attributes at the top of the uDOM IDL
11:45:50 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0207.html
11:46:30 <anthony> CM: I could find nothing on the web about these particular names
11:46:39 <anthony> ... who worked on most of the uDOM at the start?
11:47:01 <anthony> ... I can only assume there are some IDL compiler specific things
11:47:33 <anthony> ED: If there is no definition of what it does then I don't see a reason to keep it around
11:48:07 <anthony> AG: So you'll just remove it from the IDL?
11:48:10 <anthony> CM: Ok
11:49:30 <anthony> ACTION: Cameron to Remove the square-bracketted extended attributes at the top of the uDOM IDL
11:49:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2183 - Remove the square-bracketted extended attributes at the top of the uDOM IDL [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-09-11].
11:50:32 <anthony> ED: I didn't notice anyone with an action to do the change log
11:50:41 <anthony> ... and we cannot do it before all the changes are done
11:50:49 <anthony> CM: Someone can start
11:51:24 <anthony> ... we were thinking at the F2F to add links of the diffs from the previous publication
11:51:32 <anthony> ED: I guess that's fine for catching everything
11:51:46 <anthony> ... we also discussed getting a high level description of the change
11:51:55 <anthony> ... I did write a script for getting the diff version
11:52:06 <anthony> ... so it will fetch of all the diff HTML pages
11:53:09 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/tools/htmldiff/
11:53:13 <anthony> CM: It would be nice if someone who has time to go through and do that
11:53:24 <anthony> ED: I've committed a small tool for getting all the difs
11:53:31 <anthony> s/difs/diffs/
11:53:45 <anthony> DS: Let me do my editing actions this week
11:54:24 <anthony> ACTION: Doug to Make sure have the HTML diff marked pages from the spec in the changes chapter
11:54:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2184 - Make sure have the HTML diff marked pages from the spec in the changes chapter [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-11].
11:55:13 <Zakim> -aemmons
11:55:14 <Zakim> -ChrisL
11:55:15 <Zakim> -nhagelro
11:55:17 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
11:55:19 <Zakim> -ed
11:55:21 <Zakim> -heycam
11:55:22 <Zakim> -anthony
11:55:23 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has ended
11:55:24 <Zakim> Attendees were ed, anthony, Doug_Schepers, heycam, nhagelro, aemmons, ChrisL
11:55:35 <anthony> rrsagent, make minutes
11:55:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-svg-minutes.html anthony
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